Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Cruyff Turn]

Just now, jumpship said:

Bottled it... so it was actually just a message to his own party to toe the line. 

Agree, he was going to call it, bottled it and had to go out and say something. 🤦‍♂️

[Dirty Deeds]

Interesting his preference is to speak directly to camera.  This allows him to present his case without press conference and parliament scrutiny.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Dirty Deeds

[Don Dan]

3 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Agree, he was going to call it, bottled it and had to go out and say something. 🤦‍♂️

 

Im always amazed how you guys come up with these claims when you’re nowhere near any of these goings on. You have no idea one way or another if he was going to call an election. If you have concrete evidence let’s see it. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Dannie Boy

[Cade]

Various journos saying they've been told that if Parliament defeats the govt tomorrow, Boris will call an election for 14th October.

[Victorian]

He's basically saying that he'll call an election if parliament votes through any mandatory postponement,  etc.     Tory 'rebels' have already been told that they have no future in the party if they side against the government.     There will be an instant election and they'll be de-selected.    

 

It's a highly dangerous time for parliament.    The Tories will cull all dissent and will form a pact with the Brexit Party.     There's no chance of a counter-pact on the other side so the remain / softer Brexit vote will be split.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Victorian

[Victorian]

He still needs to achieve a 2/3rd parliament majority to endorse the dissolution of parliament for an election so Labour (plus others) may need to consider completely changing direction to avoid an election until something watertight can be enforced on the government.

[Boris]

I wonder how Mundell and various other Scottish Tory mps will vote?

 

The Scottish party is separate isn’t it?

[Cruyff Turn]

15 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Im always amazed how you guys come up with these claims when you’re nowhere near any of these goings on. You have no idea one way or another if he was going to call an election. If you have concrete evidence let’s see it. 

Journalists believed he was going to call a GE, many of them get leaked stuff all the time. 

 

Strange to call a press conference and then not say anything that no one didn’t already know. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

A GE is the right thing to do.  Each party would be explicit in their manifesto about Brexit...Deal , No Deal etc then whomever wins carries out that mandate . Its that simple..However then they would have the same carry on trying to get it through Parliament like Terry did.  ?  Like others I just wonder what Labours policy would be ? They had the Tories by the balls a few months ago but BJ has played some blinders lately. I do hope that any GE ensures he has the shortest Premiership in history.  

[Don Dan]

6 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Journalists believed he was going to call a GE, many of them get leaked stuff all the time. 

 

Strange to call a press conference and then not say anything that no one didn’t already know. 

 

Imo this press conference was for the public so they know exactly what Boris is wanting. Those MPs planning to vote against him have had a public warning not to side with Corbyn. 

I don’t want Brexit by the way but to take No Deal of the table is absolutely stupid. No sensible negotiator would enter into negotiations without having a “death clause” or a “walk away” option. The other side need to know we won’t just accept what they offer because if they do they hold all the cards. 

[Cade]

Parliamentary arithmetic will be all kinds of fun.

Tories will undoubtedly lose a few seats in Scotland.

Wait and see how many Brexit Party lunatics get put forward across the nation.

LibDems possible resurgence, taking votes off of both Tory and Labour.

Can't see anybody coming out of it with a majority.

[The Real Maroonblood]

36 minutes ago, jumpship said:

Bottled it... so it was actually just a message to his own party to toe the line. 

Correct.

[Cade]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Imo this press conference was for the public so they know exactly what Boris is wanting. Those MPs planning to vote against him have had a public warning not to side with Corbyn. 

I don’t want Brexit by the way but to take No Deal of the table is absolutely stupid. No sensible negotiator would enter into negotiations without having a “death clause” or a “walk away” option. The other side need to know we won’t just accept what they offer because if they do they hold all the cards. 

 

WHAT NEGOTIATIONS?

there are none on the table FFS

[Don Dan]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

A GE is the right thing to do.  Each party would be explicit in their manifesto about Brexit...Deal , No Deal etc then whomever wins carries out that mandate . Its that simple..However then they would have the same carry on trying to get it through Parliament like Terry did.  ?  Like others I just wonder what Labours policy would be ? They had the Tories by the balls a few months ago but BJ has played some blinders lately. I do hope that any GE ensures he has the shortest Premiership in history.  

 

Another referendum is a must in this instance. We really need to know if the people have changed there minds. It’s not ignoring democracy in this instance it’s verifying that this is the democratic will of the people. No matter what the outcome of the referendum, stay or leave, you then go for a GE. 

[Don Dan]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

 

WHAT NEGOTIATIONS?

there are none on the table FFS

 

You obviously missed what I was saying in your anger.

[Pans Jambo]

5 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

We prescribe generics, so would not be affected.

Most of our meds are non US sourced anyway much cheaper and that will not cease.

Our US imports are already minimal due to the price issue- and unless the US slashes its prices it wont get access- its the price that is the blocker to their access and that would remain

I accept every word of this BUT...what will happen when the USA get their claws into the NHS as a result of a negotiated trade deal (seeing as the NHS is “on the table”)?

 

Will we be allowed to source cheap medicines when we have supply agreements in place with Trumps pals?

 

What then?

[Victorian]

Johnson is trying to snake a new mandate on the back of Brexit Party votes.    The Brexit Party menaced him by threatening direct opposition in every seat at any upcoming election if he didn't proceed to a no-deal exit.     The implication is that if he delivers a no-deal then they'll stand aside.     The vote share of those not voting for the Tories will be split,    therefore maximising the Tories' chances of retaining power and getting a parliamentary majority.    

 

This election is not an election.     It's a referendum tribute act.     Up for grabs are all the usual general election goodies.

[The Mighty Thor]

23 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

WHAT NEGOTIATIONS?

there are none on the table FFS

A point often overlooked by the deal or no dealers.

There is no ongoing or pending negotiations. Baw jaws was packed on his way to come back with the unicorns inside 30 days. Not going to happen. 

 

[Pans Jambo]

19 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Johnson is trying to snake a new mandate on the back of Brexit Party votes.    The Brexit Party menaced him by threatening direct opposition in every seat at any upcoming election if he didn't proceed to a no-deal exit.     The implication is that if he delivers a no-deal then they'll stand aside.     The vote share of those not voting for the Tories will be split,    therefore maximising the Tories' chances of retaining power and getting a parliamentary majority.    

 

This election is not an election.     It's a referendum tribute act.     Up for grabs are all the usual general election goodies.

The sad thing about that is if you live in England and you perhaps voted for Brexit but have now changed your mind. Who do you vote for? Corbyn? I can almost sympathise with folk who look at that spineless arsehole and decide to vote for the Brexit party!

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

A point often overlooked by the deal or no dealers.

There is no ongoing or pending negotiations. Baw jaws was packed on his way to come back with the unicorns inside 30 days. Not going to happen. 

 

Baw Jaws doesnt want it to happen either. 

[Nucky Thompson]

The Rebel Alliance  What a fecking laughing stock British politics has become

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

The sad thing about that is if you live in England and you perhaps voted for Brexit but have now changed your mind. Who do you vote for? Corbyn? I can almost sympathise with folk who look at that spineless arsehole and decide to vote for the Brexit party!

 

They wont have to because the Brexit Party wont oppose the Tories if Johnson sticks to the no-deal path,   which he certainly will.

 

There's no negotiations.    No will for a deal.     Only rhetoric and dishonesty.     Johnson is proceeding to no-deal and doing so under the double lock of the Brexit Party pushing him through the door to make sure.

[Pans Jambo]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

They wont have to because the Brexit Party wont oppose the Tories if Johnson sticks to the no-deal path,   which he certainly will.

 

There's no negotiations.    No will for a deal.     Only rhetoric and dishonesty.     Johnson is proceeding to no-deal and doing so under the double lock of the Brexit Party pushing him through the door to make sure.

Aye. 

Its a shit show. 

[Victorian]

Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Aye. 

Its a shit show. 

 

Tony Blair is right to warn Corbyn about the danger of an election.     Parliament should avoid an election until something can be put in place to guarantee the avoidance of no deal.    

 

An election now will install a hard Brexit / hard post-Brexit,   fanatical right wing Tory majority government... by accident.

[Brighton Jambo]

23 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

They wont have to because the Brexit Party wont oppose the Tories if Johnson sticks to the no-deal path,   which he certainly will.

 

There's no negotiations.    No will for a deal.     Only rhetoric and dishonesty.     Johnson is proceeding to no-deal and doing so under the double lock of the Brexit Party pushing him through the door to make sure.

There was a deal on the table and Boris voted for it but Corbyn didn’t and neither did the SNP or Lib Dem’s. Had they we wouldn’t be in this mess would we!  

 

Blame on all sides 

 

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

If there is a general election that could be the end of Labour as a major political party.  Given the GE will be based on Brexit lines anyone who wants to leave will either vote Tory or Brexit party.  Anyone who wants to remain will vote Lib Dem.  No matter what Labour campaign on I don't think people will trust their position on Brexit, that's assuming they even have a coherent plan which they haven't managed so far.  The Lib Dems have been clear and consistent in their views.  SNP will clean up in Scotland again depriving Labour of any seats.  Add the Corbyn  factor into the mix and this could be a car crash of epic proportions.  At the last general lection he deflected the Brexit scrutiny by talking about domestic issues, he wont get away with that this time.

 

Blair can see what's coming but of course they will ignore him!

 

Blair certainly would rather see anything but a Corbyn government.

 

It's more open than you say.

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

There was a deal on the table and Boris voted for it but Corbyn didn’t and neither did the SNP or Lib Dem’s. Had they we wouldn’t be in this mess would we!  

 

Blame on all sides 

 

 

This is correct in a factual sense.    Of course.     But parliament voted down the WA on the basis of it being a bad deal and on the prospectus of a better deal being possible to achieve.      It was Tory party protectionism that prevented progress towards a better deal and enabled the fanatics to take control.

[Brighton Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

This is correct in a factual sense.    Of course.     But parliament voted down the WA on the basis of it being a bad deal and on the prospectus of a better deal being possible to achieve.      It was Tory party protectionism that prevented progress towards a better deal and enabled the fanatics to take control.

I agree that a better deal was available before this version of the WA, I don’t believe the EU will ever renegotiate this existing version no matter who the government is.  They would look too weak to future nations thinking of trying the same thing.  

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I agree that a better deal was available before this version of the WA, I don’t believe the EU will ever renegotiate this existing version no matter who the government is.  They would look too weak to future nations thinking of trying the same thing.  

 

A significantly large enough section of the electorate has become hypnotised into the belief that a no-deal exit is some kind of advantageous or productive outcome.      A sort of 'mission creep' of public opinion.      It's been talked about and portrayed so often and by so many people (Tories) that it became normalised.      People like Raab and Leadsom with their fairy stories about 'managed no deals'.       

 

We have been told,   endlessly,   that no deal had to be kept on the table as a negotiating position.      Completely ignoring the concept that the ability to walk away from a negotiation is all fine and well.... if you're walking away to a status quo position.     But that was never possible.    The status quo is full EU membership and participation in all EU treaties.      The walking away position is to avoidable economic damage,  restriction and barriers to trade,   restrictions and delays to vital imports,  etc etc.      

 

A bogus prospectus.

[Brighton Jambo]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

A significantly large enough section of the electorate has become hypnotised into the belief that a no-deal exit is some kind of advantageous or productive outcome.      A sort of 'mission creep' of public opinion.      It's been talked about and portrayed so often and by so many people (Tories) that it became normalised.      People like Raab and Leadsom with their fairy stories about 'managed no deals'.       

 

We have been told,   endlessly,   that no deal had to be kept on the table as a negotiating position.      Completely ignoring the concept that the ability to walk away from a negotiation is all fine and well.... if you're walking away to a status quo position.     But that was never possible.    The status quo is full EU membership and participation in all EU treaties.      The walking away position is to avoidable economic damage,  restriction and barriers to trade,   restrictions and delays to vital imports,  etc etc.      

 

A bogus prospectus.

I agree with that.  The creep in no deal likelihood has been scary to witness.  

 

For the record I am dead opposed to leaving at all never mind no deal but I do predict no deal will not be as dramatic as people think.  People will get up on 1st November and for most people life will go on as before.  There will be pictures of queued lorries at ports and passenger queues for some flights but it won’t be the apocalypse being predicted in those first few days.  

[Montgomery Brewster]

3 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

Yip.

 

And this is across all parties, it's rudicilous how they lie, but journalusts aren't allowed to tell them they are when they are...

Correct. 

 

Vote none one of the above 

[AlimOzturk]

4 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I agree with that.  The creep in no deal likelihood has been scary to witness.  

 

For the record I am dead opposed to leaving at all never mind no deal but I do predict no deal will not be as dramatic as people think.  People will get up on 1st November and for most people life will go on as before.  There will be pictures of queued lorries at ports and passenger queues for some flights but it won’t be the apocalypse being predicted in those first few days.  

 

I think it will lead to a recession.

[Brighton Jambo]

2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

I think it will lead to a recession.

Probably I was meaning in the first few weeks.  A recession would take months to be determined

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I agree with that.  The creep in no deal likelihood has been scary to witness.  

 

For the record I am dead opposed to leaving at all never mind no deal but I do predict no deal will not be as dramatic as people think.  People will get up on 1st November and for most people life will go on as before.  There will be pictures of queued lorries at ports and passenger queues for some flights but it won’t be the apocalypse being predicted in those first few days.  

 

With respect,   I believe that theory is another example of 'project no fear'.      Talked about and downplayed often enough for it to be normalised in the public domain.      A better barometer is that of the number of MPs (on both sides) who are now prepared to damage their own political careers in order to attempt to avoid no deal.     

 

No deal will be very bad,   even if it ends up being part way along the spectrum of forecasts.

[jake]

4 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

I think it will lead to a recession.

Theres one on the way anyway.

[maroonlegions]

The day after the no deal Brexit, the Tory Brexit that is.

 The Tory think tanks and the right wing manipulators are so desperate that they are know showing their true colors.The slave drivers, shareholders profits at ANY cost.   

 

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by maroonlegions

[maroonlegions]

[Brighton Jambo]

26 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

With respect,   I believe that theory is another example of 'project no fear'.      Talked about and downplayed often enough for it to be normalised in the public domain.      A better barometer is that of the number of MPs (on both sides) who are now prepared to damage their own political careers in order to attempt to avoid no deal.     

 

No deal will be very bad,   even if it ends up being part way along the spectrum of forecasts.

You maybe right.  But they haven’t been that bothered up till now have they.  I’m playing devils advocate but if it will be that bad why did sturgeon, corbyn and co risk it by constantly voting down the one deal we had.   

[maroonlegions]

[The Mighty Thor]

37 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

I think it will lead to a recession.

I think you will be right. 

In fact I'd expect the next set of economic  figures to show we are in a technical recession before any effects of Brexit kick in.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

48 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

A significantly large enough section of the electorate has become hypnotised into the belief that a no-deal exit is some kind of advantageous or productive outcome.      A sort of 'mission creep' of public opinion.      It's been talked about and portrayed so often and by so many people (Tories) that it became normalised.      People like Raab and Leadsom with their fairy stories about 'managed no deals'.       

 

We have been told,   endlessly,   that no deal had to be kept on the table as a negotiating position.      Completely ignoring the concept that the ability to walk away from a negotiation is all fine and well.... if you're walking away to a status quo position.     But that was never possible.    The status quo is full EU membership and participation in all EU treaties.      The walking away position is to avoidable economic damage,  restriction and barriers to trade,   restrictions and delays to vital imports,  etc etc.      

 

A bogus prospectus.

And the biggest a lie is that no deal on October 31st is the end of the process. 

It's not even the beginning. The subsequent negotiations on the terms of our future trading relationship will take years and years and I'd doubt the UK will ever recover the financial losses from a no deal hard exit. 

 

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, Montgomery Brewster said:

Correct. 

 

Vote none one of the above 

In fairness to our lot, President Orange tells more in a day than all of ours put together.

[Costanza]

2 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I agree with that.  The creep in no deal likelihood has been scary to witness.  

 

For the record I am dead opposed to leaving at all never mind no deal but I do predict no deal will not be as dramatic as people think.  People will get up on 1st November and for most people life will go on as before.  There will be pictures of queued lorries at ports and passenger queues for some flights but it won’t be the apocalypse being predicted in those first few days.  

The government have apparently pulled a watered down version of Operation Yellowhammer as even that is too alarming for the public.

That they can't even spin a best case scenario of no deal into something positive speaks volumes..

 

https://www.ft.com/content/c95b92ea-cd90-11e9-99a4-b5ded7a7fe3f

 

 

 

 

[The Continental Op]

4 hours ago, Cade said:

Parliamentary arithmetic will be all kinds of fun.

Tories will undoubtedly lose a few seats in Scotland.

Wait and see how many Brexit Party lunatics get put forward across the nation.

LibDems possible resurgence, taking votes off of both Tory and Labour.

Can't see anybody coming out of it with a majority.

 Let’s see how the Tories like a ‘Boris in Nigel Farage’s pocket’ poster....

[The Mighty Thor]

7 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

 

Whaaaat?

 

There's no negotiations, the EU won't remove the backstop and it's all a load of lies and bullshit?

 

The closer we get to the end the more apparent it becomes that the brexiters have never had a viable plan for leaving the EU from 24th June 2016. Not a ****ing clue.

 

It also brings into sharp focus the fact that anyone who thinks that they do have a plan or that this back of the fag packet nonsense will be successful is a moron. A really proper hard of thinking moron. 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by The Mighty Thor

[kingantti1874]

13 hours ago, JackLadd said:

Bojo about to cave in to remoaners?

Exactly what boris wants, still I read this remoaner pish.. even the ducking brexit loonies want a deal, they always did.. what does that tell touch 

[ri Alban]

Feck it!

Time to put it back to the people with a GE. All parties put their cards on the table and let's go with it.

 

Tories-no deal, will win a massive majority.

Libs-remain, main opposition.

Labour  Finished.

SNP-UDI, Independence.

[Victorian]

Looks like the Johnson / Cummings strategy of ****wits is unravelling.    At the moment,   it looks like he might have to attempt to refuse to act on any parliamentary legislation to prevent no deal.    He'll face a legal challenge which he'll lose.    His election trap has been sprung.    His prorogation of parliament may even be blocked in the courts.

 

Probable three month extension of article 50.    Then a no confidence motion.    Then an interim government.   Then an election.    Brexit Party will split the Tory vote and the Tories will lose.     Probable Labour / LD or Labour / SNP coalition or confidence & supply arrangement.     Referendum.     Possible remain outcome.    Carnage.

[Cade]

Chancellor Phillip Hammond says there is NO progress in negotiations.....because there ARE no negotiations.

Also, his local constituency association has preemptively re-selected him and say they will select him again even if Boris withdraws the whip.

 

 

[Victorian]

Yep.    There are no negotiations taking place.    The Brexit Party have already made that impossible,   even if Johnson wanted a deal.      ANY deal is unacceptable for the Brexit Party and they will contest an election on that basis.     Johnson can't risk an election with the Brexit Party contesting against him.