Aberdeen's new stadium...

[Sooks]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

We can’t stop them really

 

1 hour ago, Mysterion said:

 

It could be possible is they rent Oriam for 2 or 3 nights a week. Allows them to operate a 2nd Academy structure for player evaluation but I don't think its cost effective to have a full time base in the capital.

 

Celtic are in the process of having Barrowfield torn apart and completely redeveloped for their youth Academy. This would make Lennoxtown their mens team, women's team and u21 (reserve) home whilst all other football operations are carried out in the community around Barrowfield. This makes a lot of sense and is good from a marketing perspective. 

No I realise that we can not stop them I just do not like them spreading like a disease in to a traditionally very maroon part of our city I grew up out that way and feel a little bit disgusted at the mere thought of it

[kingantti1874]

16 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

It's an investment.

 

The training facility is a stadium, community facilities and other income generation. 

 

Same as that other 'vanity project' on McLeod Street.

Don’t think training facilities generate much income

[Bazzas right boot]

4 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

 

A bit harsh on I've Seen The Light imo, he wasn't the gloating type, but he has been quiet.

 

 

He could be in JKB jail. 

 

[Mysterion]

26 minutes ago, Sooks said:

 

No I realise that we can not stop them I just do not like them spreading like a disease in to a traditionally very maroon part of our city I grew up out that way and feel a little bit disgusted at the mere thought of it

 

Mate - The Rangers have been renting out Corn Exchange or another place near Sighthill (possibly Powerleague) during school holidays and operating 5 day football coaching programs for 5-15yr olds for 2yrs now. 

 

We're already late in preventing an incursion. 

 

[Dunks]

What happened to this?

 

[Sooks]

Just now, Mysterion said:

 

Mate - The Rangers have been renting out Corn Exchange or another place near Sighthill (possibly Powerleague) during school holidays and operating 5 day football coaching programs for 5-15yr olds for 2yrs now. 

 

We're already late in preventing an incursion. 

 

True I got some local paper through my door advertising that shite a while a go ………… from what I took from the post I read on here though it sounded as though Celtic wanted to set up an east coast base

[Mysterion]

3 minutes ago, Dunks said:

What happened to this?

 

That's the new regeneration waterfront plan. 

Still the one they want with co-op from the council as far as i know. It would be a much better option keeping the stadium closer to the city than going to Cormack Park. 

 

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

It's an investment.

 

The training facility is a stadium, community facilities and other income generation. 

 

Same as that other 'vanity project' on McLeod Street.

 

It might be an investment, that doesn't mean it's a worthwhile investment.

 

For a club of our size I think we're in the perfect position as tenants at Riccarton.

[tian447]

Aberdeen would be better off with this:

 

 

In fact, they could groundshare with Cove Rangers, and still fit all their fans in even of they both played at the same time (which, they might well be doing next season anyway if the Sheep manage to Hibs their season). 

 

Magic! 

[RustyRightPeg]

On 20/04/2022 at 21:42, RustyRightPeg said:

In my previous job a year or so back we were told the out of town stadium was scrapped as the Council want the football to stay in the centre of the city so were willing to give a grant to either renovate Pittodrie or move down to the waterfront instead.
 

The plan in Aberdeen is to spend a tonne doing up the waterfront and improve it. Be interesting to see what happens. 

 

2 hours ago, Dunks said:

What happened to this?

 

Ties in with what I was saying a week or so back. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by RustyRightPeg

[kingantti1874]

nothing will happen. Because the country is skint and Aberdeen is on fast track to being the the UK’s very own Detroit. A city in the early throws of death. 
 

once the oil goes they are absolutely ****ed

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

I’m not really enthused with us paying £14m or so for training facilities unless we absolutely have to i.e. our rental is refused to be renewed.

[kingantti1874]

Just now, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

I’m not really enthused with us paying £14m or so for training facilities unless we absolutely have to i.e. our rental is refused to be renewed.

Agreed.. why would they not continue the rent though? that wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense

[Dunks]

25 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

Ties in with what I was saying a week or so back. 

 

Had a look at the committee papers. The stadium business case was deferred from November to February, but no mention in the later meeting. Next one will be post-election.

[RustyRightPeg]

2 minutes ago, Dunks said:

 

Had a look at the committee papers. The stadium business case was deferred from November to February, but no mention in the later meeting. Next one will be post-election.

I can’t see it happening. Would come at a monumental cost to the city. Should be spent elsewhere.

[jamboinglasgow]

15 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Agreed.. why would they not continue the rent though? that wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense

 

I suspect there are a number of reasons that are making the club re-consider using Oriam. Knowing about the people in charge at the club and how careful they want to be in not putting the club in any financial jeopardy, I am sure they would not be considering an expensive project like this for a few minor problems renting the Oriam.

 

[Sooks]

In the Evening News article it says that Savage is due to meet Ross Campbell the head of Oriam soon and that they have already discussed what they can do to help each other’s interests ……….. thats at the same time as us looking around Aberdeens facility and talking about potentially building something similar……….

 

putting two and two together and probably making five I wonder if the fields between Riccy Mains Road and Oriam or the ones on the other side of the woods are going on the market and we are considering building our own place there but sharing some facilities with Oriam too

[davemclaren]

24 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

I’m not really enthused with us paying £14m or so for training facilities unless we absolutely have to i.e. our rental is refused to be renewed.

Depends on the what the realities are on use of the Oriam going forward and how the costs/benefits of buying/leasing stack up. Without more info it’s hard to decide what the best approach is imo. 

[Sooks]

12 minutes ago, Sooks said:

In the Evening News article it says that Savage is due to meet Ross Campbell the head of Oriam soon and that they have already discussed what they can do to help each other’s interests ……….. thats at the same time as us looking around Aberdeens facility and talking about potentially building something similar……….

 

putting two and two together and probably making five I wonder if the fields between Riccy Mains Road and Oriam or the ones on the other side of the woods are going on the market and we are considering building our own place there but sharing some facilities with Oriam too

It seems as though we are maybe thinking about building something akin to Aberdeens next to Oriam and building on our relationship together with them …….. any one else reach that leap of a conclusion

[RustyRightPeg]

15 minutes ago, Sooks said:

In the Evening News article it says that Savage is due to meet Ross Campbell the head of Oriam soon and that they have already discussed what they can do to help each other’s interests ……….. thats at the same time as us looking around Aberdeens facility and talking about potentially building something similar……….

 

putting two and two together and probably making five I wonder if the fields between Riccy Mains Road and Oriam or the ones on the other side of the woods are going on the market and we are considering building our own place there but sharing some facilities with Oriam too

Both of these would be difficult.
 

Particularly the one across the other side of the road. You can’t see it but there’s a load of pylons running over the field, not to mention the uneven ground and also the railway line. 

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Both of these would be difficult.
 

Particularly the one across the other side of the road. You can’t see it but there’s a load of pylons running over the field, not to mention the uneven ground and also the railway line. 

Yes I know I used to live near there I wonder about the site to the south though I think Bavelaw Burn / Water of Leith is through that wee wooded area in between

[jamboinglasgow]

6 minutes ago, Sooks said:

It seems as though we are maybe thinking about building something akin to Aberdeens next to Oriam and building on our relationship together with them …….. any one else reach that leap of a conclusion

 

What article is that from?

 

Also I remember seeing someone say months ago that West Lothian is being considered. There is a lot of fields between Livingston and Edinburgh which if we bought one up could have plenty land to build a training ground on and not be too far from Tynecastle or Riccarton.

[Sooks]

I am probably making massive leaps of imagination but I just found the two stories a bit interesting and looked for something that might connect them ……… I do think it might be something we would explore as a longer term option though

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

What article is that from?

 

Also I remember seeing someone say months ago that West Lothian is being considered. There is a lot of fields between Livingston and Edinburgh which if we bought one up could have plenty land to build a training ground on and not be too far from Tynecastle or Riccarton.

Riccarton is still Edinburgh but almost as far west as you can go before hitting West Lothian with just villages like Balerno Ratho and Wilkieston ect in between before you hit Kirknewton and the likes in West Lothian ………. I expect the land gets cheaper the further west you go 

[Sooks]

4 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

What article is that from?

 

Also I remember seeing someone say months ago that West Lothian is being considered. There is a lot of fields between Livingston and Edinburgh which if we bought one up could have plenty land to build a training ground on and not be too far from Tynecastle or Riccarton.

Edinburgh Evening news https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-explore-new-training-ground-vision-ahead-of-imminent-oriam-talks-3669843

[Famous 1874]

Fair few fields in Balerno that has enough land to facilitate a training complex. 

[Bazzas right boot]

22 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Riccarton is still Edinburgh but almost as far west as you can go before hitting West Lothian with just villages like Balerno Ratho and Wilkieston ect in between before you hit Kirknewton and the likes in West Lothian ………. I expect the land gets cheaper the further west you go 

 

Who ever funk it - the pet shop boys were giving out real estate advice all the way back then!

 

[Sooks]

Just now, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Who ever funk it - the pet shop boys were giving out real estate advice all the way back then!

 

: - D

[Wee Mikey]

14 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Who ever funk it - the pet shop boys were giving out real estate advice all the way back then!

 

 

Are you too young to remember The Village People?

 

 

[Mikey1874]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

It might be an investment, that doesn't mean it's a worthwhile investment.

 

For a club of our size I think we're in the perfect position as tenants at Riccarton.

 

Mortgage or rent.

 

Generally renting you pay more.

[Unknown user]

19 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Mortgage or rent.

 

Generally renting you pay more.

 

We have a very rich landlord who has an interest in what we do. They have access to staff and money we can only dream of, they can maintain and modernise while we, along with others, benefit.

At hibs they've got a barn with ageing gym equipment that they have to replace themselves while we have access to state of the art facilities.

 

 

[Sooks]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

We have a very rich landlord who has an interest in what we do. They have access to staff and money we can only dream of, they can maintain and modernise while we, along with others, benefit.

At hibs they've got a barn with ageing gym equipment that they have to replace themselves while we have access to state of the art facilities.

 

 

I wonder if we are may be wanting to go in to a proper partnership with Oriam as was initially planned before we became just tenants ………. May be a joint venture where we put a wad in each and we both benefit

[Bazzas right boot]

50 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

Are you too young to remember The Village People?

 

 

 

Yes. 

😜

[RobNox]

3 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

It might be an investment, that doesn't mean it's a worthwhile investment.

 

For a club of our size I think we're in the perfect position as tenants at Riccarton.

True. But I have faith in the people we have at the club to evaluate the options and make an informed decision on whether or not it is a worthwhile investment.

 

Our current lease at Oriam expires in 2029, so it's not an impending issue, but it's good that  we are starting to investigate options now, rather than wait until late in the day.  

[Mysterion]

28 minutes ago, Sooks said:

I wonder if we are may be wanting to go in to a proper partnership with Oriam as was initially planned before we became just tenants ………. May be a joint venture where we put a wad in each and we both benefit

 

Arguably we did that almost 20yrs ago when we put £2.35mill into Riccarton. 

Total cost was £6.5mill at the time and we got a lease agreement. I'd guess we've more than covered Heriot Watt's costs.

 

I would like to see Hearts maintain Riccarton in some form - when looking at the maps of the University I'd be interested to know if the Uni would allow Hearts to build a new facility up by Car Park H. There is a significant space up there. Could there be scope for an Oriam 2 building with a full size indoor pitch and modern academy facilities (eg. cryogenic recovery, water therapy etc). 

 

There is the space on site to create a modern academy that goes beyond what all other top flight clubs have.

[Unknown user]

19 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

Arguably we did that almost 20yrs ago when we put £2.35mill into Riccarton. 

Total cost was £6.5mill at the time and we got a lease agreement. I'd guess we've more than covered Heriot Watt's costs.

 

I would like to see Hearts maintain Riccarton in some form - when looking at the maps of the University I'd be interested to know if the Uni would allow Hearts to build a new facility up by Car Park H. There is a significant space up there. Could there be scope for an Oriam 2 building with a full size indoor pitch and modern academy facilities (eg. cryogenic recovery, water therapy etc). 

 

There is the space on site to create a modern academy that goes beyond what all other top flight clubs have.

I doubt very much we've covered their costs, the facility we rent now is very different to the one built 20 years ago

[Section Q]

Anyone know how much the rent at Oriam is.....?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

My memory is that there was some frustration outside the club that we'd gotten an extremely long lease at the Oriam for a song and that it was at the very least unfair to other clubs and possibly an undue use of public funds, or something. I'm obviously not fussed about Hearts somehow being given an overly fair deal but at the same time, I wonder if there's some push-back on extending that lease, and if we'll be made to pay significantly more, and hence these discussions.

 

My guess is that we got the lease because the Oriam is underused without a club training there, but perhaps they're under some pressure to let more clubs use the facility, as sounds like is in some of the rumbling. As such, the notion of a fieldhouse with indoor training grounds and some private Hearts offices and such directly adjacent to the Oriam might make a bit more sense. That way we can use their pitches, but if we're booted out of the indoor portion or something, we have our own, and the it's still significantly less cost to us than an entirely new training center.

[Poseidon]

3 hours ago, Section Q said:

Anyone know how much the rent at Oriam is.....?

I seem to recall it being about £500k per year

[RobNox]

30 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

My memory is that there was some frustration outside the club that we'd gotten an extremely long lease at the Oriam for a song and that it was at the very least unfair to other clubs and possibly an undue use of public funds, or something. I'm obviously not fussed about Hearts somehow being given an overly fair deal but at the same time, I wonder if there's some push-back on extending that lease, and if we'll be made to pay significantly more, and hence these discussions.

 

My guess is that we got the lease because the Oriam is underused without a club training there, but perhaps they're under some pressure to let more clubs use the facility, as sounds like is in some of the rumbling. As such, the notion of a fieldhouse with indoor training grounds and some private Hearts offices and such directly adjacent to the Oriam might make a bit more sense. That way we can use their pitches, but if we're booted out of the indoor portion or something, we have our own, and the it's still significantly less cost to us than an entirely new training center.

I suspect you're probably right with that assumption, otherwise I can't see why it would make sense not to extend the lease and instead decide to invest in our own facility.  What pleases me is that we are already looking into alternatives while the current lease still has 7 years to go.  It's always better to be proactive rather than reactive.

[Mysterion]

7 hours ago, Smithee said:

I doubt very much we've covered their costs, the facility we rent now is very different to the one built 20 years ago

Why doubt it?

The new Oriam facility is a new building linked to the Academy. We don’t use it daily as far as I know. We use the original academy building.
 

From what I read the Hearts agreement covers the original academy building and pitches. Use of the full indoor pitch was mentioned as an extra cost which was touted at the time as a fantastic option for youth games during bad weather.

 

[oxfordman]

9 hours ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

Are you too young to remember The Village People?

 

 

Indeed.

 

Jim Morrison had an opinion about it too:

 

"The West is the best, the West is the best,

Get here, and we'll do the rest...."

 

For all us real oldies!

Edited April 27, 2022 by oxfordman

[John Findlay]

The problem with the Oriam is that we have to share with all and sundry. Scottish Rugby, all Scottish International football teams, both male and female. It is correct that we find good land and build our own, that way we have exclusive use of it for all Hearts team of all ages of both male and female. For me the sooner we do this the better.

[Mikey1874]

6 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

My memory is that there was some frustration outside the club that we'd gotten an extremely long lease at the Oriam for a song and that it was at the very least unfair to other clubs and possibly an undue use of public funds, or something. I'm obviously not fussed about Hearts somehow being given an overly fair deal but at the same time, I wonder if there's some push-back on extending that lease, and if we'll be made to pay significantly more, and hence these discussions.

 

My guess is that we got the lease because the Oriam is underused without a club training there, but perhaps they're under some pressure to let more clubs use the facility, as sounds like is in some of the rumbling. As such, the notion of a fieldhouse with indoor training grounds and some private Hearts offices and such directly adjacent to the Oriam might make a bit more sense. That way we can use their pitches, but if we're booted out of the indoor portion or something, we have our own, and the it's still significantly less cost to us than an entirely new training center.

 

Whether its true or not the thinking by those involved with Oriam was that having Hearts in the package was an important strength in the bid to win as Scotland's National Sports Performance Centre. Hearts were a key partner so that would explain any preferential deal. 

 

Oriam beat Stirling in the bid. Maybe now that isn't so important. But having negotiations maybe suggests we can get a better deal. Talking about having our own training site is definitely something that's been discussed for several years but could also be to strengthen negotiations. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Mikey1874

[OTT]

I wonder the benefits of having our own training facilities in re balance sheet? 
 

Like, let’s say we need to borrow funds to pull down the wheatfield or Roseburn or Gorgie stands in the future. I think a 30 something year shelf life was quoted so this isn’t a ridiculous proposition.
 

If we have assets like a training ground and stadium to borrow against, it might mean raising the funds is easier? 
 

(whether it’s good practise or sensible to do so is another story 😅)

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Why doubt it?

The new Oriam facility is a new building linked to the Academy. We don’t use it daily as far as I know. We use the original academy building.
 

From what I read the Hearts agreement covers the original academy building and pitches. Use of the full indoor pitch was mentioned as an extra cost which was touted at the time as a fantastic option for youth games during bad weather.

 

 

That's not my understanding at all but I couldn't say 100% to be honest. I'm sure someone will be able to say for sure if we only use the original facilities

[Section Q]

On 27/04/2022 at 11:58, Poseidon said:

I seem to recall it being about £500k per year

That's what  I heard a few years back.

That money can cover the interest on a  facility/loan of £10m at 5%. Just an example, but we'd be better off with our own premises 8nstead of paying out dead money. Might just happen....!

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

That's not my understanding at all but I couldn't say 100% to be honest. I'm sure someone will be able to say for sure if we only use the original facilities

What’s in the new Oriam building that the squad would use (except for the indoor arena) that the original academy building doesn’t have ? Not having a go, just trying to work out what was added that the team need and if it wasn’t in the first building wondering if there’s changes/improvements that can be achieved.
 

The fitness suite is a possibility. There’s a superb looking one on the ground floor looking out to the Astro pitches but looks like it has SRU branding last time I was there. Would be surprised if there wasn’t a facility in the Academy building though unless it was removed/changed when Oriam was added. 
 

I guess lots of guess work on all our parts.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Mysterion said:

What’s in the new Oriam building that the squad would use (except for the indoor arena) that the original academy building doesn’t have ? Not having a go, just trying to work out what was added that the team need and if it wasn’t in the first building wondering if there’s changes/improvements that can be achieved.
 

The fitness suite is a possibility. There’s a superb looking one on the ground floor looking out to the Astro pitches but looks like it has SRU branding last time I was there. Would be surprised if there wasn’t a facility in the Academy building though unless it was removed/changed when Oriam was added. 
 

I guess lots of guess work on all our parts.

 

I wonder if it could be that the original parts we rented for exclusive use are the same, but we also have non exclusive access to aspects of the bigger development.

[Shanks said no]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-61236250

 

Thermals at the ready, this is almost on the North Sea