Even More SNP Nonsense

[jambos are go!]

6 hours ago, Boris said:

According to the GERS report, Scotland spends 4.4% on Defence, yet the UK spends 2.0%

 

Why?

 Scotland enjoys a much higher spend on Defence on things like Nuclear Submarines, Massive Aircraft Carriers  and other Naval Vessels than other parts of the UK. Spending that would be transferred out of Scotland to the rest of the UK if we voted for independence' At a cost of many thousand jobs. IMO.

[Boris]

11 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

 Scotland enjoys a much higher spend on Defence on things like Nuclear Submarines, Massive Aircraft Carriers  and other Naval Vessels than other parts of the UK. Spending that would be transferred out of Scotland to the rest of the UK if we voted for independence' At a cost of many thousand jobs. IMO.

But why does it come out of the Scottish govt pot? It’s not devolved? Genuine question as I simply don’t get it if uk defence send is only 2%

[coconut doug]

2 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Im no financial expert but what you claim can’t be correct.

 

“Scotland ran a deficit seven times higher than the UK as a whole last year, despite again cutting its overspend on public services.

The latest Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (Gers) figuresshowed there was a record gap of nearly £2,000 per person between how much was spent on public services and debt repayment, and total tax revenues for 2018-19.

Scotland’s notional deficit stood at £12.6bn or 7% of GDP, including North Sea oil revenues, compared with the UK’s total £23.5bn deficit, which includes Scotland’s figure. The UK deficit is equivalent to 1.1% of its GDP.

Total state spending in Scotland was £1,661 higher per person than the UK average at £75.3bn, while tax receipts were £307 less per head than the UK average, at £62.7bn. Excluding oil revenues, the deficit exceeded £14bn, equal to 22.5% of tax revenues.

Opposition parties said the data blew a hole in the financial case for leaving the UK. But Derek Mackay, the Scottish finance secretary, said it proved independence was needed to allow Scotland to control its own economic policies.

“I recognise that the notional deficit isn’t where we would want it to be,” Mackay said, but argued that Gers showed onshore tax income, excluding oil revenues, was up 5.1%, while employment was at record levels. “Revenues are growing faster than expenditure,” he added.

Mackay confirmed that the Gers data, which covers all UK and Scottish government spending in Scotland and a share of pan-UK spending on areas such as defence, overseas aid and debt reduction, was an accurate assessment of the country’s fiscal position last year.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/21/scotland-2018-deficit-higher-than-uk-as-a-whole-last-year

 

 

 I think the clue is in the term notional. Dictionary definitions of the word tell us that this means imaginary or not real. Clearly this is what we have here.

 Other posters have outlined why the Gers figures cannot be realistically interpreted in the way you suggest. some of these include 1. Gers figures are almost entirely estimates.

2.  Gers figures are broken down into regional areas for England and show that Scotland by comparison is better than at least three areas as well as Wales and NI. 

3. There is a huge disparity between London and the SE and the rest of the UK which in itself shows how poorly the country has been governed and skews the figures so as to make them meaningless.

4. There is a huge military cost attributed to Scotland which would not be applicable in an indy Scotland and seems disproportionate anyway.

5.Attributing tax receipts and earnings to distinct areas of the UK seems to be a very inexact science. Described accurately IMO on here as opaque.

6. Almost a half of Scotland's notional deficit can be attributed to interest rate payments for the UK debt.

 

  It's quite strange also that the level of indebtedness attributed to Scotland by Gers increased hugely since the referendum. This according to Richard Murphy the economist.

 

I wouldn't mind betting that next years figures will reflect a downturn in the UK economy as a result of Brexit which with the  additional costs attributed to No Deal planning laid at Scotland's door even though we didn't want it.

 

What is the cost of a currency devaluing by more than 20% and the ill will generated toward our European neighbours by yet another far right government that we have not voted for? Are these things factored onto Gers ?

 

Actually what worries me the most is the UK's reliance on the city of London and the way our government and institutions are structured to facilitate their needs and not the needs of the people or the wider country. Financial services are footloose and are already moving from the COL, what will happen when tariffs make it more difficult for them to trade and they are not protected by the EU?

[Pans Jambo]

37 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

 Scotland enjoys a much higher spend on Defence on things like Nuclear Submarines, Massive Aircraft Carriers  and other Naval Vessels than other parts of the UK. Spending that would be transferred out of Scotland to the rest of the UK if we voted for independence' At a cost of many thousand jobs. IMO.

Aye?

So how is defence spending down in Scotland and all those RAF/Army bases closed?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-37876561

 

Just a guess but I would imaging that Scotland will have some sort of defence jobs so your claim that "many thousands of jobs" will go is just an opinion.

 

I'm sure theyve already stated the HQ for Scotland defence force will be based at the current Nuclear submarine base.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Pans Jambo

[Don Dan]

4 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

 I think the clue is in the term notional. Dictionary definitions of the word tell us that this means imaginary or not real. Clearly this is what we have here.

 Other posters have outlined why the Gers figures cannot be realistically interpreted in the way you suggest. some of these include 1. Gers figures are almost entirely estimates.

2.  Gers figures are broken down into regional areas for England and show that Scotland by comparison is better than at least three areas as well as Wales and NI. 

3. There is a huge disparity between London and the SE and the rest of the UK which in itself shows how poorly the country has been governed and skews the figures so as to make them meaningless.

4. There is a huge military cost attributed to Scotland which would not be applicable in an indy Scotland and seems disproportionate anyway.

5.Attributing tax receipts and earnings to distinct areas of the UK seems to be a very inexact science. Described accurately IMO on here as opaque.

6. Almost a half of Scotland's notional deficit can be attributed to interest rate payments for the UK debt.

 

  It's quite strange also that the level of indebtedness attributed to Scotland by Gers increased hugely since the referendum. This according to Richard Murphy the economist.

 

I wouldn't mind betting that next years figures will reflect a downturn in the UK economy as a result of Brexit which with the  additional costs attributed to No Deal planning laid at Scotland's door even though we didn't want it.

 

What is the cost of a currency devaluing by more than 20% and the ill will generated toward our European neighbours by yet another far right government that we have not voted for? Are these things factored onto Gers ?

 

Actually what worries me the most is the UK's reliance on the city of London and the way our government and institutions are structured to facilitate their needs and not the needs of the people or the wider country. Financial services are footloose and are already moving from the COL, what will happen when tariffs make it more difficult for them to trade and they are not protected by the EU?

 

So what’s the point of all this. It’s all meaningless ballocks and everyone is getting their knickers in twist over it.

In saying that another respected media outlet has another take on it.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economy-scotland/scottish-budget-deficit-at-seven-year-low-but-far-exceeds-uk-average-idUKKCN1VB0SC

 

Like all financial forecasts and analysis they are all subjective and analysed to suit your narrative.

[Justin Z]

Weird how just across the sea, small, independent Republic of Ireland managed to run a surplus.

 

Blaming the GERS figures entirely, or even more than very modestly, on Scotland, Scottish fiscal management, etc., is actual madness.

[Hasselhoff]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

London 34b southeast 20b east of England 6b. £60b surplus.

The Northwest of England alone has a deficit of £21b Wales £14 b NI £10b , then there's the rest of England. But hey, Scotland is responsible for 50% of the deficit. 👍

 

https://fraserofallander.org/scottish-economy/gers/gers-day-2-after-the-hullaballoo/

 

The line that Scotland is responsible for 50% of the deficit is a line that has been made up by people who don't understand that there are surpluses involved too from other areas of the UK. 

 

"Scotland makes up 13% of the total deficit contributed by the 9 regions of the UK who raise less in taxes than they spend on public services." 

 

is the more accurate statement. 

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Hasselhoff

[Trapper John McIntyre]

3 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

Scotland has no deficit or national debt.

Are you admitting Scotland isn't a country?

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, jambos are go! said:

 Scotland enjoys a much higher spend on Defence on things like Nuclear Submarines, Massive Aircraft Carriers  and other Naval Vessels than other parts of the UK. Spending that would be transferred out of Scotland to the rest of the UK if we voted for independence' At a cost of many thousand jobs. IMO.

 

Items that are of little or  no use to Scotland or the UK. 

 

If your logic is anything to go by scrapping these industries would improve our Gers figures and so must be a good thing.

[coconut doug]

25 minutes ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

https://fraserofallander.org/scottish-economy/gers/gers-day-2-after-the-hullaballoo/

 

The line that Scotland is responsible for 50% of the deficit is a line that has been made up by people who don't understand that there are surpluses involved too from other areas of the UK. 

 

"Scotland makes up 13% of the total deficit contributed by the 9 regions of the UK who raise less in taxes than they spend on public services." 

 

is the more accurate statement. 

 

 

Does this come by way of an apology for your previous statement?  Funny how many nationalists are completely devoid of any basic maths skills as a result of yesterday.

 

Your revised statement is equally inaccurate and just as meaningless. 

[ri Alban]

20 minutes ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

Are you admitting Scotland isn't a country?

As it stands it isn't an independent sovereign country. It is and always will be, s nation. England are the same.

Do u think Scotland and England are Countries?

[ri Alban]

29 minutes ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

https://fraserofallander.org/scottish-economy/gers/gers-day-2-after-the-hullaballoo/

 

The line that Scotland is responsible for 50% of the deficit is a line that has been made up by people who don't understand that there are surpluses involved too from other areas of the UK. 

 

"Scotland makes up 13% of the total deficit contributed by the 9 regions of the UK who raise less in taxes than they spend on public services." 

 

is the more accurate statement. 

 

👍

[Roxy Hearts]

11 hours ago, BRUCEM63 said:

 

Good lick managing an economy with a 12.6 billion black hole 

they are stufffed without North Sea oil to sugar daddy their dreams 

Who's they? I'll take 12 billion black hole over 2 trillion debt but we know Scotland doesn't have any debt, don't we? 

[jack D and coke]

2 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

so all this newspaper talk, reporting Gers etc are a complete waste of time, energy and money?

 

Anyway here’s another decent read about Scotland’s deficit and financial management.

 

https://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2019/08/scotlands-budget-deficit-improves-despite-worsening-income-tax-revenues

What money has Scotland borrowed though? 

GERS was invented to quell nationalism. Ian Lang admitted as much. 

Have you ever seen GERS equivalent figures for England anywhere? 

Why I wonder...

[Hasselhoff]

33 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Does this come by way of an apology for your previous statement?  Funny how many nationalists are completely devoid of any basic maths skills as a result of yesterday.

 

Your revised statement is equally inaccurate and just as meaningless. 

 

Explain please why I would need to apologise?

 

I said originally:

--------

Funny how many nationalists are completely devoid of any basic maths skills as a result of yesterday.

 

"How can Wales and Scotland make up 110% of the UK's deficit" - that's impossible! 

 

 Pretty obvious that when London and the South East run a surplus that cancels out some of the deficit.

 

-----

 

The stupidity I was highlighting was that not all amounts were negative. So it isn't a case of saying 110% of anything. All surpluses and deficits across the UK add up to give the combined UK deficit. 

 

Btw, not my revised statement but one from the subject matter experts on the link provided.

 

 

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

 I think the clue is in the term notional. Dictionary definitions of the word tell us that this means imaginary or not real. Clearly this is what we have here.

 Other posters have outlined why the Gers figures cannot be realistically interpreted in the way you suggest. some of these include 1. Gers figures are almost entirely estimates.

2.  Gers figures are broken down into regional areas for England and show that Scotland by comparison is better than at least three areas as well as Wales and NI. 

3. There is a huge disparity between London and the SE and the rest of the UK which in itself shows how poorly the country has been governed and skews the figures so as to make them meaningless.

4. There is a huge military cost attributed to Scotland which would not be applicable in an indy Scotland and seems disproportionate anyway.

5.Attributing tax receipts and earnings to distinct areas of the UK seems to be a very inexact science. Described accurately IMO on here as opaque.

6. Almost a half of Scotland's notional deficit can be attributed to interest rate payments for the UK debt.

 

  It's quite strange also that the level of indebtedness attributed to Scotland by Gers increased hugely since the referendum. This according to Richard Murphy the economist.

 

I wouldn't mind betting that next years figures will reflect a downturn in the UK economy as a result of Brexit which with the  additional costs attributed to No Deal planning laid at Scotland's door even though we didn't want it.

 

What is the cost of a currency devaluing by more than 20% and the ill will generated toward our European neighbours by yet another far right government that we have not voted for? Are these things factored onto Gers ?

 

Actually what worries me the most is the UK's reliance on the city of London and the way our government and institutions are structured to facilitate their needs and not the needs of the people or the wider country. Financial services are footloose and are already moving from the COL, what will happen when tariffs make it more difficult for them to trade and they are not protected by the EU?

This is total bollocks and its the thing that worries you most😂

[Seymour M Hersh]

One thing this thread has done is identify (via confession) that most here are not economic or government experts. It explains a lot. 

[Don Dan]

26 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

What money has Scotland borrowed though? 

GERS was invented to quell nationalism. Ian Lang admitted as much. 

Have you ever seen GERS equivalent figures for England anywhere? 

Why I wonder...

No never. Would you agree GERS should be binned as it serves no purpose?

[Don Dan]

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

One thing this thread has done is identify (via confession) that most here are not economic or government experts. It explains a lot. 

 

You’re spot on. I’m can say with confidence  very few if any are in any way shape or form a financial expert. I rely on others more qualified than I’ll ever be in giving me explanations on the fiscal state of our country (UK and Scotland) however as always six financial experts will always give you twelve answers. 

[jack D and coke]

Just now, Dannie Boy said:

No never. Would you agree GERS should be binned as it serves no purpose?

I don’t know tbh bud, probably. 

It seems even most fair minded unionists agree it’s not a very accurate look at the books. 

 

[jack D and coke]

 

[Pans Jambo]

28 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

'We want the Scottish government to think again about making it mandatory for all eateries to display KCal of food on menus in Scotland.'

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/think-again-no-kcal-content-on-all-menus?source=twitter-share-button&utm_source=twitter

Understand why theyre doing it. A lot of Scotland is obese. Clear labelling informs people who can make informed choice. 

 

Do I agree with it...couldnt give a shit & nobody else will. Hardly a mass vote swaying topic. 

[Hasselhoff]

24 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

 

 

Chris McEleny posted the above tweet earlier and Angus McNeil agreed with it. It's not true. Again misinformation is the tool of the nationalist. Add Philippa whitford to the people spreading this rubbish 

 

 

Our GDP is about £180.4bn.

 

Our fiscal deficit is 12.63bn, or 7% of GDP.

 

Our defence spend in GERS is £3.305bn, or 1.83% of GDP.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Hasselhoff

[jack D and coke]

6 minutes ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

Chris McEleny posted the above tweet earlier and Angus McNeil agreed with it. It's not true. Again misinformation is the tool of the nationalist. Add Philippa whitford to the people spreading this rubbish 

 

 

Our GDP is about £180.4bn.

 

Our fiscal deficit is 12.63bn, or 7% of GDP.

 

Our defence spend in GERS is £3.305bn, or 1.83% of GDP.

 

 

 

 

Misinformation is not just the tool of the nationalist. That’s incredibly naive if you believe that. 

But fair enough about it being incorrect. 

[jake]

If anything these figures spell out exactly why we should leave the UK.

 

[Hasselhoff]

9 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Misinformation is not just the tool of the nationalist. That’s incredibly naive if you believe that. 

But fair enough about it being incorrect. 

 

I never said it is uniquely a tool of the nationalist but since the SNP prides itself on its social media outreach (which I have to admit is done spectacularly well), misinformation is spread a lot further as a result. They are not in any hurry to correct issues when identified by which time the damage has been done. 

 

 

 

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

I never said it is uniquely a tool of the nationalist but since the SNP prides itself on its social media outreach (which I have to admit is done spectacularly well), misinformation is spread a lot further as a result. They are not in any hurry to correct issues when identified by which time the damage has been done. 

 

 

 

No, your mob use the MSM.

[ri Alban]

27 minutes ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

Chris McEleny posted the above tweet earlier and Angus McNeil agreed with it. It's not true. Again misinformation is the tool of the nationalist. Add Philippa whitford to the people spreading this rubbish 

 

 

Our GDP is about £180.4bn.

 

Our fiscal deficit is 12.63bn, or 7% of GDP.

 

Our defence spend in GERS is £3.305bn, or 1.83% of GDP.

 

 

 

 

6.5 b

[Hasselhoff]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

No, your mob use the MSM.

 

No paper is as sycophantic as the National towards a political party. 

 

My "mob" would happily not use anything as the debate was won in 2014. It will win again if it comes to it but we would all rather not have the debate again so soon. 

 

Getting Indy by deception is not a good plan if you want Scotland to be a success

 

 

[Hasselhoff]

4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

6.5 b

Please explain? 

[ri Alban]

Just now, Hasselhoff said:

 

No paper is as sycophantic as the National towards a political party. 

 

My "mob" would happily not use anything as the debate was won in 2014. It will win again if it comes to it but we would all rather not have the debate again so soon. 

 

Getting Indy by deception is not a good plan if you want Scotland to be a success

 

 

How's Brexit? 

 

Your BBC and every single newspaper is a mouthpiece for the UK government. Doing all it's propaganda and producing misinformation. 

[ri Alban]

4 minutes ago, Hasselhoff said:

Please explain? 

Defence spending allocated to Scotland is £6.5b. 

 

For Scotland's GDP look at Norway. That's what we're worth and Unionists are happy to keep Scotland chained.

Edited August 22, 2019 by ri Alban

[ri Alban]

How much of the £12b is debt repayment? 55%

[Pans Jambo]

18 minutes ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

No paper is as sycophantic as the National towards a political party. 

 

My "mob" would happily not use anything as the debate was won in 2014. It will win again if it comes to it but we would all rather not have the debate again so soon. 

 

Getting Indy by deception is not a good plan if you want Scotland to be a success

 

 

Really mate? Come on!

The National is about it in total!

misinformation from the Unionist side is on the BBC, ITV & SKY etc. news & political chat shows beamed right into our living rooms. BBC radio Scotland has been proven time & again to have Unionist bias. Almost every newspaper (The Sun, Daily Mail, Express etc) are not even ashamed in their promotion of Westminster’s lies & propaganda. 

 

But hey, 1 single newspaper is sycophantic eh?

 

[ri Alban]

8 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Really mate? Come on!

The National is about it in total!

misinformation from the Unionist side is on the BBC, ITV & SKY etc. news & political chat shows beamed right into our living rooms. BBC radio Scotland has been proven time & again to have Unionist bias. Almost every newspaper (The Sun, Daily Mail, Express etc) are not even ashamed in their promotion of Westminster’s lies & propaganda. 

 

But hey, 1 single newspaper is sycophantic eh?

 

He's obviously never read it. 

[Hasselhoff]

44 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

He's obviously never read it. 

 

I read all kinds of sources- Wings, Kevin Hague, Bella Caledonia, National etc. 

 

Blogs are naturally going to be pretty one sided but generally papers will report the news and have opinion pieces. Some papers like the Courier or Scotsman will give columns to both sides of the Scottish constitutional debate. 

 

The National is nothing more than a fanzine for the SNP. A one trick pony that can convert anything into either an indy good or WM bad story. 

 

Their recent tactic of making up a parody Scots in Union Twitter account and saying anti-independence content might have fooled a few of its 'alert readers' but I saw several subscribers cringe over it. 

 

Only the daily express and daily sport could challenge it for a worse paper 

[jack D and coke]

7 minutes ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

I read all kinds of sources- Wings, Kevin Hague, Bella Caledonia, National etc. 

 

Blogs are naturally going to be pretty one sided but generally papers will report the news and have opinion pieces. Some papers like the Courier or Scotsman will give columns to both sides of the Scottish constitutional debate. 

 

The National is nothing more than a fanzine for the SNP. A one trick pony that can convert anything into either an indy good or WM bad story. 

 

Their recent tactic of making up a parody Scots in Union Twitter account and saying anti-independence content might have fooled a few of its 'alert readers' but I saw several subscribers cringe over it. 

 

Only the daily express and daily sport could challenge it for a worse paper 

The National doesn’t pretend to be anything else than a paper that supports independence. It states it on the front page lol. 

Its like people who moan about the SNP wanting independence too, it’s there raison d’etre, the reason they exist. It would be like asking the tories to give a flying **** about working class people. 

The other papers or media outlets in general don’t do that for me they only pretend to be impartial when they’re nothing of the sort. I can’t actually think of an impartial media outlet and I don’t just mean that for Scottish Indy. I mean for Brexit or party politics in general it’s heavily swayed towards the conservatives everywhere except maybe the Guardian and Mirror. 

[Justin Z]

Anybody have any idea what sort of surpluses or deficits were reported in Ireland when under British rule? India? Any of the other colonies the Empire extracted trillions of pounds from?

[jambos are go!]

20 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

Anybody have any idea what sort of surpluses or deficits were reported in Ireland when under British rule? India? Any of the other colonies the Empire extracted trillions of pounds from?

Its up you to put up the figures or shut up.

[Justin Z]

6 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

Its up you to put up the figures or shut up.

Ooh, bit of an uncomfortable question for you, mate?  

 

 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

Anybody have any idea what sort of surpluses or deficits were reported in Ireland when under British rule? India? Any of the other colonies the Empire extracted trillions of pounds from?

Well Malta was told it had zero chance without Britain pumping money up its arse in the 50’s. 

Is it the most prosperous small country in the EU? Not sure. 

Who was the Indian economist who reckoned Britain owed them trillions too?

Read an article last year can’t remember where. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by jack D and coke

[Justin Z]

Interesting @jack D and coke, thanks. $11 billion GDP from a labour force of under 200,000 in Malta. Not bad.

 

On the back of that I decided to look up India. According to the noted radical left wing, Scottish Independence-supporting Daily Express,  a London-based economist last year determined the empire extracted £36 trillion in today's money from India, as a conservative estimate . . . and also reported that “even when India was running a trade surplus, it showed up as a deficit in the national accounts because the real income from India’s exports was appropriated in its entirety by Britain”.

 

 

“Meanwhile, the 'deficit' meant that India had no option but to borrow from Britain to finance its imports. So the entire Indian population was forced into completely unnecessary debt to their colonial overlords, further cementing British control,” Hickel explains.

 

Very interehjrling.

 

Link to full article

 

Edit: @jambos are go!, now I see why my question made you so uncomfortable.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Justin Z

[Pans Jambo]

19 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

Interesting @jack D and coke, thanks. $11 billion GDP from a labour force of under 200,000 in Malta. Not bad.

 

On the back of that I decided to look up India. According to the noted radical left wing, Scottish Independence-supporting Daily Express,  a London-based economist last year determined the empire extracted £36 trillion in today's money from India, as a conservative estimate . . . and also reported that “even when India was running a trade surplus, it showed up as a deficit in the national accounts because the real income from India’s exports was appropriated in its entirety by Britain”.

 

 

“Meanwhile, the 'deficit' meant that India had no option but to borrow from Britain to finance its imports. So the entire Indian population was forced into completely unnecessary debt to their colonial overlords, further cementing British control,” Hickel explains.

 

Very interehjrling.

 

Link to full article

 

Edit: @jambos are go!, now I see why my question made you so uncomfortable.

Now THAT IS interesting.

 

Deficit? Now where have I heard that recently.

[The Continental Op]

21 hours ago, jambos are go! said:

 Scotland enjoys a much higher spend on Defence on things like Nuclear Submarines, Massive Aircraft Carriers  and other Naval Vessels than other parts of the UK. Spending that would be transferred out of Scotland to the rest of the UK if we voted for independence' At a cost of many thousand jobs. IMO.

Nuclear submarines are built in Barrow in Cumbria. Approx 500 jobs at Faslane depend on the subs and missiles (MoD official answer) - the rest are ordinary naval requirements which would continue, so we could give everyone of them a £150,000 house and £20,000 per year pension and still save on the costs we have to pay for Trident.

[The Continental Op]

2 hours ago, Justin Z said:

Anybody have any idea what sort of surpluses or deficits were reported in Ireland when under British rule? India? Any of the other colonies the Empire extracted trillions of pounds from?

I don't know about actual deficits, but in the period 1900-1950, between 25% and 60% of the taxes raised (in Scotland at least) went towards the 'Imperial Contribution' - Wings has the details.

[jack D and coke]

Then they came up with GERS

🤥

[ri Alban]

Scotland was never a scrounging Bassa until Independence became a reality.   Apparently we're skint and useless

[Roxy Hearts]

3 hours ago, Justin Z said:

Ooh, bit of an uncomfortable question for you, mate?  

 

 

🤣 Yes it was 👍

[jambos are go!]

4 hours ago, Justin Z said:

Ooh, bit of an uncomfortable question for you, mate?  

 

 

No . I'm miffed about folk on both sides of the debate on here who make claims without references and expect others to find them for them. I've been aware that India and the rest of the British Empire was shafted by the  UK since I was  a schoolboy in the 60s. IIRC we are still paying reparations to India and Pakistan at least. I'll check that out and report back.

[Justin Z]

Just now, jambos are go! said:

No . I'm miffed about folk on both sides of the debate on here who make claims without references and expect others to find them for them. I've been aware that India and the rest of the British Empire was shafted by the  UK since I was  a schoolboy in the 60s. IIRC we are still paying reparations to India and Pakistan at least. I'll check that out and report back.

 

Fair enough. As a foreigner I was asking a genuine question--you'll note, I made no claim in so doing--and wondered if anybody had easy access to any info about the thought I'd had. I do not think GB has ever paid reparations to any former colony, as I have seen an Oxford debate involving Dr Shashi Tharoor, Member of Indian Parliament, arguing that Britain ought to pay reparations, even £1 a year, if for no other reason than the symbolic gesture it would represent, i.e. "we wronged you".

Thanks for having a look as well.