Cruyff Turn Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Apparently 17 Labour MP’s are going to back MV3 Labour are finished. Certainly In Scotland if they do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Cruyff Turn said: Apparently 17 Labour MP’s are going to back MV3 Labour are finished. Certainly In Scotland if they do this. Why? If 17 MPs reject the party whip then that's their choice. None of the Scottish Labour MPs are part of this grouping, in fact they're some of the most vocal pro-EU voices in there. The other night a resolution was within our reach and the SNP abstained. The same night two MPs from the SNP put independence before a crisis by rejecting a second vote. They're all at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 minute ago, JamboX2 said: Why? If 17 MPs reject the party whip then that's their choice. None of the Scottish Labour MPs are part of this grouping, in fact they're some of the most vocal pro-EU voices in there. The other night a resolution was within our reach and the SNP abstained. The same night two MPs from the SNP put independence before a crisis by rejecting a second vote. They're all at it. Indeed they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, JamboX2 said: Why? If 17 MPs reject the party whip then that's their choice. None of the Scottish Labour MPs are part of this grouping, in fact they're some of the most vocal pro-EU voices in there. The other night a resolution was within our reach and the SNP abstained. The same night two MPs from the SNP put independence before a crisis by rejecting a second vote. They're all at it. It's hard to disagree with any of that really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 It's the first past the post, winner-takes-all nature of the UK political system that has brought us here. Everybody is playing politics either for party reasons, personal reasons or dogmatic reasons. Adversarial politics is a cancer eating away at democracy. Consensus politics is the norm across most of western europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 minute ago, JamboX2 said: Why? If 17 MPs reject the party whip then that's their choice. None of the Scottish Labour MPs are part of this grouping, in fact they're some of the most vocal pro-EU voices in there. The other night a resolution was within our reach and the SNP abstained. The same night two MPs from the SNP put independence before a crisis by rejecting a second vote. They're all at it. Why? The electorate here won’t care where those MP’s are from, all they’ll see is Labour MP’s voting through a hard Tory Brexit. They certainly are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 They're all bumfaces... probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doc Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 **** it. Let no deal happen. Nicola will soon fire the gun and we can rid ourselves of this shitshow. BoJo getting the keys to number 10 won't even be required. As an earlier poster said, it’s in the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Everyone’s discipline and patience has gone You’ve got to laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Labour could be engineering a backing of the WA from the back benches. Leave area MPs backing the WA as proxy for the front bench. Get it done. Avoid no deal. Plausible denial of Labour officially caving in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, The Doc said: **** it. Let no deal happen. Nicola will soon fire the gun and we can rid ourselves of this shitshow. BoJo getting the keys to number 10 won't even be required. As an earlier poster said, it’s in the post. I just hope Scotland don’t steam into independence and then find out that it’s shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Victorian said: Labour could be engineering a backing of the WA from the back benches. Leave area MPs backing the WA as proxy for the front bench. Get it done. Avoid no deal. Plausible denial of Labour officially caving in. If Corbyn wants to finish himself off finally, that’s the way to do it. johnson and his mob are twats but I’ll say this - at least they make their opinions plain. Corbyn is the most disingenuous ***** going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doc Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: I just hope Scotland don’t steam into independence and then find out that it’s shit. Well if it is at least it’ll be shit of our own doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: If Corbyn wants to finish himself off finally, that’s the way to do it. johnson and his mob are twats but I’ll say this - at least they make their opinions plain. Corbyn is the most disingenuous ***** going Maybe. But national interest decisions or shady deal makings could be later described as being realistic, pragmatic, admirable. I reckon she needs about 40 Labour MPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Brexiteers voting for the deal now as they fear another extension or a 2nd referendum. Labour MPs defying the whip to vote for the deal now as they fear a no deal crash out. Never mind that passing the deal today then puts the political declaration into the hands of the new PM (god forbid Boris or Hunt or Gove) This could be tighter than anybody thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Sir John Redwood: "Who on earth would agree to pay unlimited, unknown bills and not have genuine independent arbitration over the purpose?" Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to name but three ya dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, Cade said: Brexiteers voting for the deal now as they fear another extension or a 2nd referendum. Labour MPs defying the whip to vote for the deal now as they fear a no deal crash out. Never mind that passing the deal today then puts the political declaration into the hands of the new PM (god forbid Boris or Hunt or Gove) This could be tighter than anybody thought. What time do they vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 So if these 17 Labour MPs do back it it would be enough to pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Just now, hughesie27 said: So if these 17 Labour MPs do back it it would be enough to pass? No. About 40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Trying to listen to the interviews , whats all that background playground noise, nippy . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, Victorian said: No. About 40. Lavly I hope they never get re-elected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: Lavly I hope they never get re-elected The thing is, I’ve never totally understood MPs shitting themselves about getting voted out by their constituencies. Say, for example, you’re a Labour MP in Sunderland who goes against a Brexit vote. Sunderland isn’t suddenly going to vote Tory FFS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: The thing is, I’ve never totally understood MPs shitting themselves about getting voted out by their constituencies. Say, for example, you’re a Labour MP in Sunderland who goes against a Brexit vote. Sunderland isn’t suddenly going to vote Tory FFS. The party might chuck you outh though. Or choose not to put you forward in the same constituency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 5 hours ago, Lord BJ said: An interesting insight to the cabinet. There is a possibility May guaranteed to EU vote would be this week even though knows it will be defeated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Cruyff Turn said: Why? The electorate here won’t care where those MP’s are from, all they’ll see is Labour MP’s voting through a hard Tory Brexit. They certainly are. There have been several Labour MPs voting for the Deal from the start and in other votes against the Labour position. It isn't massively controversial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: There is a possibility May guaranteed to EU vote would be this week even though knows it will be defeated. Yes that was part of the agreement. We only got the extension(s) if the 3rd MV was held by 11pm today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Victorian said: Labour could be engineering a backing of the WA from the back benches. Leave area MPs backing the WA as proxy for the front bench. Get it done. Avoid no deal. Plausible denial of Labour officially caving in. Numbers don't back that theory. Labour want a general election and to break the Tory party. They support the Deal if political declaration is changed to back a customs union and closer alignment to the single market. But who knows. Numbers could indeed change today. Encourage more Labour MPs to back deal. Edited March 29, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 The next election is going to be a (political) bloodbath. The campaining will be horrific. Can't say I'm looking forward to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 23 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: The thing is, I’ve never totally understood MPs shitting themselves about getting voted out by their constituencies. Say, for example, you’re a Labour MP in Sunderland who goes against a Brexit vote. Sunderland isn’t suddenly going to vote Tory FFS. Exactly. It all depends on how marginal the vote is in the constituency and how inelastic the support for the party is. Of course, that doesn't account for the occasional pitchforks to the castle event when an MP transgresses in such a way that the media jumps on it and everyone decides to make an example of the MP. I don't think the way an MP votes on Brexit is such an event though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, Victorian said: The next election is going to be a (political) bloodbath. The campaining will be horrific. Can't say I'm looking forward to it. You're going to be loving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 15 minutes ago, redjambo said: You're going to be loving it. Ken. Any excuse to be a miserable cant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 If this deal goes through the DUP are going to be even more batshit mental angry than usual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, Smithee said: If this deal goes through the DUP are going to be even more batshit mental angry than usual And that takes some doing ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 "UKIP" and "DFLA" and "UK Yellow Vests" planning demos in London later on. Send in the tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 22 minutes ago, Smithee said: If this deal goes through the DUP are going to be even more batshit mental angry than usual Maybe about time they realised England doesn't actually give that much of a shit about the North of Ireland. Had they not been in an arrangement with the DUP I'm certain the backstop would be happily accepted by the majority of Tories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 12 minutes ago, Cade said: "UKIP" and "DFLA" and "UK Yellow Vests" planning demos in London later on. Send in the tanks. how terribly European! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftBack Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 16 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said: Maybe about time they realised England doesn't actually give that much of a shit about the North of Ireland. Had they not been in an arrangement with the DUP I'm certain the backstop would be happily accepted by the majority of Tories. Absolutely. The brexiteers are shameful... We hate the deal, its bad for the UK... But we don't care because we hate Europe more. Many if not all brexiteers are millionaires for whom nothing will get worse. And all this nonsense about not endorsing referendum being an affront to democracy... What on earth does that make what is happening now??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said: Why? The electorate here won’t care where those MP’s are from, all they’ll see is Labour MP’s voting through a hard Tory Brexit. They certainly are. Don't think they are mate. The press are saying government is doing enough for that to happen. If they do though, I'd be asking searching questions of the LDs, TIG and the SNP over voting down the CU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 minute ago, JamboX2 said: Don't think they are mate. The press are saying government is doing enough for that to happen. If they do though, I'd be asking searching questions of the LDs, TIG and the SNP over voting down the CU. Customs Union is still on though. Future relationship including political declaration still needs voted through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftBack Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: The thing is, I’ve never totally understood MPs shitting themselves about getting voted out by their constituencies. Say, for example, you’re a Labour MP in Sunderland who goes against a Brexit vote. Sunderland isn’t suddenly going to vote Tory FFS. In that scenario I'm sure UKIP would be fielding candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, JamboX2 said: Don't think they are mate. The press are saying government is doing enough for that to happen. If they do though, I'd be asking searching questions of the LDs, TIG and the SNP over voting down the CU. Lab now realising its a trap...thank funk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, LeftBack said: In that scenario I'm sure UKIP would be fielding candidates. UKIP have gone full-on goose-step mode now though. I think their moment as a serious party has gone (if it ever was a thing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Admiral Ackbar tweeting about a trap now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftBack Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cade said: UKIP have gone full-on goose-step mode now though. I think their moment as a serious party has gone (if it ever was a thing). Fair point but they will still garner votes unfortunately. Does farage not have new party. The point is about MPs from Brexit constituencies voting against deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, LeftBack said: Fair point but they will still garner votes unfortunately. Does farage not have new party. The point is about MPs from Brexit constituencies voting against deal. Fromage's new party was pretty much just him and one other woman, who has since quit after being revealed as a racist and islamophobe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Cade said: It's the first past the post, winner-takes-all nature of the UK political system that has brought us here. Everybody is playing politics either for party reasons, personal reasons or dogmatic reasons. Adversarial politics is a cancer eating away at democracy. Consensus politics is the norm across most of western europe. All politics is adversarial. This is just ridiculous. No one is willing to budge. In fact those who called for consensus last week (TIG, LD and SNP) threw away a chance of that this week. If this blind withdrawal goes through everyone will have failed all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Smithee said: If this deal goes through the DUP are going to be even more batshit mental angry than usual Would then lead to the question of would they dissolve the coalition or show themselves as nothing but power hungry and stay with the Tories even though this is to a degree the worst nightmare for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said: Lab now realising its a trap...thank funk. They've always known this. The whole story was a fabrication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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