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Indy Ref Part Deux


Armageddon

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Continually calling this shit until you get your way is not democracy.

 

I am utterly ashamed to be Scottish.

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:yas: Nicola. About time.

 

Bad news if yer a yoony royalist tory though! Tick tock!

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What's the point?

It's practically the same people going to vote again and the financial outlook now looks as bleak as it was before.

Old people still remember Britain as a positive thing, they like the queen and they don't like foreigners.

They're not suddenly going to think "**** all that" and vote Yes.

As if your average simple Scottish 45-65yr old and 65yr old + is going to volountarily choose to use the Euro.

The whole thing looks like a massive waste of time and energy. I wouldn't be surprised if the result is even more tilted towards No this time around.

If I still lived in Scotland, I'd vote Yes but there's no way it'll happen.

I worked at the IGMM at the time of the last one. Massively populated by EU nationals who voted NO because they believed their residency and right to work here could be affected by a YES vote. After speaking to many of them in the aftermath of BREXIT, it appears most of them would now vote YES. That is one group who may not vote the same way.

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Indy2 will then lead to indy3, and repeat.

 

Wrong. Indy2 (as you call it) will lead to independence and therefore no need for further debate/vote.

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Disagree.

 

Same rules, only those people of whatever nationality resident in Scotland should be eligible to vote. IMO

My family and I live in England because of my job, I was born in Edinburgh, my Wife in Greenock and my Son in Elgin, we will move back to Scotland in the future, why should we not be allowed a vote?
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Continually calling this shit until you get your way is not democracy.

 

I am utterly ashamed to be Scottish.

Good.

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Good.

 

I know only the SNP votes are important and all 'no' votes will be disregarded by Nats but hopefully this will put it to bed for good.

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Seymour M Hersh

Even the pro SNP Herald are suggesting that 56% of us do not want another referendum. How about education hen?

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What's the point?

It's practically the same people going to vote again and the financial outlook now looks as bleak as it was before.

Old people still remember Britain as a positive thing, they like the queen and they don't like foreigners.

They're not suddenly going to think "**** all that" and vote Yes.

As if your average simple Scottish 45-65yr old and 65yr old + is going to volountarily choose to use the Euro.

The whole thing looks like a massive waste of time and energy. I wouldn't be surprised if the result is even more tilted towards No this time around.

If I still lived in Scotland, I'd vote Yes but there's no way it'll happen.

Said pretty much the same to my mate in Linlithgow.

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North Berwick Jambo

Britain is a joke, Brexit is a joke and the Tories are a joke! I hope all the older ones who voted no the last time after all the threats and promises from Westminster don't fall for the same shit again. Would an Independent Scotland as a member of the EU using the Euro really be the end of the world for us? Or do people honestly believe being ruled by London after Brexit would be much better?

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Placid Casual

Continually calling this shit until you get your way is not democracy.

 

I am utterly ashamed to be Scottish.

 

Nonsense, as usual.

 

The democratic process has been followed, i.e. the SNP stood and won on a manifesto that said they would call a referendum if there is a "significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014".

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I worked at the IGMM at the time of the last one. Massively populated by EU nationals who voted NO because they believed their residency and right to work here could be affected by a YES vote. After speaking to many of them in the aftermath of BREXIT, it appears most of them would now vote YES. That is one group who may not vote the same way.

 

Can't see there being enough of them to swing the votes needed.

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Continually calling this shit until you get your way is not democracy.

 

I am utterly ashamed to be Scottish.

 

Don't worry, you're not alone in being ashamed you're Scottish.

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Ibrahim Tall

The "re-running until you get the result you want" "this isn't democracy" hysteria is brainless.

 

The SNP included independence in its manifesto, people voted for said party. That's a perfect example of democracy in action. It would less democratic to ignore it.

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Even the pro SNP Herald are suggesting that 56% of us do not want another referendum. How about education hen?

Face it. It is happening.

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My family and I live in England because of my job, I was born in Edinburgh, my Wife in Greenock and my Son in Elgin, we will move back to Scotland in the future, why should we not be allowed a vote?

 

Because you don't live there.  Sorry if that sounds harsh.

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The basic issue is it is likely we won't know what Brexit will look like by end of next year.

 

But Yes campaign want to win and SNP polling must suggest they think they can win from a new campaign.

 

Getting Independence is what it is about. Nothing to do with Brexit which just gives an excuse.

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The "re-running until you get the result you want" "this isn't democracy" hysteria is brainless.

 

The SNP included independence in its manifesto, people voted for said party. That's a perfect example of democracy in action. It would less democratic to ignore it.

 

 

You know the majority of people in this country do not want another ref yeah?

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Can't see there being enough of them to swing the votes needed.

Hard to say. We have a lot of Polish, Greek and Spanish in Edinburgh. I think the more interesting question is whether or not they will be allowed to vote this time.

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luckyBatistuta

And so it begins, just had my first argument over this. Not looking forward to all this nonsense again.

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Scotland voted No. We then watched as English Votes for English Laws unfolded. Then every promise made during the referendum was systematically broken.

 

Brexit happened, we put forward a position representing the majority of people within Scotland, this has been ignored and widely dismissed by the Tories.

 

Second referendum was inevitable.

Second defeat hopefully too

 

Then what?

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Wrong. Indy2 (as you call it) will lead to independence and therefore no need for further debate/vote.

Unlikely, but we shall see.

 

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

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Nookie Bear

My family and I live in England because of my job, I was born in Edinburgh, my Wife in Greenock and my Son in Elgin, we will move back to Scotland in the future, why should we not be allowed a vote?

Because it has nothing to do with you.

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Ibrahim Tall

You know the majority of people in this country do not want another ref yeah?

Then perhaps as part of democracy they should have expressed this opinion at the ballot box instead of voting for the SNP?

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Then perhaps as part of democracy they should have expressed this opinion at the ballot box instead of voting for the SNP?

 

 

They did express it (VERY clearly) in the ballot box, 2 and a half years ago.

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I'd imagine that a fair few people who voted for Brexit will also be No voters.

I just can't see there being enough people who are that bothered about Brexit that they'll agree to using the Euro, especially in the older age groups.

The best chance we have for Independence is waiting 20 years until a lot of today's pensioners are dead and young Scots who couldn't give a shit about Britain are old enough to vote.

I'm sure independence will happen but this just seems to soon, even more shaky financially and a massive waste of time and resources.

I have absolutely zero confidence in Scottish No voting people suddenly voting Yes and agreeing to use the Euro.

 

 

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Nookie Bear

Nonsense, as usual.

 

The democratic process has been followed, i.e. the SNP stood and won on a manifesto that said they would call a referendum if there is a "significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014".

But that implies that the SNP are literally a one-policy party and in the same league as UKIP.

 

There were other reasons for voting SNP in the election,,other than Indy 2

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Ibrahim Tall

They did, 2 and a half years ago.

Then voted for them in elections afterwards with a manifesto stating they'd have another indyref...

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Scotland voted No. We then watched as English Votes for English Laws unfolded. Then every promise made during the referendum was systematically broken.

 

Brexit happened, we put forward a position representing the majority of people within Scotland, this has been ignored and widely dismissed by the Tories.

 

Second referendum was inevitable.

Thats it in a nutshell. 

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Hard to say. We have a lot of Polish, Greek and Spanish in Edinburgh. I think the more interesting question is whether or not they will be allowed to vote this time.

 

Why would they not be allowed?

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Cruyff Turn

I'll vote yes. Did last time as well. Not a SNP supporter though.

 

For me the UK is finished. It is past its sell by date by about 100 years.

 

An unelected head of state, an unelected house of lords, an unelected PM and in Scotland, a Tory party who has no mandate to govern yet treats Scotland like a poor relation.

 

Also the suggestion that Scotland isn't economically viable as an Independent country is utterly absurd and offensive in the extreme.

 

Hopefully people will have some guts and tick the yes box this time.

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Ibrahim Tall

Why would they not be allowed?

Because it's fairly guaranteed how they'll vote, the U.K. Government was more than happy last time as they knew the 'staying in the EU' argument favoured it's side.

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AlphonseCapone

If you're a politics nerd like myself, the next two years isn't half going to be interesting.

 

Keen to hear the plans on currency, economy etc as you have to think they've got this shit nailed down after last time.

 

I think you have to blinkered to deny they've a democratic mandate for this though. Their manifesto was clear and brexit is a material change. All SNP supporters might not be independence supporters but you are naive or stupid if you think your vote to them isn't a vote for this current position. You can't pick and choose the parts of a manifesto your vote goes towards. Never mind that with the greens there is a majority support for this position within the Scottish parliament.

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Why would they not be allowed?

The question will be posed. Just wait and see.

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I'd imagine that a fair few people who voted for Brexit will also be No voters.

I just can't see there being enough people who are that bothered about Brexit that they'll agree to using the Euro, especially in the older age groups.

The best chance we have for Independence is waiting 20 years until a lot of today's pensioners are dead and young Scots who couldn't give a shit about Britain are old enough to vote.

I'm sure independence will happen but this just seems to soon, even more shaky financially and a massive waste of time and resources.

I have absolutely zero confidence in Scottish No voting people suddenly voting Yes and agreeing to use the Euro.

 

I would say that a lot of Brexit voters that the SNP shunned up here voted "Yes" last time, so the SNP have probably lost these people this time.  In terms of percentage I could see that being at least 10%, which would be significant.

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Placid Casual

And so it begins, just had my first argument over this. Not looking forward to all this nonsense again.

 

This is what I'm not looking forward to ? the division. I'm going to keep quiet and just cast my vote this time I think.

 

Worth remembering though that this (the second referendum) is ultimately happening because of internal divisions in the Conservative party.

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AlphonseCapone

And illogical.

Tbf, the vote has to be 100% the same criteria as last time or it will cause untold hassle.

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Fantastic, there's Jimmy Krankie's excuse to not actually govern the country for the next 18 months!

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Triffic. Who'll get the blame this time? Pensioners, Scottish cringe or English people living in Scotland?

 

 

Wanna be Englanders this time I think.

 

 

hope over fear

 

:facepalm:

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