AlphonseCapone Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Try quoting the original post rather than taking a post out of context. You are a third-rate poster who has gone for the childish approach to attack the man rather than debate a post in context. I have never added a poster to the ignore list but you could be the first. I quoted you word for word. Getting personal because you've made a complete arse of yourself isn't something that bothers me. Neither is you blocking me. You don't like the truth then go ahead and block me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By The Light.. Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Ah the old council tax issue. Criticised for freezing it, criticised for unfreezing it. Also, the SNP didn't raise it, the council did. Im not sure that council did the top 4 band thing, that was MSPs http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37837010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 This thread is how Scotland will be from now on. Well done SNP!! You have made us hate each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Im not sure that council did the top 4 band thing, that was MSPs http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37837010 Actually you are right on that, I forgot they increased the higher bands. Still though, they were criticised for freezing it then criticised for unfreezing it. Can't please everyone I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 That seems to hinge on being part of the single market. I thought the SNP were looking at not joing the EU now? I'd need it explained to me what we are joining, if we are looking at the Euro and if we can actually join. As things stand it's all up in the air for me. If we want to talk about markets, we do more trade with the rest of the UK right now. A quick Google says we did ?49.8 billion there and ?12.3 billion with the EU. This simple argument is already blowing a hole in this strategy IMO. How much will it cost us to trade with the UK? The clamour to wrestle back control of our affairs then hand them over again puzzles me. Why does independence go into reverse just over the English Channel? Amazing how everyone who quotes the export numbers always miss out what Scotland imports from the UK. ?13b more than they spend on us so that's ?13b we all save from the off if they don't want to trade. We'll just buy and sell to someone else it's there loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 I can't believe we are going to go through all this again within a few short years. I voted no last time but won't bother voting at all this time. I'm sick of it. The way people conducted themselves last time out was nothing short of disgusting and that's both sides of the argument. You can see it creeping in on here already and I'll bet for sure it's started with gusto on other social media platforms. This is now the only such platform I have an account for. Deleted Facebook a week or so after the last referendum due to the abuse given out by a large element of the so called "45". "Ashamed to know you" "you can't seriously say your Scottish anymore" were a few of the more light hearted comments. What will be will be and good luck to whoever prevails but I'm out. Things will be much more rabid this time around. This thread will probably not last much more than a few days judging by the apparent tactic of some posters of attacking the man not the ball. Social media has already started badly with some people trying to force their Indy 2 views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 The SNP are a cult. Far too much politics, in fact most of their MSPs are career politicians who offer nothing but political point scoring. Delivering nothing except a 17.5% rise in my council tax and more income tax. If they did something serious like the war cry "its Scotlands oil" and invade Norway and take all the oil cash but ffs what are they offering, freedom from westminster, whoopdee do, freedom to do what? You should be grateful to the SNP they must have saved you a fortune by freezing the council tax for so long. Some people are never happy. BTW where do you live to have a 17.5% increase in your CT ? Holyrood Palace? If you have a big house you can well afford it so I have no sympathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 I thought it was an ok piece. You would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie1874 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 The SNP are a cult. Far too much politics, in fact most of their MSPs are career politicians who offer nothing but political point scoring. Delivering nothing except a 17.5% rise in my council tax and more income tax. If they did something serious like the war cry "its Scotlands oil" and invade Norway and take all the oil cash but ffs what are they offering, freedom from westminster, whoopdee do, freedom to do what? You can't dare criticize the SNP on here for council tax. It's not if the came in with promises of abolishing an unfair system saying that tinkering with bands won't resolve it. Yes they froze it, and during that time should have been looking at changes, instead the solution, drastically bump up the top end and create an even more unfair post code lottery of a system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 You can't dare criticize the SNP on here for council tax. It's not if the came in with promises of abolishing an unfair system saying that tinkering with bands won't resolve it. Yes they froze it, and during that time should have been looking at changes, instead the solution, drastically bump up the top end and create an even more unfair post code lottery of a system. You don't dare criticise them for council tax on here is that a joke? Haven't you been on here long? Have you missed the enormous SNP nonsense thread? I've seen threads about literally anything turning into SNP bad they were getting the blame for brexit yesterday[emoji1]I'm not a fan of theirs btw but to say they get no stick is well wide of the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie1874 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 You don't dare criticise them for council tax on here is that a joke? Haven't you been on here long? Have you missed the enormous SNP nonsense thread? I've seen threads about literally anything turning into SNP bad they were getting the blame for brexit yesterday[emoji1] I'm not a fan of theirs btw but to say they get no stick is well wide of the mark. By on here I meant this thread, if you scroll back pages, there was the usual posts about failed promises from Westminster etc, but it wasn't liked when similar failed promises by SNP were pointed out. And I didn't say they get no stick, I said don't mention council tax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 By on here I meant this thread, if you scroll back pages, there was the usual posts about failed promises from Westminster etc, but it wasn't liked when similar failed promises by SNP were pointed out. And I didn't say they get no stick, I said don't mention council tax They've had plenty stick for council tax. Stick for not changing it despite Salmond trying to abolish it years ago. Stick for freezing it and now stick for raising it. I'm no SNP voter or fan of theirs but they've copped plenty for council tax I reckon. It's a system that needs reform but nobody has done much with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 They've had plenty stick for council tax. Stick for not changing it despite Salmond trying to abolish it years ago. Stick for freezing it and now stick for raising it. I'm no SNP voter or fan of theirs but they've copped plenty for council tax I reckon. It's a system that needs reform but nobody has done much with it. What would you replace it with? To me it seems OK but would be interested to hear alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 What would you replace it with? To me it seems OK but would be interested to hear alternatives.I don't know tbh nobody can seem to agree. The valuations need looked at I believe but like you I'm not sure what to replace it with that's why I'm not sure they deserve that much stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasselhoff Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/richard-murphy-gers-denier.html?m=1 A response. Was going to post the same link. Reminded me of one of the decades when someone quoted Ronald McDonald and a juvenile nationalist burst out laughing at the McDonalds related name. Cuthberts analysis in Wings article is out of context. They said that about earliest version of GERS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I don't know tbh nobody can seem to agree. The valuations need looked at I believe but like you I'm not sure what to replace it with that's why I'm not sure they deserve that much stick. Indeed I'm not clued in on it but it seems to me to be ok to tax based on property value with those in bigger houses paying more. Mate that's why the SNP have dropped plans to replace it? It was fine in the first place. But happy if anyone proposes an alternative. Gen question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I don't know tbh nobody can seem to agree. The valuations need looked at I believe but like you I'm not sure what to replace it with that's why I'm not sure they deserve that much stick. What I find unfair about the council tax is that a family with grown up children all working pay the same as a household with with only two people in the house. A local income tax would be better based on ability to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 What I find unfair about the council tax is that a family with grown up children all working pay the same as a household with with only two people in the house. A local income tax would be better based on ability to pay. I think the Tories tried to change it under Thatcher and that went down a storm eh[emoji1] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Don Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Money has to be raised from somewhere to pay for public services. As much as the council tax can be unfair it certainly needed raising, it's impossible to sustain the levels of SNP spending without the revenue to pay for it. Free prescription, free education, free school meals up to and including P3, baby boxes, subsidies to offset the bedroom tax, council services need paying for the list goes on. The hard of thinking lefty liberal expect everything for nothing types don't see this. The Scottish government should have done away with the council tax and went back to the old system of rates not the current banding system. The old system as far as I can remember had a house paying ?X amount based on its current value and it was a percentage of that value that the house paid. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 What I find unfair about the council tax is that a family with grown up children all working pay the same as a household with with only two people in the house. A local income tax would be better based on ability to pay. The Poll Tax was a lot worse. Someone earning ?1m was paying the same as someone earning ?10k. The problem with a local income tax based on the ability to pay is that deprived areas with real social problems such as high unemployment and benefit dependency will raise next to no money in tax, so who pays for the local council services in that area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/richard-murphy-gers-denier.html?m=1 A response. Let's just suppose the GERS figures are nearly right for arguments sake, say ?5 billion. It's hardly a glowing endorsement of Westminster economic policy, I mean, wages and business has been stagnant for 15 years across the U.K as a whole. ?1.7 TRILLION in debt says it all. The Torys started off in government at ?0.9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo lodge Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Wrecked his supposedly Socialist party for his own personal grievance and Blairite vision. I actually glad this cretin is nowhere near our club now. And as a FoH member, I'll be vocal as **** if he ever gets near involved in HMFC again. Wow, what a clown you are. This guy, whatever you think of his politics gave up a huge amount of personal time to help save our club. Go back to your political cult with comments like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo lodge Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/richard-murphy-gers-denier.html?m=1 A response. Excellent blog as usual, far too sensible and logical for some on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Indeed I'm not clued in on it but it seems to me to be ok to tax based on property value with those in bigger houses paying more. Mate that's why the SNP have dropped plans to replace it? It was fine in the first place. But happy if anyone proposes an alternative. Gen question. They've been arguing about this in Scotland for 30 years! Not just the last 10. Look what happened when Thatcher brought in the Poll Tax if you were old enough to have been eligible to pay it. There was a mass campaign on non payment, which I did, and then there was riots in London when it was introduced down South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Excellent blog as usual, far too sensible and logical for some on here.But you'd criticise someone who posted a Wings article I bet. A man who sells pedigree chum and whiskas is about as credible tbh. Pinch of salt required when reading any of these blogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 How about a complete reversal on income tax & council tax. Scrap council tax completely, raise income tax by 2p in the pound. Your local government is responsible for tax collection so it gets paid locally. They in turn take their cut & send the rest to the national government. Sound fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 How about a complete reversal on income tax & council tax. Scrap council tax completely, raise income tax by 2p in the pound. Your local government is responsible for tax collection so it gets paid locally. They in turn take their cut & send the rest to the national government. Sound fair? You could actually go further and argue that do we need local councils and their overheads to run a country with only 5 and a bit million people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 You could also argue do we need over a hundred MSPs sitting in a monstrosity achieving very little that improves the life of Scottish people. Oh and some politicians say we need more MSPs because of all the powers that have been devolved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 How about a complete reversal on income tax & council tax. Scrap council tax completely, raise income tax by 2p in the pound. Your local government is responsible for tax collection so it gets paid locally. They in turn take their cut & send the rest to the national government. Sound fair? I have always thought that income tax should be the source for funding local government. Council Tax, Poll Tax, etc are all just fudges to allow local government to raise their own money rather than have it handed to them from central government. I really don't see the relationship between the house someone lives in to how much council tax they have to pay. If you have multiple earners in a property consuming local services, why should only the house owner/llead tenant have to pay? Surely its only sensible that some rural authorities should be subsidised where their population is insufficient to fund the services from taxation of their residents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 You could also argue do we need over a hundred MSPs sitting in a monstrosity achieving very little that improves the life of Scottish people. Oh and some politicians say we need more MSPs because of all the powers that have been devolved! Maybe if they were given more scope and powers, it wouldn't be such a waste as you claim. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I recall seeing an analysis on his business interests, his company had made a combined loss of 250k over 5 years IIRC. I've been reading his twitter exchange with a professor of economics on twitter. He's making a complete fool of himself shouting hypothetical scenarios about getting caught speeding. In the Wings post earlier, there were a number of people that agreed on GERS. Are they all wrong or do we believe a loss-making, pedigree chum flogging, blogger? Who exactly are we talking about here, I've seen this dog food salesman come up in conversation a lot but no idea who he is and what he's supposed to have written. Is it the blog X2 posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I recall seeing an analysis on his business interests, his company had made a combined loss of 250k over 5 years IIRC. I've been reading his twitter exchange with a professor of economics on twitter. He's making a complete fool of himself shouting hypothetical scenarios about getting caught speeding. In the Wings post earlier, there were a number of people that agreed on GERS. Are they all wrong or do we believe a loss-making, pedigree chum flogging, blogger? As with most things, the truth is probably somewhere inbetween. I think most YES voters would agree that there will be short term pain, for want of a phrase, come independence. This of course has to be balanced by the same as a result of Brexit. Arguably at least GERS gives you a picture. Currently those looking at Brexit don't seem to have a clue! https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/15/brexit-government-assessed-impact-leaving-eu-deal-david-davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 More scope and powers you're having a laugh the SNP cannot even manage with the powers they have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 More scope and powers you're having a laugh the SNP cannot even manage with the powers they have! 50% of the Scottish population don't share your sentiments unfortunately. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Who exactly are we talking about here, I've seen this dog food salesman come up in conversation a lot but no idea who he is and what he's supposed to have written. Is it the blog X2 posted?Kevin Hague who writes chokkablogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Apologies for linking the Daily Ranger but this is hilarious[emoji23] 55% of us wanted to remain part of England too http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/you-fg-jock-cs-englishman-10033610 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 50% of the Scottish population don't share your sentiments unfortunately. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Population? *vladstupid* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo lodge Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 As with most things, the truth is probably somewhere inbetween. I think most YES voters would agree that there will be short term pain, for want of a phrase, come independence. This of course has to be balanced by the same as a result of Brexit. Arguably at least GERS gives you a picture. Currently those looking at Brexit don't seem to have a clue! https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/15/brexit-government-assessed-impact-leaving-eu-deal-david-davis According to the SNP's own Economic Advisor, Andrew Wilson the cost of independence could be up to 10 years of no growth in the Scottish Economy. Ten years of even greater austerity and more deficit/debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah O Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Apologies for linking the Daily Ranger but this is hilarious[emoji23] 55% of us wanted to remain part of England too http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/you-fg-jock-cs-englishman-10033610 Superb. That has to be a piss take surely?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah O Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 According to the SNP's own Economic Advisor, Andrew Wilson the cost of independence could be up to 10 years of no growth in the Scottish Economy. Ten years of even greater austerity and more deficit/debt.4 Generations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 4 Generations Glasgow generations obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 What would you replace it with? To me it seems OK but would be interested to hear alternatives.Bring back the rent and rates, who changed that, oh that's right Maggie and her fecking poll tax and her Scottish Guinea pigs. We!!! Member that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 According to the SNP's own Economic Advisor, Andrew Wilson the cost of independence could be up to 10 years of no growth in the Scottish Economy. Ten years of even greater austerity and more deficit/debt. How long for the hard brexit uk economy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Kevin Hague who writes chokkablogs. Oh him! [emoji23] I saw him get his arse handed on a plate on Twitter. Baldy, specky guy? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Apologies for linking the Daily Ranger but this is hilarious[emoji23] 55% of us wanted to remain part of England too http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/you-fg-jock-cs-englishman-10033610 :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Scotland truly is becoming a horrible place and will be really nasty if the workshy get their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Oh him! [emoji23] I saw him get his arse handed on a plate on Twitter. Baldy, specky guy? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Don't think he's bald. Specs and getting his arse handed to him sounds about right though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Apologies for linking the Daily Ranger but this is hilarious[emoji23] 55% of us wanted to remain part of England too http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/you-fg-jock-cs-englishman-10033610 They love us don't you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 :laugh:Part of England, but the no voters will tell us he's a one off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Scotland truly is becoming a horrible place and will be really nasty if the workshy get their way.You're a no voter, so that won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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