'Offside' goal

[Shaggy2]

It's not upsetting me at all mate honestly, I'm just trying to help you in your understanding of the offside rule and what constitutes interfering with play because you obviously don't have a clue, if you do a bit of officiating on the side then i feel sorry for the poor guys who have to put up with you as linesman.

I think we ALL accept there's been a mistake made. Some are more accepting of it than others.

 

Me? It was a game changer that went against Hearts, so I'm fecking upset (about the decision, not your debate about understanding offside) and don't care who knows it!!!

[Seymour M Hersh]

Watch the highlights video - Djoum plays it back to Paterson so he's entitled to take a shot from close range there

 

Not seen the moving pics but that still made me think pass it CP ffs. 

[Pistol1874]

Actually just watched the highlights that's been put up and its even more understandable why the call was made, those still picture are very misleading.

Misleading in that, at the precise moment the ball was played, it shows exactly where everyone was standing?

[michael_bolton]

Misleading in that, at the precise moment the ball was played, it shows exactly where everyone was standing?

 

Misleading in that looking at a still picture doesn't show the brain the same thing as looking at a moving image.

 

Many decisions in football look easy when you turn them into a still.

[glastonbury jambo]

I genuinely thought he was offside however the first pic is conclusive and he's on, no doubt about it.

 

We were pretty timid after that however even the biased sevco commentators said we were getting a foothold in the game at that point.

 

If this was the EPL the ***** would be dropped like a hot potato!

 

MB - the linesman was looking directly along the line! We were looking at it from a crap camera angle on TV. Some on here have said they knew people sitting inline with it who've all said it was on.

Yeah looks on...but hey ho.

[Pistol1874]

Misleading in that looking at a still picture doesn't show the brain the same thing as looking at a moving image.

 

Many decisions in football look easy when you turn them into a still.

It shows precisely where the players were at the point in time the ball was played and, therefore, when the decision requires to be made. It is fact.

The moving images may be confusing, the photo certainly isn't.

[Mac80]

Not sure why the ref would thing djoum is interfering..

[michael_bolton]

It shows precisely where the players were at the point in time the ball was played and, therefore, when the decision requires to be made. It is fact.

The moving images may be misleading, the photo certainly isn't.

 

Depends how you look at it.

 

Obviously not misleading as to the facts of the situation, but misleading as to what the incident actually looked like. And that's what matters when someone is deciding to put their flag up or not.

 

As I said before, I reckon the amount of space Cowie had basically on the goal line just made the goal look weird and spooked the linesman. It does look like a strange goal. The still image gives no sense of context. That's what I meant.

[kimosavi]

 

He was onside

 

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[Mikey1874]

On this thread nobody was sure if it was onside or offside until we saw a paused image from the tv. The linesman didn't have that at the time. It's a confusing scene. Players half on the pitch, half off it. Players moving towards goal and away from it. It happened quite quickly.

 

A tough call which he got wrong.

 

That's life. Wasn't at the game myself, but it sounds like we were poor. Can't defend like we did for the second then get all worked up about a marginal offside call.

Overall Rangers were worthy winners

 

The goal was vitually our only good bit of play the whole game

 

However had the goal stood it's a different game. 1-0 up perhaps we can settle. Rangers maybe start to lose the plot.

 

So it is a big deal

[michael_bolton]

Overall Rangers were worthy winners

 

The goal was vitually our only good bit of play the whole game

 

However had the goal stood it's a different game. 1-0 up perhaps we can settle. Rangers maybe start to lose the plot.

 

So it is a big deal

 

Of course it's a big deal. Being 1-0 up instead of going 1-0 down is obviously very important.

 

But what do you want to do? Shoot the linesman? He made a mistake.

[Jammy T]

Was this linesman the one from the lodge?

[TheBigO]

 

He was onside at ibrox

 

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Is all that matters. But still... Ftfy

[dc-jambo]

Was this linesman the one from the lodge?

 

Yes

 

I am personally seething because I went through yesterday knowing that the guy had been 'outed' on Bear Den. And that they'd taken it down off that site when it appeared here -- lending credence to it.

 

Then reading in the Glasgow F(%&?^ Herald this morning that there was 'symmetry' because their offside goal got called at Tynie, same as our onside one got called at Ibrox.

 

I am telling the wife this morning that I don't want to degenerate into a slavering conspiracy theorist, but today I am RAGING

 

As I said earlier, that goal could've changed the course of the game

[Mikey1874]

The delay was because of?

 

No flag at time? What changed?

[DETTY29]

Keeper on line and player with foot a couple of inches from bye line.

 

It's virtually impossible to be offside.

[Mikey1874]

Of course it's a big deal. Being 1-0 up instead of going 1-0 down is obviously very important.

 

But what do you want to do? Shoot the linesman? He made a mistake.

It's good to move on of course.

 

But it's valid to question why this clearly onside goal wasn't given.

 

Was it a mistake or incompetence?

 

Is Beaton a ref that favours Rangers cos he wants to?

[CollyWolly]

just a question. Is Cowie allowed to rejoin play like that from off the pitch ?That was my first thought when the goal was ruled out. He certainly isn't offside when that ball is played.

[Mikey1874]

just a question. Is Cowie allowed to rejoin play like that from off the pitch ?That was my first thought when the goal was ruled out. He certainly isn't offside when that ball is played.

Interesting

 

Might explain the delay

[stirlingshirejambo]

Not seen the moving pics but that still made me think pass it CP ffs.

He dpicked wrong option several times when moved further forward near the end

Ball fell to his left several times and he swung and missed when more composure would have noticed players in better positions

[DETTY29]

just a question. Is Cowie allowed to rejoin play like that from off the pitch ?That was my first thought when the goal was ruled out. He certainly isn't offside when that ball is played.

Players are allowed to leave field of play to avoid say, being offside, but they need the referees permission to come back on.

 

If they come back on to seek a tactical advantage, the player should be booked.

 

I think.

 

I can't find anything if a player has accidently left field of play and comes back on.

[michael_bolton]

It's good to move on of course.

 

But it's valid to question why this clearly onside goal wasn't given.

 

Was it a mistake or incompetence?

 

Is Beaton a ref that favours Rangers cos he wants to?

 

Do we need to go over all of these questions every time there's a mistake with an offside call?

 

Jings. Talk about tiresome. It's a mistake. That's life.

[Shaggy2]

If momentum carries a player over the boundary of the park, of course he can come back on to rejoin the play. Happens all the time in every match I've ever attended. Re-admitting players who have been injured, or allowing subs to enter the field of play is entirely different.

[RudiHMFC]

Do we need to go over all of these questions every time there's a mistake with an offside call?

 

Jings. Talk about tiresome. It's a mistake. That's life.

Why are you perplexed at folk talking about the goal that should have stood in a big game for us, if your thoughts are 'well that's life what can you do' then fair enough, go away then.

[Gordon Ramsay]

Couldnt care less if it was onside or not.

 

We were completely shite.

 

I hope Cathro can stick a pair of balls on some of them, too many not up for the fight.

[Tommy Brown]

As someone who has run the line i albeit at Amateur/Juvenile level, you are watching ahead of play in anticipation.of a player being offside.

 

You do not suddenly see a goal been scored, pause, then think and decide he must have been offside. .

 

Beaton and Stevenson were mic-ed up, so why did they have to come to face to face? He only needed to say offside. It stinks.

 

Add in the Bears Den comment about the assistant on Friday night, it's hard not to call him a cheat.

[Shaggy2]

Why are you perplexed at folk talking about the goal that should have stood in a big game for us, if your thoughts are 'well that's life what can you do' then fair enough, go away then.

It's funny, I've been on and off facebook this morning thinking I'd maybe see ONE Rangers fan admit to them getting a break but no, they're still saying it was offside and the decisions have evened themselves out. Then I come on here and read "Hearts fans" who won't even concede Rangers got a break, here or on the Walker thread regarding the dive. I know I get carried away regarding genuine debatable calls from time to time with my maroon specs on, but the calls we are discussing today aren't close to debatable imho.

[RudiHMFC]

It's funny, I've been on and off facebook this morning thinking I'd maybe see ONE Rangers fan admit to them getting a break but no, they're still saying it was offside and the decisions have evened themselves out. Then I come on here and read "Hearts fans" who won't even concede Rangers got a break, here or on the Walker thread regarding the dive. I know I get carried away regarding genuine debatable calls from time to time with my maroon specs on, but the calls we are discussing today aren't close to debatable imho.

Rangers fans will think they've been done at Tynecastle even though it was clearly offside, the fact ours is a legitimate goal just won't register with them, they got one disallowed so we should get one disallowed, who cares whether it's the right call or not, that's it evened out in their eyes.

[Bauld]

I think that's an easy call to make. The gers player has his foot near enough on the line when the ball is played.

 

 

It's an easy call because it's impossible for Cowie to be offside at that point.

[D4nny_]

Onside

 

No ******* doubt about it.

[capital city]

If you have played the game or tried being a linesman you would understand that he was absolutely interfering, this is my point, the rules are such that there is no right or wrong, its down to opinion, so there can be no consistency.

Sorry Valdos. I think you had this wrong. Djoum is not part of the next phase. He can't be interfering. Consider ?eltic's first goal at Tynecastle this season. Rogic, I think was in the box and close to the shot which went in but not deemed to be interfering. Djoum was no where near Patersons shot or Cowie. Can't be interfering.

 

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[RussAsia]

Do we need to go over all of these questions every time there's a mistake with an offside call?

 

Jings. Talk about tiresome. It's a mistake. That's life.

 

I think the point is that it should never have been a mistake..

 

People talk about not getting a good view of it on tv.. but so what.. the linesman was directly in line with it.. the call was a disgrace and he should be called up to explain himself or dropped  and an apology issued to Hearts publicly..

 

Linesmen sometimes have difficult decisions to make.. but to be at the top game of the weekend then you would hope that we would get the best officials.. the inability to get that decision correct and in turn have a major bearing on the outcome of the game means that there should be some form of punishment.. demotion to the lower leagues or whatever..

 

It makes it even more of a joke when it's getting compared to Rangers disallowed goal.. what has that got to do with anything.. that was the correct decision.. this was wrong and affected the game.. Warburton managed to claim to be aggrieved at the post match when the right decision was made... on the other hand our goal wasn't even mentioned post match even tho it was a shocking decision..

 

Hearts didn't play well enough to win the game but if we had taken the lead then we might have played differently and who knows what the final outcome would have been..

[DETTY29]

Watched highlights for first time.

 

Djoum actually consciously appears not to come back on to the pitch, in case he gets involved and is flagged.  That said, his foot is on the line and in play, but surely not interfering.

 

Levein should be picking the phone up to John Fleming ask how officials got to both the offside and the Walker booking decisions.

 

As when Fleming promised that either he or Willie Collum would get back to Neilson to explain the penalty award against Celtic in the Scottish Cup, I bet he (Fleming) doesn't. 

 

It's understandable that mistakes can be made, but the Head of Referees has a duty to the game to understand the thought process.  And it is only fair to the clubs that the thought process is relayed back to clubs and players. 

 

If genuine mistakes. are made fair enough, unfortunately I think for both debatable decisions yesterday, it was a case of incompetence at best.

[DETTY29]

I think the point is that it should never have been a mistake..

 

People talk about not getting a good view of it on tv.. but so what.. the linesman was directly in line with it.. the call was a disgrace and he should be called up to explain himself or dropped  and an apology issued to Hearts publicly..

 

Linesmen sometimes have difficult decisions to make.. but to be at the top game of the weekend then you would hope that we would get the best officials.. the inability to get that decision correct and in turn have a major bearing on the outcome of the game means that there should be some form of punishment.. demotion to the lower leagues or whatever..

 

It makes it even more of a joke when it's getting compared to Rangers disallowed goal.. what has that got to do with anything.. that was the correct decision.. this was wrong and affected the game.. Warburton managed to claim to be aggrieved at the post match when the right decision was made... on the other hand our goal wasn't even mentioned post match even tho it was a shocking decision..

 

Hearts didn't play well enough to win the game but if we had taken the lead then we might have played differently and who knows what the final outcome would have been..

Agree.

 

It's not that a difficult decision to come to.

 

When Paterson kicks the ball the keeper is on the line and Wallace a (no more than 3 or four) few inches from it.  If the linesman is on the last defender, i.e virtually the line, in no way can Cowie be offside.  It's nigh on impossible for any Hearts player to be offside, unless one coming back on to the pitch.

 

The next question is whether Djoum is interfering.  His momentum took him off the pitch, he starts to come back on but stops.  Paterson is already in the act of shooting.  In no way was any Rangers player worried about Djoum, only blocking Paterson.  Djoum could only be offside if the ball was played to him.

 

It was a terrible decision.

[busby1985]

Rangers fans I know claiming the photo is photo shopped

[Mac80]

Couldnt care less if it was onside or not.

 

We were completely shite.

 

I hope Cathro can stick a pair of balls on some of them, too many not up for the fight.

100% agree with you mate but you cant dispute it would have changed the whole game

[Maroon Man]

just a question. Is Cowie allowed to rejoin play like that from off the pitch ?That was my first thought when the goal was ruled out. He certainly isn't offside when that ball is played.

This is exactly what I thought at the time too and could be why it was chopped off? Cowie leaves the pitch for a couple of seconds then comes back in to tap the ball in.

[Buffalo Bill]

Looks onside to me but I would never expect Hearts to get a decision like that against Rangers at Ibrox.

[JennytheJambo]

Didn't stop the 'commentator' confirming it definitely was offside.

What would you expect from that lot. The same guy that said it made up from the goal that Rangers were denied at Tynecastle.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

I was speaking to a Rangers' mate in the pub last night and he struck me as being very defensive about the whole thing. He knew I hadn't seen the game, yet he was the one who introduced the offside decision into the conversation and I had to listen to his version as to how the Rangers' defenders were all standing around the six yard line. Doesn't look like it to me. Also, apparently Johnsen should have been sent off for some tackle he had made during the game.

 

I decided by that time to go stare at my feet at the back end of the pub.

[Bring Back Paulo Sergio]

Easiest offside decision he'll have to make in his career. I knew a linesman that was a Hearts fan, he helped us out too.

 

It happens

[DETTY29]

This is exactly what I thought at the time too and could be why it was chopped off? Cowie leaves the pitch for a couple of seconds then comes back in to tap the ball in.

Found an old copy of the FIFA handbook and it said:-

'If a player accidentally crosses one of the boundary lines of the field of play, he is not deemed to have committed an infringement. Going off the field of play may be considered to be part of a playing movement'

This would suggest that you can come back on to the pitch and get yourself onside.  However the rules we re-written in March this year and without putting too fine a point on it, aren't the easiest to understand.

 

Best of luck.  Page 141, I think.  I can't find any text on 'accidently leaving field of play.  (Edit - page 37 -A player who crosses a boundary line as part of a playing movement, does not commit an infringement

 

http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/FootballDevelopment/Refereeing/02/79/92/44/Laws.of.the.Game.2016.2017_Neutral.pdf

 

Page 141

An attacking player may step or stay off the field of play not to be involved in active play. If the player re-enters from the goal line and becomes involved in play before the next stoppage in play or the defending team has played the ball towards thehalfway line  and it is outside their penalty area, the player shall be considered to be positioned on the goal line point for the purposes of offside. A player who deliberately leaves the field of play and re-enters without the referee?s permission and is not penalised for offside and gains an advantage, must be cautioned.

 

Edit - So he can come back on to the park, but isn't allowed to contribute until the ball has made it to the half way line?

 

 

 

[gjcc]

Found an old copy of the FIFA handbook and it said:-

'If a player accidentally crosses one of the boundary lines of the field of play, he is not deemed to have committed an infringement. Going off the field of play may be considered to be part of a playing movement'

This would suggest that you can come back on to the pitch and get yourself onside. However the rules we re-written in March this year and without putting too fine a point on it, aren't the easiest to understand.

Best of luck. Page 141, I think. I can't find any text on 'accidently leaving field of play. (Edit - page 37 -A player who crosses a boundary line as part of a playing movement, does not commit an infringement

http://www.fifa.com/mm/Document/FootballDevelopment/Refereeing/02/79/92/44/Laws.of.the.Game.2016.2017_Neutral.pdf

Page 141

An attacking player may step or stay off the field of play not to be involved in active play. If the player re-enters from the goal line and becomes involved in play before the next stoppage in play or the defending team has played the ball towards thehalfway line and it is outside their penalty area, the player shall be considered to be positioned on the goal line point for the purposes of offside. A player who deliberately leaves the field of play and re-enters without the referee?s permission and is not penalised for offside and gains an advantage, must be cautioned.

Edit - So he can come back on to the park, but isn't allowed to contribute until the ball has made it to the half way line?

 

 

Was Cowies stepping off intentional? If he was carried off by momentum I doubt that applies.

[maroonlegions]

 

So this is the moment the ball gets played into the six yard box, the moment there is contact on the ball there is a Rangers player at  right hand front post playing Don Cowie at the opposite  post on side??? The Rangers player foot is just about on the line. Cowie is further up , on side??

[Diadora Van Basten]

Clearly on by quite a bit so the question is was it an honest mistake by the officials or them seeing the match through blue tinted glasses.

 

If Walker can be wrongly booked by the ref being about a metre away then I suspect it's the latter.

 

I followed the match thread yesterday and we were poor but biased refereeing was a factor.

[kila]

[kila]

Wallace backtracks quickly so perhaps a tough call to make. Cowie definitely onside at the time the ball is kicked though

[jock _turd]

There is nothing to debate here Cowie is onside and the goal should have stood. Is the linesman bent... most probably but that the breaks at the place... even at Tynecastle we have problems getting a decision .. no F'n chance through there.

[Guest Paul Allen]

Embarrassing decision from the linesman.

[scabber]

The bottom line is that Scotland have probably the worst officials in the world they make horrific mistakes every week. This week is no different Thomson in the champions league.gordon should have been sent off at Patrick but the Patrick lad gets booked for diving .our jokers yesterday .and the guy missing two hand balls at inverness .sick of their incompetence