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DanishTam10

Can't they reintroduce? Personally I think the Council Tax is fairly decent anyway. It's based on house value so reasonably progressive.

 

What's the best alternative?

Firstly, because of the freeze, the Council tax became less progressive. (homeowners in prosperous areas paid less in comparison, to their poorer countrymen and women)

 

Secondly, the bands have not changed for many years. Which also meant it was less progressive. 

 

The 2017/2018 year marks a change, no compulsory council tax freeze, and I think the bands have seen some re-assessment.

 

So no- the council tax is not progressive. see here http://localtaxcommission.scot/

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Thunderstruck

EU, 'extensive' new powers, shipbuilding, public sector jobs, social security, carbon capture, renewables, EVEL etc.

 

Just a few Tory promises broken in the last 18 months in relation to Scotland.

Missed this, did you?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-39217222

 

As of today, there are 2 more growing out of the fabrication hall and work in the new Frigates has started.

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Depends how you define 'doing well'. It seems that they are doing a better job of representing Scotland than Labour previously but even some of their more modest proposals/amendments are voted down irrespective of their individual merit.

 

Agree with the second paragraph.

On the bit in bold, this really does bug me. They are not there to represent Scotland. They are there to represent the interests of their constituents. So they are there to represent Edinburgh North and Leith, to represent Banff and Buchan, Inverness, Western Isles, Coatbridge, Glasgow South and the rest and to do so with those localised seats and their interests first. Not Scotland. We need to stop homogenising Scotland's varied and differentlocal needs as one.

 

I agree the SNP are much more vocal and prominent but they seem to operate as a block group. Plus the inability to defy party policy is to me counter intuitive to their duties to their seats.

 

All imo of course.

 

I would say on NI, if this had happened with an extension of rights to self employed people there would be a trade off and it'd be more palatable. However, Labour missed a huge goal there in their response to the budget and again Corbyn's leadership have allowed this to go unpunished. Hammond is only acting so fast and loose because he has nothing to fear from Corbyn/McDonnell. Labour have started to rediscover a good vision to take to the people but those two need emptied for the good of the party and the nation to provide a stronger opposition.

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They were voted down by the other parties, but then, you already knew that.

But... the SNP didn't want to agree to Liberal Democrat proposals to make it a locally set rate. They wanted to bring it in nationally and have the Finance Minister set the rate nationally.

 

If they'd been perhaps more committed to localisation then they'd have got it through.

 

However, definitely with you on a Land Value Tax but I'd look to be giving much more tax power to local government and to really empower local government. Government closer to the peoples needs will deliver better results on public health, transport, schools and local services. Time to trust not hamstring local government.

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But... the SNP didn't want to agree to Liberal Democrat proposals to make it a locally set rate. They wanted to bring it in nationally and have the Finance Minister set the rate nationally.

 

If they'd been perhaps more committed to localisation then they'd have got it through.

 

However, definitely with you on a Land Value Tax but I'd look to be giving much more tax power to local government and to really empower local government. Government closer to the peoples needs will deliver better results on public health, transport, schools and local services. Time to trust not hamstring local government.

Are you saying we should give more responsibility to Edinburgh council?

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Yes.

Don't think you'll get many people agreeing to that. Remember that time they spent all our money on a tram line to the detriment of every other public service.

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Don't think you'll get many people agreeing to that. Remember that time they spent all our money on a tram line to the detriment of every other public service.

That tram line situation is much more complicated an issue than just being the council's fault.

 

Scottish cities need to be given more power like Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham have because if not they'll be left behind those cities.

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Malinga the Swinga

That tram line situation is much more complicated an issue than just being the council's fault.

Scottish cities need to be given more power like Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham have because if not they'll be left behind those cities.

That might or might not be true, and I have very little knowledge of those who run Liverpool, Manchester or Birmingham, but Imwouod not be inclined to allow those in power at Edinburgh district council any more power than it takes to open a door because they are a selfish bunch of deluded halfwits whose sole intention is to raise their personal profiles to the detriment of everything else. People like Hinds don't deserve to be allowed to quit, she should have been sacked for the complete mess she has made of her department and the city.

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Space Mackerel

Didn't take long for this and the usual suspects to turn it into another SNP thread.

 

Meanwhile, leaked documents show Surrey County Council given ?40 million to call of their threat of a referendum.

 

May has been lying to Parliament.

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Malinga the Swinga

Didn't take long for this and the usual suspects to turn it into another SNP thread.

Meanwhile, leaked documents show Surrey County Council given ?40 million to call of their threat of a referendum.

May has been lying to Parliament.

sorry can't take anything you say seriously since you accused USA of faking attack on pentagon and filling missile with dead bodies. You are an imbecile Edited by Malinga the Swinga
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Space Mackerel

sorry can't take anything you say seriously since you accused USA of faking attack on pentagon and filling missile with dead bodies. You are an imbecile

76c5dc7baebcd8b5330dc09409b7e009.jpg

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Thunderstruck

When you're promised 12 and they reduce that number to 8, it's still a broken promise.

Bullsh1t. You lot look for the tiniest reason to be aggrieved and then ignore anything that is good news.

 

In this case you conveniently ignore the development to follow the 26s and their potential for international sales.

 

I'm sure the RN's decision to relocate all of the SSN Squadron to Scotland did not feature in any "promise" but, lo and behold.

 

Not just the boats but the infrastructure and associated jobs.

 

Can you confirm if you applaud that investment.

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What happened to your manifesto pledge of no more Tax hikes. NI hike for the self employed to align with PAYE employees without the same benefits. Are they gonnae give me holiday pay etc...???

 

LIARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They're only asking you to pay an extra ?240pa. You're only going to hide another ?5k of your earnings to get it back so why are you crying?

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Malinga the Swinga

Bullsh1t. You lot look for the tiniest reason to be aggrieved and then ignore anything that is good news.

In this case you conveniently ignore the development to follow the 26s and their potential for international sales.

I'm sure the RN's decision to relocate all of the SSN Squadron to Scotland did not feature in any "promise" but, lo and behold.

Not just the boats but the infrastructure and associated jobs.

Can you confirm if you applaud that investment.

Of course no applause will be frorthcoming. Any decision Westminster makes that benefits Scotland or gives Scotland jobs is taken as a minimum and something we automatically deserved anyway.

 

Any decision that means jobs in rest of UK is bad for Scotland and proves that we are constantly ignored and put down.

 

Such bitterness and pettiness that is basically the politics of envy.

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Malinga the Swinga

What happened to your manifesto pledge of no more Tax hikes. NI hike for the self employed to align with PAYE employees without the same benefits. Are they gonnae give me holiday pay etc...???

LIARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doubt they will to be honest. In the meantime, what happened to the SNP pledge to reduce classroom sizes in primary schools? Is that one broken or just ignored?

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Malinga the Swinga

Where's the bitterness in that post? Scotland were promised something for a No vote, only for the government to renege thus placing thousands of jobs at risk.

'Aye but if Scotland voted for independence, there would be no shipbuilding contract'. No doubt this will be the retort.

Do you and your fellow supporters actually go through every manifesto,more cord every pledge/promise and then watch closely through the years to see if they are met or not. You could say it is a pledge met with reduced terms but circumstances change and if you don't agree, then fair enough.

 

Can we have a list of all pledges from SNP and see how they are doing or are the SNP immune from monitoring?

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Captain Sausage

Doubt they will to be honest. In the meantime, what happened to the SNP pledge to reduce classroom sizes in primary schools? Is that one broken or just ignored?

You'll not get an answer to this one...

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Malinga the Swinga

I've answered your narrow-minded assertion on the other thread.

I have read it. Some twaddle about studying abroad to improve family prospects. What about staying in Scotland or is our education not good enough for you. You make mention of your property and investments. So you have property here that you don't stay in and presumably rent out for profit. Not exactly the fair society you preach about. In fact, that sounds exactly like Tory ideals.

 

 

Anyway, you have chosen to leave Scotland, you don't stay here and therefore whatever you say or believe about Scotland is irrelevant. You are in fact, the exact type of person who makes me ashamed to be Scottish. Only interested in yourself, whilst preaching about fairness and caring. What a hypocrite. What a first class, uncaring selfish piece of work you really are.

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Fair enough although slightly pedantic, by definition they are representing the interests of Scotland through the support of individual constituencies.

 

They are a new batch of MPs, mostly recruited on the back of the referendum. I would like to believe that most of them have the same beliefs on the back of that shared experience. They also, with no exceptions, seem to occupy the left.

Your second point has me scratching my head. If they were of the left I'd have expected much more of a push back on their own Holyrood government's poor budget which is cutting funds and not using devolved tax powers.

 

Not pedantic at all. For arguments sake the SNP national need may be to abolish Trident but that doesn't serve the needs of the people in the seat of Argyle and Bute well given a large proportion of the local economy is reliant on the highly skilled work there and the supply chain therein. Yet the MP cannot under party rules side with his/her constituents needs there. Same goes on all other policy areas.

 

We must not blur national and local needs. People in Leith have different needs from government than that of Sutherland and Caithness. The issue I have is the prevalence of the "Scotland is local" mantra of the SNP. It's not and local needs should be increasingly the bread and butter of our debates. Not Scotland. It's not a homogenous state.

Edited by JamboX2
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niblick1874

On the bit in bold, this really does bug me. They are not there to represent Scotland. They are there to represent the interests of their constituents. So they are there to represent Edinburgh North and Leith, to represent Banff and Buchan, Inverness, Western Isles, Coatbridge, Glasgow South and the rest and to do so with those localised seats and their interests first. Not Scotland. We need to stop homogenising Scotland's varied and differentlocal needs as one.

 

I agree the SNP are much more vocal and prominent but they seem to operate as a block group. Plus the inability to defy party policy is to me counter intuitive to their duties to their seats.

 

All imo of course.

Globalism eh.

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deesidejambo

Perhaps they feel that utilizing their extremely limited, tax raising, devolved powers to further mitigate Tory cuts is not acceptable. As the annual budget for Scotland decreases, should the SNP penalize people further through tax increases, is that you're purporting? We're looking at annual decreases for the remainder of the Tory government, where will tax increases stop?

 

As for Trident, a FOI established that there were only 500 jobs directly supported by its existence in Scotland. I'd rather have the removal of nuclear weapons from our shores in exhange for those jobs and the ludicrous amount of money the replacement is costing over its lifespan. It would appear that many others, including the SNP, share this belief.

 

I believe that SNP members are capable of free-thought, however all the new members joined shortly after 2014. It's quite likely that they share ideas thanks to the referendum experience that initially brought them together.

The tax raising powers are not extremely limited, they are more than flexible enough to raise significant revenue.

 

But after years of whining they then didn't use the powers to create a more progressive fiscal approach.

 

Because they themselves are Tories.

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deesidejambo

I'm not denying that there is a strong party whip in place in order to provide a united front, I just feel that most of them got into politics for the same reasons.

All this does is stifle free thinking and stop local isssues being considered as much as they should.

 

The SNP should have a united front in Indy that's fine, but not on governance.

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deesidejambo

All the new members joined shortly after 2014. It's quite likely that they share ideas thanks to the referendum experience that initially brought them together.

Of course they will share ideas and ideologies. But they are not allowed to share differences or go against the party line. That is not good governance

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deesidejambo

In your opinion.

Of course. Are people not allowed to have them in your view? Your opinion of me is I make stuff up and lie. You are entitled to it.

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They are limited only to income tax, flexibility would have allowed Scotland to raise taxes in other areas to cover shortfalls.

 

The offer of devolving income tax is a clear trap. The Tories would love to see Scotland ramping up its taxes to mitigate their annual austerity measures. The net result would Scots paying more tax and getting less back from London which would have no end as the Tories could just turn the screw tighter.

 

They have full control over stamp duty land tax and landfill tax.

They also have the power to introduce new taxes - this is subject to agreement from Westminster but I would expect any block from there could only help the case for independence.

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Either of those will not generate enough income to mitigate the reduction in budget, realistically only income tax can bridge the gap.

 

If you don't want to raise income tax then why not attempt to introduce new taxes then ? Over the last 5 years public spending per person has been higher in Scotland than the UK average (in fact the only place it's been at higher levels that Scotland is in Northern Ireland).  If we want to maintain spending at these levels shouldn't we take the responsibility for it by paying more tax ?

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Space Mackerel

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

 

Election overspend scandal rears its ugly head again and 2 Tory Mp's not so happy.

 

Is there no end to this hapless bunch?

Edited by Space Mackerel
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SwindonJambo

True but this is massive. We could be looking at umpteen by-elections.

Even if we were, the Tories would win the lot due to the weak, divided and ineffectual opposition. The same reason they won the last election.

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Are you still under the insane assumption that politicians tell the truth? Every single party is every bit as bad as the last shower of incompetents who held the office.

Doesn't mean we have to accept it tho' maybe in a Indy Scotland we could sort that out under harsh laws. Just a thought.

There's 18 Tory MPs under investigation for election fraud as we speak, BTW.

Edited by aussieh
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If you don't want to raise income tax then why not attempt to introduce new taxes then ? Over the last 5 years public spending per person has been higher in Scotland than the UK average (in fact the only place it's been at higher levels that Scotland is in Northern Ireland). If we want to maintain spending at these levels shouldn't we take the responsibility for it by paying more tax ?

Over the last 40 years revenue per head has been higher from Scotland. More responsibility you say? Independence Edited by aussieh
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All this does is stifle free thinking and stop local isssues being considered as much as they should.

 

The SNP should have a united front in Indy that's fine, but not on governance.

Exactly where I am.

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Perhaps they feel that utilizing their extremely limited, tax raising, devolved powers to further mitigate Tory cuts is not acceptable. As the annual budget for Scotland decreases, should the SNP penalize people further through tax increases, is that you're purporting? We're looking at annual decreases for the remainder of the Tory government, where will tax increases stop?

Real terms the budget goes up though. On should we "penalise" Scots with higher tax? Well you're asking a bit of an odd question. If Scotland becomes independent and the tax take shrinks you must either (1) cut or (2) raise tax to maintain services.

 

The devolution of tax powers meana if your budget shrinks (or you wish to enact a more progresssive tax regieme) you can do so. It provides the government flexibility. No one is being taxed twice here. There are devolved taxes you pay and if they go up it is spent in Scotland.

 

Equally, at the end of the day, if you want first class public services you may have to pay more tax to afford them. So yes. If we want more from government, indy or not, we have to pay more for it. I'm happy with that.

 

As for Trident, a FOI established that there were only 500 jobs directly supported by its existence in Scotland. I'd rather have the removal of nuclear weapons from our shores in exhange for those jobs and the ludicrous amount of money the replacement is costing over its lifespan. It would appear that many others, including the SNP, share this belief.

That is 500 at the yard alone. Small beer. But over the west coast 1000s of supply sector (jobs supporting the yard) rely on the yard being there. It's the same with Rosyth. Or was the same with coal pits and steel works. If you shrink or close a main employer it impacts the wider economyof an area as there is less money moving around it.

 

I'm anti-Trident but you need a diversification plan. None of which exists.

 

I believe that SNP members are capable of free-thought, however all the new members joined shortly after 2014. It's quite likely that they share ideas thanks to the referendum experience that initially brought them together.

I don't doubt that on independence. But surely you can't say all agree with a corporation tax cut or one police force? The referendum didn't do that surely?

 

I think, and writers like Loki and Vonny Moyes have been good here, the rush to the SNP is as much a blurring of Yes/SNP lines by many yes voters.

 

The wider movement was quite vibrant and has matured somewhat. The SNP seem to be a broken record on a moral crusade that was rejected in 2014. Wider debates and broader opinions are needef to win for Pro-Indy.

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Over the last 40 years revenue per head has been higher from Scotland. More responsibility you say? Independence

 

Do you have a breakdown of these figures over the last 40 years ? I'd be interested to look at the trend over that period.

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Do you have a breakdown of these figures over the last 40 years ? I'd be interested to look at the trend over that period.

I Cannae do stuff like that but its on the UK government site , I think. Under Region as they like to call us.
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I Cannae do stuff like that but its on the UK government site , I think. Under Region as they like to call us.

 

Do you remember if it was revenue, GVA or some other measurement ?  I can get the GVA figures by region for 2011 > 2015 but going back 40 years seems more difficult to find.

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Do you remember if it was revenue, GVA or some other measurement ? I can get the GVA figures by region for 2011 > 2015 but going back 40 years seems more difficult to find.

I'll find it, but it'll have to be later bud.
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deesidejambo

Must have been pressure from Alex Salmond that's caused this.

At least we can go on scamming the cash in hand work and the mileage expenses.

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