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Entire high rise alight in London


Col1874

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Photographer had to get police protection yesterday due to taking close ups of grieving families.

 

People calling for the numerous empty mansions owned by absentee overseas landlord/owners to be requisitioned as temporary re-housing for the homeless families.

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Governor Tarkin

It's impressive to see how the local community - a very diverse area - are pulling together to offer support.

 

Worry about the recriminations and conspiracy theories later when all's been done to get people safe.

This.

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Escobar PHM

Watching the scrum with Sadiq Khan there are understandably some extremely angry people.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if turns to violence at some point.

You know what. Good on him for facing up to that. He must have known what was coming and he walked right through the crowd stopping and answering questions from punters. Even the wee laddie that asked "How many children have died " got a bit of time and respect. Compare that with Theresa May who only spoke to firefighters and polis.

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Escobar PHM

Seems to be accepted knowledge that nobody in the top 4 floors got out.

 

That's 24 entire flats full of folk.

The Police commander knows its well into 3 figures. He's got 400 individual missing person reports from the Casualty Bureau. Even if he accounts for half of those and some werent there in the first place, the final toll is going to be massive here unfortunately. All those poor folk running about putting posters up probably know in the back of their minds. Bloody awful.

Edited by Escobar PHM
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You know what. Good on him for facing up to that. He must have known what was coming and he walked right through the crowd stopping and answering questions from punters. Even the wee laddie that asked "How many children have died " got a bit of time and respect. Compare that with Theresa May who only spoke to firefighters and polis.

I completely agree. He didn't give any sound bites or false hope. The young laddie may have been put up to ask the question but Khan engaged him and more importantly didn't patronise him.

 

I'm going to be a wee bit controversial here but I think if May had done a public walkabout she would have been lynched.

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maroonlegions

I completely agree. He didn't give any sound bites or false hope. The young laddie may have been put up to ask the question but Khan engaged him and more importantly didn't patronise him.

 

I'm going to be a wee bit controversial here but I think if May had done a public walkabout she would have been lynched.

 Agree with your comment on May.  

 

Just as well her new chief of staff a one Gavin Barwell was not with her.

 

 

"Theresa May?s new chief of staff faced questions on Wednesday over his role in a delayed fire safety review, after a deadly blaze tore through the Grenfell Tower in London.

 

Gavin Barwell failed to give the review the green light during his tenure as housing minister, despite it already having waited for years.

 

The fire expert behind a report calling for the desperately needed safety appraisal, said he had spoken to Mr Barwell earlier this year and the then-minister told him no decision on the review had been taken".

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/london-fire-grenfell-theresa-may-tories-accusations-fire-safety-warnings-ignored-tower-block-a7790501.html

Edited by maroonlegions
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Jambo-Jimbo

I completely agree. He didn't give any sound bites or false hope. The young laddie may have been put up to ask the question but Khan engaged him and more importantly didn't patronise him.

 

I'm going to be a wee bit controversial here but I think if May had done a public walkabout she would have been lynched.

 

Her security detail would never had allowed her to do a walkabout, not a chance, she might have met ordinary normal people.

 

It is one of her faults as she just can't seem to engage with normal people.

 

All Kudos to Sadiq Khan though because as it's been said he must have known he'd be asked awkward questions and possibly have to face angry family members, but he handled it with humility, respect and understanding.  He listened and gave as best an answer as he could, unlike most other politicians who would just give out sound bites.

 

     

 

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Her security detail would never had allowed her to do a walkabout, not a chance, she might have met ordinary normal people.

 

It is one of her faults as she just can't seem to engage with normal people.

 

All Kudos to Sadiq Khan though because as it's been said he must have known he'd be asked awkward questions and possibly have to face angry family members, but he handled it with humility, respect and understanding. He listened and gave as best an answer as he could, unlike most other politicians who would just give out sound bites.

 

 

 

My controversial bit was me saying she was probably right not to do a walkabout today as it could have led to violence.

 

I agree that she cannot engage with......well anybody really.

Edited by Notts1874
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Jambo-Jimbo

My controversial bit was me saying she was probably right not to do a walkabout today as it could have led to violence.

 

I agree that she cannot engage with......well anybody really.

 

Undoubtedly.

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Reports suggesting death toll could rise to over 100.

  

Seems to be accepted knowledge that nobody in the top 4 floors got out.

 

That's 24 entire flats full of folk.

Aw shit.

 

Too much for London in particular and the world in general to bear.

 

Horrendous situation.

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The public inquiry effectively defers the blame game for a long time. It will be a long and complex inquiry. I get the impression it might not nail down the specific persons / organisations people want to see prosecuted. It already looks like a systematic failure covering many, many stakeholders over many years.

 

The residents were ignored and virtually warned off from complaining. Hopefully that element is adequately dealt with and a cultural change is successfully forced.

Edited by Victorian
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There is no government response to this disaster. All the work is coming through already beleagured community groups, churches and local community groups. All money has come from donations. The council has offered less than half the families temporary accommodation, often sub standard and over crowded. The leader of the Tory Council appears to be blaming the residents themselves for this. What is needed now is action on the ground funded by the state. Council's used to have an emergency plan to deal with catastrophe's far bigger than this. Where is it now? Did it really get thrown out because of austerity?

 

2000 are directly impacted locally. Ten times that are impacted by connection. In the 5th richest country in the world, do we really hate our own people this much. I am rarely upset or angry in these situations but this time I'm furious. These people died, and there are scores of them, these people died because they have the audacity to have **** all and live in a rich London Borough. The wealthy incomers didn't want them there, the council didn't want them there and their safety was irrelevant.

 

It is time for action and real change, not public cover ups from the men and women in suits.

 

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The numbers dead will make a difference.

 

In the hundreds which seems possible re numbers missing etc and there will be no hiding place for anyone.

 

1 life is too many but 000s dead will keep the story forever in people's minds and it won't be possible to deflect or delay.

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Салатные палочки

There is no government response to this disaster. All the work is coming through already beleagured community groups, churches and local community groups. All money has come from donations. The council has offered less than half the families temporary accommodation, often sub standard and over crowded. The leader of the Tory Council appears to be blaming the residents themselves for this. What is needed now is action on the ground funded by the state. Council's used to have an emergency plan to deal with catastrophe's far bigger than this. Where is it now? Did it really get thrown out because of austerity?

 

2000 are directly impacted locally. Ten times that are impacted by connection. In the 5th richest country in the world, do we really hate our own people this much. I am rarely upset or angry in these situations but this time I'm furious. These people died, and there are scores of them, these people died because they have the audacity to have **** all and live in a rich London Borough. The wealthy incomers didn't want them there, the council didn't want them there and their safety was irrelevant.

 

It is time for action and real change, not public cover ups from the men and women in suits.

Great but sobering post.

 

I really hope heads roll over this.

 

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

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There is no government response to this disaster. All the work is coming through already beleagured community groups, churches and local community groups. All money has come from donations. The council has offered less than half the families temporary accommodation, often sub standard and over crowded. The leader of the Tory Council appears to be blaming the residents themselves for this. What is needed now is action on the ground funded by the state. Council's used to have an emergency plan to deal with catastrophe's far bigger than this. Where is it now? Did it really get thrown out because of austerity?

 

2000 are directly impacted locally. Ten times that are impacted by connection. In the 5th richest country in the world, do we really hate our own people this much. I am rarely upset or angry in these situations but this time I'm furious. These people died, and there are scores of them, these people died because they have the audacity to have **** all and live in a rich London Borough. The wealthy incomers didn't want them there, the council didn't want them there and their safety was irrelevant.

 

It is time for action and real change, not public cover ups from the men and women in suits.

The situation of public/ private 'partnership' / profit and how public services are organised in places like London will very much be exposed.

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There is no government response to this disaster. All the work is coming through already beleagured community groups, churches and local community groups. All money has come from donations. The council has offered less than half the families temporary accommodation, often sub standard and over crowded. The leader of the Tory Council appears to be blaming the residents themselves for this. What is needed now is action on the ground funded by the state. Council's used to have an emergency plan to deal with catastrophe's far bigger than this. Where is it now? Did it really get thrown out because of austerity?

 

2000 are directly impacted locally. Ten times that are impacted by connection. In the 5th richest country in the world, do we really hate our own people this much. I am rarely upset or angry in these situations but this time I'm furious. These people died, and there are scores of them, these people died because they have the audacity to have **** all and live in a rich London Borough. The wealthy incomers didn't want them there, the council didn't want them there and their safety was irrelevant.

 

It is time for action and real change, not public cover ups from the men and women in suits.

Yep.

 

Who lived in that death trap? The poor.

Who died? The poor.

Who caused this? The rich.

Who's helping? The poor.

Who'll be the ones controlling the inquests? The rich.

Who'll end up paying for improved standards? The poor.

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The Real Maroonblood

Yep.

Who lived in that death trap? The poor.

Who died? The poor.

Who caused this? The rich.

Who's helping? The poor.

Who'll be the ones controlling the inquests? The rich.

Who'll end up paying for improved standards? The poor.

Spot on.
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Unknown user

The situation of public/ private 'partnership' / profit and how public services are organised in places like London will very much be exposed.

Yep, and unfortunately something like this is the inevitable result of years of under investment, in housing stock and in general.

When the focus becomes every man for himself, find your profits, no one's looking out for the poor.

So sad.

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Dagger Is Back

Criminal investigation launched by the police.

 

A horrible tragedy. The most important thing at the moment is to quickly understand what happened and identify if any other buildings are at risk. If there are, then clearly the issue needs to be removed,

 

Going forward, people need answers and ultimately those found to be negligent in any way will be dealt with.

 

This is far too tragic to be swept away as has been done in the past.

 

On a political note, this is the end of May. She'll

be gone in a matter of months.

 

You can fully understand and feel the anger, and you get a real sense of that by speaking to folks and social media etc

 

People have had enough

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I see the press today are going with "the residents didn't want a sprinkler system as it would have been more inconvenience for them". I wonder who pushed that information to the press? Let's blame the victims yet again.

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Unknown user

I see the press today are going with "the residents didn't want a sprinkler system as it would have been more inconvenience for them". I wonder who pushed that information to the press? Let's blame the victims yet again.

Honestly??

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Салатные палочки

I see the press today are going with "the residents didn't want a sprinkler system as it would have been more inconvenience for them". I wonder who pushed that information to the press? Let's blame the victims yet again.

 

That's a massive statement from a person in such a high position. Can he prove that this was put to a vote at a residents meeting? Or did they just force-feed the residents the view that it would be a massive disruption to them? The Council are panicking here.  

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Saw that starting last night. As if the residents requests are in any way taken into account. The whole point is the residents were totally stonewalled for years. It's quite indicative that it's now being suggested that residents wishes could over-ride any planned works to install safety measures. It feeds into the culture of deflection and refusal to be accountable.

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Sorry but what is wrong with that article? Ah it is a Tory.

Doesn't matter if he's Tory or not.

 

Its about shifting the blame. As a poster you know an awful lot about blame as you talk about it quite a lot, especially about football matters...so pipe down.

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Doesn't matter if he's Tory or not.

 

Its about shifting the blame. As a poster you know an awful lot about blame as you talk about it quite a lot, especially about football matters...so pipe down.

You put it better than I would have. I hovered over the keys but decided not to rise to his bait.

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Doesn't matter if he's Tory or not.

 

Its about shifting the blame. As a poster you know an awful lot about blame as you talk about it quite a lot, especially about football matters...so pipe down.

Couldn't out it better.

 

I8 talks some amount of shit.

Edited by AlimOzturk
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The Internet

Daily mail is depressingly good at getting clicks. They know exactly what winds people up and they don't care who they offend.

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Unknown user

Doesn't matter if he's Tory or not.

 

Its about shifting the blame. As a poster you know an awful lot about blame as you talk about it quite a lot, especially about football matters...so pipe down.

Well said
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Doesn't matter if he's Tory or not.

 

Its about shifting the blame. As a poster you know an awful lot about blame as you talk about it quite a lot, especially about football matters...so pipe down.

 

 

Why would he need to shift the blame?  You would have to be an idiot to blame the government for this.  I guess it is also the Tories fault that the flats were dangerously overcrowded too right?

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Unknown user

There is no government response to this disaster. All the work is coming through already beleagured community groups, churches and local community groups. All money has come from donations. The council has offered less than half the families temporary accommodation, often sub standard and over crowded. The leader of the Tory Council appears to be blaming the residents themselves for this. What is needed now is action on the ground funded by the state. Council's used to have an emergency plan to deal with catastrophe's far bigger than this. Where is it now? Did it really get thrown out because of austerity?

 

2000 are directly impacted locally. Ten times that are impacted by connection. In the 5th richest country in the world, do we really hate our own people this much. I am rarely upset or angry in these situations but this time I'm furious. These people died, and there are scores of them, these people died because they have the audacity to have **** all and live in a rich London Borough. The wealthy incomers didn't want them there, the council didn't want them there and their safety was irrelevant.

 

It is time for action and real change, not public cover ups from the men and women in suits.

I just saw this, great post.

This "**** the poor" attitude has to stop

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Why would he need to shift the blame? You would have to be an idiot to blame the government for this. I guess it is also the Tories fault that the flats were dangerously overcrowded too right?

Don't know why I'm doing this......Who's to blame then?

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There is no government response to this disaster. All the work is coming through already beleagured community groups, churches and local community groups. All money has come from donations. The council has offered less than half the families temporary accommodation, often sub standard and over crowded. The leader of the Tory Council appears to be blaming the residents themselves for this. What is needed now is action on the ground funded by the state. Council's used to have an emergency plan to deal with catastrophe's far bigger than this. Where is it now? Did it really get thrown out because of austerity?

 

2000 are directly impacted locally. Ten times that are impacted by connection. In the 5th richest country in the world, do we really hate our own people this much. I am rarely upset or angry in these situations but this time I'm furious. These people died, and there are scores of them, these people died because they have the audacity to have **** all and live in a rich London Borough. The wealthy incomers didn't want them there, the council didn't want them there and their safety was irrelevant.

 

It is time for action and real change, not public cover ups from the men and women in suits.

Well said sir.

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Why would he need to shift the blame? You would have to be an idiot to blame the government for this. I guess it is also the Tories fault that the flats were dangerously overcrowded too right?

He was essentially blaming the residents. Did you even read the article?

 

Here is a quote for you

 

"but many residents felt that we needed to get on with the installation of new hot water systems, new boilers and that trying to retrofit more would delay the building and that sprinklers aren't the answer.",

 

He is a snakey arsehole in the way he worded it as well.

 

I8, Tory or not how the feck can you even begin to defend individuals like this.

 

I am going to have to put you on ignore for a while again. You truly are the lowest of the low.

Edited by AlimOzturk
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Don't know why I'm doing this......Who's to blame then?

 

 

Well, like absolutely EVERY poster on this thread, I know little facts with regards to causes etc so it would not be appropriate for me to say.  However, what I am sick of is the ?blame government? with absolutely every single thing that happens in life.  It is quite ridiculous.  The government is accosted every second of every day.  People are always looking to blame the authorities.  A poor girl gets crushed by a mini van in Edinburgh and **** me it is the council?s fault.  A housing block goes up in flames and **** me it is those nasty Tories. Here are some key points that would not have helped the situation with those tower blocks:

 

?         Up to 4 times as many people living there as legally approved

?         Landlords obviously cost cutting

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Why would he need to shift the blame? You would have to be an idiot to blame the government for this. I guess it is also the Tories fault that the flats were dangerously overcrowded too right?

Not worth a reply but I will. Your choice of thread to troll is as horrific as your negativity .

 

No one knows yet who's to blame, so saying it's the tenants fault is wrong is it not?

 

Unless this Tory who you are so fond of is an expert?

 

Didn't think so. Take a day off I8 :vrface:

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Adam Murray

Serious question, but who would be in charge of safety in the building?

 

Would it be the government of the country, would it be the local council, would it be who ever owns the building, or is it individual landlords?

 

Are each individual resident responsible to put in place their own fire alarms?

 

Not looking to aim the blame at any one area, as it's far too early and i'm sure any inquiry will give us the answers needed.

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Well, like absolutely EVERY poster on this thread, I know little facts with regards to causes etc so it would not be appropriate for me to say. However, what I am sick of is the ?blame government? with absolutely every single thing that happens in life. It is quite ridiculous. The government is accosted every second of every day. People are always looking to blame the authorities. A poor girl gets crushed by a mini van in Edinburgh and **** me it is the council?s fault. A housing block goes up in flames and **** me it is those nasty Tories. Here are some key points that would not have helped the situation with those tower blocks:

 

? Up to 4 times as many people living there as legally approved

? Landlords obviously cost cutting

Right, so why is the guy in this article blaming the residents then?

 

That is what we are talking about it here. Stop deflecting.

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Well, like absolutely EVERY poster on this thread, I know little facts with regards to causes etc so it would not be appropriate for me to say. However, what I am sick of is the ?blame government?

Hes getting blamed for saying its the tenants fault, not blaming him or your party directly.

As you said, no one knows....so he's wrong to blame tenants or is that ok with you as he's a Tory?

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Right, so why is the guy in this article blaming the residents then?

 

That is what we are talking about it here. Stop deflecting.

:spoton:

 

What it's about.

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Right, so why is the guy in this article blaming the residents then?

 

That is what we are talking about it here. Stop deflecting.

 

 

It is innapropriate but it could be correct.  People are responsible for their own homes and lives.  However, please do not take this as me blaming them as it would be greatly unfounded.

Edited by i8hibsh
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It is innapropriate but it could be correct. People are responsible for their own homes and lives. However, please do not take this as me blaming them as it would be greatly unfounded.

In what way were those people responsible for their homes in the context of fire safety? Install their own sprinkler systems?

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