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18 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Indeed, but who is really in charge Trump or Sean Hannity?

 

 

Good question.  I've read that those two talk every day on the telephone, and that sometimes Trump will change his position on an issue after the call.

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6 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Good question.  I've read that those two talk every day on the telephone, and that sometimes Trump will change his position on an issue after the call.

 

Trump was asked at the presser earlier if Hannity was dictating policy, didn't seem to happy about being asked that.

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If you listen to him he doesn't really care one way or another about the wall or immigration. At the least thats the way I see it. When answering a question about as he referred to it about being sued as a result of his state of emergency move he stated, well it will go to the 9th district and we will lose, it will go to another court and we will lose again, then it will go to the Supreme Court and we will see. He of course is dependent for a result there because of his planted members of the Court. He does however admit this could all take a couple of years, which is my point of his lack of c are about the wall, whether he gets it or not a 2020 decision on who is going to be President will have been made, and he will have got out of his unkept wall promise all he needed for his base.

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Seymour M Hersh

It was interesting listening to the US Border Patrol Officer (if that's his correct title). Articulate and clear in his support for a wall and it's effectiveness.

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The Real Maroonblood
3 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

It was interesting listening to the US Border Patrol Officer (if that's his correct title). Articulate and clear in his support for a wall and it's effectiveness.

Well that’s okay.

Lets build the wall.

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Seymour M Hersh
Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

Well that’s okay.

Lets build the wall.

 

He and his colleagues are worth listening to. They're at the coalface after all. Plus why not finish the job? 1/3 of the border already has a wall.

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Craig Gordons Gloves
6 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

He and his colleagues are worth listening to. They're at the coalface after all. Plus why not finish the job? 1/3 of the border already has a wall.

 

I take your point, where the problem lies is that this administration (and many before) are picking and choosing what experts they listen to.  Border control agents - cool.  Climate change scientists, economists, vaccination doctors, foreign affairs experts - not cool. 

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45 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

He and his colleagues are worth listening to. They're at the coalface after all. Plus why not finish the job? 1/3 of the border already has a wall.

 

1/3 of the border has substantial fencing, which up until recently was different from what Trump was insisting upon, that being 30 ft. tall solid concrete.

 

The reason not to "finish the job" is that much of the unfenced border runs through extremely remote places where basically no one crosses anyway because it's easier to get over the fenced portion -- to go through them for many folks would be the distance equivalent of going through the Chunnel and hopping a ship up the west coast in order to go from Edinburgh to Glasgow. 

 

Nevermind that for far less than the cost of building the silly thing, we could actually help stabilize democracy in the Central American countries where we sent death squads, reducing the demand for northern migration in the first place.

 

The CBP officer is worth listening to if you take at face value the notion that the best response to the current situation is only aggressive enforcement of the border as a fortification rather than as a political boundary between two neighbors. Which is kind of the point.

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43 minutes ago, Barack said:

So, when're the deportations and cessations of arrival to the U.S.A.,of members of The Italian, Albanian, Russian Mafia's, The Triads & Yakuza taking place then?

 

Must be soon. Or are walls/bollards/slats/chainlink fencing needed at the ports & airports now?

 

Or, are they ok, because they're not brown?

 

 

VERY BAD PEOPLE, M'KAY?

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A number of reports following the El Chapo trial point out the utter pointlessness of a wall in tackling drugs entering the USA.

Quote below from one
 

Quote

 

Though it never explicitly mentioned a border wall, the El Chapo trial methodically revealed how the cartel brought the drugs across the border.


Under Guzman's guidance, drugs were smuggled by plane, train, automobile, submarine, boat, tunnel and banana peel.


Frequently, the cartel would construct front companies that sold legal items. After shipping a few clean loads north into American cities, Guzman's associates would pack drugs into compartments or stuff drugs into the products themselves.

 

One witness described how Guzman filled cans of jalapenos with cocaine, stacked them on the back of commercial tractor-trailers and drove through legal points of entry, no questions asked.

The cartel took larger loads, though less frequently, by rail and sea. Sometimes operatives transported millions in cash.

In other words, the Sinaloa's narcotics were not snuck through the so-called "soft spots" that Mr Trump describes. They weren't taking advantage of a lack of concrete wall or steel-slat fence. They were going through legal points of entry.

 

 

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Seymour M Hersh
2 hours ago, Craig Gordons Gloves said:

 

I take your point, where the problem lies is that this administration (and many before) are picking and choosing what experts they listen to.  Border control agents - cool.  Climate change scientists, economists, vaccination doctors, foreign affairs experts - not cool. 

 

The democrats clearly don't think the agents are cool to listen to. I've no idea if trumpy boy is listening either it was just a report on the BBC (never a friend of America let alone Trump) this evening. 

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Seymour M Hersh
1 hour ago, RobboM said:

A number of reports following the El Chapo trial point out the utter pointlessness of a wall in tackling drugs entering the USA.

Quote below from one
 

 

 

One of the points made in the BBC report this evening was that a wall would require less bodies to man the border and those could be better used at the crossing points. 

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2 hours ago, RobboM said:

A number of reports following the El Chapo trial point out the utter pointlessness of a wall in tackling drugs entering the USA.

Quote below from one
 

 

 

Drive up to the border with a shit-tonne of drugs, offer the border officer $30,000 to wave you through, done.

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28 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

One of the points made in the BBC report this evening was that a wall would require less bodies to man the border and those could be better used at the crossing points. 

 

Trump during his presser today, went on about how after the wall is built, there won't be the need to have so many border guards, he then quickly realised that there were border guard representaives in the audience and what he'd effectively just said was that you guys are out of a job once the wall is built, he then quickly said that they could be reassigned to other duties.  You could almost see him squirming at the realisation of what he'd just said.

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21 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Trump during his presser today, went on about how after the wall is built, there won't be the need to have so many border guards, he then quickly realised that there were border guard representaives in the audience and what he'd effectively just said was that you guys are out of a job once the wall is built, he then quickly said that they could be reassigned to other duties.  You could almost see him squirming at the realisation of what he'd just said.

 

One of the reporters commented after was that his whole presentation was a typical Trump no tele prompt just right off the cuff Trump nonsense with no facts just what he though necessary to say, the truth be damned. I hope Colbert got to watch it I need a good laugh.

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Francis Albert

How come I missed the outrage all over the media and for that matter on here when the first 700 miles of border fences were built? It may be a stupid and ineffective idea and a waste of money (though in US public spending terms it is a drop in the ocean) but Trump's little vanity wall or fence is hardly a new horror. 

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Trump's insanity was on full display with that address. Slavered a load of pish before getting to announce a national emergency that he then bizarrely claimed he didn't have to do. Claiming generals had said his wall was more important than their own budget. Total bs, along with calling his own govt's crime stats lies and that he's already building the wall (no you're not Donnie). Unhinged. 

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9 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

How come I missed the outrage all over the media and for that matter on here when the first 700 miles of border fences were built? It may be a stupid and ineffective idea and a waste of money (though in US public spending terms it is a drop in the ocean) but Trump's little vanity wall or fence is hardly a new horror. 

 

Might have something to do with that it wasn't plastered front and centre all over the media day in day out, speech after speech such as the current President does, maybe the reason there wasn't the outrage in the media and on here was because other Presidents just quitely got on with building it and for the most part attracted little attention, whereas this President has done the opposite and made it front page news, maybe that's why Trump's wall receives so much attention, because it is front page news.

 

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The Real Maroonblood
12 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Might have something to do with that it wasn't plastered front and centre all over the media day in day out, speech after speech such as the current President does, maybe the reason there wasn't the outrage in the media and on here was because other Presidents just quitely got on with building it and for the most part attracted little attention, whereas this President has done the opposite and made it front page news, maybe that's why Trump's wall receives so much attention, because it is front page news.

 

Exactly, but some choose to ignore the obvious.

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16 hours ago, Ugly American said:

 

1/3 of the border has substantial fencing, which up until recently was different from what Trump was insisting upon, that being 30 ft. tall solid concrete.

 

The reason not to "finish the job" is that much of the unfenced border runs through extremely remote places where basically no one crosses anyway because it's easier to get over the fenced portion -- to go through them for many folks would be the distance equivalent of going through the Chunnel and hopping a ship up the west coast in order to go from Edinburgh to Glasgow. 

 

Nevermind that for far less than the cost of building the silly thing, we could actually help stabilize democracy in the Central American countries where we sent death squads, reducing the demand for northern migration in the first place.

 

The CBP officer is worth listening to if you take at face value the notion that the best response to the current situation is only aggressive enforcement of the border as a fortification rather than as a political boundary between two neighbors. Which is kind of the point.

 

Added to all of this, pumas and other wild animals migrate through these areas.

 

Additionally, fencing has been built over Native American burial grounds with predictable results.

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20 minutes ago, Stokesy said:

 

Added to all of this, pumas and other wild animals migrate through these areas.

 

Additionally, fencing has been built over Native American burial grounds with predictable results.

 

A haunted fence?  :peepwall:

 

There's a movie in there somewhere.

 

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12 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

How come I missed the outrage all over the media and for that matter on here when the first 700 miles of border fences were built? It may be a stupid and ineffective idea and a waste of money (though in US public spending terms it is a drop in the ocean) but Trump's little vanity wall or fence is hardly a new horror. 

Nice to see you taking an argumentative stance, its not like you.

 

You know the answer to your question but you continue to enjoy throwing out these statements and then crying foul.

 

Anyway back on topic, Trumps latest address in an instant gave enough legal grounds to stop it when he essentially admitted it wasnt an emergency, about 5mins after stating what he was going to do.

 

Clearly he cant stay on script.

 

Edited by Jamboelite
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Francis Albert
Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Might have something to do with that it wasn't plastered front and centre all over the media day in day out, speech after speech such as the current President does, maybe the reason there wasn't the outrage in the media and on here was because other Presidents just quitely got on with building it and for the most part attracted little attention, whereas this President has done the opposite and made it front page news, maybe that's why Trump's wall receives so much attention, because it is front page news.

 

Right. Trump would have got away with it if he had just done it quietly.

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1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

Right. Trump would have got away with it if he had just done it quietly.

 

It's not a case of getting away with anything, it's more a case of not making such a song & dance about it and drawing attention to the wall at every opportunity such as he does.

Trump has admitted that he could have got the funding for it but spread over a longer time, but that wasn't good enough for him, and the reason for that, imo, is that Trump wants it all about him, he wants the wall built totally on his watch so he can say I got it built this is my wall, what he doesn't want is for people to say, this is the wall Trump started but XYZ finished.

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41 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Right. Trump would have got away with it if he had just done it quietly.

 

The root of Trumps problem is that he spent most of his campaign stating, not suggesting that he would have a 30ft beautiful c oncrete wall built along the southern U.S. border and that Mexico would pay for it. It seemed an excellent idea to his base, but somewhat crumbled when the Mexican President in excellent English, told him to "F..K OFF". He is now struggling to keep at least part of his promise and talking about using money that is apportioned for the military to build houses, schools, and other facilities for the people he calls heroes. He is also talking about taking money from Disaster Relief, a situation to assist after a real emergency.

 

I know you state you are not a supporter of Trump, but you sure sound like it, and check Anne Coulter's statement, he is taking ac tion that only satisfies the lower intellected  people of his base.

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maroonlegions
5 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

:illogical:

 

 

Organized together with renowned curator Pedro Alonzo—known for his previous work with Os Gemeos, Shepherd Fairey, Banksy, and Swoon—the piece uses a human face to strike a chord about immigration between the United States and Mexico.

 

Given President Trump’s recent announcement to rescind DACA, which protects undocumented immigrants who were brought to America as children, the subject is all the more timely and powerful.

 
:greggy:

 

 

 

Edited by maroonlegions
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6 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

Hope this pisses off the racists and Trump apologists.

 

Stunning.

 

 

 

Where as Trump is undesirable the failure to call out those who use children in the operations to cross the border are organised crime.

 

They are rich powerful businessmen.

 

Check your headlines gadge

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1 hour ago, jake said:

Where as Trump is undesirable the failure to call out those who use children in the operations to cross the border are organised crime.

 

They are rich powerful businessmen.

 

Check your headlines gadge

 

I won't argue with you Jake but there are literally a few thousand children who have been taken from their parents while crossing the border. They are in what is basically detention camps for children, if they can be reunited with their family which in many cases because of lac k of proper records is not always going to be possible, what is the percentage for organised crime in bringing them in and for  what purpose.

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3 hours ago, jake said:

Where as Trump is undesirable the failure to call out those who use children in the operations to cross the border are organised crime.

 

They are rich powerful businessmen.

 

Check your headlines gadge

Drugs are big business in America, advertising everywhere.

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Francis Albert
8 hours ago, bobsharp said:

 

The root of Trumps problem is that he spent most of his campaign stating, not suggesting that he would have a 30ft beautiful c oncrete wall built along the southern U.S. border and that Mexico would pay for it. It seemed an excellent idea to his base, but somewhat crumbled when the Mexican President in excellent English, told him to "F..K OFF". He is now struggling to keep at least part of his promise and talking about using money that is apportioned for the military to build houses, schools, and other facilities for the people he calls heroes. He is also talking about taking money from Disaster Relief, a situation to assist after a real emergency.

 

I know you state you are not a supporter of Trump, but you sure sound like it, and check Anne Coulter's statement, he is taking ac tion that only satisfies the lower intellected  people of his base.

Only "lower intellected" people would seriously belleve on the basis of my posts that I was a Trump supporter. 

It is a pity we don't have some real Trump supporters on the thread which would in fact make it more interesting. And challenging.

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34 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Whose fence? Clinton's, Bush's or Obama's?

Trump's. Yesterday's Presidents border is 30 feet inside the one in the picture.

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Francis Albert
Just now, ri Alban said:

Trump's. Yesterday's Presidents border is 30 feet inside the one in the picture.

Thanks. Wasn't aware Trump for all his bombast had yet built any wall or fence other than a few yards of trial designs.

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19 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Thanks. Wasn't aware Trump for all his bombast had yet built any wall or fence other than a few yards of trial designs.

You do now.

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Francis Albert
Just now, ri Alban said:

You do now.

Not sure I do. There has been some ongoing "improvement" and reinforcing of fences but I am not sure if any new wall or fences have been built. In any case at most very marginal increase to what was already there under Clinton Bush and Obama.

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52 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Not sure I do. There has been some ongoing "improvement" and reinforcing of fences but I am not sure if any new wall or fences have been built. In any case at most very marginal increase to what was already there under Clinton Bush and Obama.

The 'Wall' will possibly be his downfall. The Vets and Rednecks will be raging that he's betrayed them. That money was for the Vets.

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1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

The 'Wall' will possibly be his downfall. The Vets and Rednecks will be raging that he's betrayed them. That money was for the Vets.

 

Actually a good portion of the money is apportioned to serving military personnel. It is being put towards the needed facilities for those serving, such as married quarters housing, schools for the kids etc. I am sure though as you say there is some for those who have served, a phrase Trump cannot use. The Wall as you say will be part of his downfall, but as those investigating his heroes the MAFIA say, follow the money and that will be the major component to his ultimate and undoubted fall in total disgrace.

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23 minutes ago, bobsharp said:

 

Actually a good portion of the money is apportioned to serving military personnel. It is being put towards the needed facilities for those serving, such as married quarters housing, schools for the kids etc. I am sure though as you say there is some for those who have served, a phrase Trump cannot use. The Wall as you say will be part of his downfall, but as those investigating his heroes the MAFIA say, follow the money and that will be the major component to his ultimate and undoubted fall in total disgrace.

Cheers Bob, I didn't realise it was for active service personnel. Shocking.

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1 hour ago, bobsharp said:

 

Actually a good portion of the money is apportioned to serving military personnel. It is being put towards the needed facilities for those serving, such as married quarters housing, schools for the kids etc. I am sure though as you say there is some for those who have served, a phrase Trump cannot use. The Wall as you say will be part of his downfall, but as those investigating his heroes the MAFIA say, follow the money and that will be the major component to his ultimate and undoubted fall in total disgrace.

 

So Trump secures massive funding from congress on the proviso of rebuilding of the US military, a US military which Trump claimed was in desperate need of rebuilding, and what does he do, he redirects funds away from the rebuilding of the US military to fund his vanity project instead, and the worst of it is, his base will love him for it nonetheless.

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1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

So Trump secures massive funding from congress on the proviso of rebuilding of the US military, a US military which Trump claimed was in desperate need of rebuilding, and what does he do, he redirects funds away from the rebuilding of the US military to fund his vanity project instead, and the worst of it is, his base will love him for it nonetheless.

 

Watched a woman I missed where she was a politician, but she is third generation military, and is an Air Force veteran. She recently visited one of the airfields where she was raised as a kid and her Dad was serving. She says that airfield is in need of new hangars, and a lot of runway work, and that was provided for in the appropriation, which Trump is going to use for his wall.

His nominee for U.N. Ambassador has withdrawn her nomination because of she claims nanny problems. It seems her nanny is undocumented, and she as a former reporter on Fox News and of course a strong Trump supporter on Immigration. The commentator reporting suggested that is not justification for standing down, Trump is President and his facilities have and probably still do employ many undocumented immigrants.

Edited by bobsharp
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  • Maple Leaf changed the title to U.S. Politics megathread (merged)
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