Jump to content

Entire high rise alight in London


Col1874

Recommended Posts

luckyBatistuta

Probably impractical in a built up area but couldn't they water bomb it using a plane or something.

Never thought about that, why not?

 

They've had problems getting the engines getting to the building.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 757
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Jambo-Jimbo

    76

  • maroonlegions

    54

  • Cade

    44

  • Mikey1874

    35

luckyBatistuta

My mate bought a place in there a few years ago with a tenant discount, just been stung for four grand for his share of the cost!

:wtf:

 

As if he didn't feel bad enough about stumping that up, now...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alwayssunnyingorgie

Probably impractical in a built up area but couldn't they water bomb it using a plane or something.

I don't think we have fire fighting planes, all it would really do is soak the roof anyway and possibly cause more damage and send concrete and windows down onto the firefighters below.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unknown user

:wtf:

 

As if he didn't feel bad enough about stumping that up, now...

In Scotland the insulation under the cladding has to be fireproof thankfully.

 

God it's horrible though eh? I lived in a 22 storey place in Salford, it's a terrifying thought, just awful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All roads lead to Gorgie

Never thought about that, why not?

 

They've had problems getting the engines getting to the building.

I was actually thinking about that earlier as you could see the hoses could only reach half way up. Maybe it was too dangerous to try if they thought there were still survivors higher up, plus I am not sure if this country has the right type of aircraft.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Probably impractical in a built up area but couldn't they water bomb it using a plane or something.

i would imagine that would only affect the fire on the outside of the building and most of the fire would probably be inside the building. So might not be that effective

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All roads lead to Gorgie

i would imagine that would only affect the fire on the outside of the building and most of the fire would probably be inside the building. So might not be that effective

It would only have worked very early on when the fire was spreading up the cladding and there is no way anything like that could be set up so quickly. It was just a thought but impractical I can see that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How is this fire still burning? I know its got the oxygen but what on earth can be left in there that is flammable that hasn't already been burnt?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last thing I would be doing in that situation is filming myself. WTF is up with people these days?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

fabienleclerq

Just watched an interview and a young guy was having a pop at the government/council whoever spent ?10m "improving" the tower, he happened to swear and the interviewer interupted him to appologise for the language.

 

He just lost his home and potentially friends/family, I'm sure we can cope with the f word.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

heartsfc_fan

Really harrowing stuff. Had a tear in my eye watching the 10 o'clock news. It'll be days before the fire is out as no way the building will be safe for fire crews to go into currently.

 

Did some extra checks around my own place before bed. Checked the smoke detectors and made sure the fire blanket in the kitchen was accessible. Even just ordered another smoke detector for the utility room on Amazon there. Height of paranoia I know...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

luckyBatistuta

I was actually thinking about that earlier as you could see the hoses could only reach half way up. Maybe it was too dangerous to try if they thought there were still survivors higher up, plus I am not sure if this country has the right type of aircraft.

Pretty sure it was a case of...'they couldn't' get to the higher floors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

luckyBatistuta

In Scotland the insulation under the cladding has to be fireproof thankfully.

God it's horrible though eh? I lived in a 22 storey place in Salford, it's a terrifying thought, just awful.

It really is, there must be folk all around the world who are panicking about the fact they are living in a high rise, after watching this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

luckyBatistuta

Did anyone see the guy on the news this morning who was going nuts. He kept swearing and saying that the fire was deliberate, as the other posh folk all around them and the council wanted them all out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All roads lead to Gorgie

How is this fire still burning? I know its got the oxygen but what on earth can be left in there that is flammable that hasn't already been burnt?

Possibly TVs and other larger plastic objects which would melt down but still burn on for some time. Just a guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Салатные палочки

News now saying the fire brigade have now checked most floors.  Police saying that the death toll remains at 12 but that it is likely to rise.  I know it's very unlikely but I hope that is doesn't rise and that most of the residents made it out on time.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

maroonlegions

Did anyone see the guy on the news this morning who was going nuts. He kept swearing and saying that the fire was deliberate, as the other posh folk all around them and the council wanted them all out.

  I did, he also said that it cost about 63,000 pounds to fix the lifts and he also said no way was ?10 million pound spent on that block .

 

Another thing he said that he and his mum have lived there for a long time and have never seen any fires.

 

Will add that i think the boy is just so full of sadness and anger.

 

Seems he is full of anger which is understandable, poor boy.

 

 

 

Edited by maroonlegions
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Escobar PHM

How is this fire still burning? I know its got the oxygen but what on earth can be left in there that is flammable that hasn't already been burnt?

Ruptured Gas main inside the building apparently

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ruptured gas main has since been isolated and the fire was put fully out at about 2am this morning.

 

Building is too dangerous for fire and rescue crews to go in and perform a fully detailed search. 

Specialists being called in to discuss how to shore up the building so that a recovery effort can be made.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Escobar PHM

Death toll up to 17 now and likely to rise further, Police have just announced.

Police declining to put a number on those missing as it would be too distressing. You have to assume its in 3 figures. Going to take several weeks to recover all of them. Imagine the condition those bodies will be in FFS what a horrible job for someone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jambo-Jimbo

Police declining to put a number on those missing as it would be too distressing. You have to assume its in 3 figures. Going to take several weeks to recover all of them. Imagine the condition those bodies will be in FFS what a horrible job for someone.

 

Part of the reason why the Police can't give an accurate number of the missing is that some of those who are missing have been reported as being missing multiple times, one man had been reported missing 46 times, so you can see why the Police don't want to put a figure out right now, until they have checked and re-checked and checked the lists again and again.

 

They will have an idea, I'm sure of that, as they only need to count the number of people who managed to get out themselves, who were rescued and those who are in hospital, take that number away from the estimated number of people who were staying there and that'll give you a rough idea of the number of the missing.

 

Sadly, I agree it possibly could be many dozens of people who didn't get out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I P Knightley

Part of the reason why the Police can't give an accurate number of the missing is that some of those who are missing have been reported as being missing multiple times, one man had been reported missing 46 times, so you can see why the Police don't want to put a figure out right now, until they have checked and re-checked and checked the lists again and again.

 

They will have an idea, I'm sure of that, as they only need to count the number of people who managed to get out themselves, who were rescued and those who are in hospital, take that number away from the estimated number of people who were staying there and that'll give you a rough idea of the number of the missing.

 

Sadly, I agree it possibly could be many dozens of people who didn't get out.

They can't afford to go public with numbers which are later questioned. They have to stick to what they know to be accurate at the point.

 

They can't accurately count the number who got out by themselves; a lot of those dispersed as soon as they were out. My son's mate and his sister went straight away to a relative's (or friend's); not far away but they didn't stop to check in with anyone - not sure there was anyone there yet. In fact, one of the boys aunties was on the TV in the morning pleading for information that the lad & his sister were safe, such was the confusion. 

 

They can only make a rough guess as to who was in the building before it went up. Muslim families move around to break the Ramadan fast - some may have gone to Grenfell; others from Grenfell may have gone elsewhere. Residents may have had others staying over for any reason and other residents could have stopped out with friends for the night. 

 

I suspect that the only way they'll have an accurate number is by counting as they find the bodies. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mac_fae_Gillie

Every interview seems to be with people from 7th or 8th floor which seems as far as Firefighters got..

my fear been unless people exited early by own means from higher floors there could be a huge death toll.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alwayssunnyingorgie

Every interview seems to be with people from 7th or 8th floor which seems as far as Firefighters got..

my fear been unless people exited early by own means from higher floors there could be a huge death toll.

I'm sure I heard they got to the 20th.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jambo-Jimbo

They can't afford to go public with numbers which are later questioned. They have to stick to what they know to be accurate at the point.

 

They can't accurately count the number who got out by themselves; a lot of those dispersed as soon as they were out. My son's mate and his sister went straight away to a relative's (or friend's); not far away but they didn't stop to check in with anyone - not sure there was anyone there yet. In fact, one of the boys aunties was on the TV in the morning pleading for information that the lad & his sister were safe, such was the confusion. 

 

They can only make a rough guess as to who was in the building before it went up. Muslim families move around to break the Ramadan fast - some may have gone to Grenfell; others from Grenfell may have gone elsewhere. Residents may have had others staying over for any reason and other residents could have stopped out with friends for the night. 

 

I suspect that the only way they'll have an accurate number is by counting as they find the bodies. 

 

Yes, that is why the Police are urging people who got out and are not in any of the rescue centres to get in touch with them so as they can be removed from the missing lists and be accounted for.

Edited by Jambo-Jimbo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ibrahim Tall

Genuine question, would bodies actually remain in the upper floors or could the fire have done enough damage that it's burned any trace and people will never be found?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alwayssunnyingorgie

Genuine question, would bodies actually remain in the upper floors or could the fire have done enough damage that it's burned any trace and people will never be found?

 

Would depend how hot the fire was and if it was hot enough for a long enough period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jambo-Jimbo

Genuine question, would bodies actually remain in the upper floors or could the fire have done enough damage that it's burned any trace and people will never be found?

 

A lot of the floors will have collapsed, so it will be a very difficult task in identifying bodies which will have been very badly burnt and then crushed amongst all the falling debris from the floors above.

 

I heard that specialist dogs are being brought in to help as presumably they can still detect human remains in these kind of circumstances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

maroonlegions

 

 

Would not surprise me in the least that those responsible for any future  possible "negligence" or breaches of health and safety will try and squirm out of of it.

 

Fire prevention expert Dr Jim Glockling has gone on the record on the BBC saying that there is enough evidence  from similar fires in France, Australia and Dubai ,(which has now banned this cladding), to show that there is unfolding a pattern and its to do with modern methods of construction.

 

 

These modern methods of construction involve, combustible material used in inner and outer insulation through out buildings and voids.

 

So not just the outer cladding it seems is problematic here.

 

This could be the reason why this tower block went up so quickly in such a short space of time, it was a potential  tinder box, sad , so sad and looking like it could have been avoided.

 

 

Also gone on the record on the BBC is the  former tenant association community officer  Grenfell Tower  Pilgrim Tucker.

 

She has gone on the record on the BBC also  and said that their real concerns for the safety of that block of flats was ignored by the contractors in 2015 ,(who were responsible for the refurbishment of Grenfell), and also  the "Grenfell Tenant Management" ignored them ,  in short both of them just did not listen to their concerns.

 

Pilgrim Tucker also stated that she and the "Grenfell Tenant Association"  were aware of "multiple problems" with the building including "potential fire safety problems" and that their concerns were just not listened to.

 

 It just makes me angry to think about that time when that wall collapsed at my wee girls school because of shoddy workmanship.Cutting corners to save a few bucks. :furious3:

If  that had happened a couple of hours later i shudder to think of what could have happened to some of the kids there at break time :evil3: .

Edited by maroonlegions
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jambo-Jimbo

Would not surprise me in the least that those responsible for any future  possible "negligence" or breaches of health and safety will try and squirm out of of it.

 

Fire prevention expert Dr Jim Glockling has gone on the record on the BBC saying that there is enough evidence  from similar fires in France, Australia and Dubai ,(which has now banned this cladding), to show that there is unfolding a pattern and its to do with modern methods of construction.

 

 

These modern methods of construction involve, combustible material used in inner and outer insulation through out buildings and voids.

 

So not just the outer cladding it seems is problematic here.

 

This could be the reason why this tower block went up so quickly in such a short space of time, it was a potential  tinder box, sad , so sad and looking like it could have been avoided.

 

 

Also gone on the record on the BBC is the  former tenant association community officer  Grenfell Tower  Pilgrim Tucker.

 

She has gone on the record on the BBC also  and said that their real concerns for the safety of that block of flats was ignored by the contractors in 2015 ,(who were responsible for the refurbishment of Grenfell), and also  the "Grenfell Tenant Management" ignored them ,  in short both of them just did not listen to their concerns.

 

Pilgrim Tucker also stated that she and the "Grenfell Tenant Association"  were aware of "multiple problems" with the building including "potential fire safety problems" and that their concerns were just not listened to.

 

 It just makes me angry to think about that time when that wall collapsed at my wee girls school because of shoddy workmanship.Cutting corners to save a few bucks. :furious3:

If  that had happened a couple of hours later i shudder to think of what could have happened to some of the kids there at break time :evil3: .

 

As is usually the case, it takes a tragedy to occur before either anyone in authority takes notice or for the fault to become known.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bindy Badgy

Genuine question, would bodies actually remain in the upper floors or could the fire have done enough damage that it's burned any trace and people will never be found?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3009553/

 

Looks like they should be able to identify people from dental records if the temperature stayed below 1100C. I've only skim read the journal (on my mobile at the moment) and I have no idea how hot it was in the flats.

Edited by Stokesy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure I heard they got to the 20th.

I think it was reported that they got there at about 9.45 in the morning. Edited by Lemongrab
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bindy Badgy

Every interview seems to be with people from 7th or 8th floor which seems as far as Firefighters got..

my fear been unless people exited early by own means from higher floors there could be a huge death toll.

I saw an interview with a lady that got out from the 17th. Her child woke her up and she ran as soon as she realised there was a fire. Stopping to get properly dressed could have been fatal in her case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lauriesrank

Really harrowing stuff. Had a tear in my eye watching the 10 o'clock news. It'll be days before the fire is out as no way the building will be safe for fire crews to go into currently.

 

Did some extra checks around my own place before bed. Checked the smoke detectors and made sure the fire blanket in the kitchen was accessible. Even just ordered another smoke detector for the utility room on Amazon there. Height of paranoia I know...

I tried watching it at dinner(tea) time.... managed 5 minutes before I Burst... Had to go into the kitchen.  Genuinely can't handle anything like this, however that was too much, still upset for the people.  And yes, all 5 of my smokies were checked last night.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jambo-Jimbo

The Government has announce that there will be a Full Public Inquiry into this.

 

Good, because this can't be allowed to happen ever again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

maroonlegions

As is usually the case, it takes a tragedy to occur before either anyone in authority takes notice or for the fault to become known.

 Agree JJ, hopefully there will be a serious change in current  legislation to prevent such  devastating tragedies happening again.

 

There should also be another look at changing  the law in regards to landlords and their responsibilities to tenants who rent their properties   .At present the law  in England is that landlords do NOT have to make sure that their properties for rent or those that are rented out are fit for human habitation??

 

That should be addressed i feel. 

Edited by maroonlegions
Link to comment
Share on other sites

maroonlegions

The Government has announce that there will be a Full Public Inquiry into this.

 

Good, because this can't be allowed to happen ever again.

 Good news. :2thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Салатные палочки

Reading some of the eyewitness accounts in the Guardian is horrific.  It's heartbreaking to think that the choice is to throw your child out the window or watch them die from smoke inhalation or burns.  It doesn't even bear thinking about.  

 

I couldn't begin to imagine the sadness and anger those involved are feeling.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jambo-Jimbo

Not only is the Government producing a full inquiry, but Sadiq Khan has ordered an additional independent inquiry.

 

Ticker tape banner on Sky News just saying that he's 'Demanded' an Independent Inquiry, so not so sure that he's ordered an Independent Inquiry, not sure that he has that authority TBH.

 

Seems to be an angry crowd gathering outside a church in which Sadiq Khan is in at the moment, could turn ugly, extra Police being drafted in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ibrahim Tall

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3009553/

 

Looks like they should be able to identify people from dental records if the temperature stayed below 1100C. I've only skim read the journal (on my mobile at the moment) and I have no idea how hot it was in the flats.

Reassuring in some way, atleast the families of those missing might some closure if the worst has happened.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Daily Mail online reporting it was allegedly a faulty fridge on the 4th floor. Named and photographed the poor sod too. Not as if he meant it.

Edited by CostaJambo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watching the scrum with Sadiq Khan there are understandably some extremely angry people.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if turns to violence at some point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bindy Badgy

Person has to have been to a dentist to have dental records.

 

I was thinking about this earlier. It isn't hard to imagine an elderly immigrant from a working class family not bothering to get his or her teeth checked out as it costs money that can be spent on other things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SwindonJambo

Daily Mail online reporting it was allegedly a faulty fridge on the 4th floor. Named and photographed the poor sod too. Not as if he meant it.

Are you honestly suprised by the depths that rag will stoop to?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...