Entire high rise alight in London

[Jambo-Jimbo]

If purdah in an unnecessary election prevented this report from being published, there will be finger-pointing, quite rightly.

 

The report has been getting 'looked at' for 4 years now, and there has been several ministers long before Theresa May became PM who have dragged their heels over this.

 

But surely you would have known this, that it had nothing whatsoever to do with Purdah or any election, if you've read the news reports.

 

[Shanks said no]

One stair is fine as it should be protected for an hour, if you get in there then you're next place should be to a place of safety. Something doesn't seem right with how it's gone up in flames.

 

Ryden are very quick to release a statement saying they done all their work to standard.

think the firm is Rydon

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[southcap]

Edinburgh schools come to mind here.

[AlimOzturk]

People are lying dead and many more are missing and all we are seeing is finger pointing and a sense of "I told you so"

 

Even the news reporters only seem to be interested in is getting the best shots and film footage. There is no worry or compassion in their reports.

 

What is wrong with people ffs. Lets get the building sorted, humanitarian duties done and fund raising sorted before we start looking to blame the people responsible.

[maroonlegions]

I see that  the council had previously threatened  the main blogger of the Grenfell Tower block action group who had warned of the dangers that existed.

 

Letter from KCTMO Tory council, threatening blogger who was posting about dangers of fire at Grenfell Towers.

 

 

  

 

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by maroonlegions

[chubby1973]

You can see it's just a shell now on the higher floors, it'll have to be demolished if it doesn't collapse by itself.

That's more or less what i was trying to say, just didn't word it right.

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Tars]

Apparently the fire bridgade checked the building a few days ago. Residents were also told to close the door and stay in their home if there was a fire.

[chubby1973]

I see that the council had previously threatened the main blogger of the Grenfell Tower block action group who had warned of the dangers that existed.

 

Letter from KCTMO Tory council, threatening blogger who was posting about dangers of fire at Grenfell Towers.

 

 

 

 

1 witness interviewed did say they had a party at labour winning the seat in the election as they felt they were finally being listened to. Sadly, fate played a hand before any concerns could be addressed to prevent this.

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Jambo-Jimbo]

I'm not blaming May, or anyone else for that matter.  I simply mentioned that the report was "sat on" and the recent election delayed its release due to purdah.

 

I agree with Alim, best to ensure that everyone is safe and that the families have recovered before incriminations start.

 

Indeed, people have died whilst many many others have lost everything, absolutely everything they own.

 

If Government Ministers have 'sat on' a report and delayed it for whatever reason, then now is not the time to start pointing fingers, there will be plenty of time for recriminations, unfortunately that still hasn't stopped some sections of the print media from doing so.

[I P Knightley]

People are lying dead and many more are missing and all we are seeing is finger pointing and a sense of "I told you so"

 

Even the news reporters only seem to be interested in is getting the best shots and film footage. There is no worry or compassion in their reports.

 

What is wrong with people ffs. Lets get the building sorted, humanitarian duties done and fund raising sorted before we start looking to blame the people responsible.

Well said, Alim.

 

I know that there's a tendency for people (particularly those being interviewed by the media) to say what they think will excite the interviewer and make it onto the telly - and I also accept that those experiencing the trauma will, perhaps, exaggerate due to raised adrenaline & whatnot. However, the feeding off that by detached observers gets unbearable:

 

"I'm not saying that this is what happened but if it did happen then... 5 lines of rant which, basically say I believe this happened and it's a feckin' disgrace."

 

 

120+ families have been horribly affected to the extent that 'losing your home' is the least worst of the options. 

 

It's impressive to see how the local community - a very diverse area - are pulling together to offer support. 

 

Worry about the recriminations and conspiracy theories later when all's been done to get people safe.

[Alwayssunnyingorgie]

Is it just me or does the building look like it's buckled?

[Armageddon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtmdEbLgUnI

 

Not that this would have been any good in this situation given the external inferno, but I saw this a while back and it came into mind today.

[maroonlegions]

Well said, Alim.

 

I know that there's a tendency for people (particularly those being interviewed by the media) to say what they think will excite the interviewer and make it onto the telly - and I also accept that those experiencing the trauma will, perhaps, exaggerate due to raised adrenaline & whatnot. However, the feeding off that by detached observers gets unbearable:

 

"I'm not saying that this is what happened but if it did happen then... 5 lines of rant which, basically say I believe this happened and it's a feckin' disgrace."

 

 

120+ families have been horribly affected to the extent that 'losing your home' is the least worst of the options. 

 

It's impressive to see how the local community - a very diverse area - are pulling together to offer support. 

 

Worry about the recriminations and conspiracy theories later when all's been done to get people safe.

 

 

At the same time investigations will hopefully start quickly enough to get those responsible  for any discrepancies from that company involved with the refurbishments and insulation, and held to account and to answer awkward questions .

 

We are dealing with facts just now ..

 

1; On how one council told one member of that group of residents  in 2013 who were raising concerns to shut it by a threatening worded letter.

 

2; Then we have the company who were responsible for insulating the outside of that tower block  that used  material that is already banned in Dubai.

 

None of the two main facts above are conspiracy theories.

 

 For my part anyway  the two main facts above is what i have trouble with ,and i am sure many of those who survived and who may have lost love ones also will have real issues with and no doubt will want serious answers too as well in time. 

 

I would want answers too  if it was me being effected by this sad tragedy.

 

Lets hope those very unfortunate people  are found accommodation  quick and that  their local council does all it can to provided it. 

[Салатные палочки]

From Rydon website, the company that carried out the refurbishment.  

 

http://www.rydon.co.uk/what-we-do/refurbishment/case-studies/refurbishment-case-studies/grenfell-tower

 

 

[Craig Gordons Gloves]

People are lying dead and many more are missing and all we are seeing is finger pointing and a sense of "I told you so"

 

Even the news reporters only seem to be interested in is getting the best shots and film footage. There is no worry or compassion in their reports.

 

What is wrong with people ffs. Lets get the building sorted, humanitarian duties done and fund raising sorted before we start looking to blame the people responsible.

 

I listened to 5 live on the way to work this morning (their afternoon show) and the whole hour was filled with the reporters being compassionate. They were refusing to approach people and were focusing on the horrifying nature of what people were experiencing as opposed to anything else.  Kudos to them.

[maroonlegions]

Good to see help points being set up to aid these poor people.

 

[scott herbertson]

I agree with alimturk it's far better to let the investigations into the cause of the fire run their course first before starting to extrapolate from limited information and blame people before real evidence becomes available

[maroonlegions]

From Rydon website, the company that carried out the refurbishment.  

 

http://www.rydon.co.uk/what-we-do/refurbishment/case-studies/refurbishment-case-studies/grenfell-tower

 That main director of that company was grilled by Piers Morgan this morning live on TV. 

 

His line went dead at the end when Piers had asked a real awkward question as to why he did not know what kind of material was used in the insulation as he was the director after all???

[Helzibob]

So sad watching this on the news this morning. I hope a fundraising page is started, people have literally been left with nothing and those are the lucky ones. It's truly devastating.

[Alwayssunnyingorgie]

That main director of that company was grilled by Piers Morgan this morning live on TV.

 

His line went dead at the end when Piers had asked a real awkward question as to why he did not know what kind of material was used in the insulation as he was the director after all???

I doubt the director of the company would really deal with any of the construction side of stuff, would it not be project managers/engineers and the people actually working on the job that would have specific details?

[felix]

""Dr Jim Glocking, technical director of the Fire Protection Association (FPA), an industry body which carries out tests on fire safety issues, among other things, said a major issue was that insulation underneath cladding on the outside of tower blocks did not need to be fireproof.""

The FPA had ?lobbied long and hard? for building regulations on the issue to be changed, but nothing had happened, Glocking said: ?Various ministers have said over the years that there will be an imminent review, but it keeps being put on hold, in spite of organisations like ourselves campaigning very hard.?

 

Interestingly enough...if that building had been in Scotland - Government Legislation insists the new  insulation would have to be fireproof .

[Cade]

Donations of blankets, sleeping bags, matresses, clothes, food, electrical items and toys for kids have reached such proportions that charities are now asking for material donations to stop and for people to send money instead.

[maroonlegions]

I doubt the director of the company would really deal with any of the construction side of stuff, would it not be project managers/engineers and the people actually working on the job that would have specific details?

 

Yes of course but when his  company is in real danger of facing blame for such a tragedy surely he would have had access to such information, i mean he was interviewed hours after the blaze and accusations about the material used was being questioned, even way back in 2013??

 

Due-diligence  and heath and safety reports ?? would he have not at some point signed them off?

 

Anyway most of his answers were along the lines "we met the standard specifications ", when he answered one question that was put to him in regards about the  material"s used??

 

Was he aware that those materials were banned in Dubai??  he might have to be sacking his head of engineers and structural personnel. 

 

There were  also other very awkward questions being posed to him, cant remember them all but the last one he failed to answer as his line suddenly went  dead.???

[maroonlegions]

Donations of blankets, sleeping bags, matresses, clothes, food, electrical items and toys for kids have reached such proportions that charities are now asking for material donations to stop and for people to send money instead.

 

Magic, 

[Elias Henry Furst]

12 dead.

 

78 people admitted to hospital.

 

I really really hope there were hundreds that made it out unharmed or the death toll number is going to rise significantly.

 

Horrific.

[Armageddon]

12 dead.

 

78 people admitted to hospital.

 

I really really hope there were hundreds that made it out unharmed or the death toll number is going to rise significantly.

 

Horrific.

Anything less than 50 will be a miracle here

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Awful, awful stuff. It's staggering to me. I genuinely thought this kind of thing was in the past. I naively thought we had basically cracked fire safety to a large extent in big buildings. Close the doors, the thing will be contained, and file out calmly. I can't quite believe this has happened.

[Jeff]

Awful, awful stuff. It's staggering to me. I genuinely thought this kind of thing was in the past. I naively thought we had basically cracked fire safety to a large extent in big buildings. Close the doors, the thing will be contained, and file out calmly. I can't quite believe this has happened.

 

Far too many companies and businesses are far more interested in earning a quick buck than their customers health and safety

[SwindonJambo]

Far too many companies and businesses are far more interested in earning a quick buck than their customers health and safety

Yep. And it's always been the case too. Money spent on health and safety is seen as an expense, eating into profits. Shameful stuff.

Edited June 14, 2017 by SwindonJambo

[Jeff]

Anything less than 50 will be a miracle here

 

Was doing some morbid maths earlier. I heard a story that no one on the top three floors survived and judging by the plans posted in here earlier, there is 6 rooms a floor. If you put an average of a family of three in each room that's 54 dead on the top 3 floors alone. Absolutely horrible thing to happen, especially when you hear the number of kids that are missing.

[Alwayssunnyingorgie]

Yes of course but when his company is in real danger of facing blame for such a tragedy surely he would have had access to such information, i mean he was interviewed hours after the blaze and accusations about the material used was being questioned, even way back in 2013??

 

Due-diligence and heath and safety reports ?? would he have not at some point signed them off?

 

Anyway most of his answers were along the lines "we met the standard specifications ", when he answered one question that was put to him in regards about the material"s used??

 

Was he aware that those materials were banned in Dubai?? he might have to be sacking his head of engineers and structural personnel.

 

There were also other very awkward questions being posed to him, cant remember them all but the last one he failed to answer as his line suddenly went dead.???

He could have only found out about the fire when he got up this morning, as you say it was hours after the blaze he may not have had the information to hand at the point and as much as people want an answer if he gave false information it could do him more damage.

 

If the material used isn't banned in the UK which is were the fire happend not dubai and met all UK saftey requirements why should anyone be sacked? Asbestos was used for decades and deemed safe by the government until the 90s yet has caused a massive amount of deaths. It's the government that decide saftey requirements for saftey so it's them drastically improve requirements for Tower blocks.

 

H&S reports and such would be signed off by the project manager would they not?

[Armageddon]

Was doing some morbid maths earlier. I heard a story that no one on the top three floors survived and judging by the plans posted in here earlier, there is 6 rooms a floor. If you put an average of a family of three in each room that's 54 dead on the top 3 floors alone. Absolutely horrible thing to happen, especially when you hear the number of kids that are missing.

There are 12-16 bedrooms a floor I'm sure and you have to think some of these flats may have been over occupied - hope I'm totally wrong

[Victorian]

The aid and volunteer efforts have been simply humbling. Staggering really compared to what can be the perception of an uncaring society.

[chubby1973]

So sad watching this on the news this morning. I hope a fundraising page is started, people have literally been left with nothing and those are the lucky ones. It's truly devastating.

The boy who was interviewed by jane hill on bbc and mentioned celebrating a new labour mp, also said there was a just giving page set up. Sure he said it's aim was 50k, but had been increased to 500k.

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Cade]

https://www.gofundme.com/raise-funds/grenfell-tower-fire

[Different Class]

Saw this on twitter - a blog concerning fire safety in Grenfell Tower a YEAR ago.

 

 

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/01/24/grenfell-tower-still-a-fire-risk/amp/

[Bindy Badgy]

I listened to 5 live on the way to work this morning (their afternoon show) and the whole hour was filled with the reporters being compassionate. They were refusing to approach people and were focusing on the horrifying nature of what people were experiencing as opposed to anything else.  Kudos to them.

 

Good to hear. One of the reporters on BBC News was a massive twat, kept shoving his microphone into the faces of people that were in tears or looking for friends and relatives.

[I P Knightley]

One of my son's school mates lived in the tower. He and his family made it out safely but are left with nothing. The school is making sure he's alright with what the lad needs, like books, school uniform, games kit and everything and friends& family are pulling together for digs etc. That's just one family and is short term. The effort to make things good for 120 families is just mind-boggling.

 

There were another 5 or so pupils from the school live inside the cordoned area. They and another 5 or so bunked off school so they could help out with whatever support they could.

 

As ever, the best of British comes to the fore in challenging times.

 

(I doubt my son will sleep well tonight. Bit of a worrier and this has been a bit close to home)

[I P Knightley]

You guessed correctly. 

Thanks for the info. I thought with the possibility of the block coming down, there may have been a need to remove people from surrounding areas (based on a guy at work telling me that when they demolished a block of flats when he was in Dundee, everyone in the surrounding neighbourhood had to be evacuated). 

 

The owner of the property has actually contacted us since my original post to let us know that everything will go ahead as planned and he'll meet us outside the property on Friday.

They're virtually a whole tube stop apart. Sometimes that can feel like the difference between Edinburgh and Glasgow in the feel of neighbourhoods.

 

I had some business in Holland Park today. Walked from HP station to Shepherd's Bush. Road traffic was dreadful but most of the road closures will be lifted tomorrow.

 

You should get to Ladbroke Grove easily on the tube from KGX but check tfl.gov.uk on the day to be sure. Sure you'll have a good time.

[Jeff]

Was it true that a Sky reporter said 'Atleast you don't have to go to school today' to a kid that had been effected by the fire?

[Cade]

Was it true that a Sky reporter said 'Atleast you don't have to go to school today' to a kid that had been effected by the fire?

 

Some kids affected by the fire actually went to sit GCSE exams this morning, if you can believe that!

[Crete]

Absolutely tragic my thoughts are with everyone affected with this tragedy.

A special mention to the brave firemen/woman.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Just watching the news and nearly 24 hours have gone by from the start of the fire and it's still burning on at least 12 floors, just shows you the intensity of the fire, surprised there is anything left still to burn.

 

 

[Guess The Crowd]

One of my son's school mates lived in the tower. He and his family made it out safely but are left with nothing. The school is making sure he's alright with what the lad needs, like books, school uniform, games kit and everything and friends& family are pulling together for digs etc. That's just one family and is short term. The effort to make things good for 120 families is just mind-boggling.

 

There were another 5 or so pupils from the school live inside the cordoned area. They and another 5 or so bunked off school so they could help out with whatever support they could.

 

As ever, the best of British comes to the fore in challenging times.

 

(I doubt my son will sleep well tonight. Bit of a worrier and this has been a bit close to home)

 

 

Really tragic and humbling to read...

[Unknown user]

One guy pointing out that fire doesn't climb up concrete without something to latch onto. The cladding appears to have simultaneously been fuel for the fire on the outside of the building, while the gap between concrete and cladding acted like a chimney.

 

All this talk about cladding, the only thing I can think of similar in Edinburgh is the flats at Dumbiedykes. They had stuff put around the existing structure to spruce them up a bit about 10 years ago (iirc).

Cobbinshaw in the calders is being re-clad now I believe

[luckyBatistuta]

Just watching the news and nearly 24 hours have gone by from the start of the fire and it's still burning on at least 12 floors, just shows you the intensity of the fire, surprised there is anything left still to burn.

Not long in and one of the first things I did, was to turn the tv on and get an update on it. I couldn't believe how bad the fire is now, it looks worse than it was when I went out about 7 hours ago.

[luckyBatistuta]

Cobbinshaw in the calders is being re-clad now I believe

Really, I'd be shoiting myself if I was in there.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

The aid and volunteer efforts have been simply humbling. Staggering really compared to what can be the perception of an uncaring society.

It is tremendous how so many people are doing everything they can to help. London maybe has had an unfair image of being a bit self centred in the past but the terrible events of the last few weeks shows its people are full of compassion, good people all round.

[Unknown user]

Really, I'd be shoiting myself if I was in there.

My mate bought a place in there a few years ago with a tenant discount, just been stung for four grand for his share of the cost!

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

Not long in and one of the first things I did, was to turn the tv on and get an update on it. I couldn't believe how bad the fire is now, it looks worse than it was when I went out about 7 hours ago.

Probably impractical in a built up area but couldn't they water bomb it using a plane or something.