Astronomy / The Universe

[Cade]

Science at the cutting edge (especially physics) doesn't really provide answers, just poses more questions.

 

Every time we make a breakthrough it uncovers some other mysteries to solve.

 

Most of our understanding, models and equations only really work in the stable middle ground of physics.

 

At the very large scale, gravity and dark matter/energy make our understanding fall down and everything we know stops working.

And at the very small scale (quantum mechanics), everything we know stops working.

 

We are still only stumbling around in the dark. It's very exciting thinking of what we will achieve in the next few decades.

[Unknown user]

3 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

Which is exactly why Einstein is probably the most famous scientist of all time to this day. Who doesn't know his face? Would most know Newtons face?

 

I'm not sure that's a great point, Newton lived 200 years before cameras were putting photos in mass media.

[JFK-1]

18 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm not sure that's a great point, Newton lived 200 years before cameras were putting photos in mass media.

 

I'm not sure what you mean. You think Einstein is famous because he was photographed? But that aside I think it should be mentioned that many scientists in the field think that Newton was an even greater genius than Einstein.

Some had already tried to do what he did but they couldn't because the math was simply too fiendish for want of a better word. Newton initially couldn't do it either, he was hitting the same wall the rest did.

But unlike them he didn't stop there, he broke through the wall by inventing a whole new branch of mathematics, calculus.
 

Quote

 

Isaac Newton changed the world when he invented Calculus in 1665. We take this for granted today, but what Newton accomplished at the age of 24 is simply astonishing.

Calculus has uses in physics, chemistry, biology, economics, pure mathematics, all branches of engineering, and more.  Its not an overstatement to say Newton's insight in the development of calculus has truly revolutionized our ability to pursue new branches of science and engineering.

 It is used in problems when a quantity changes as a function of time, which is how most problems behave in reality.  

When he invented calculus and outlined its uses, Isaac Newton made one of the most important breakthroughs in mathematics history, and it's still vital to this day. 

 

 

These guys seem to hit their peak mid 20's. Einstein published around 25. And, a photograph of Newton. 😉

[Unknown user]

3 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I'm not sure what you mean. You think Einstein is famous because he was photographed? 

 

"Would most know Newtons face?"

 

Is that because he's unknown or because he predates photography?

[moz]

My lad was given an Astromaster 114 by one of my pals, good enough bit if kit to see the actual craters on the moon ,on a clear night!

 

Anyone know of any clubs or such up here that meet ?....would like to bring him along with the telescope to see how best to set it up , and what to watch and when etc

[hughesie27]

30 minutes ago, moz said:

My lad was given an Astromaster 114 by one of my pals, good enough bit if kit to see the actual craters on the moon ,on a clear night!

 

Anyone know of any clubs or such up here that meet ?....would like to bring him along with the telescope to see how best to set it up , and what to watch and when etc

Sure there's regular events at the royal observatory.

[Bigsmak]

4 hours ago, moz said:

My lad was given an Astromaster 114 by one of my pals, good enough bit if kit to see the actual craters on the moon ,on a clear night!

 

Anyone know of any clubs or such up here that meet ?....would like to bring him along with the telescope to see how best to set it up , and what to watch and when etc

 

There was an Edinburgh astronomy club. Not sure if it still runs. Google it. I met with a few of them years ago and they let me play with their big scopes. 

 

 

[Ominous]

15 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I'm not sure what you mean. You think Einstein is famous because he was photographed? But that aside I think it should be mentioned that many scientists in the field think that Newton was an even greater genius than Einstein.

Some had already tried to do what he did but they couldn't because the math was simply too fiendish for want of a better word. Newton initially couldn't do it either, he was hitting the same wall the rest did.

But unlike them he didn't stop there, he broke through the wall by inventing a whole new branch of mathematics, calculus.
 

 

These guys seem to hit their peak mid 20's. Einstein published around 25. And, a photograph of Newton. 😉

He looks a bit like that nob Jeremy Vine.

[Cade]

 

[JFK-1]

Not astronomy/universe exactly but definitely science with the woman in the video giving a 16 minute presentation titled 'Can we see time? - Welcome to the world of synesthesia'

Synesthesia is a condition I had known about for a long time but this woman presented forms of it I had never heard of before. Including actually seeing time pass by.

Some can see a year pass by, the year is broken into different colours they see as it progresses. It occurred to me that migratory animals may have this type of thing going on and that's what tells them when to get moving along.

Out of curiosity do any of you out there have any form of this condition? I would love to be able to see music. And who knows, that may be possible for future generations with a little genetic tinkering.
 

 

[Cade]

Heavy Booster 4 with all 29 Raptor engines in place, being readied for a test firing.

 

[Hmfc1965]

On 30/11/2021 at 13:53, Bigsmak said:

 

There was an Edinburgh astronomy club. Not sure if it still runs. Google it. I met with a few of them years ago and they let me play with their big scopes. 

 

 

It does. A friend of mine is heavily involved. 

I think the meetings are monthly in a church on George IV Bridge but they're also online. 

[hughesie27]

Geminids Meteor Shower on right now (peaking at 2/3am)

 

Had a look just there for 10 mins and seen nout.

[Maple Leaf]

3 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

Geminids Meteor Shower on right now (peaking at 2/3am)

 

Had a look just there for 10 mins and seen nout.

 

Meteor showers are vastly overrated.   Even the "spectacular" ones consist of nothing more than a momentary streak of light every 60 seconds or so.

[JFK-1]

The James Webb space telescope has now been hoisted into place atop the Ariane-5 rocket. Seems there's been a snag, but nothing serious, hopefully.

Given what we could discover from this telescope I was thinking this has to be the most historic launch since Apollo 11 took Neil Armstrong and co. to the moon. And potentially infinitely more world changing.
 

Quote

Lift-off had been scheduled for Wednesday 22 December, but issues related to the electrical interface between Webb and the rocket following mating mean the ascent to space won't now happen before Friday 24 December. FULL ARTICLE

 

[Cade]

A delay with the JWST?

 

Surely not(!)

 

 

I'm still about 50% convinced it'll blow up on the launch pad.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Cade

[Cade]

 

[JFK-1]

Apparently they found what's suspected to be the oldest Martian rocks so far discovered. 

Nasa's Perseverance Mars rover finds its 'baseline' rocks 

[Rogue Daddy]

On 12/12/2021 at 08:05, JFK-1 said:

Not astronomy/universe exactly but definitely science with the woman in the video giving a 16 minute presentation titled 'Can we see time? - Welcome to the world of synesthesia'

Synesthesia is a condition I had known about for a long time but this woman presented forms of it I had never heard of before. Including actually seeing time pass by.

Some can see a year pass by, the year is broken into different colours they see as it progresses. It occurred to me that migratory animals may have this type of thing going on and that's what tells them when to get moving along.

Out of curiosity do any of you out there have any form of this condition? I would love to be able to see music. And who knows, that may be possible for future generations with a little genetic tinkering.
 

 

I'll need to watch this later... synesthesia is bizarre.. I don't think it's limited to seeing colours - other forms are IIRC smelling sounds, tasting smells (or something like that, I think!)

I also, remember watching a documentary where dragonfly's are believed to be able to see/slow down time - it's why their reactions appear so quick.

[JFK-1]

9 hours ago, Rogue Daddy said:

I'll need to watch this later... synesthesia is bizarre.. I don't think it's limited to seeing colours - other forms are IIRC smelling sounds, tasting smells (or something like that, I think!)

I also, remember watching a documentary where dragonfly's are believed to be able to see/slow down time - it's why their reactions appear so quick.

 

The colours thing is interesting to me. It's hypothesised that all of our prehistoric ancestors may had some form of this going on. But it's a sense that most of us began to lose over time as our technology improved and we gathered in ever larger numbers. Predators for example became less of an everyday threat.

But imagine being a human ancestor out there on the African plains a couple of million years or so ago. You look up and your eye catches something red creeping around in the long grass a couple of hundred yards or so away. An ambush being prepared. But you have something like an internal radar highlighting where the threat is.

If you have this thing in a form that say makes you see dangerous predators as a bright red even when a safe distance away you have a massive advantage over anyone who does not have that facility. And that's what evolution is all about. 

[JFK-1]

Looks like the James Webb telescope is going to launch early Xmas morning and will take a month to reach the target parking spot. Taking a month puzzled me since I knew escape velocity is around 25,000mph. It wouldn't take a month or anything like it to travel a million miles at that speed.

Seems the month will be spent simply slowing down to come to a halt at the parking point. Saw it described as like giving say a skate board not on wheels but on many well oiled ball bearings a good push up a slight incline and presuming it just travelled in a straight line watching it gradually slow down. And stop precisely where you want it to.

[Unknown user]

On 12/12/2021 at 08:05, JFK-1 said:

Not astronomy/universe exactly but definitely science with the woman in the video giving a 16 minute presentation titled 'Can we see time? - Welcome to the world of synesthesia'

Synesthesia is a condition I had known about for a long time but this woman presented forms of it I had never heard of before. Including actually seeing time pass by.

Some can see a year pass by, the year is broken into different colours they see as it progresses. It occurred to me that migratory animals may have this type of thing going on and that's what tells them when to get moving along.

Out of curiosity do any of you out there have any form of this condition? I would love to be able to see music. And who knows, that may be possible for future generations with a little genetic tinkering.
 

 

 

Tried to pm you but you can't accept them

Edited December 22, 2021 by Smithee

[maroonlegions]

NASA Hires Priests To Prepare Humans For Contact With Aliens

 

NASA Hires Priests To Prepare Humans For Contact With Aliens.

Can't recall anything in the Bible about Aliens.. Or was there, obviously not read the Bible but cant recall any of  a Aliens slant or rants  or hint  in Christianity"s  preaching and teachings?? 

 

NASA website link, below , its no a wind up..  

 

https://www.unilad.co.uk/science/nasa-hires-priests-to-prepare-humans-for-contact-with-aliens/

 

 

 

BY : POPPY BILDERBECK ON : 28 DEC 2021 16:28

 

University of Cambridge Corpus Christi College/Alamy

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration has called upon a priest and other religious experts to prepare Earth for a possible alien encounter. 

NASA has enlisted the advice and expertise of 24 theologians to help predict how various cultures and religions from different parts of the world would react to alien contact.

 

In 2014, Princeton University’s Center for Theological Inquiry (CTI) in New Jersey was given a $1.1 million grant, which is where the research is now set to take place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by maroonlegions

[Ked]

3 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

NASA Hires Priests To Prepare Humans For Contact With Aliens

 

NASA Hires Priests To Prepare Humans For Contact With Aliens.

Can't recall anything in the Bible about Aliens.. Or was there, obviously not read the Bible but cant recall any of  a Aliens slanyt or hint  in Christianity"s  preaching and teachings?? 

 

NASA website link, its no a wind up..  

 

BY : POPPY BILDERBECK ON : 28 DEC 2021 16:28

 

University of Cambridge Corpus Christi College/Alamy

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration has called upon a priest and other religious experts to prepare Earth for a possible alien encounter. 

NASA has enlisted the advice and expertise of 24 theologians to help predict how various cultures and religions from different parts of the world would react to alien contact.

 

In 2014, Princeton University’s Center for Theological Inquiry (CTI) in New Jersey was given a $1.1 million grant, which is where the research is now set to take place.

 

 

 

 

I'm reminded of a certain meme related to covid.

 

[maroonlegions]

8 minutes ago, Ked said:

I'm reminded of a certain meme related to covid.

 

What meme was that.

 

The James Webb space telescope was launched on December 26 allowing a pair of 'fresh eyes' in the sky that will be humanity's main space telescope over the ageing Hubble space telescope which will allow corners of the universe to be visible that were unobservable to us before this.

 

According to The Times, Davison’s book notes that a “large number of people would turn to their religions traditions for guidance” if extraterrestrials were found, and what that means “for the standing and dignity of human life.”

[Ked]

1 minute ago, maroonlegions said:

What meme was that.

 

The James Webb space telescope was launched on December 26 allowing a pair of 'fresh eyes' in the sky that will be humanity's main space telescope over the ageing Hubble space telescope which will allow corners of the universe to be visible that were unobservable to us before this.

 

According to The Times, Davison’s book notes that a “large number of people would turn to their religions traditions for guidance” if extraterrestrials were found, and what that means “for the standing and dignity of human life.”

It's an interesting question for religion no doubt.

 

The meme was not appropriate mate .

 

[maroonlegions]

5 minutes ago, Ked said:

It's an interesting question for religion no doubt.

 

The meme was not appropriate mate .

 

 What was that memes  content?? That made it non appropriate?? 

[JFK-1]

There is going to be no alien contact as a result of the JWT. The main objective is show us the earliest stars. There will be no life at that stage of the universe. I think even Hubble gave us a glimpse, and that glimpse was enough to encourage the time and expense on the JWT.

Hubble showed us stars were indeed there several hundred million years after the big bang event. But that's all it showed. Just pinpoints of light we can derive nothing from aside from the fact it's there. JWT will give us infinitely more information about these stars. Either confirming our  theories, or telling us you need to rework that theory.

Another objective is look for exoplanets with signs of life. Life could be anything, bacteria. We need religious guys to talk to us about alien bacteria?

Edited December 29, 2021 by JFK-1

[Jambo_jim2001]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

There is going to be no alien contact as a result of the JWT. The main objective is show us the earliest stars. There will be no life at that stage of the universe. I think even Hubble gave us a glimpse, and that glimpse was enough to encourage the time and expense on the JWT.

Hubble showed us stars were indeed there several hundred million years after the big bang event. But that's all it showed. Just pinpoints of light we can derive nothing from aside from the fact it's there. JWT will give us infinitely more information about these stars. Either confirming our  theories, or telling us you need to rework that theory.

Another objective is look for exoplanets with signs of life. Life could be anything, bacteria. We need religious guys to talk to us about alien bacteria?

JWT will probably give us more questions than answers,lookin forward though to the images of the early universes,big bang or big fizz??

[JFK-1]

3 hours ago, Jambo_jim2001 said:

JWT will probably give us more questions than answers,lookin forward though to the images of the early universes,big bang or big fizz??

 

Wouldn't be surprised if it opens another can of worms. Even Apollo did. Prior to that we imagined the moon was captured. Afterwards we had to develop a new theory due toi the rock findings. The giant impact theory which I believe is now the consensus.

I'm still not sure how far back it can see, maybe even NASA aren't sure. Can it see beyond the earliest stars all the way to the so called 'dark ages'? Like we could potentially see the very first star?

I'm struggling to imagine it could actually pick out an individual star that far back. Maybe it can, I don't know. But i'm thinking more along the lines of seeing galaxies.

If that were the case, and presuming we could see the earliest galaxies, then I would further expect important details crucial to advancing our physics may be derived from the distribution alone. 

[Cade]

That's the thing with space exploration.

 

We have lots of theories about how things are, based on our observations.

 

Then we get better technology and observe things better, and it usually turns everything we know on its head.

 

Just look at what we found on Pluto, for the most recent example.

[maroonlegions]

6 hours ago, Cade said:

That's the thing with space exploration.

 

We have lots of theories about how things are, based on our observations.

 

Then we get better technology and observe things better, and it usually turns everything we know on its head.

 

Just look at what we found on Pluto, for the most recent example.

Correct..  This is were i am.

 

This finding also through up a very big surprise.

 

No one knows at the present moment if indeed exo planets  do have intelligent life forms that are well advanced than us.

 

 

  This discovery said that the laws of physics as science knows at present could very well be condensed to were we are in the universe  suit and the laws of physics could be different   in other parts of the universe.

 

 

The VLT in Chile was responsible for this discovery.

 

 

 

 

 

New evidence supports the idea that we live in an area of the universe that is “just right” for our existence. The controversial finding comes from an observation that one of the constants of nature appears to be different in different parts of the cosmos.

 

If correct, this result stands against Einstein’s equivalence principle, which states that the laws of physics are the same everywhere.

 

“This finding was a real surprise to everyone,” says John Webb of the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia. Webb is lead author on the new paper, which has been submitted to Physical Review Letters.

 

Even more surprising is the fact that the change in the constant appears to have an orientation, creating a “preferred direction”, or axis, across the cosmos. That idea was dismissed more than 100 years ago with the creation of Einstein’s special theory of relativity.

 

 

 

At the centre of the new study is the fine structure constant, also known as alpha. This number determines the strength of interactions between light and matter.

 

A decade ago, Webb used observations from the Keck telescope in Hawaii to analyse the light from distant galaxies called quasars. The data suggested that the value of alpha was very slightly smaller when the quasar light was emitted 12 billion years ago than it appears in laboratories on Earth today.

 

Now Webb’s colleague Julian King, also of the University of New South Wales, has analysed data from the Very Large Telescope (VLT) in Chile, which looks at a different region of the sky. The VLT data suggests that the value of alpha elsewhere in the universe is very slightly bigger than on Earth.

 

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19429-laws-of-physics-may-change-across-the-universe/#ixzz7GYNyp7v9

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19429-laws-of-physics-may-change-across-the-universe/#ixzz7GYM3Ax67

 

 

 

Indications of a spatial variation of the fine structure constant

J. K. Webb, J. A. King, M. T. Murphy, V. V. Flambaum, R. F. Carswell, M. B. Bainbridge

We previously reported Keck telescope observations suggesting a smaller value of the fine structure constant, alpha, at high redshift. New Very Large Telescope (VLT) data, probing a different direction in the universe, shows an inverse evolution; alpha increases at high redshift. Although the pattern could be due to as yet undetected systematic effects, with the systematics as presently understood the combined dataset fits a spatial dipole, significant at the 4.2-sigma level, in the direction right ascension 17.5 +/- 0.9 hours, declination -58 +/- 9 degrees. The independent VLT and Keck samples give consistent dipole directions and amplitudes, as do high and low redshift samples. A search for systematics, using observations duplicated at both telescopes, reveals none so far which emulate this result.

Comments:	5 pages, 5 figures, published on 31st October 2011 in Physical Review Letters
Subjects:	Cosmology and Nongalactic Astrophysics (astro-ph.CO); General Relativity and Quantum Cosmology (gr-qc); High Energy Physics - Phenomenology (hep-ph); High Energy Physics - Theory (hep-th); Nuclear Theory (nucl-th); Atomic Physics (physics.atom-ph)
Journal reference:	Phys. Rev. Lett., 107, 191101, 2011
DOI:	10.1103/PhysRevLett.107.191101
Cite as:

Edited December 30, 2021 by maroonlegions

[JFK-1]

WHERE IS WEBB

 

Incidentally I noted from that NASA link that the telescope is currently travelling at a speed of around 1,700mph. That's slow, we can make shit go faster than that right here in the atmosphere on Earth.

Another thing, it's almost 47% of the way there so almost halfway there. But nothing like halfway there in terms of the time left before reaching the parking spot.

This telescope is going to gradually become even slower. Wondering how long it will take to fall below 1,000mph, and how far away it will be at that point.

Edited December 31, 2021 by JFK-1

[Cade]

JWST is more or less coasting to the final orbit position.

 

When it's on station and working, it'll have to do lots of little thruster burns to adjust and stay on station, and the scientists wanted it to save as much fuel as possible so the project can stay operational for longer.

 

They're all very happy right now, as the Arianne V rocket dropped it off so accurately both in terms of orbit position and delta v (which means speed), that it's been able to get away with only a couple of tiny wee positional burns and can coast the rest of the way.

 

The project leads all think that JWST has ten years or so of fuel left on board, which was more than they had expected.

 

 

[Bigsmak]

Surely in 10 years we will have the capability to fly up there and refuel it.

 

I'm basing this assumption on the private companies pressing forward with innovations. 

[maroonlegions]

Wow.

 

 

[maroonlegions]

And again.. If not a black hole then what??

 

 

 

[Pap]

On 30/12/2021 at 11:00, Cade said:

That's the thing with space exploration.

 

We have lots of theories about how things are, based on our observations.

 

Then we get better technology and observe things better, and it usually turns everything we know on its head.

 

Just look at what we found on Pluto, for the most recent example.

 

What is it we found on Pluto?

[Footballfirst]

On 31/12/2021 at 10:52, Cade said:

The project leads all think that JWST has ten years or so of fuel left on board, which was more than they had expected.

Looks like they have more than 10 years worth of fuel left.

 

 

[Cade]

30 minutes ago, Pap said:

 

What is it we found on Pluto?

 

This is what Hubble saw of Pluto.

This is all we had to go on.

 

 

 

And this is what New Horizons saw when it actually went there.

 

 

We also learned a ton about how the planet worked

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/five-years-after-new-horizons-historic-flyby-here-are-10-cool-things-we-learned-about-plut-0

[JFK-1]

7 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Looks like they have more than 10 years worth of fuel left.

 

 

 

Good news, but leaves me wandering what's "significantly more" Years more? And who is controlling these course correction burns? NASA? ESA?

[maroonlegions]

Interesting..

 

These "rouge" planets have no  parent star,sun, to orbit around so just roam freely on their own.

 

Astronomers uncover largest group of rogue planets yet

Date:

December 22, 2021

Source:

ESO

Summary:

Rogue planets are elusive cosmic objects that have masses comparable to those of the planets in our Solar System but do not orbit a star, instead roaming freely on their own. Not many were known until now, but a team of astronomers, using data from several European Southern Observatory (ESO) telescopes and other facilities, have just discovered at least 70 new rogue planets in our galaxy. This is the largest group of rogue planets ever discovered, an important step towards understanding the origins and features of these mysterious galactic nomads.

 

link.  https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/12/211222153104.htm

Edited January 4, 2022 by maroonlegions

[Cade]

 

 

 

[JFK-1]

Looks quite devastating. Undersea volcano, must have created a gigantic cloud of steam.

[Cade]

 

[JFK-1]

This video was taken by people standing on a beach someplace relatively far from Tonga, hundreds of miles at least. The video title says it's people in Tonga, believe me it isn't. If it were in Tonga it would have been a lot more severe than even this.

The major sound wave when it comes is really huge, it had been preceded by a number of less earth shattering booms. So keep in mind, this is from hundreds of miles away, and when that first really major boom comes they absolutely crap it.

Makes me wonder if anybody say a hundred miles away took a video. And there must indeed be videos actually in Tonga when it blew big time which just haven't got out yet with the cable being cut.
 

 

[Cade]

 

[John Gentleman]

On 02/01/2022 at 05:37, Footballfirst said:

Looks like they have more than 10 years worth of fuel left.

 

 

They always issue original type-design forecasts on the conservative side. For instance, Hubble's type-design was 15 years and it's now exceeded 30. They think it'll carry on well past 2030, perhaps as far as 2040. Handy to have around since the JWST is (almost) designed exclusively for 'scoping the infrared spectrum.  

[Cade]

 

[Cade]

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Cade