Brexit?

[Sarah O]

Imagine Joseywales and AussieH in a room, arguing the rights and wrongs of the british union.  

 

Would be fine viewing.

[Ibrahim Tall]

I have to wait 3 weeks for a doctor's appointment with a doctor also I know people that have been moved out of their doctor's surgeries because of overcrowding. I do think the services that we need are being stretched and it cannot continue. But maybe you don't agree with me on this but british people must come first besides with millions of people on the dole and young people can't get work now is the time to say enough is enough.

I'm sure you'll get an appointment much quicker once the local Polish/Lithuanian/French/Italian doctor or nurse has ****ed off back home after his family have been told they're no longer welcome...

[Mister T]

Exactly, the UK is a thing of the past. We should take control of our border and stop England abusing our country/people/assets.

Who's going to be the scapegoat when independence goes t*ts up and there's no tories or English to blame?

[deesidejambo]

Who's going to be the scapegoat when independence goes t*ts up and there's no tories or English to blame?

Thatcher of course.

[Dutchmul]

Thatcher of course.

 

Here's a marvellous piece of irony for you, if the snp mps had voted for jim callaghan in the 79 vote of confidence, he would have won the vote and thatcher wouldn't have won the 79 election that he was forced to call because he lost that vote - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_vote_of_no_confidence_in_the_government_of_James_Callaghan

 

You won't here eck the fish or nicola krankie speaking about that, but then again, thatcher served their purpose very well so perhaps there was method in their madness.

[Chester™]

Here's a marvellous piece of irony for you, if the snp mps had voted for jim callaghan in the 79 vote of confidence, he would have won the vote and thatcher wouldn't have won the 79 election that he was forced to call because he lost that vote - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_vote_of_no_confidence_in_the_government_of_James_Callaghan

 

You won't here eck the fish or nicola krankie speaking about that, but then again, thatcher served their purpose very well so perhaps there was method in their madness.

And if the Labour MP's who didnt vote for their own government had, it wouldn't have went through either. Solely blaming the SNP, as many do, is simplistic.

[jake]

Nice trade deal with Australia.

Exports are more competitive tourism has seen a boost.

Hardly the sign of an inward looking nation.

Japan has its own interests as does the US i dont see them devolving sovereignty.

Why do they think we should?

[Tazio]

Imagine Joseywales and AussieH in a room, arguing the rights and wrongs of the british union.

 

Would be fine viewing.

Robot Wars comes to mind. Without the drivers.

[Boris]

Nice trade deal with Australia.

Exports are more competitive tourism has seen a boost.

Hardly the sign of an inward looking nation.

Japan has its own interests as does the US i dont see them devolving sovereignty.

Why do they think we should?

That's fine, but Japan and the USA would rather do a deal that sees entry to the single European market. The U.K. On its own is rather peripheral.

[Dutchmul]

And if the Labour MP's who didnt vote for their own government had, it wouldn't have went through either. Solely blaming the SNP, as many do, is simplistic.

 

PMSL, I wasn't solely blaming the snp(if you read and understood what i posted you'd know that) I was merely pointing out the irony that the snp have been banging on about thatcher for 37 years yet they helped bring her to power. Anyway, the snp don't do irony, just propaganda so they will continue to not mention their part in her elevation to prime minister.

[niblick1874]

That will be the same president who told us not to vote for independence as well?

 

Obama is piissed off that the UK will not be joining TTIP and allowing the USA to open up the NHS to their companies.

I am not sure how many have see this but I think it is relevant to what is being discussed.

 

Make of it what you will 

[Chester™]

PMSL, I wasn't solely blaming the snp(if you read and understood what i posted you'd know that) I was merely pointing out the irony that the snp have been banging on about thatcher for 37 years yet they helped bring her to power. Anyway, the snp don't do irony, just propaganda so they will continue to not mention their part in her elevation to prime minister.

 

I didnt say you were solely blaming the SNP. If you'd read and understood what I posted, you'd know that.

[jake]

That's fine, but Japan and the USA would rather do a deal that sees entry to the single European market. The U.K. On its own is rather peripheral.

 

Whats the details of these deals?

Who do they benefit?

Are we unable to strike deals with other nations?

Individual European countries have massive economic interests in the UK.

Free trade will continue.

Its almost as if some people want it to go pear shaped.

There will be benefits to brexit.

There will be drawbacks.

But essentially we will have control and its up to us to vote which political way to do that.

 

As for scottish independence.

I cannot get my head round the wish to be indy and remain.

[pablo]

Sturgeon going to work with the PM now apparently. What happened to the only acceptable outcome being full EU membership for Scotland? Come to think about it, what about noise she made about Labour working with the Tories on Better Together? Looks like it's alright for her to do so on Brexit. Yet again, she's all over the place. Material change and all that.....

[pablo]

Sturgeon going to work with the PM now apparently. What happened to the only acceptable outcome being full EU membership for Scotland? Come to think about it, what about noise she made about Labour working with the Tories on Better Together? Looks like it's alright for her to do so on Brexit. Yet again, she's all over the place. Material change and all that.....

[Cade]

David Davis was a disgrace in Parliament yesterday.

 

His plans for Brexit are: "Brexit means Brexit. We may not even try to stay part of the common market"

 

That's it.

 

That's all they've got.

[Boris]

Whats the details of these deals? I don't know, I'm not a trade negotiator

Who do they benefit? In theory the nations involved, in practice businesses

Are we unable to strike deals with other nations? Of course not, but our hand is less when isolated

Individual European countries have massive economic interests in the UK. They do, but not as much as within the single market and the trade deals signed by it.

Free trade will continue. Obviously.

Its almost as if some people want it to go pear shaped. Perhaps some do, but an "I told you so" attitude is rather Nihlistic.

There will be benefits to brexit. Let's hope so.  I have to admit I'm struggling to see any yet.

There will be drawbacks. Undoubtedly.  Hopefully they are not too severe.

But essentially we will have control and its up to us to vote which political way to do that.

 

As for scottish independence.

I cannot get my head round the wish to be indy and remain. Access to the single market and the benefits that it brings, human rights act.  That said, if Scotland were to get independence then any EU joining stipulations must be made transparent and the people should decide.  The EU in its current form certainly needs reformed imo, but leaving it wasn't really the answer, again imo.  All this "taking back control" is hyperbolic nonsense.  I await our elected second chamber and head of state!

 

.

[Boris]

Sturgeon going to work with the PM now apparently. What happened to the only acceptable outcome being full EU membership for Scotland? Come to think about it, what about noise she made about Labour working with the Tories on Better Together? Looks like it's alright for her to do so on Brexit. Yet again, she's all over the place. Material change and all that.....

 

I suspect her voive in EU talks will be louder than Labour's in the Better Together campaign.

 

What do you expect her to do?  As FM she has a responsibility to push Scotland's interests.

 

Quite a sensible approach, really.  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37266240

 

Once the full ramifications of Brexit become apparent, then that is when the Union may be in a precarious state.

[pablo]

I suspect her voive in EU talks will be louder than Labour's in the Better Together campaign.

 

What do you expect her to do? As FM she has a responsibility to push Scotland's interests.

 

Quite a sensible approach, really. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37266240

 

Once the full ramifications of Brexit become apparent, then that is when the Union may be in a precarious state.

Of course I expect the FM to act in the best interests of Scotland. I welcome her belatedly making the right noises and change of direction. But let's be clear, the change of direction is due to the failure of any bounce for Scottish Independence in the wake of the Brexit vote.

[Cade]

Any and all speculation is meaningless until Article 50 is invoked and trade deals are made. 

 

Yes, this will take anywhere from 2-10 years, and then we have to wait to see the effects of those deals, but that's just how it is.

 

Years of uncertainty cannot be a good thing, however. That's the only thing that's obvious.

 

It's daft that the media are using every month's figures to attack or defend the Brexit referendum result.....it's far too early to see any long term changes and the rabid speculation makes the media look silly.

[Boris]

Of course I expect the FM to act in the best interests of Scotland. I welcome her belatedly making the right noises and change of direction. But let's be clear, the change of direction is due to the failure of any bounce for Scottish Independence in the wake of the Brexit vote.

 

Until the effects of Brexit are known, I'm not surprised there has been little impact on Independence preferences.

 

I'm not sure it is a change of direction either, but I guess that's a moot point.

[jack D and coke]

Nice trade deal with Australia.

Exports are more competitive tourism has seen a boost.

Hardly the sign of an inward looking nation.

Japan has its own interests as does the US i dont see them devolving sovereignty.

Why do they think we should?

Exactly. America would never sign a deal to join anything like the EU.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Boris]

Exactly. America would never sign a deal to join anything like the EU.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The US is essentially an EU in itself!  That aside, why would it want to join an EU type organisation?  It's sheer size means it doesn't have to.

[pablo]

Until the effects of Brexit are known, I'm not surprised there has been little impact on Independence preferences.

 

I'm not sure it is a change of direction either, but I guess that's a moot point.

There's been no shift towards independence in 2 years. This is despite the Brexit vote and all the bluster about Scotland dragged out of the EU against it's will etc etc. So why do you think that Sturgeon said that a second referendum was highly likely and has now moved position from only full EU membership being acceptable to access to the European market as a make do?

[Boris]

There's been no shift towards independence in 2 years. This is despite the Brexit vote and all the bluster about Scotland dragged out of the EU against it's will etc etc. So why do you think that Sturgeon said that a second referendum was highly likely and has now moved position from only full EU membership being acceptable to access to the European market as a make do?

 

Oh, I don't disagree that there is a level of realpolitik going on, that's to be expected.

 

I also think that full EU membership was a starting point, with the SIngle MArket being a more achievable position i.e. go in high then negotiate.

 

It seems though that despite May's initial comments, it is Westminster doing this regardless of feeling/comment from the devolved parliaments.  Which is constitutionally fair enough.

 

As has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the real ramifications of Brexit may not be felt for years.  Then we shall see how the land lies.

[joseywales]

I'm sure you'll get an appointment much quicker once the local Polish/Lithuanian/French/Italian doctor or nurse has ****ed off back home after his family have been told they're no longer welcome...

Agreed

[Ibrahim Tall]

Agreed

I'm not sure you do if you've understood my post as it's the opposite of what you've wrote.

[Mister T]

So people are worried about the uncertainty caused by brexit but are happy to jump in with sturgeon for the uncertainty of independence and no guarantee of getting in to a failing Europe? Crazee.

[Cade]

Mind how last night David Davis stood up in Parliament an said no the the single market?

 

Theresa May has said that was just his own opinion and not Government policy.

 

Not only is there not a plan, they can't even agree what's not in it!

 

[Boris]

Mind how last night David Davis stood up in Parliament an said no the the single market?

 

Theresa May has said that was just his own opinion and not Government policy.

 

Not only is there not a plan, they can't even agree what's not in it!

 

 

It's farcical.

[joseywales]

I'm not sure you do if you've understood my post as it's the opposite of what you've wrote.

Yes I knew you meant the opposite but I was being sarcastic.

[jake]

the details of these deals? I don't know, I'm not a trade negotiator

Who do they benefit? In theory the nations involved, in practice businesses

Are we unable to strike deals with other nations? Of course not, but our hand is less when isolated

Individual European countries have massive economic interests in the UK. They do, but not as much as within the single market and the trade deals signed by it.

Free trade will continue. Obviously.

Its almost as if some people want it to go pear shaped. Perhaps some do, but an "I told you so" attitude is rather Nihlistic.

There will be benefits to brexit. Let's hope so. I have to admit I'm struggling to see any yet.

There will be drawbacks. Undoubtedly. Hopefully they are not too severe.

But essentially we will have control and its up to us to vote which political way to do that.

 

As for scottish independence.

I cannot get my head round the wish to be indy and remain. Access to the single market and the benefits that it brings, human rights act. That said, if Scotland were to get independence then any EU joining stipulations must be made transparent and the people should decide. The EU in its current form certainly needs reformed imo, but leaving it wasn't really the answer, again imo. All this "taking back control" is hyperbolic nonsense. I await our elected second chamber and head of state!

 

.

Sorry i thought you commented about knowledge of trade deals falling through.

 

European trade deals suit the German economy .

 

Its a world economy and the UK is very much able to deal with that.

German exports to the uk are behind only usa and france.

Its worth an awful lot to the German economy.

Id expect the major economies in Europe will be similar.

 

Why do you want an independent Scotland?

 

 

Dont know what happened .

Boris this is a reply to you.

[aussieh]

But happy to have the EU controlling our borders and laws and abusing our country/people/assets?

Very happy Indeed, if it means eff off WM.

[aussieh]

PMSL, I wasn't solely blaming the snp(if you read and understood what i posted you'd know that) I was merely pointing out the irony that the snp have been banging on about thatcher for 37 years yet they helped bring her to power. Anyway, the snp don't do irony, just propaganda so they will continue to not mention their part in her elevation to prime minister.

Labour reneged on devo, that's what brought about thatcher.

[aussieh]

Who's going to be the scapegoat when independence goes t*ts up and there's no tories or English to blame?

Why would it go tits up? Plenty of smaller countries than ours doing great with their own currency and banks.

 

Its our responsibility to run our country. We don't need to rely on any other country to survive.

Saying that, We could always get wm to bring about boom and bust.

 

 

Take full control, it's the only way.

 

Tick tock

 

 

Mintit!!!!!!

[aussieh]

Still in the EU then.

Cut all ties now, that's what you britnatz voted for.

 

Only England does the ruling on these islands.

[aussieh]

Imagine Joseywales and AussieH in a room, arguing the rights and wrongs of the british union.

 

Would be fine viewing.

Pointless exercise, there is nothing right about Britain or being British.

End of.

 

 

Oops I forget. There is a wing.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Any and all speculation is meaningless until Article 50 is invoked and trade deals are made. 

 

Yes, this will take anywhere from 2-10 years, and then we have to wait to see the effects of those deals, but that's just how it is.

 

Years of uncertainty cannot be a good thing, however. That's the only thing that's obvious.

 

It's daft that the media are using every month's figures to attack or defend the Brexit referendum result.....it's far too early to see any long term changes and the rabid speculation makes the media look silly.

 

Well TTIP is 5 years and counting. Well done the mighty EU.

[jake]

Why would it go tits up? Plenty of smaller countries than ours doing great with their own currency and banks.

 

Its our responsibility to run our country. We don't need to rely on any other country to survive.

Saying that, We could always get wm to bring about boom and bust.

 

 

Take full control, it's the only way.

 

Tick tock

 

 

Mintit!!!!!!

 

Does anyone apart from me read open mouthed at the way aussie argues both sides of the coin.

 

On the one hand slags of the voters who opted for brexit.

Says we are ****ed out of EU.

 

Then arguez the same points as brexiters.

 

This is what astounds me by snp supporters.

 

EU will cut trading links.

But England wont with us

 

EU is our biggest trading partner we will suffer

England is our biggest trading partner there will be no consequence.

Eu will stop freedom of movement

Travel will be more difficult.

England wont do this

 

 

Scare monger about brexit

All you unionists are scaremongering about independence.

 

Aussie h you just cant see it and if you can the hypocrisy is laughable.

[jake]

Still in the EU then.

Cut all ties now, that's what you britnatz voted for.

 

Only England does the ruling on these islands.

 

So if we vote for independence all will be sorted in under 3 months?

Actually we have democracy to decide how we are ruled.

There has been two recent votes.

One for Scotland we chose to remain part of the uk.

And one for the uk we chose to exit.

 

Thats rule by plebiscite according to the twats who write for the guardian.

So ruled by the English is a juvenile braveheart response.

 

The people of scotland voted.

And as part of that vote we remained and voted as part of a union.

Democratic will .

Thats a good place to be.

No bloodshed.

Just votes.

[aussieh]

Will metric be dropped, Back to ft and inches?

[aussieh]

So if we vote for independence all will be sorted in under 3 months?

Actually we have democracy to decide how we are ruled.

There has been two recent votes.

One for Scotland we chose to remain part of the uk.

And one for the uk we chose to exit.

 

Thats rule by plebiscite according to the twats who write for the guardian.

So ruled by the English is a juvenile braveheart response.

 

The people of scotland voted.

And as part of that vote we remained and voted as part of a union.

Democratic will .

Thats a good place to be.

No bloodshed.

Just votes.

Under 3 seconds.

[aussieh]

So if we vote for independence all will be sorted in under 3 months?

Actually we have democracy to decide how we are ruled.

There has been two recent votes.

One for Scotland we chose to remain part of the uk.

And one for the uk we chose to exit.

 

Thats rule by plebiscite according to the twats who write for the guardian.

So ruled by the English is a juvenile braveheart response.

 

The people of scotland voted.

And as part of that vote we remained and voted as part of a union.

Democratic will .

Thats a good place to be.

No bloodshed.

Just votes.

So democratic, no EU citizens resident here, or 16 &17 allowed the vote.

[jake]

Under 3 seconds.

 

A bit like a goldfish

[aussieh]

Does anyone apart from me read open mouthed at the way aussie argues both sides of the coin.

 

On the one hand slags of the voters who opted for brexit.

Says we are ****ed out of EU.

 

Then arguez the same points as brexiters.

 

This is what astounds me by snp supporters.

 

EU will cut trading links.

But England wont with us

 

EU is our biggest trading partner we will suffer

England is our biggest trading partner there will be no consequence.

Eu will stop freedom of movement

Travel will be more difficult.

England wont do this

 

 

Scare monger about brexit

All you unionists are scaremongering about independence.

 

Aussie h you just cant see it and if you can the hypocrisy is laughable.

No.

 

Scotland will be fine indepent and England will be fine out of the EU.

Scotland will be fecked in the UK out the EU.

[jake]

So democratic, no EU citizens resident here, or 16 &17 allowed the vote.

 

Or like the EU political elite except no one voted them in.

Just dont get how you think independence is good for Scotland but bad for the uk.

You make the same arguments as project fear did pre indy vote against brexit.

And then the same arguments as brexit for scottish independence.

 

Its fekin hilarious watching the snp brainwashed.

[jake]

No.

 

Scotland will be fine indepent and England will be fine out of the EU.

Scotland will be fecked in the UK out the EU.

 

Scotland will not be a sovereign nation in control .

It will be as it is now .

Devolved.

Controlled by a government elite thats unelected.

[Boris]

.

Sorry i thought you commented about knowledge of trade deals falling through.

 

European trade deals suit the German economy .

 

Its a world economy and the UK is very much able to deal with that.

German exports to the uk are behind only usa and france.

Its worth an awful lot to the German economy.

Id expect the major economies in Europe will be similar.

 

Why do you want an independent Scotland?

 

 

Dont know what happened .

Boris this is a reply to you.

 

Hey Jake,

 

The UK will still trade with the EU, it is just on what terms.  If freedom of movement is the sticking point, we will end up with a worse deal.  Overseas investors will leave and relocated within the EU.  The value of our exports will drop, as we will have less to export, and our goods may be less enticing due to tariffs, therefore making them more expensive. (as I understandit anyway!)

 

Now, the flip side is, as you say, other countries export to us so it makes sense to strike a deal that suits everyone.

 

Which them brings you back to square one.  That deal was called the EU.

 

But something will have to give.  It is either immigration or trade.  And it looks like it will be trade.

 

Why do I want an independent Scotland?  Well, I'm fed up with the UK political system.  It is undemocratic and unlikely to change.  The EU referendum brought up a lot about being told what to do by unelected persons, about "taking back" control.  The UK system is, to me undemocratic, FPTP not a fair electoral system imo and in areas unaccountable (House of Lords, Head of State).

 

If the UK wants to change, then maybe, but it feels to me that their is an insular mentality developing, nominally British, but looks like a little englander mentality to me.  And for that reason, I'm out!

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Whats the details of these deals?

Who do they benefit?

Are we unable to strike deals with other nations?

Individual European countries have massive economic interests in the UK.

Free trade will continue.

Its almost as if some people want it to go pear shaped.

There will be benefits to brexit.

There will be drawbacks.

But essentially we will have control and its up to us to vote which political way to do that.

 

As for scottish independence.

I cannot get my head round the wish to be indy and remain.

 

Simple. A hatred of the English.

[Boris]

Simple. A hatred of the English.

 

Nonsense.