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Holding midfielder


mr fox

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if we intend to play this holding midfielder role who is the best player to fit into this position

 

Kitchen for me isn't a footballer he possibly could play centre half ....(. Debatable as it is )

 

The best defensive footballer we have by miles is John Souter very good on the ball .... has he been played there and if so did he do well ?

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A holding midfielder doesn't mean you saunter around and play slowly, as Kitchen does a times.

 

That area needs a spark. It needs a player who sees things quicker and in turn moves the ball quicker.

 

Also, not afraid to thread balls FORWARD into spaces Walker or the attacking mid find between midfield and defence. Or "between the lines" as the catchphrase goes these days.

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I think Kitchen was very good when he was moved further forward with Nowak in the holding role. He had Djoum near him though.

 

He does act very lost as if the system isn't suited to him and he isn't where he feels comfortable.

 

I think a lot of this has to do with the players around him. If Kitchen has Djoum and Martin round him he has easy out balls to creative players who can make things happen should he find himself in a position where he needs to play it simple.

 

If he has Nowak and Cowie near him he's not got the same creative out ball.

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Rudi Hates Hibees

if we intend to play this holding midfielder role who is the best player to fit into this position

 

Kitchen for me isn't a footballer he possibly could play centre half ....(. Debatable as it is )

 

The best defensive footballer we have by miles is John Souter very good on the ball .... has he been played there and if so did he do well ?

I could be wrong here but I think I read somewhere that he was playing there for United and one of his reasons for wanting away from United was he wanted to be playing centre half.

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I think Kitchen was very good when he was moved further forward with Nowak in the holding role. He had Djoum near him though.

 

He does act very lost as if the system isn't suited to him and he isn't where he feels comfortable.

 

I think a lot of this has to do with the players around him. If Kitchen has Djoum and Martin round him he has easy out balls to creative players who can make things happen should he find himself in a position where he needs to play it simple.

 

If he has Nowak and Cowie near him he's not got the same creative out ball.

KItchen offers zero in any attacking sense and looks lost to me wherever he's played.Sorry,Need rid.He even looks apprehensive in the tunnel before he leads us out.Not a leader.

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We_are_the_Hearts

Our best midfield performance of the season was home to Celtic. No holding midfielder. Cowie and Djoum in the middle, Cowie drving on the the team. Walker, Sam and Watt supporting the Fish. We never played it again

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I've been quite impressed with Nowak in there tbh. While he isn't the most spectacular player on the park he reads play well knowing when to drop back and cover and breaks play up well.

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Rudi Hates Hibees

I've been quite impressed with Nowak in there tbh. While he isn't the most spectacular player on the park he reads play well knowing when to drop back and cover and breaks play up well.

I agree.

 

From our current options I'd have him before kitchen. There really is no place in the team for both of them.

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Our best midfield performance of the season was home to Celtic. No holding midfielder. Cowie and Djoum in the middle, Cowie drving on the the team. Walker, Sam and Watt supporting the Fish. We never played it again

Agree why do we even need a holding midfielder.More energy is whats needed imo.So Cowie/Bauben,Djoum and Martin in a midfield 3 with Walker,Johnsen and another up top.
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I remember a game a few years back when Holt - I think due to an injury crisis in midfield - moved back to the holding midfielder position.  He was surprisingly good at it. We could really do with somebody back there who can pass out of defence, not just someone who gets stuck in and clatters people, don't know who that would be at the moment though.

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We_are_the_Hearts

I remember a game a few years back when Holt - I think due to an injury crisis in midfield - moved back to the holding midfielder position.  He was surprisingly good at it. We could really do with somebody back there who can pass out of defence, not just someone who gets stuck in and clatters people, don't know who that would be at the moment though.

The best I have seen at it in Scotland are McStay, Bett and Barry Ferguson. All can read a game and great passers. You don't need a defensive stopper!

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Kitchen is more than capable in that role the problems come when we have a centre half playing in midfield beside him and no creative players beside either of them. We do not need two defensive players in midfield against anyone in the spl.

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Do we really need to play a holding midfielder in most matches we shouldn't need one tomorrow night play at a high tempo and should win by a few think they need to remove armband from kitchen he's not even a footballer never mind a captain

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Jambo dans les Pyrenees

The best I have seen at it in Scotland are McStay, Bett and Barry Ferguson. All can read a game and great passers. You don't need a defensive stopper!

 

This.  And in terms of positional awareness, timing and range of passing, Nowak>Kitchen on all 3.

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We_are_the_Hearts

This.  And in terms of positional awareness, timing and range of passing, Nowak>Kitchen on all 3.

Lambert did it well for Dortmund and Celtic. Again by reading the game and passing the ball well but also contributing offensively when the time was right.

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Oh for the days when a centre mid could tackle/defend AND pass/attack!

 

Seems that these days you get one or the other!

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Nowak is clearly best in that role.

Kitchen needs dropped.

To be fair the pair of them were utterly woeful against Raith. No need for both of them to have been playing anyway when we had other, more offensive options. Playing two holding players against that mob is actually embarrassing and was a big part of why we didn't win IMO. Fair enough to bring one of them on to hold on to a game, but to set out with such a cautious line up reminded me of a head coach who is no longer here

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Nowak is a decent holding midfielder, he looks comfortable in there and has no problem knowing when to fill in at the back, Kitchen is a disaster and not needed in the team, he doesn't want to pass forward and he's just a waste of a jersey in midfield, needs dropped.

 

It should be Nowak Djoum Martin in midfield when we have everyone fit and none of this shoe horning Cowie or Buaben out wide.

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We have too many central midfielders to choose from tbh - no need having so many.  Djoum, Bauben, Martin, Cowie, Nowak and Kitchen can all play in there.  We seem to drown it now ever since we had a gaping hole in there a year ago.  Shocking balance.

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We have too many central midfielders to choose from tbh - no need having so many.  Djoum, Bauben, Martin, Cowie, Nowak and Kitchen can all play in there.  We seem to drown it now ever since we had a gaping hole in there a year ago.  Shocking balance.

 

We have a lot of average / poor ones that don't do much or create much and are easily dominated.

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Oh for the days when a centre mid could tackle/defend AND pass/attack!

 

Seems that these days you get one or the other!

 

Exactly!

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Jambo dans les Pyrenees

Nowak is a decent holding midfielder, he looks comfortable in there and has no problem knowing when to fill in at the back, Kitchen is a disaster and not needed in the team, he doesn't want to pass forward and he's just a waste of a jersey in midfield, needs dropped.

 

It should be Nowak Djoum Martin in midfield when we have everyone fit and none of this shoe horning Cowie or Buaben out wide.

 

Yep.  I'd go with

 

                                Hamilton

 

                    Soutar                 Hughes

 

   Struna                                                   Rherras/Sowah

                                 Nowak

 

Martin                       Djoum             Nicholson

 

                    Walker

                                        Johnson

 

All 5 most advanced players should be challenged by a new second striker for a place / different formation.  Zanatta is young still but he has a chance to do this if he is good enough.

 

Nicholson to be challenged by Bauben

 

Djoum/Nowak to be challenged by Cowie.

 

Nowak to be challenged by Kitchen

 

Shows how thin the squad is in terms of real first team challenging quality.

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fabienleclerq

I remember a game a few years back when Holt - I think due to an injury crisis in midfield - moved back to the holding midfielder position.  He was surprisingly good at it. We could really do with somebody back there who can pass out of defence, not just someone who gets stuck in and clatters people, don't know who that would be at the moment though.

 

Italy used to play Pirlo there with gattuso in front of him. Gattuso doing doing the pressing and pirlo in the space behind in almost a reverse of how most teams play it.

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MoncurMacdonaldMercer

Our best midfield performance of the season was home to Celtic. No holding midfielder. Cowie and Djoum in the middle, Cowie drving on the the team. Walker, Sam and Watt supporting the Fish. We never played it again

100%

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Arthur Morgan

Our best midfield performance of the season was home to Celtic. No holding midfielder. Cowie and Djoum in the middle, Cowie drving on the the team. Walker, Sam and Watt supporting the Fish. We never played it again

This. We deserved something out that game too, at the very least a draw.

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Central midfielders should work in tandem, with both performing all of the same duties.

 

If one pushes on, the other sits and vice versa. 

 

This having one guy sitting at all times is absolute nonsense.

 

Walker / Djoum / Cowie / Martin - that should be our midfield moving forward.

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We_are_the_Hearts

Central midfielders should work in tandem, with both performing all of the same duties.

 

If one pushes on, the other sits and vice versa. 

 

This having one guy sitting at all times is absolute nonsense.

 

Walker / Djoum / Cowie / Martin - that should be our midfield moving forward.

Spot on. Makes you less predictable and harder to mark

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Jambo dans les Pyrenees

I'd suggest it's going to be difficult to accommodate Martin, Djoum and Walker in the same team

Which is kind of what we need.

 

The first problem of our small squad of REAL FIRST TEAM PLAYERS is that there is no one around to replace those who have lost form.  Zanatta, Currie, Beith and even Smith may all be good prospects but they are not ready to grab and hold a first team place.

 

The second problem is that the lack of competition is one factor leading to poor form.

 

We'll get more out of playing two of the above three on top form, than all three on average form.

 

I think we need a first team squad of 16-17 outfield players who on form we would all be pretty happy to see starting.

 

We've currently got 14; assuming all the new guys come good of which 2 are away on international duty and 2 are injured, leaving us with 10 - of which a fair few are lacking in form (Kitchen, Johnson, Soutar).

 

Some of this is the reality of present day Hearts in present day Scottish football but within those confines, we have a lot to do with our squad.  A lot of work, you might say.

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I think Souttar is best suited to that role. It's more a front sweeper/ libero role than a holding midfielder.More of an attacking defensive position than a defensive midfield position. The player in that position should imo be able to pass, run with the ball, support attacks and strike a ball from distance , as well as be able to read the game and have good positional sense. Nowak is alright but he's not Souttar. Kitchen is a purely defensive minded player and I suppose he could play there but you'd still be reliant on Souttar to bring the ball out of Defence.

 

Obviously if Souttar was to play there we'd need to bring in a good CB so right now it is not an option.

 

That's how I'd liked it to be anyway. It should be played in the same manner as Koeman, Sammer, Matth?us, Rijkaard, Beckenbauer played that game.

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We_are_the_Hearts

I'd suggest it's going to be difficult to accommodate Martin, Djoum and Walker in the same team

Cowie-Djoum

Walker-Martin-Sam

A striker

 

Djoum for me is better a bit deeper and arriving late. Rather than playing with his back to goal a lot.

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Elias Henry Furst

To those saying we don't need a holding midfielder - it looks like Cathro wants his full backs to push up the park when possible. Having Nowak in there allows him to drop back and make a back 3.

 

In that instance having a holding midfielder in there isn't necessarily defensively minded. The problem I see is when Kitchen is in there also, 2 of our 3 centre midfield players are very deep. With him being Captain, he's going to play but it's to the detriment of the side such is the way Cathro wants us to play.

 

I think the club have a decision to make regarding Perry Kitchen.

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Cowie should be in that role with Nowak or perhaps Djoum . We need energy and an ability to take the ball from defence and move us up the park quicker and accurately. Cowie is tailor made for that role it's a no brainer .

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To those saying we don't need a holding midfielder - it looks like Cathro wants his full backs to push up the park when possible. Having Nowak in there allows him to drop back and make a back 3.

 

In that instance having a holding midfielder in there isn't necessarily defensively minded. The problem I see is when Kitchen is in there also, 2 of our 3 centre midfield players are very deep. With him being Captain, he's going to play but it's to the detriment of the side such is the way Cathro wants us to play.

 

I think the club have a decision to make regarding Perry Kitchen.

 

Again that's where the central midfielders should use their intelligence - if they have any. If they identify a full back pushing on then one of them should move into a holding position.

 

We don't need someone who's heat map would be bright red between our box and the half way line.

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tartofmidlothian

I think Kitchen was very good when he was moved further forward with Nowak in the holding role. He had Djoum near him though.

 

He does act very lost as if the system isn't suited to him and he isn't where he feels comfortable.

 

I think a lot of this has to do with the players around him. If Kitchen has Djoum and Martin round him he has easy out balls to creative players who can make things happen should he find himself in a position where he needs to play it simple.

 

If he has Nowak and Cowie near him he's not got the same creative out ball.

This is spot on. Kitchen has a lot of good attributes, but IMO he's the weak link in the game we want to play. He did well moved forward, but Djoum, Martin, Cowie and maybe Walker are all contenders for that position too.

 

If a Championship side wanted to offer us 300k, I wouldn't be unhappy.

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Pasquale for King

Our best midfield performance of the season was home to Celtic. No holding midfielder. Cowie and Djoum in the middle, Cowie drving on the the team. Walker, Sam and Watt supporting the Fish. We never played it again

Indeed, and I would still like those two to be the starters. The new manager wants to play a slightly different midfield formation though. For some reason Kitchen was made captain then had to play. We will be lucky to get any money for him as when all the midfielders are available he will surely be on the bench. Novak played a ball to Cowie on Sunday that Kitchen could only dream about, why we didn't see him earlier beggars belief.
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Gene Parmesan

Kitchen's drop-off is concerning. The question in Cathro's mind has to be: do we let him play his way out of a rut, or take him out the team and hope he responds positively.

 

With Nowak playing the deepest role between defence and midfield, the player in front of him (currently Kitchen) has to be dynamic, move it quickly and try to get the ball from back to front. That's not happening just now.

 

Possibly worth bearing in mind that there's no real option on the bench just now for someone who could perform the role better, or certainly more reliably. I don't think it is unfair just now to say that Kitchen is playing for his place in the team. If he continues like this then he will be replaced in the transfer market.

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It's a role that has ruined modern football. A role for someone with little actual footballing ability.

I'd disagree. Kante and Makalele come to mind.

 

I'm not sure what is up with Kitchen, he looks very poor at the moment.

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We_are_the_Hearts

I'd disagree. Kante and Makalele come to mind.

 

I'm not sure what is up with Kitchen, he looks very poor at the moment.

Both of them can play as well though. Kante sets a tempo

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No but if you get the right one it works.

 

As much as I dislike him, there were times Lennon would dictate a game from the edge of his own box.  And Celtic wouldn't drop him just because the team they were playing against was weaker unless they were resting players.

 

The problem is that none of our midfield can spot and play a quick pass when we are on the break.  Kitchen especially has that easy role of in some elements of modern day football in keeping good possession stats, by easy sideways / backwards passing that creates nothing.

A holding midfielder to protect the defence against Raith at Tynecastle?

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Bazzas right boot

A role for a midfielder who can't pass or score.

 

Modern day rubbish.

 

However, kitchen imo is the best at this role, however only if we have fast and dynamic players around him.

Kitchen behind Djoum and Martin will work, as well as fast wingers/ full backs.

 

Cowie, Novak and kitchen together is a bad mix and has no balance, this is the issue for me as opposed to individual players.

 

Johnson also suffered as he's best when running the channels, without a partner or djoum he's lost, he's useless at holding play up.

 

We either need players who can play Cathro's way, or for the time being Cathro has to adjust to accommodate the players we have to get the best out of them.

 

Souttar doesn't want to be a midfielder, he's stated that himself.

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Bazzas right boot

A holding midfielder to protect the defence against Raith at Tynecastle?

Our defence ATM isn't as strong as your username.

 

Nothing wrong with that, especially if the full backs are attacking.

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I'd disagree. Kante and Makalele come to mind.

 

I'm not sure what is up with Kitchen, he looks very poor at the moment.

 

 

You can be a very successful football team without one, most definitely not the case in rugby with it's rugby equivalent (Number 8 or fly half).

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You can be a very successful football team without one, most definitely not the case in rugby with it's rugby equivalent (Number 8 or fly half).

Definitely but you can also be successful with one.

 

Playing with one that's not playing well isn't working out at the moment that's for sure.

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