Even More SNP Nonsense

[coconut doug]

6 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Er... um... is this how it feels when someone reads one of my posts?  

 

I hope not. I tried very hard not to be too patronising.

 

Are you going to attempt to justify the claims you have made?

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, coconut doug said:

 

I hope not. I tried very hard not to be too patronising.

 

Are you going to attempt to justify the claims you have made?

 

Not to something that dense (in the sense of how it's written), no.

 

Gimme 3 months or something, and I might respond. 😛 

[coconut doug]

Just now, shaun.lawson said:

 

Not to something that dense (in the sense of how it's written), no.

 

Gimme 3 months or something, and I might respond. 😛 

 

Oh go on, especially your theory about how ignorance and bigotry are linked to isolation.

 

You asked me about Scottish values, i answered and you. You also made some derogatory comment about Darien, surely you could explain that.

[jack D and coke]

This thread about to get loooonnnnnng posts  

[coconut doug]

52 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

This thread about to get loooonnnnnng posts  

 

Long is good. Thick or wide, not so much.

[Don Dan]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

Long is good. Thick or wide, not so much.

 

 

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

This thread about to get loooonnnnnng posts  

The penny just dropped, took all afternoon though 😢

[manaliveits105]

Who ?

[shaun.lawson]

7 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

without reading it, I can guess entirely what it says.

 

Scotland is brilliant, the EU is brilliant, England is bad. 

 

Doesn't say that. Is a very good, reasonable piece. 

 

Speaking as someone who thought Scotland should vote NO in 2014 because the economic arguments were back of a fag packet nonsense, I can see no reason why Scotland shouldn't leave now. The contempt of Westminster towards Scotland and the SNP couldn't be more apparent; Scotland was told "vote NO to stay in the EU", did so, then voted specifically to stay in the EU, yet is being dragged out; the UK political system and unwritten constitution has never been more openly unfit for purpose.

 

Increasingly, those who oppose Scottish independence aren't just against the emotional argument. They're against the rational argument too. In my view, the only rational argument remaining against indy is: no country should become independent until a massive majority of its people support it. And that remains a tall, tall mountain to overcome. 

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Thanks.

Is that your opinion, or is that a summary of the article?

Why don't you read it. Or do you just live in an echo chamber.

[Roxy Hearts]

New poll suggests independence supporters switching. 

[gjcc]

29 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

New poll suggests independence supporters switching. 

Misleading. Switching to what? A slightly less hardline support of independence. 
 

The study was on a scale of 0-10 with 0 being complete support of the Union and 10 being complete support of independence. 
 

I’ve not seen the complete statistics but even a move from 10 to 9 has seemingly  been interpreted as ‘switching’. They don’t necessarily suggest that these people are now Unionists as the title insinuates. 

[gjcc]

2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

This?

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-scottish-independence-voters-switching-to-support-the-union-1-5030614/amp

As above. A nonsense title that doesn’t describe what the stats actually show. 

[Roxy Hearts]

25 minutes ago, gjcc said:

Misleading. Switching to what? A slightly less hardline support of independence. 
 

The study was on a scale of 0-10 with 0 being complete support of the Union and 10 being complete support of independence. 
 

I’ve not seen the complete statistics but even a move from 10 to 9 has seemingly  been interpreted as ‘switching’. They don’t necessarily suggest that these people are now Unionists as the title insinuates. 

I want independence myself and anecdotally I've found the opposite with friends and family as more now support our self governance. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

9 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

 

 

I sometimes think that the NHS UK wide think that every pound raised in tax should be spent on them. I doubt no matter how much money a government injects into the NHS they will never be happy. My better half works in the NHS, not in hospitals,  and the amount of overpaid and massively underachieving managers and staff she sees is embarrassing. But it's almost heresy to suggest ways to reduce wastage and overspend. 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I sometimes think that the NHS UK wide think that every pound raised in tax should be spent on them. I doubt no matter how much money a government injects into the NHS they will never be happy. My better half works in the NHS, not in hospitals,  and the amount of overpaid and massively underachieving managers and staff she sees is embarrassing. But it's almost heresy to suggest ways to reduce wastage and overspend. 

 

 

Absolutely, been saying the same thing for years, it's obscene tbh, as is often the case with their the job titles as well, add in the word nurse or nursing and they get included in the same bracket as proper nurses when they get added to the overall average wage statistics, thereby bumping up what people think real nurses are actually paid, they also often get included in the nursing staffing levels, but have no medical experience whatsoever, but are still classed as a 'nurse'.

 

Understaffing is a very serious and major issue, and it happens more often than joe public realise.

Many a time my wife will do a 12 hour shift, with no breaks, nothing to eat, very little time to drink even water, needless to say patients lives are being put at risk by understaffing and all the pressures that go with it.

[Pans Jambo]

13 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

 

My entire life of 49 years the NHS has been in shit state but its still here. 
this shite is propaganda. Same shit different day. My entire family has been helped by the NHS at one stage or another from birth to today & its still here. I broke my shoulder In an accident last year & guess who’s ambulance medics, doctors, surgeons, nurses & physio’s were employed by? The NHS. Brilliant service but it seems the media and the opposition just want to shit on it to suit their own agenda. 
No matter what the colour in office the NHS always seems to be in a critical state. 
 

A load of shite. A society of entitlement that you MUST be seen by a certain time or its a missed target. Utter garbage. 
 

I’m more concerned about the talent leakage with non-UK nationals working in the NHS either leaving or deciding not to come.

 

was a Yank consultant I seen last year BTW. 

[gjcc]

18 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

My entire life of 49 years the NHS has been in shit state but its still here. 
this shite is propaganda. Same shit different day. My entire family has been helped by the NHS at one stage or another from birth to today & its still here. I broke my shoulder In an accident last year & guess who’s ambulance medics, doctors, surgeons, nurses & physio’s were employed by? The NHS. Brilliant service but it seems the media and the opposition just want to shit on it to suit their own agenda. 
No matter what the colour in office the NHS always seems to be in a critical state. 
 

A load of shite. A society of entitlement that you MUST be seen by a certain time or its a missed target. Utter garbage. 
 

I’m more concerned about the talent leakage with non-UK nationals working in the NHS either leaving or deciding not to come.

 

was a Yank consultant I seen last year BTW. 

Half the trouble with the NHS is incorrect use of services. Folk going to the GP because they’ve got a cold. Folk going to A&E because they’ve stubbed their toe. Folk getting paracetamol on prescription. Folk phoning ambulances several times a day because they’re lonely. 
 

Funny that a failing NHS is used as a slight on the SNP when NHS England fairs just as badly, if not worse, in the UK-wide targets. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

My entire life of 49 years the NHS has been in shit state but its still here. 
this shite is propaganda. Same shit different day. My entire family has been helped by the NHS at one stage or another from birth to today & its still here. I broke my shoulder In an accident last year & guess who’s ambulance medics, doctors, surgeons, nurses & physio’s were employed by? The NHS. Brilliant service but it seems the media and the opposition just want to shit on it to suit their own agenda. 
No matter what the colour in office the NHS always seems to be in a critical state. 
 

A load of shite. A society of entitlement that you MUST be seen by a certain time or its a missed target. Utter garbage. 
 

I’m more concerned about the talent leakage with non-UK nationals working in the NHS either leaving or deciding not to come.

 

was a Yank consultant I seen last year BTW. 

 

Are you saying that this article is just shite propaganda, that there are no staff shortages in Scottish hospitals, that wards at times are not so understaffed that patients lives are being put at risk, that staff get all the breaks they are enttled to and all that sort of thing.  Is that what your saying?

[shaun.lawson]

The problem with the NHS is:

 

1. It's an entire system based on rationing. This means that some illnesses are prioritised, others are ignored because it's not "value for money".  Then there's the awful postcode lottery too.

 

2. Whenever the Tories are in power, they always de-fund it. Always, always, always. It's like an attempt to blackmail the public into it being privatised. Whereas under Labour, it always does well. It was transformed under the Blair government, but is back in a right old state a decade later.

 

But it was a system created for 1948, not 2019 - and it's the French and Dutch systems we should be looking at. The best healthcare in the world is available to... those Americans who can afford it, ie. not many people. If there's a hard Brexit, many of its backers want that catastrophic system for the UK... and the more they deny immigrants the right to come and work in the NHS, the more likely it is that they'll get their evil wish.

Edited October 27, 2019 by shaun.lawson

[Pans Jambo]

20 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Are you saying that this article is just shite propaganda, that there are no staff shortages in Scottish hospitals, that wards at times are not so understaffed that patients lives are being put at risk, that staff get all the breaks they are enttled to and all that sort of thing.  Is that what your saying?

Yeah just pick the bits you dont like to start a rammy. 
The NHS will ALWAYS be in a constant flux of shit according to the media, government opposition, you or anyone else who doesnt like the current colour of government but it’ll just keep going as it has since the end if WW2. 
its feckin boring!!!

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

Yeah just pick the bits you dont like to start a rammy. 
The NHS will ALWAYS be in a constant flux of shit according to the media, government opposition, you or anyone else who doesnt like the current colour of government but it’ll just keep going as it has since the end if WW2. 
its feckin boring!!!

 

I’m not having a go at you, far less trying to start a ‘rammy’, I’m not even having a pop at the SNP, because I agree with you that the NHS has always been the stick that the opposition, any opposition has used to beat whoever the current government of the day happens to be, so wind your neck in, calm down and stop assuming that everybody is trying to have a pop at the SNP and actually listen to what someone else has to say.

 

You see that great service you & your family & millions of other people, including myself has received from the NHS for many many years now, well that service is, day by day becoming harder and harder to deliver, joe public generally doesn’t have a clue what goes on behind the scenes for the staff to be able to deliver that great service, what you don’t see or even hear about is staff who are, for one example, working 12 hour shifts without any breaks, because they are increasingly understaffed and whilst it used to be a rare event, it is sadly becoming more and more common, but joe public doesn’t see nor often even hear about it, and this is testament to the professionalism and dedication of all the staff, that the public doesn’t have a clue what is going on most of the time, and believe that everything is all rosy in the garden, so to speak, whilst in reality the situation is often like a clown, big smile for the public, but behind closed doors....................

 

I hear you saying that it’s always being claimed that the NHS is always in crisis, and that’s true, for the most part, but there is a major difference today from previous years and that’s the numbers, increasingly there is becoming fewer and fewer trained staff whom incidentally are also getting older and are not being replaced in sufficient numbers of new younger staff to take their place, so there are fewer and fewer staff available to provide that great service we have all become used to from the NHS.

 

IMO the NHS is, in it’s current form unsustainable, it is dying, radical and drastic decisions about the future of the NHS are going to have to be made sooner rather than later, and that will apply to whomever is in charge, be that the SNP, Labour, Tories even the Monster Raving Loony Party it doesn’t matter because the NHS can’t continue in it’s current form.

 

You might think it's all boring and shite propaganda, that is up to you what you believe, all I would say is to take your political hat off and open your eyes.

[Pans Jambo]

3 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I’m not having a go at you, far less trying to start a ‘rammy’, I’m not even having a pop at the SNP, because I agree with you that the NHS has always been the stick that the opposition, any opposition has used to beat whoever the current government of the day happens to be, so wind your neck in, calm down and stop assuming that everybody is trying to have a pop at the SNP and actually listen to what someone else has to say.

 

You see that great service you & your family & millions of other people, including myself has received from the NHS for many many years now, well that service is, day by day becoming harder and harder to deliver, joe public generally doesn’t have a clue what goes on behind the scenes for the staff to be able to deliver that great service, what you don’t see or even hear about is staff who are, for one example, working 12 hour shifts without any breaks, because they are increasingly understaffed and whilst it used to be a rare event, it is sadly becoming more and more common, but joe public doesn’t see nor often even hear about it, and this is testament to the professionalism and dedication of all the staff, that the public doesn’t have a clue what is going on most of the time, and believe that everything is all rosy in the garden, so to speak, whilst in reality the situation is often like a clown, big smile for the public, but behind closed doors....................

 

I hear you saying that it’s always being claimed that the NHS is always in crisis, and that’s true, for the most part, but there is a major difference today from previous years and that’s the numbers, increasingly there is becoming fewer and fewer trained staff whom incidentally are also getting older and are not being replaced in sufficient numbers of new younger staff to take their place, so there are fewer and fewer staff available to provide that great service we have all become used to from the NHS.

 

IMO the NHS is, in it’s current form unsustainable, it is dying, radical and drastic decisions about the future of the NHS are going to have to be made sooner rather than later, and that will apply to whomever is in charge, be that the SNP, Labour, Tories even the Monster Raving Loony Party it doesn’t matter because the NHS can’t continue in it’s current form.

 

You might think it's all boring and shite propaganda, that is up to you what you believe, all I would say is to take your political hat off and open your eyes.

You could very well be right but I have the feeling we could still be discussing the very same issues in 25 years time. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

33 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

You could very well be right but I have the feeling we could still be discussing the very same issues in 25 years time. 

 

Without radical change I'd hate to see what state the NHS could be in, in 25 years time.

 

I do genuinely feel that there needs to be some serious and what will be uncomfortable debates and discussions regarding the future of the NHS and how best it can still provide excellent emergency & life saving treatment going into the future, maybe that's the way forward that it becomes a free emergency & life saving service and everything else you have to pay for at least in part, I don't know, but that's a debate for another time on another thread.

 

[ri Alban]

8 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Without radical change I'd hate to see what state the NHS could be in, in 25 years time.

 

I do genuinely feel that there needs to be some serious and what will be uncomfortable debates and discussions regarding the future of the NHS and how best it can still provide excellent emergency & life saving treatment going into the future, maybe that's the way forward that it becomes a free emergency & life saving service and everything else you have to pay for at least in part, I don't know, but that's a debate for another time on another thread.

 

You won't have to wait 25 years, after Brexit it'll be gone, unless we go independent and I for one would very gladly pay higher tax to fund an independent Scotland's NHS. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

The dispatches programme on C4 tonight, mentioned by another poster, sorry forgot his name, was an eye opener about what could happen after, or if, we exit the EU and adopt a deal with the good old US of A. People are going to have to get used to paying for treatment or else suffer illness in quiet cause the future does not look bright.

[Rupert Custard]

Stompy Murrell must have looked out from the stage on George Square and realised she is ****ed.

 

A few thousand unemployable lunatics in panto costume turn out to hear her big ‘here we go’ speech. The same clowns that turn out at all the marches- there are NO new converts. 

 

And the Salmond rape trial is still to come!

[ri Alban]

33 minutes ago, Rupert Custard said:

Stompy Murrell must have looked out from the stage on George Square and realised she is ****ed.

 

A few thousand unemployable lunatics in panto costume turn out to hear her big ‘here we go’ speech. The same clowns that turn out at all the marches- there are NO new converts. 

 

And the Salmond rape trial is still to come!

 Was that u and an other leading the protests, waving the England flag/UF whilst playing long kicks. 

 

Oh and Jimmy Saville was a member of the Conservative and a Unionist party. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by ri Alban

[Hasselhoff]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

 Was that u and an other leading the protests, waving the England flag/UF whilst playing long kicks. 

 

Oh and Jimmy Saville was a member of the Conservative and a Unionist party. 

Even the cult leader didn’t spot it. 

 

Regarding the small amount of union flag waving idiots that come out to each national march, they are the few who have nothing better to do with their day. The vast majority of no voters just look and laugh from a distance. There are just as many daft idiots on either side at these events. Normal pro-uk people are just getting on with life. 
 

SNP can game the voting system as much as they want, falling out with the Greens if they don’t roll over and let them get the entire pro-Indy vote, still not mentioning Indy specifically as a bullet point in their leaflets etc. They may eventually get their referendum but the one vote they can’t cheat on is the actual vote for Indy. Nationalists will lose again as economically there is even less reason to vote yes this time round. They will have to lie in order to convince people otherwise and once those lies get fact checked, you would have to be an extreme nationalist to dismiss any fact checks as project fear. 
 

Bizarre seeing all the SNP MPs trying to crowdfund for campaigning in their area. What does the SNP do with all the money from membership etc? Fancy backdrop screen at the conference must use up all the budget and they have to go back to begging from normal people who don’t necessarily earn a lot. i bet if we ever did get Indy (we won’t), there would end up crowdfunding for the NHS and other public services once the inevitable cuts hit. 

[Trapper John McIntyre]

[Brighton Jambo]

On 26/10/2019 at 20:46, gjcc said:

Half the trouble with the NHS is incorrect use of services. Folk going to the GP because they’ve got a cold. Folk going to A&E because they’ve stubbed their toe. Folk getting paracetamol on prescription. Folk phoning ambulances several times a day because they’re lonely. 
 

Funny that a failing NHS is used as a slight on the SNP when NHS England fairs just as badly, if not worse, in the UK-wide targets. 

True but the Tory’s get absolutely slaughtered for the state of the NHS in England.  It can’t be one rule for one and not the other.  The SNP have massively failed on the NHS and sturgeons goals when she was health minister have all been missed.  

 

You are right its certainly no worse than England but both aren’t anywhere near good enough.  

[Brighton Jambo]

On 28/10/2019 at 02:19, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Without radical change I'd hate to see what state the NHS could be in, in 25 years time.

 

I do genuinely feel that there needs to be some serious and what will be uncomfortable debates and discussions regarding the future of the NHS and how best it can still provide excellent emergency & life saving treatment going into the future, maybe that's the way forward that it becomes a free emergency & life saving service and everything else you have to pay for at least in part, I don't know, but that's a debate for another time on another thread.

 

I totally agree with this and people need to stop believing that everything should always be free.  And before people start shrieking I have some specific examples:

 

- if you fail to turn up for a doctors appointment you are fined £20.  No ifs or buts

- if you turn up for a doctors appointment and it clear you should have gone elsewhere, I.e. you turn up with toothache there is a £20 charge.  

- stop free paracetamol and ibuprofen.  I read it costs the NHS nearly a tenner a pack when all costs are added  and can be bought in any supermarket for less than a pound.

- if you turn up to A&E between the hours of say 9pm and 6am on a Friday or Saturday and if your injury or illness is as a result of drink or drug taking there is a £50 surcharge 

- if you insist on a home water birth of your baby etc then there is a charge for the privilege .   Again I read about the cost of those home births versus hospital births.  

 

i suspect people will find plenty of reasons to criticise these ideas. I don’t really want to get into the detail as it’s more my way of showing we could start doing some things and those things might seem a bit radical but I really don’t believe that just throwing more and more money at the existing model is a viable long term solution.  

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I totally agree with this and people need to stop believing that everything should always be free.  And before people start shrieking I have some specific examples:

 

- if you fail to turn up for a doctors appointment you are fined £20.  No ifs or buts

- if you turn up for a doctors appointment and it clear you should have gone elsewhere, I.e. you turn up with toothache there is a £20 charge.  

- stop free paracetamol and ibuprofen.  I read it costs the NHS nearly a tenner a pack when all costs are added  and can be bought in any supermarket for less than a pound.

- if you turn up to A&E between the hours of say 9pm and 6am on a Friday or Saturday and if your injury or illness is as a result of drink or drug taking there is a £50 surcharge 

- if you insist on a home water birth of your baby etc then there is a charge for the privilege .   Again I read about the cost of those home births versus hospital births.  

 

i suspect people will find plenty of reasons to criticise these ideas. I don’t really want to get into the detail as it’s more my way of showing we could start doing some things and those things might seem a bit radical but I really don’t believe that just throwing more and more money at the existing model is a viable long term solution.  

But it's not free, is it? 

[stevie]

Bin free prescriptions for a start.Only those who’d struggle to afford them or those on long term meds should get them free.

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I totally agree with this and people need to stop believing that everything should always be free.  And before people start shrieking I have some specific examples:

 

- if you fail to turn up for a doctors appointment you are fined £20.  No ifs or buts

- if you turn up for a doctors appointment and it clear you should have gone elsewhere, I.e. you turn up with toothache there is a £20 charge.  

- stop free paracetamol and ibuprofen.  I read it costs the NHS nearly a tenner a pack when all costs are added  and can be bought in any supermarket for less than a pound.

- if you turn up to A&E between the hours of say 9pm and 6am on a Friday or Saturday and if your injury or illness is as a result of drink or drug taking there is a £50 surcharge 

- if you insist on a home water birth of your baby etc then there is a charge for the privilege .   Again I read about the cost of those home births versus hospital births.  

 

i suspect people will find plenty of reasons to criticise these ideas. I don’t really want to get into the detail as it’s more my way of showing we could start doing some things and those things might seem a bit radical but I really don’t believe that just throwing more and more money at the existing model is a viable long term solution.  

 

You can get packets of ibuprofen and similar pills for about 30p in a supermarket - absolutely no need for these to be free.

[TheOak88]

On 27/10/2019 at 18:19, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Without radical change I'd hate to see what state the NHS could be in, in 25 years time.

 

I do genuinely feel that there needs to be some serious and what will be uncomfortable debates and discussions regarding the future of the NHS and how best it can still provide excellent emergency & life saving treatment going into the future, maybe that's the way forward that it becomes a free emergency & life saving service and everything else you have to pay for at least in part, I don't know, but that's a debate for another time on another thread.

 

 

This is spot on, mate. 

 

No politician wants to address the elephant in the room that the NHS needs to reform, for fear they will be rounded on and become unelectable. 

 

Instead we will hobble on with the decaying system, throwing good money after bad. 

[Pans Jambo]

8 hours ago, stevie said:

Bin free prescriptions for a start.Only those who’d struggle to afford them or those on long term meds should get them free.

No because (despite all the right wing tory supporting dafties on here)Scotland is a more "socialist" leaning country and so it should be.

NHS - Free at the point of need and paid for by your income taxes, nationalised and long may it remain so.

Pity the Labour and "socialist" party doesn't live up to its name a bit more eh?

As far as the "tenner" a pack for ibuprofen, if that's true then the person/persons who procures them for the NHS for that cost should be fired!

[TheOak88]

9 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I totally agree with this and people need to stop believing that everything should always be free.  And before people start shrieking I have some specific examples:

 

- if you fail to turn up for a doctors appointment you are fined £20.  No ifs or buts

- if you turn up for a doctors appointment and it clear you should have gone elsewhere, I.e. you turn up with toothache there is a £20 charge.  

- stop free paracetamol and ibuprofen.  I read it costs the NHS nearly a tenner a pack when all costs are added  and can be bought in any supermarket for less than a pound.

- if you turn up to A&E between the hours of say 9pm and 6am on a Friday or Saturday and if your injury or illness is as a result of drink or drug taking there is a £50 surcharge 

- if you insist on a home water birth of your baby etc then there is a charge for the privilege .   Again I read about the cost of those home births versus hospital births.  

 

i suspect people will find plenty of reasons to criticise these ideas. I don’t really want to get into the detail as it’s more my way of showing we could start doing some things and those things might seem a bit radical but I really don’t believe that just throwing more and more money at the existing model is a viable long term solution.  

 

All pretty sensible stuff TBF. 

 

Didn't even realise you could get free paracetamol and ibuprofen on the NHS. What a joke! The stuff costs pennies out the supermarket.  

[stevie]

Money should be spent elsewhere!

Anyone who can afford to pay for medicine should be charged,its farcical giving free painkillers to the rich.

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, TheOak88 said:

 

This is spot on, mate. 

 

No politician wants to address the elephant in the room that the NHS needs to reform, for fear they will be rounded on and become unelectable. 

 

Instead we will hobble on with the decaying system, throwing good money after bad. 

The elephant in the room is that the population is eating itself to death, and the burden that places on the NHS is ridiculous.

No amount of reform is going to counter the spiralling demand for services.

its a supply vs demand issue

we need to reduce demand

 

Tax ALL takeaway food and restaurants an extra 20 %VAT.

Have "red flag" foodstuffs that attract VAT also

Make fruit and veg  free , and ALL sports facilities free to use with the money generated.

Ban school kids from leaving the grounds at lunchtime.

 

[doctor jambo]

46 minutes ago, stevie said:

Money should be spent elsewhere!

Anyone who can afford to pay for medicine should be charged,its farcical giving free painkillers to the rich.

Its not really the rich that are the issue though.

They place fewer demands on the service, use it less and are healthier, despite being the ones that fund it.

[TheOak88]

9 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The elephant in the room is that the population is eating itself to death, and the burden that places on the NHS is ridiculous.

No amount of reform is going to counter the spiralling demand for services.

its a supply vs demand issue

we need to reduce demand

 

Tax ALL takeaway food and restaurants an extra 20 %VAT.

Have "red flag" foodstuffs that attract VAT also

Make fruit and veg  free , and ALL sports facilities free to use with the money generated.

Ban school kids from leaving the grounds at lunchtime.

 

 

Why can’t it be both?

 

Some reform for the NHS, and try to get people to change their lifestyle choices.

 

I am not a big fan of using taxes in that way to stop people doing certain things. Unless they are completely outright bad for you like smoking.

 

It doesn’t feel like it is addressing the route causes of overeating.  

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Why can’t it be both?

 

Some reform for the NHS, and try to get people to change their lifestyle choices.

 

I am not a big fan of using taxes in that way to stop people doing certain things. Unless they are completely outright bad for you like smoking.

 

It doesn’t feel like it is addressing the route causes of overeating.  

Make unhealthy food more expensive , make healthy food and exercise cheap.

snp tax alcohol heavily to discourage and it works

time to do the same with food

[felix]

13 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Make unhealthy food more expensive , make healthy food and exercise cheap.

snp tax alcohol heavily to discourage and it works

time to do the same with food

Like a sugar tax ?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

8 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Make unhealthy food more expensive , make healthy food and exercise cheap.

snp tax alcohol heavily to discourage and it works

time to do the same with food

 

You make that sound so simple doc, but we all know that the better the quality of food generally the more expensive it's cost to produce it, hence why healthier better quality food is more expensive to buy in the shops than it's mass produced high salt high sugar high fat equivalent.

 

What you propose is to make the dearer better quality food cheaper than it's crap alternative, nice idea but I can't see it happening, because all that would happen is the unhealthy food would increase hugely in price, but the healthy food remains the same price, which is already out of the reach for many many family's budget already, hence why they have to buy the cheaper unhealthy food.

 

It would take Government action and then some.

[doctor jambo]

8 minutes ago, felix said:

Like a sugar tax ?

Exactly, and it works.

take- out tax?

dead easy

 

[ArcticJambo]

18 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Exactly, and it works.

take- out tax?

dead easy

 

Our economy would collapse!

[Iconic Idiot]

Any savings to the health service from people being healthier would be eaten up by the fact they'll live longer and the pension fund would get blootered.

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Iconic Idiot said:

Any savings to the health service from people being healthier would be eaten up by the fact they'll live longer and the pension fund would get blootered.

 

 

Yeh, the perfect citizen as far as the government is concerned, is the one who works & pays tax straight after leaving school and then drops dead a week before they retire, sadly knew someone who did that, keeled over 3 days before he due to retire.

 

But you are correct about the state pensions, it would bankrupt the UK, not just that, but we are already hearing from NHS bodies that people are living longer, but more and more of them are also living longer with complex & or multiple conditions which are putting even more pressure on the NHS.

 

 

 

[Iconic Idiot]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Yeh, the perfect citizen as far as the government is concerned, is the one who works & pays tax straight after leaving school and then drops dead a week before they retire, sadly knew someone who did that, keeled over 3 days before he due to retire.

 

But you are correct about the state pensions, it would bankrupt the UK, not just that, but we are already hearing from NHS bodies that people are living longer, but more and more of them are also living longer with complex & or multiple conditions which are putting even more pressure on the NHS.

 

 

 

My dad started work at 15 and died age 60. Paid in and got nowt back save 3 months of treatment for cancer.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Iconic Idiot said:

My dad started work at 15 and died age 60. Paid in and got nowt back save 3 months of treatment for cancer.

 

Sorry to hear that, unfortunately it isn't a rare occurance either.

 

As I said knew one guy who died 3 days before he was due to retire, but I've also lost count of the number who have retired and lasted less than a year or two, still if they keep raising the retirement age it won't matter to most, as they'll just work till they drop, maybe that's the plan all along.