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Francis Albert

I noticed that Donald Trump has come out and said "I won't call these people monsters, because they will like that. Instead, I will call them losers because that's what they are" (bit of paraphrasing).

 

Whilst I don't agree with him in a lot of things, this is exactly what these sub-human cretins are.

 

Losers.

Does Trump or anyone really think these people care what people CALL them?
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Escobar PHM

I don't think the problem is importing terrorists. I think the problem lies in the exporting of wahhibism by the Saudis. It's taught in mosques, it's taught in "faith" schools (something that imo is incompatible with education and should be strictly separated) and it is an uncompromising, totalitarian vision of Islam. There is also plenty of evidence that the Saudis fund underground movements linked to terror groups.

 

And what do we do about it, do we pressure them or threaten sanctions? No, we queue up to buy their oil and prostrate ourselves to them in order sell them weaponry.

Saudi Arabia is central to this whole issue. A state sponsoring terrorism and shielding, hosting, spawning and protecting terrorists, practising inhumane treatment of its civilian population including public beheadings for minor offences.Protected and shielded by a succession of US administrations. If it didn't have oil, thus enormous riches and strategic influence in the region it would have been wiped off the face of the planet the day after 9/11.

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Does Trump or anyone really think these people care what people CALL them?

No, but that's not the point.

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Whilst it remains a taboo to criticise religion / Islam.

 

Whilst it remains a taboo to acknowledge that Islam is in need of a massive reformation from within.

 

We have absolutely no chance of changing anything anytime soon.

 

We can't even have a grown up conversation about it. It's utterly pathetic.

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Francis Albert

No, but that's not the point.

In that case, whatever the point is it is a pretty irrelevant one. I am pretty sure the families of the victims and the injured will not feel better because the perpetrators were not terrorists just "losers". And the perpetrators will not give a toss either way.
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Jambo 4 Ever

You can be incredibly naive at times.

It's probably as high as 95%+ of attacks carried out in the UK are carried out by UK citizens or people who have been living here for many many years.

Just how are you going to stop them coming in, when they live here already.

Will agree to disagree then.  I know others agree with me too

 

I said to stop more coming in 'til it is sorted - that's all

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Jambo 4 Ever

Whilst it remains a taboo to criticise religion / Islam.

 

Whilst it remains a taboo to acknowledge that Islam is in need of a massive reformation from within.

 

We have absolutely no chance of changing anything anytime soon.

 

We can't even have a grown up conversation about it. It's utterly pathetic.

This, sadly

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Does Trump or anyone really think these people care what people CALL them?

 

True, the 'c u next tuesday' is in a million pieces. Doubt he's fussed

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Will agree to disagree then.  I know others agree with me too

 

I said to stop more coming in 'til it is sorted - that's all

BBC confirming the attacker was British born. How does that sit with your "stop more coming in" argument?

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In that case, whatever the point is it is a pretty irrelevant one. I am pretty sure the families of the victims and the injured will not feel better because the perpetrators were not terrorists just "losers". And the perpetrators will not give a toss either way.

Seriously, what the **** are you trying to prove here?

 

People have died because some idiot decided to attack innocent people, and you're trying to take some moral high ground on a football forum? Should we just ignore it all, and not bother speaking out against it?

 

Honestly man, get a grip.

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Whilst it remains a taboo to criticise religion / Islam.

 

Whilst it remains a taboo to acknowledge that Islam is in need of a massive reformation from within.

 

We have absolutely no chance of changing anything anytime soon.

 

We can't even have a grown up conversation about it. It's utterly pathetic.

I've read a bit about the Chinese treating religions as a cult. Now I may be naive here and I'm sure someone can elaborate further but they do seem up until now immune from terror attacks. They may be on to something.

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Passages which are completely ignored by the overwhelming vast majority of non radical practising muslims because the overwhelming vast majority of non radical practising muslims finds them abhorrent and irrelevant.

 

I've met or heard v few practising Muslim do this. Maajid Nawaz is one that comes to mind but for most you get 'out of context' , whataboutery or translation canard. And its not an easy thing to do lest u open yourself up to apostacy charge - since Quran is taught as inerrant and Hadith is accounts of the most perfect man/ messenger.

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Jambo 4 Ever

BBC confirming the attacker was British born. How does that sit with your "stop more coming in" argument?

Where is the link to that?

Even so, His parents may not have been - so we need to stop it at the root!

Not looking for an argument to be honest - just mine and many many others opinion

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Where is the link to that?

Even so, His parents may not have been - so we need to stop it at the root!

Not looking for an argument to be honest - just mine and many many others opinion

Look for yourself......................oh I don't know maybe the BBC website ffs.

 

I wont be interacting with you anymore as I think you are at it and frankly that's disgusting on a thread like this.

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Ryan Jarman

Where is the link to that?

Even so, His parents may not have been - so we need to stop it at the root!

Not looking for an argument to be honest - just mine and many many others opinion

 

So chuck everyone out that wasn't born here? That easy & all this will stop? :lol: 

 

Maybe we should gather and keep them all in wee camps until we get 'them' out? Maybe number them with tatoos? 

 

Away and fling shite at the moon

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Where is the link to that?

Even so, His parents may not have been - so we need to stop it at the root!

Not looking for an argument to be honest - just mine and many many others opinion

 

His parents have done nothing wrong... He's made his own decisions

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loveofthegame

8 year old lassie from Leyland

 

As a father to a baby girl, this absolutely breaks my heart.

 

The wee thing was probably as excited as the night before Christmas in getting to go to a concert for a big pop star. Until the split second the bomb went off she was probably on cloud 9.

 

Really, truly devastating.

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Jambo 4 Ever

Look for yourself......................oh I don't know maybe the BBC website ffs.

 

I wont be interacting with you anymore as I think you are at it and frankly that's disgusting on a thread like this.

Unless you read elsewhere - the BBC report that:

"PM May says police believe they know the attacker's identity but won't reveal it for now"

No indication of where they are from at all!

Anyway, this is not the point

 

this was a horrific thing to have happened, and thoughts are with the family and friends, and the people of Manchester at this time.

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Riddley Walker

Unless you read elsewhere - the BBC report that:

"PM May says police believe they know the attacker's identity but won't reveal it for now"

No indication of where they are from at all!

What's your point, slaver? Even if it's not been confirmed it is highly likely to be the case.

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Pans Jambo

I've read a bit about the Chinese treating religions as a cult. Now I may be naive here and I'm sure someone can elaborate further but they do seem up until now immune from terror attacks. They may be on to something.

Perhaps the Chinese dont bomb foreign housing complexes from afar or invade countries for their resources. Just saying, the west continually poking their nose into other countries affairs and then murdering their citizens (or selling arms to support such causes) can usually have a bit of a negative response eventually.

 

Edit: Not that this has anything to do with the events in Manchester. Seems the barsteward was British born and not a foreign national.

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Jambo 4 Ever

Perhaps the Chinese dont bomb foreign housing complexes from afar or invade countries for their resources. Just saying, the west continually poking their nose into other countries affairs and then murdering their citizens (or selling arms to support such causes) can usually have a bit of a negative response eventually.

fair point... but what else would you suggest?

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Rabbie_Burns

Why SKY still send Kay Burley to these atrocities to report live at the scene, I still find hard to imagine.

 

Might as well send a vulture.

A truly loathsome individual indeed

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Pans Jambo

fair point... but what else would you suggest?

Do what Switzerland does. Nowt.

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8 year old announced dead. heartbreaking

8 year old? :(

 

Go **** yourselves ISIS, you horrible,cowardly,evil,scummy *****

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doctor jambo

So to recoup

 

Apart from the 100,000,000 or so people killed for various causes my non Muslims in the last 100 years alone

 

Muslims are by far the worst cause the globe has ever witnessed

 

And the guys on here proposing an ethnic solution are most definitely not prejudiced, blinkered or racist

 

 

And the fact the Bible happily waffles on about genocide, incest, patricide and killing gays SHOULD if they are right about the Koran mean that all whiteys should be expelled from the middle east as head banging radicals appears to have been totally missed

 

It is the fault of 2 billion people that every few months one loony does something despicable

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Perhaps the Chinese dont bomb foreign housing complexes from afar or invade countries for their resources. Just saying, the west continually poking their nose into other countries affairs and then murdering their citizens (or selling arms to support such causes) can usually have a bit of a negative response eventually.

 

Edit: Not that this has anything to do with the events in Manchester. Seems the barsteward was British born and not a foreign national.

The little piece of shit that did this hasn't suffered in any way from anyone's foreign policy. It chose to kill little kids due to its lack of intelligence and zero empathy for other human beings. ***** like him make life that bit harder for refugees already suffering prejudice from the places you describe.
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Jambo-Jimbo

Where is the link to that?

Even so, His parents may not have been - so we need to stop it at the root!

Not looking for an argument to be honest - just mine and many many others opinion

 

Ok Sherlock how the hell do you know what somebody's kids are going to turn out to be like, 20 odd years before they are even born? 

But let's not take the chance, let's just ban everybody from coming in, what is it, keep Britain for the British, is that what your saying?

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Francis Albert

So to recoup

 

Apart from the 100,000,000 or so people killed for various causes my non Muslims in the last 100 years alone

 

Muslims are by far the worst cause the globe has ever witnessed

 

And the guys on here proposing an ethnic solution are most definitely not prejudiced, blinkered or racist

 

 

And the fact the Bible happily waffles on about genocide, incest, patricide and killing gays SHOULD if they are right about the Koran mean that all whiteys should be expelled from the middle east as head banging radicals appears to have been totally missed

 

It is the fault of 2 billion people that every few months one loony does something despicable

Now you are just making up opinions, or quoting the opinions of one or two loonies, to knock down.

 

Do you think the Muslim religion has something to do with the current murderous attacks by Muslims or not?

 

No-one is denying worse things happened in the name of Christianity and other faiths. No-one (at any rate no-one with half a brain) is denying that for example the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the supposedly civilising mission of colonialism and its attendant slave trade, the Holocaust etc etc etc had something to do with religion and were not just perpetrated by a few losers and inadequates.

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Pans Jambo

Like they did with the nazis.

Come on now. We are not talking about Nazi Germany. The USA have been invading and meddling in the middle East and we happily trot along and help. No wonder we are targets. My point was why are we always at the front of the queue after America when it comes to bombing foreign lands?

 

As I said, the news have stated the coward from last night was British born. My original reply was answering a question about China not getting attacked.

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So to recoup

 

Apart from the 100,000,000 or so people killed for various causes my non Muslims in the last 100 years alone

 

Muslims are by far the worst cause the globe has ever witnessed

 

And the guys on here proposing an ethnic solution are most definitely not prejudiced, blinkered or racist

 

 

And the fact the Bible happily waffles on about genocide, incest, patricide and killing gays SHOULD if they are right about the Koran mean that all whiteys should be expelled from the middle east as head banging radicals appears to have been totally missed

 

It is the fault of 2 billion people that every few months one loony does something despicable

 

So no one is to look at what causes this crime against children in case we offend.

And we cannot say something is wrong because people did bad things before

 

Unbelievably this is where we are .

Its why children were allowed to be repeatedly raped because your argument wins the day.

 

Young muslims are being taught to hate in supposedly respected islamic schools in this country.

If it makes me a racist because i point the finger at racists then what a truly upside down world we live.

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Pans Jambo

The little piece of shit that did this hasn't suffered in any way from anyone's foreign policy. It chose to kill little kids due to its lack of intelligence and zero empathy for other human beings. ***** like him make life that bit harder for refugees already suffering prejudice from the places you describe.

I dont disagree with a word of that mate. The truth is that we have a hand in creating the refugee problems from some of these countries in the first place.

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Jambo-Jimbo

Unfortunately, whatever Trump's intentions, the speech will be seen and is being seen as an endorsement of one branch of Muslim terrorism (Shia) over another branch (Sunni).

 

Agreed, it was unfortunate that he then went on to condemn Iran in the very same speech, thus implying that Shia's were terrorists.

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I've read a bit about the Chinese treating religions as a cult. Now I may be naive here and I'm sure someone can elaborate further but they do seem up until now immune from terror attacks. They may be on to something.

They're not immune they have their own problems with Islam.

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/03/china-communist-party-hardens-rhetoric-islam-170312171857797.html  Amongst others .

 

 

China's ruling Communist Party has hardened its rhetoric on Islam, with top officials making repeated warnings about the spectre of global religious "extremism" seeping into the country, and the need to protect traditional Chinese identity.

Sharhat Ahan, a top party official in Xinjiang, on Sunday became the latest official from a predominantly Muslim region to warn political leaders gathered in Beijing that the "international anti-terror situation" is destabilising China

 

Officials from Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, which has an ethnic Hui population that is predominantly Muslim, warned similarly this past week about the perils of "Islamic extremism".

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Really not the time to be fighting amongst ourselves guys,as well as the fear, injuries and deaths these organisations really love when their actions cause discord amongst ourselves.  Internment camps, and what I saw damage to property of the families of longstanding immigrants German and Italian did not achieve anything in the forties, other than an atmosphere of fear and distrust, sad to say but open conflict was what brought that particular reign of terror to heel. I am long past creating the strategy, but do believe going to where ISIS, et al are and destroying them there is the best solution, no quarter or humanity offered, live by the sword die by the sword. Use the same tools of death, destruction, and terror they do to achieve the purpose. They want it they got it.

 

The loss of someone close is one of our greatest sorrows, in some cases because of age , illness it is no easier but is to be expected, when it is someone young, full of life and with a life to live it is the most awful thing that can happen, I watched the coverage last night, the time difference made it early evening for me, I did my viewing with a lump in my throat being so sorry for those waiting for news of their beloved ones, and for the so unfortunate for whom the news was the worst, I have tried to remove the word hate from my lexicon, but there are times when there is no other word to describe your emotions and innermost feelings,

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As a father to a baby girl, this absolutely breaks my heart.

 

The wee thing was probably as excited as the night before Christmas in getting to go to a concert for a big pop star. Until the split second the bomb went off she was probably on cloud 9.

 

Really, truly devastating.

 

Totally agree.  ****ing unimaginable to begin thinking. 

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I dont disagree with a word of that mate. The truth is that we have a hand in creating the refugee problems from some of these countries in the first place.

Didn't see your edit apologies.
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Come on now. We are not talking about Nazi Germany. The USA have been invading and meddling in the middle East and we happily trot along and help. No wonder we are targets. My point was why are we always at the front of the queue after America when it comes to bombing foreign lands?

 

As I said, the news have stated the coward from last night was British born. My original reply was answering a question about China not getting attacked.

My response was more to do with holding up the ignoble Switzerland as an example.
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Pans Jambo

My response was more to do with holding up the ignoble Switzerland as an example.

Fair enough.

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Jambo-Jimbo

I am long past creating the strategy, but do believe going to where ISIS, et al are and destroying them there is the best solution, no quarter or humanity offered, live by the sword die by the sword. Use the same tools of death, destruction, and terror they do to achieve the purpose. They want it they got it.

 

 

 

This part of your post reminds me what an old guy I knew told me once.

Something about a terrorist attack came on the news, this would have been late 80's or so, anyway you had the usual Politicians coming out saying that the terrorists would be hunted down and brought to justice etc etc, which this old guy just burst out laughing at, and then he said this or as best as I can remember.

 

There is only one way to deal with terrorists and that is to become a bloody bigger terrorist, show no mercy towards them and take them out before they can plant their bomb, he added, justice, yeh a bullet in the back of the head is the only justice they deserve as you can't reason with or negotiate with people who have a death wish.

 

It was only after his death that I learnt from his daughter that he was an SAS trooper, so he may well have known what he was talking about.

 

I'm not saying I agree with what this guy said, but I'm not disagreeing either.

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Jaap's Sigh

While we can say that it is a very small minority of Muslims who preach hatred and wish ill on non-believers, many Muslim people who think of themselves as moderate still believe in the more extreme teachings of the Quran.

 

Saw this a few weeks ago and it opened my eyes a bit.

 

Not sure if a pinch of salt is required with this...

 

https://youtu.be/4D5HtLb9Tw0

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This part of your post reminds me what an old guy I knew told me once.

Something about a terrorist attack came on the news, this would have been late 80's or so, anyway you had the usual Politicians coming out saying that the terrorists would be hunted down and brought to justice etc etc, which this old guy just burst out laughing at, and then he said this or as best as I can remember.

 

There is only one way to deal with terrorists and that is to become a bloody bigger terrorist, show no mercy towards them and take them out before they can plant their bomb, he added, justice, yeh a bullet in the back of the head is the only justice they deserve as you can't reason with or negotiate with people who have a death wish.

 

It was only after his death that I learnt from his daughter that he was an SAS trooper, so he may well have known what he was talking about.

 

I'm not saying I agree with what this guy said, but I'm not disagreeing either.

 

Human rights wouldn't allow this these days

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maroonlegions

Cowardly inhumane fecking vermin low life scum  **********..

 

 

Big heart felt message of condolences to all those who have lost a loved one, cannot  imagine what kind of emotions they are going through just now,.

 

Gave my kids a extra special hug when they came home from school today, mind you my 13 year old son gave me his usual look of "aye right dad".

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Jambo 4 Ever

While we can say that it is a very small minority of Muslims who preach hatred and wish ill on non-believers, many Muslim people who think of themselves as moderate still believe in the more extreme teachings of the Quran.

 

Saw this a few weeks ago and it opened my eyes a bit.

 

Not sure if a pinch of salt is required with this...

 

https://youtu.be/4D5HtLb9Tw0

scary stuff

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Jambo-Jimbo

Human rights wouldn't allow this these days

 

Don't think they cared much about Human rights back in the 60's & 70's, besides who was going to report them and to whom?

Nowadays they have helmet & body cams and there's always some shyster lawyer waiting just to stick the boot in as well.

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Jaap's Sigh

scary stuff

It is a bit scary, but I think the demographic in the room (mainly young males) means we can't apply this 'extremism' across the whole religion obviously. However it does show where many young Muslim males views are in the scheme of things. They don't think they hold extreme views in any shape or form.

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Escobar PHM

I've met or heard v few practising Muslim do this. Maajid Nawaz is one that comes to mind but for most you get 'out of context' , whataboutery or translation canard. And its not an easy thing to do lest u open yourself up to apostacy charge - since Quran is taught as inerrant and Hadith is accounts of the most perfect man/ messenger.

As a western infidel who works for and with practising muslims, I can honestly say not one of them has tried to murder me.

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doctor jambo

It is a bit scary, but I think the demographic in the room (mainly young males) means we can't apply this 'extremism' across the whole religion obviously. However it does show where many young Muslim males views are in the scheme of things. They don't think they hold extreme views in any shape or form.

as a young white educated male I used to sing about killing catholics

I was also pretty racist and homophobic

I am now none of the above

And just because I held certain views did not mean I hurt anyone at the time, nor would I

All of these things were educated out of me as I moved from a small community to the big wide world

even as a middle class white kid I needed integrated into society

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