Fernando Ricksen's condition is deteriorating

[Morgan]

1 hour ago, Whatever said:

Just awful seeing him as he is. He’s likely to choke to death in the coming weeks.

 

I can’t believe that in this day and age we won’t even talk about euthanasia being an option with illnesses like this.

 

It’s absolutely horrific and as is often said, we treat sick animals better.

 

 

 

Wouldn’t change one word of your post.

[The Future's Maroon]

31 minutes ago, Morgan said:

 

Wouldn’t change one word of your post.

Can’t disagree either, especially after witnessing it first hand myself.

 

Up there with Cancer IMO, horrible horrible disease.

[i8hibsh]

Everytime I see a bump in this thread I fear the worst.

[i8hibsh]

2 hours ago, Whatever said:

Just awful seeing him as he is. He’s likely to choke to death in the coming weeks.

 

I can’t believe that in this day and age we won’t even talk about euthanasia being an option with illnesses like this.

 

It’s absolutely horrific and as is often said, we treat sick animals better.

 

 

 

 

I see so many arguments for it and I am more drawn to this side but at the end of the day it is still someone killing another human and that is what gets me.

[AlimOzturk]

8 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I see so many arguments for it and I am more drawn to this side but at the end of the day it is still someone killing another human and that is what gets me.

 

In cases like this it would be a Mercy but of course it depends on Fernando Ricksen. I haven't heard of him or his family discussing euthanasia as a possibility.

 

I have an Uncle has had cerebral palsy since birth, has been wheel chair bound and can't do anything for himself. But because of the family support he has had he has lived a full, productive and enjoyable life. Many would have said euthanasia would have been the best for him.

 

Also Stephen Hawkings and the things he did throughout life dispite his disability. 

 

It should be a personal choice but of course it becomes a mind field legally. What if a sick person is talked into it by families not wanting to burdened with it or due to financial pressures?

 

Hard subject. 

  

[i8hibsh]

6 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

In cases like this it would be a Mercy but of course it depends on Fernando Ricksen. I haven't heard of him or his family discussing euthanasia as a possibility.

 

I have an Uncle has had cerebral palsy since birth, has been wheel chair bound and can't do anything for himself. But because of the family support he has had he has lived a full, productive and enjoyable life. Many would have said euthanasia would have been the best for him.

 

Also Stephen Hawkings and the things he did throughout life dispite his disability. 

 

It should be a personal choice but of course it becomes a mind field legally. What if a sick person is talked into it by families not wanting to burdened with it or due to financial pressures?

 

Hard subject. 

  

 

 

Yeah without a doubt, people should have every right to live but also every right to die. Would not wish to be the person to pull the proverbial trigger though. Yup, very tough. Should 100% be the choice of the individual but no-one should be made to end the life just because it is their job i have heard of such cases.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

I'm surprised in this day and age where we are encouraged to be independent that this ultimate independent choice is not available to all of us.

 

After all it is our life and no one else's. 

 

Mind you the clamour when Levein signs his 10 year deal......

 

Apologies 

[Martin_T]

I don't think Fernando's past as an athlete would have had any impact on the progression his MND. He has certainly exceeded the average life expectancy of 2 to 2.5 years given he was diagnosed in 2013, but then 20% of cases live for between 5 and 10 years post diagnosis. Stephen Hawking (55 years) and Jason Becker (diagnosed in 1989) are exceptionally rare examples. This is a disease that wastes every muscle in the body, including eventually the tongue and the eyelids.

 

On the case of right to die, I've read up on this quite a lot given my own situation, when diagnosed with Parkinson's back in 2014, my first reaction was to look up the dignitas clinic in Switzerland. I believe that in the Netherlands there is actually the capacity to ask for and receive euthanasia in certain circumstances.

 

It's not as simple as giving people the right to choose however. The UK charity Not Dead Yet, set up to oppose assisted suicide, has a legitimate argument that if it's allowed, people could potentially be pressured into doing so by external parties, be that close family, or indeed friends or their doctor.  Essentially they argue that it sets a dangerous precendent, more details re their argument are in the link below:

 

http://notdeadyetuk.org/

[OTT]

31 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

I don't think Fernando's past as an athlete would have had any impact on the progression his MND. He has certainly exceeded the average life expectancy of 2 to 2.5 years given he was diagnosed in 2013, but then 20% of cases live for between 5 and 10 years post diagnosis. Stephen Hawking (55 years) and Jason Becker (diagnosed in 1989) are exceptionally rare examples. This is a disease that wastes every muscle in the body, including eventually the tongue and the eyelids.

 

On the case of right to die, I've read up on this quite a lot given my own situation, when diagnosed with Parkinson's back in 2014, my first reaction was to look up the dignitas clinic in Switzerland. I believe that in the Netherlands there is actually the capacity to ask for and receive euthanasia in certain circumstances.

 

It's not as simple as giving people the right to choose however. The UK charity Not Dead Yet, set up to oppose assisted suicide, has a legitimate argument that if it's allowed, people could potentially be pressured into doing so by external parties, be that close family, or indeed friends or their doctor.  Essentially they argue that it sets a dangerous precendent, more details re their argument are in the link below:

 

http://notdeadyetuk.org/

 

Thats really interesting. Its a horribly difficult decision, I think though, because the decision is so final there should be a lot of checks and balances to try and eliminate the possibility of external pressure. My preference is that euthanasia is performed by a specially trained professional, rather than the current situation where people are taking their own lives and potentially dragging loved ones into a legal minefield if they're found to have assisted in any way. The odds are someone who doesn't know what they're doing could put themselves through a lot of unnecessary pain in pursuit of ending their own suffering. 

 

I can't help but find the counter argument to euthanasia to be as bloody minded as the pro-lifers regarding abortion. I think its a deeply personal decision, and nobody should have the right to make that decision for you, both to keep someone alive who doesn't want to continue suffering, and likewise, to be pressured into it as a result of external factors. 

[micole]

Really emotive subject assisted suicide. Whilst I can see both sides of the argument and OTT and Martin T, put the points way better than I could. A close friend of mind died a slow and painful death ( cancer) , his final days were spent at home with palliative care , he was on heavy doses of morphine for the pain and this was increased slowly until he passed away. Now I'm not for one minute suggesting this helped in his passing however I always have that lingering thought that maybe the nurses ended it all to ease the suffering and pain, I know his immediate family were relieved when the end came. I don't know the right or wrong answer to it all,  me personally I would not want my family to go through the trauma and would prefer a swift clean ( if there is such a thing) end , just my opinion.

[XB52]

19 minutes ago, micole said:

Really emotive subject assisted suicide. Whilst I can see both sides of the argument and OTT and Martin T, put the points way better than I could. A close friend of mind died a slow and painful death ( cancer) , his final days were spent at home with palliative care , he was on heavy doses of morphine for the pain and this was increased slowly until he passed away. Now I'm not for one minute suggesting this helped in his passing however I always have that lingering thought that maybe the nurses ended it all to ease the suffering and pain, I know his immediate family were relieved when the end came. I don't know the right or wrong answer to it all,  me personally I would not want my family to go through the trauma and would prefer a swift clean ( if there is such a thing) end , just my opinion.

Morphine's been used to assist dying for years, rightly imo, although it is never admitted. 

[cb1874]

18 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Morphine's been used to assist dying for years, rightly imo, although it is never admitted. 

Correct...watched my father suffer an horrific battle against emphysema for 8 years and at the end, he was on an auto morphine drip to keep him sedated and comfortable. All it took was for us to tell the doc he was looking restless and the doctor came to the house, increased the dose and he was gone within the hour. I will be forever grateful for the compassion shown by the GP that night.

[Gilamas]

My best mate died of MND. It’s just a horrid condition.

 

He lived for c3 years after diagnosis. He ended up having one of the most uplifting and, frankly, encouraging deaths. He reconciled with his ex-wife (she was just wonderful) and he said he learned patience and tolerance and gained so much. He came to faith and said he spent his last months loving the world and loving people. And believe you me, he left such a legacy of memories and inspiration. AND he was Hearts through and through. What a guy. We who are left behind have the privilege of missing him daily.

[Whatever]

1 hour ago, micole said:

Really emotive subject assisted suicide. Whilst I can see both sides of the argument and OTT and Martin T, put the points way better than I could. A close friend of mind died a slow and painful death ( cancer) , his final days were spent at home with palliative care , he was on heavy doses of morphine for the pain and this was increased slowly until he passed away. Now I'm not for one minute suggesting this helped in his passing however I always have that lingering thought that maybe the nurses ended it all to ease the suffering and pain, I know his immediate family were relieved when the end came. I don't know the right or wrong answer to it all,  me personally I would not want my family to go through the trauma and would prefer a swift clean ( if there is such a thing) end , just my opinion.

 

As already said, morphine overdose is what often ends up killing a terminally ill cancer patient.

 

When the doctors tell the closest to inform the family, they are doing so knowing that the dose of morphine that will be administered will kill them.

 

Went through it last year with a close member of the family. Horrific experience.

[JStables]

2 hours ago, Whatever said:

 

As already said, morphine overdose is what often ends up killing a terminally ill cancer patient.

 

When the doctors tell the closest to inform the family, they are doing so knowing that the dose of morphine that will be administered will kill them.

 

Went through it last year with a close member of the family. Horrific experience.

 

That's totally horrific, hope it's a bit easier now. 

My gran was the same a few years ago except she went the herbal route and ended up living way beyond her 6 months she was given (5 years!). Not a chance a doctor was telling a stubborn woman when she was going.