'Offside' goal

[Cruyff Turn]

The pictures show onside.. however for the linesman it is a super difficult call, he doesn't have the pictures, though I thought the SFA directives were that in difficult decisions the advantage was supposed to go with the attacking team.

Tbf If he's inline with Wallace who's foot is practically on the by line and he see's no Hearts shirt past Wallace then it's an easy call . Poor decision.

[Diego10]

The pictures show onside.. however for the linesman it is a super difficult call, he doesn't have the pictures, though I thought the SFA directives were that in difficult decisions the advantage was supposed to go with the attacking team.

That is literally as easy as offside calls get. He's on the goal line looking straight across and there's a Rangers player on the line. The ball hasn't come in from distance, Cowie hasn't run beyond anyone.

 

If you can't get that right there's no hope for you

[H2]

Unfortunately this mindset that it was a tough call is the reason they get brushed under the carpet. If they can't do the job they are paid then why are they still refereeing at this level. If we made this many mistakes during the week at work we would be fired. SFA needs a massive shake up to make our game competitive

Unfortunately this mindset is one that fails to recognise that football officials are human beings who don't have the facility of stills and video replays to make decisions. In life the vast majority of people, which includes SFA officials, will make what they believe at the time to make the right decision. 

[skodef]

How can you have a mate that is a so called bluenose. Dearie me.

 

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[RussAsia]

I thought it was a fair call yesterday but those pictures are clear.. he was onside and it was an easy decision..

 

Pathetic from the linesman..

[Spencer]

we were playing Rangers at Ibrox,50/50 will always go their way because of the incompetence of the referees.

[DxB Hearts]

Thought it might have been on side at the time but he's a good yard on and the rangers player is on the biline so can't get why the linesman made such a mess of it.

 

Any replays of Garners elbow?

[michael_bolton]

On this thread nobody was sure if it was onside or offside until we saw a paused image from the tv. The linesman didn't have that at the time. It's a confusing scene. Players half on the pitch, half off it. Players moving towards goal and away from it. It happened quite quickly.

 

A tough call which he got wrong.

 

That's life. Wasn't at the game myself, but it sounds like we were poor. Can't defend like we did for the second then get all worked up about a marginal offside call.

[Rudolf's Mate]

He's onside (though the Rangers boy moves quick and makes it seem like he's offside):

 

 

I genuinely thought he was offside however the first pic is conclusive and he's on, no doubt about it.

 

We were pretty timid after that however even the biased sevco commentators said we were getting a foothold in the game at that point.

 

If this was the EPL the ***** would be dropped like a hot potato!

 

MB - the linesman was looking directly along the line! We were looking at it from a crap camera angle on TV. Some on here have said they knew people sitting inline with it who've all said it was on.

[kimosavi]

Didn't stop the 'commentator' confirming it definitely was offside.

He was a tube. My ears are still bleeding from listening to that clown

 

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[michael_bolton]

I genuinely thought he was offside however the first pic is conclusive and he's on, no doubt about it.

 

We were pretty timid after that however even the biased sevco commentators said we were getting a foothold in the game at that point.

 

If this was the EPL the ***** would be dropped like a hot potato!

 

MB - the linesman was looking directly along the line! We were looking at it from a crap camera angle on TV. Some on here have said they knew people sitting inline with it who've all said it was on.

 

I'm not disputing that it was a mistake, but I think a pretty understandable one.

 

Watch the incident again at full speed. Then imagine that scene from the touchline, at pitch level, and remember how quickly the players 'swap' positions after the shot is hit.

 

It's not a scandal. It's a tough call that he got wrong. There'll have been dozens like it around Europe yesterday.

[crusty1984]

I'm not disputing that it was a mistake, but I think a pretty understandable one.

 

Watch the incident again at full speed. Then imagine that scene from the touchline, at pitch level, and remember how quickly the players 'swap' positions after the shot is hit.

 

It's not a scandal. It's a tough call that he got wrong. There'll have been dozens like it around Europe yesterday.

What do you think was reason for linesman to not raise his flag for around 5 seconds? What do you think his thought process was/what was he discussing with ref to come to that decision?

 

I genuinely cant work that out.

[michael_bolton]

What do you think was reason for linesman to not raise his flag for around 5 seconds? What do you think his thought process was/what was he discussing with ref to come to that decision?

 

I genuinely cant work that out.

 

People moan when officials take action too quickly, and now people are moaning because the guy took a few seconds to gather his thoughts.

 

I'd imagine he was doing a mental run-through in his head. Would it be better if he didn't think about it?

[crusty1984]

I agree if it takes you a bit longer to come to the right decision but i suspect him and beaton were having a discussion based on just how long it took.

 

Would be good to hear their discussions like in rugby.

[michael_bolton]

I agree if it takes you a bit longer to come to the right decision but i suspect him and beaton were having a discussion based on just how long it took.

 

Would be good to hear their discussions like in rugby.

 

I wouldn't be against hearing what they were saying. We can't be sure, but I'd imagine he was explaining what he saw (or thought he saw) and together they were applying that to the rules.

 

It's a mistake. As I said before, this will have happened to loads of other teams yesterday. That's football.

[Rudolf's Mate]

I'm not disputing that it was a mistake, but I think a pretty understandable one.

 

Watch the incident again at full speed. Then imagine that scene from the touchline, at pitch level, and remember how quickly the players 'swap' positions after the shot is hit.

 

It's not a scandal. It's a tough call that he got wrong. There'll have been dozens like it around Europe yesterday.

Mate I don't buy into them being against us etc however there's no excuse for him getting it wrong. Mistakes are made however despite me believing wholeheartedly at the time it was off, it's absolutely clear he was on. It's not even marginally on either!

[Captain Sausage]

Absolutely no problem with them taking time to make the right decision.

 

They've not done that here. We deserved to lose but that goal would've changed the game completely.

[crusty1984]

We'll never know but i cam only think linesman would have said 'i thought cowie was offside'?? Perhaps he somehow thought patersons shot went straight in.

 

Get the tv companies listening to the mics and we would know. Would have stopped doigie mcdonalds attempts at covering up his mistake at tannadice that time.

[Cathro's Laptop]

How can you have a mate that is a so called bluenose. Dearie me.

 

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Are you an uber Hearts fan? Every one of your mates is a Jambo?

[RudiHMFC]

I'm not disputing that it was a mistake, but I think a pretty understandable one.

 

Watch the incident again at full speed. Then imagine that scene from the touchline, at pitch level, and remember how quickly the players 'swap' positions after the shot is hit.

 

It's not a scandal. It's a tough call that he got wrong. There'll have been dozens like it around Europe yesterday.

I was pretty sure he was onside at the time, if my job was to stand in line with play and look across the line, actually concentrate on calling offside correctly i bet you i would have got it right. Considering Wallace would have been the first player he seen with his foot on the line it's not actually a tough call for him.

[TheBigO]

Look at the 180 mins. The penalty claim, the offside goal, the bookings we got that they never, Walker's 'duve' compared to Holt's which they scored from.

 

No bias though.

[VALDOS]

This is yet another example of why the rule needs changed, in the right of the picture i think its Djoum standing on the line, then off the pitch. He is 100% interfering with play, but that decision has to be made in a split second by the Ref/Linesman. How is he interfering? simply because he is there. His presence will take defenders/goalkeepers eye for even a 100th of a second, so I cannot see in anyway how he cannot be considered as interfering. It literally is down to opinion, therefore these decision can never be consistent to any level. 

[kila]

This is yet another example of why the rule needs changed, in the right of the picture i think its Djoum standing on the line, then off the pitch. He is 100% interfering with play, but that decision has to be made in a split second by the Ref/Linesman. How is he interfering? simply because he is there. His presence will take defenders/goalkeepers eye for even a 100th of a second, so I cannot see in anyway how he cannot be considered as interfering. It literally is down to opinion, therefore these decision can never be consistent to any level.

It was Cowie who was flagged offside (he scored from Paterson'a deflected shot)

[RudiHMFC]

This is yet another example of why the rule needs changed, in the right of the picture i think its Djoum standing on the line, then off the pitch. He is 100% interfering with play, but that decision has to be made in a split second by the Ref/Linesman. How is he interfering? simply because he is there. His presence will take defenders/goalkeepers eye for even a 100th of a second, so I cannot see in anyway how he cannot be considered as interfering. It literally is down to opinion, therefore these decision can never be consistent to any level.

 

What a load of absolute garbage, he's the opposite of interfering with play, he's outside all of the action and actually ends up off the pitch and makes no attempt to get involved in the play.

[VALDOS]

What a load of absolute garbage, he's the opposite of interfering with play, he's outside all of the action and actually ends up off the pitch and makes no attempt to get involved in the play. 

Absolute nonsense, he is in the box where the action is taking place, he is interfering.

[DxB Hearts]

TV replays are going to be used soon, comparing the statics of old firm pens/offside goals/opponent disallowed goals/red cards before and after will be interesting.

[VALDOS]

It was Cowie who was flagged offside (he scored from Paterson'a deflected shot)

Yes that's correct, but you cant honestly think Djoum was not being taken into consideration, remember we are looking at still picture, when this all happens in a split second Djoum will have been watched by the linesman, possibly for that second in which Paterson hit the shot, in which time Cowie had then moved to an off side position. 

Anybody that's tried being a linesman will know exactly how difficult these decisions are, the idea that they are easy is laughable.

[RudiHMFC]

Absolute nonsense, he is in the box where the action is taking place, he is interfering.

No, he's not interfering with play, you obviously don't understand the term interfering with play, he was involved in the initial stramash and ends up off the pitch, makes no attempt to get back involved in play and isn't blocking anyone or in the eye line of defenders or the keeper, a complete non issue to the whole thing.

[alicante jambo]

Was a difficult call tbh.Even after replays it was hard to see.The linesman gets 1 shot at it cant blame him there it was close.

[VALDOS]

No, he's not interfering with play, you obviously don't understand the term interfering with play, he was involved in the initial stramash and ends up off the pitch, makes no attempt to get back involved in play and isn't blocking anyone or in the eye line of defenders or the keeper, a complete non issue to the whole thing.

If you have played the game or tried being a linesman you would understand that he was absolutely interfering, this is my point, the rules are such that there is no right or wrong, its down to opinion, so there can be no consistency.  

[Cathro's Laptop]

If you have played the game or tried being a linesman you would understand that he was absolutely interfering, this is my point, the rules are such that there is no right or wrong, its down to opinion, so there can be no consistency.

In what way was he interfering?

[RudiHMFC]

If you have played the game or tried being a linesman you would understand that he was absolutely interfering, this is my point, the rules are such that there is no right or wrong, its down to opinion, so there can be no consistency.

 

No i have played the game and understand the offside rule, that's how i know he's not interfering with play, it's not really down to opinion, it's down to recognising who is involved in the phase of play and the guy standing outside the play on the goal line outside the posts and then off the pitch isn't even a factor in the decision to call Cowie offside or not.

[VALDOS]

In what way was he interfering?

post #72

 

There is a consistency on here that if you dare go against the grain on any matter it brings out the seethe.

[Diego10]

Being a linesman is indeed very difficult. However, they very rarely follow the key principle of the law which is that they are supposed to give the attacker the benefit of the doubt.

 

I said last night, that offside call was about as easy a one as the linesman will ever have. He literally has Rangers players in front of him before Cowie so there is no possible way he can see him starting behind them.

 

Very poor

[VALDOS]

No i have played the game and understand the offside rule, that's how i know he's not interfering with play, it's not really down to opinion, it's down to recognising who is involved in the phase of play and the guy standing outside the play on the goal line outside the posts and then off the pitch isn't even a factor in the decision to call Cowie offside or not.

Its a huge factor if for the split second that Paterson swings his leg the linesman has to do a quick scan of the players who are present, if his vision is drawn towards Djoum for even a 100th of a second, thats enough time for Cowie to have moved to an offside position, by this time CP has already struck the ball and the Linesman has to make a call.

[RudiHMFC]

post #72

 

There is a consistency on here that if you dare go against the grain on any matter it brings out the seethe.

Don't believe anyone is seething, you're just talking shite and getting pulled up for it, if anyone ends up seething it will be you because you'll be extremely hard pushed to find anyone who can make a case for Djoum interfering with play.

[michael_bolton]

post #72

 

There is a consistency on here that if you dare go against the grain on any matter it brings out the seethe.

 

That's true of pretty much any football forum these days, sadly.

 

People are just frustrated. We lost a big game after a big call went against us. I understand that, and I'm frustrated too. After all the fuss this week, I think we all wanted to pump the sticky buns even more so than normal.

 

It's just one of these things, though. Sometimes the linesman will get a call like that wrong. There was a lot going on in a short space of time in a busy box. Not nearly as easy a decision as it seems when you're looking at a still image.

[Mac80]

This all could have been avoided if paterson lifted his head to see johnsen in acres of space

[Rudolf's Mate]

If you have played the game or tried being a linesman you would understand that he was absolutely interfering, this is my point, the rules are such that there is no right or wrong, its down to opinion, so there can be no consistency.

Mate remember when Celtic scored the goal with the Celtic player stood directly in front of Hamilton. He wasn't interfering with play yet you're saying someone off the pitch to the side is [emoji3]

 

This is why the games ****ed if you're involved in officiating [emoji23]

[VALDOS]

Don't believe anyone is seething, you're just talking shite and getting pulled up for it, if anyone ends up seething it will be you because you'll be extremely hard pushed to find anyone who can make a case for Djoum interfering with play.

I've made the case for it,I dont need anyone else to, why it upsets you so much is beyond my understanding.

[TheBigO]

Was a difficult call tbh.Even after replays it was hard to see.The linesman gets 1 shot at it cant blame him there it was close.

It was a difficult call mate, no doubt.

 

Are you surprised it went in favour of The Rangers?

[VALDOS]

Mate remember when Celtic scored the goal with the Celtic player stood directly in front of Hamilton. He wasn't interfering with play yet you're saying someone off the pitch to the side is [emoji3]

 

This is why the games ****ed if you're involved in officiating [emoji23]

Exactly the point of how this rule is down to opinion rather than being black or white, on that occasion 99% of football fans would agree that player WAS interfering, but the ref/linesmans opinion was that he was not.   

[RudiHMFC]

I've made the case for it,I dont need anyone else to, why it upsets you so much is beyond my understanding.

It's not upsetting me at all mate honestly, I'm just trying to help you in your understanding of the offside rule and what constitutes interfering with play because you obviously don't have a clue, if you do a bit of officiating on the side then i feel sorry for the poor guys who have to put up with you as linesman.

[michael_bolton]

I think there is a fair point in there that the offside rule has been a bone of contention for a number of years now.

 

In the old days it was very simple. If you're offside, you're offside. Then they started playing around with phases of play and levels of interference, directives about moving towards the ball or touching the ball etc. It becomes very cloudy.

 

Many will remember when we played Feyenoord in the UEFA Cup, for example. We had a goal disallowed in the first half for an 'old-skool' offside. I think it was Hartley who was miles from the ball as McKenna scored, but the flag went up. At the other end of the park, Dirk Kujt actually jumped to challenge Robbie Neilson for the ball, but the flag stayed down and their first goal stood. Two examples of old and new offside in one game. Personally, I think both of those decisions were wrong.

 

I think this case is more simple though. I think it's the respective movement of the defender out and the attacker in made the linesman make a poor call. I think the amount of space Cowie had so close to the goal line actually counted against us. It just looks wrong. I suspect that's why it took the linesman a few seconds to process it and put his flag up. At first viewing it does look a very odd goal. A goal nonetheless, but an odd one.

[VALDOS]

Actually just watched the highlights that's been put up and its even more understandable why the call was made, those still picture are very misleading.

[Shaggy2]

Was a difficult call tbh.Even after replays it was hard to see.The linesman gets 1 shot at it cant blame him there it was close.

As I said in earlier posts, the replays never showed a conclusive angle. I said right away that you'd be able to tell from the main camera angle as it would contain all the players involved. Simply by not replaying that angle/frame on Rangers TV, I was immediately convinced we had a case. You see it (or more accurately, don't) all the time in away Euro ties or internationals. The director knows the ref's made a howler for the home team and fails to replay incidents.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Looking at the first picture in the sober light of dawn I have to ask why CP is taking a shot at goal through a couple of defenders with Johnson in the perfect position for a cut back and virtual tap in. Maybe this is one of the choices IC ir referring to. 

[kila]

Looking at the first picture in the sober light of dawn I have to ask why CP is taking a shot at goal through a couple of defenders with Johnson in the perfect position for a cut back and virtual tap in. Maybe this is one of the choices IC ir referring to. 

 

Watch the highlights video - Djoum plays it back to Paterson so he's entitled to take a shot from close range there

[RudiHMFC]

Actually just watched the highlights that's been put up and its even more understandable why the call was made, those still picture are very misleading.

I just watched them aswell and it reinforced my opinion that Cowie never even looked offside, the linesman will see Wallace's outstretched leg on the goal line therefore it is not a difficult decision for him, that actually makes it easy giving Wallace is the closest man to him.

 

As for you bringing Djoum's position into it i will just have to laugh at you for that.

[Hall]

If you have played the game or tried being a linesman you would understand that he was absolutely interfering, this is my point, the rules are such that there is no right or wrong, its down to opinion, so there can be no consistency.

What on earth are you slavering about?