'Our' oil

[i8hibsh]

Your lack of political knowledge is outstanding. Your means testing comment highlights this.

 

You would fit right in to the Labour Party with the flip flopping you have done on this thread.

 

All you ever say toggie is "I find your lack of political knowledge outstanding etc"

 

prove me wrong Mr Wallace

 

Can I ask a question, where you born in 88 ,like your name suggests?

 

I thinks the demographics etc indicate that the Nats tend to be 'young'

scots. Obviously there are exceptions but i think it is fair to say the younger Scots are pro SNP

[hmfc_steve]

Before even clicking on it I see the words dragon and Wallace on it and I am fearing the worst - straight of the chubby wee crusaders propoganda machine

 

fair enough about the reference not the most reputable nor academic I agree, but even scrolling through it's contents, and what I know myself off the top of my head led me to believe it wasn't a million miles off.... and I couldn't be bothered searching for cross reference confirmations !

[i8hibsh]

Ahahahahahahaha

 

and any credibility you had goes out the window.

 

 

So the SNP are too left wing, yet they are the same as the BNP and NSDAP - that makes sense.

 

I suggest you stop highlighting your lack of political knowledge, you embarrassing yourself. Therapist must be squirm at this thread.

 

It's called trying to get a reaction, clearly the SNP are nothing like the other 2 as the other 2 don't deny their hatred towards other races

[Toggie88]

I'm off to bed.

 

I'm politics't out for today. Going to go google image search Amy MacDonald

[Patrick Bateman]

I just am not blinkered and can see what the Union really does

 

I'm sorry, but that's just nonsense. Your arguments range from the emotive to the factually incorrect, to date I can't recall anything which you could substantiate or expand on. The only line unionists can safely travel are the complexities of division (re armed forces, NHS, etc) - attacking SNP supporters as ignorant is just, well, weak.

 

You seem convinced that anyone who supports the SNP is a kilt-wearing, anti-English racist; this simply doesn't hold true. There is nothing Anti-English about wanting your own nation to earn its own way and determine its own future. I don't think we're oppressed or harbour any anti-English sentiment, but I do feel that its time for Scotland to take its own responsibility and place in the world.

[i8hibsh]

fair enough about the reference not the most reputable nor academic I agree, but even scrolling through it's contents, and what I know myself off the top of my head led me to believe it wasn't a million miles off.... and I couldn't be bothered searching for cross reference confirmations !

 

I agree with it and am immensely proud

 

I am not going to let it guide or prejudice my political vision tho

[Toggie88]

It's called trying to get a reaction, clearly the SNP are nothing like the other 2 as the other 2 don't deny their hatred towards other races

 

If your simply on the wind up, fair play - you're convincing.

[Drew Busby !]

Nationalism is a horrible horrible thing

 

Here is an umbrella................

BNP

SNP

NAZI Party

 

All snug and dry underneath it

 

Your comparison is a fecking disgrace.

[i8hibsh]

I'm off to bed.

 

I'm politics't out for today. Going to go google image search Amy MacDonald

 

I'm with you on that one - she is tidy

[i8hibsh]

I'm watching a prog on ch5 right now called Married to the eiffel tower just like the one last week about the guys who had sex with their cars, anyway i expect next weeks one to be

 

I am in love with the Loch Ness Monster and it'l be about our Scotish embarrassment Salmond

[i8hibsh]

Your comparison is a fecking disgrace.

 

I know they are dissimilar

 

i don't think SNP are an evil party I just see Nationalism as evil

 

that guys is my point

 

Nationalism doesnt work

[Toggie88]

All you ever say toggie is "I find your lack of political knowledge outstanding etc"

 

prove me wrong Mr Wallace

 

Can I ask a question, where you born in 88 ,like your name suggests?

 

I thinks the demographics etc indicate that the Nats tend to be 'young'

scots. Obviously there are exceptions but i think it is fair to say the younger Scots are pro SNP

 

I am yes, but I don't think that has anything to do with it.

 

Statistics show that students, and those in the 18 - 25 bracket didn't vote for en masse, and in fact more votes went to Labour.

 

It's true that wisdom does come with age, but it doesn't mean that all young people are wrong. If that were true we should just allow the nation to be governed by OAPs.

[i8hibsh]

I'm off to bed.

 

I'm politics't out for today. Going to go google image search Amy MacDonald

 

Why do you have a massive English political crusader as your avator?

[Toggie88]

I'm with you on that one - she is tidy

 

See, even those on the opposite side of the great political divide of our time can unite in the hope of one day doing a hot bird.

 

There's hope for human race yet

[i8hibsh]

See, even those on the opposite side of the great political divide of our time can unite in the hope of one day doing a hot bird.

 

There's hope for human race yet

 

I Don't have time for birds Toggie - too busy fighting the political cause

 

Just like Salmond spends his life fighting a war that does not exist

[Toggie88]

Why do you have a massive English political crusader as your avator?

 

I think you are starting to move over to the 'light' side, I8 - you said English instead of British

[Boris]

I know they are dissimilar

 

i don't think SNP are an evil party I just see Nationalism as evil

 

that guys is my point

 

Nationalism doesnt work

 

Why bother about the Union then?

 

Are you coming round to the idea of an Internationale, comrade?

[Drew Busby !]

I know they are dissimilar

 

i don't think SNP are an evil party I just see Nationalism as evil

 

that guys is my point

 

Nationalism doesnt work

 

Someone better tell every nation state on the planet then, this "being a country" nonsense has been ruthlessly exposed by your rapier argument for what it is

 

USA ... it's all over...

France ... it's all over...

China ... it's all over...

[Chuck Berry]

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/iain_macwhirter/2008/06/north_sea_spoils.html

 

It is almost impossible to have a conversation with a Nationalist without them mentioning the oil

 

Now I am sorry but here is where I stand

 

Yes it is indeed a valuable resource.

Yes Scotland should indeed benefit from it

 

Now that is where the agreement ends with the Nats

 

Here is the reality

 

1. It is not 'ours' - we do not own the North Sea

2.When voluntarily signing the treaty of the Union we agreed that all money earned in the Union should go into a pot and be shared - note this was ok back when weweer in dire straits and had nothing. Now we have something we want it all.

3.It is not an infinate reasource (although it is estimated still 50 billion barrells to drill for)

4.One day (in the very near future) oil will not be required as friendlier resources will be available - FACT

 

[Chuck Berry]

Toggie FFS dude!!!

 

I have never once said Scotland would become a third world country if we go it alone.

 

I know what we are and can imagine what we can do. It's a gamble that I am in no doubt we would pull off - at least in the interim.

 

My 9 million page thesis that you so delicately red penned with drivelous annotations clearly states how i feel

 

I am so sick of the insecure Nats using examples of countries who 'do it alone' in every sentence.

 

Tell me where are Norway on the political heavyweight scale? In a world where we are all under threat from terrorism, i like to have an alrm in my house, padlock and CCTV.

 

Norway live in a mansion but their doors are wide wide open with no security entrence.

 

Do you get me?

 

We are already part of the top 8 most powerful and richest countries in the world. We are part of a country and old empire that has given the world almost everything (slight exaggeration)

 

I know about the Scottish enlightenment- no doubt what we done but you can work, live,fight,develop and invent alone or you can bring in the help of a far bigger and superior body and make some formidable force

 

[Chuck Berry]

The Scottish Embarrasment Party have 100% not put 1000 new police on the streets.Sheer rubbish.

 

They have not even honoured their manifesto promise of 500.

 

Here is what they have done

 

Scrapped tolls on the Forth Road Bridge. What a joke!!! this created much needed revenue by charging commuters who opt out of living in Edinburgh for the cheaper housing outside a little something to come in

Given free education to ALL(and I do mean ALL). If someone wants to go and study flower arranging at a polytechnic let them bleedin pay for it. i agree with free education for 'resepctable' courses.Scotland is not a charity - let non Scots pay for their education.

Cut the prescription charges with no discrimination!!!

 

I'm sorry but if someone wants 5 jags as they are going on holiday to thailand then that is great but save the free prescriptions etc for the elderly.

If someone can afford to pay let them pay

 

Have SNP ever evne heard of means tested btw?

 

All I see is them making all these cuts on day to day things to win favour (whilst secretly mouthing off at Westminster for not giving us enough dosh)

 

They seem to think money grows on trees.

 

Paying teachers and nurses more in scotland as a fingers up to England. They will then have to give all emergenct services more money (which they do deserve) but economics simply can't justify it.

 

McKaskill the 'justice' minister is a joke. We have less people going to jail - granted!! this is because most criminals are getting away Scot free.

 

I want my hard earned money to go toward supporting the elderly and needy, making our streets safe and putting paedos etc in jail where they belong

 

I don't want my money to go toward changing the stationary of the Scottish Executive, putting *****s into polytechnics who will spend 3 years peeing my money agianst a wall and cheuafering the completely irrelevant MSPS about town in taxis!

 

you're brilliant comedy value, I'll give you that.

 

The unfortunate thing is, you're not the only one that spouts such absolute nonsense - the Daily Record and The Sun do so daily.

[Chuck Berry]

Nationalism is a horrible horrible thing

 

Here is an umbrella................

BNP

SNP

NAZI Party

 

All snug and dry underneath it

 

You are a complete nutter

[jambosim]

I know they are dissimilar

 

i don't think SNP are an evil party I just see Nationalism as evil

 

that guys is my point

 

Nationalism doesnt work

 

Look mate how the ****** u know it doesnt work, the facts speak for themselves we have more than enough ability to stand on or own 2 feet, with the amount of oil/gas available at present ( i.e as of tomorrow no more is found) to have an income for the next 50 bloody years with prices only on the up as well as new resources and other sources.

 

so less of the scotland isnt self efficient bullsh*t we give out more per person than we recieve so cut the crap!!!

 

rant over

 

FTH :107years:

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I think the OP should take some "happy" pills. He makes Wendy Alexander look competent!

[Denny Crane]

Nationalism is a horrible horrible thing

 

Here is an umbrella................

BNP

SNP

NAZI Party

 

All snug and dry underneath it

 

 

How many units of alcohol have you consumed over the course of this thread? I ask because with the above post, you are either the victim of a poor education or you are drunk.

[murdo_b]

Eh ... that was by S.U.S.S ... one of your unionist cronies ... the one with the hitler moustache painted onto Salmond.

 

If you boys are the best advocates of the union on JKB then believe me , its totally and utterly fecked.

 

Well said

 

The irony seems to be lost on them with the bile they spew out about Salmond.

 

I just don't get it being anti English to want to have self governance.

Could it be as simple as that those who believe in independence just think Scotland would be a better place for everyone who lives here where ever they originally come from.

[Peebo]

Is there not some guy trying to go to court about it at the moment? Not that I'm saying that I think he'll be successful, obviously he won't.

 

Yup, and he ain't from either Shetland or the Scottish mainland. In any case, the relative cultural differences between Shetland vs Scotland, and Scotland vs England is a moot point.

 

As for your more general point about Shetland's potential claim, many of the (UK) fields actually lie outwith the grasp that the Law of the Sea gives them. Many of them also lie within the grasp of England.

[doctor jambo]

Firstly I am not a nationalist

Nor am I a Unionist though

However it is startlinlg clear that were Scotland to gain independence all the worries about free personal care, police numbers, funding prison services etc would become irrelevant over night

We , as a nation would become fabulously wealthy overnight, and for the next HALF A CENTURY, giving plenty time to inward invest to prevent disaster after that

My only reservation is- do we have the politicians of sufficient calibre to cope and not squander this natural advantage?

Many countries on paper are rich, but in reality are impoverished due to their political classes

We need better politicians

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Eh ... that was by S.U.S.S ... one of your unionist cronies ... the one with the hitler moustache painted onto Salmond.

 

If you boys are the best advocates of the union on JKB then believe me , its totally and utterly fecked.

 

Here we go again, lets label everyone. Im a unionist crony, toggie is a face painting savage etc etc.

 

Tell me, are all those of darker skin just darkies to you?

[Drew Busby !]

Here we go again, lets label everyone. Im a unionist crony, toggie is a face painting savage etc etc.

 

Tell me, are all those of darker skin just darkies to you?

 

That comment tells me all I need to know.

 

You and your mates have issues. You in particular should seek help. A "Hitlerised" avatar...your "hate the English" references (when no-one else was making any such comment on this thread) ... and now this "darkies" comment.

 

You sound repressed, pathetic and warped all at the same time.

 

Get help.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

That comment tells me all I need to know.

 

You and your mates have issues. You in particular should seek help. A "Hitlerised" avatar...your "hate the English" references (when no-one else was making any such comment on this thread) ... and now this "darkies" comment.

 

You sound repressed, pathetic and warped all at the same time.

 

Get help.

 

Your the one labelling people. I asked a question, you never answered, tells me everything i need to know.

 

Its not the only "Hitlerised" avatar on the board, perhaps you should try and purchase a sense of humour may stop you coming across as a self righteous preacher.

 

The only pathetic thing on this thread is your attempt at psychoanalysis.

[Drew Busby !]

Your the one labelling people. I asked a question, you never answered, tells me everything i need to know.

 

Its not the only "Hitlerised" avatar on the board, perhaps you should try and purchase a sense of humour may stop you coming across as a self righteous preacher.

 

The only pathetic thing on this thread is your attempt at psychoanalysis.

 

I prefer being a self-righteous preacher to being a twisted feck who dabbles with racist innuendo as part of his (ahem) "debating strategy". But thats just me.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

I prefer being a self-righteous preacher to being a twisted feck who dabbles with racist innuendo as part of his (ahem) "debating strategy". But thats just me.

 

Yup you know me right enough, you need to get a burd mate, (or young lad if thats more you style) you come across as a frustrated angry little boy.

[Toggie88]

Firstly I am not a nationalist

Nor am I a Unionist though

However it is startlinlg clear that were Scotland to gain independence all the worries about free personal care, police numbers, funding prison services etc would become irrelevant over night

We , as a nation would become fabulously wealthy overnight, and for the next HALF A CENTURY, giving plenty time to inward invest to prevent disaster after that

My only reservation is- do we have the politicians of sufficient calibre to cope and not squander this natural advantage?

Many countries on paper are rich, but in reality are impoverished due to their political classes

We need better politicians

 

I understand your point.

 

The Scottish Parliament is often accused of having a "lesser calibre" of MSPs than the Westminster Parliament.

 

I'd like to make it clear first off that I'm by no means having a go at you. This is one of the mentality that has held Scotland back. We seem to be continously told by the UK Government, the Press etc that we are unable to run our own affairs and are not smart enough. I don't believe this to be true in the slightest, Scotland has experts in a number of fields, and is as capable as any other nation in the world at running her own affairs.

 

In relation to your point regarding using our natural resources effeciently, I'd like to point to the current SNP policy - which is ofcourse a Norwegian style oil fund. I, like many experts, believe this to be a superb way to take advantage of this.

[Drew Busby !]

Yup you know me right enough, you need to get a burd mate, (or young lad if thats more you style) you come across as a frustrated angry little boy.

 

Congratulations on dragging the debate from a perfectly legitimate opening question about Scotland and oil ... to then implying I'm a racist ("darkies") and questioning my sexuality !

 

Did you learn this "robust" debating style of yours at The Oxford Union ? :

[Toggie88]

Your the one labelling people. I asked a question, you never answered, tells me everything i need to know.

 

Its not the only "Hitlerised" avatar on the board, perhaps you should try and purchase a sense of humour may stop you coming across as a self righteous preacher.

 

The only pathetic thing on this thread is your attempt at psychoanalysis.

 

It's funny, but it would be just as funny if it was anyone else.

 

Comparing the First Minister to Adolf Hitler, in any shape or form is misguided at best and illogical, uneducation and incompetent debating at worst.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Congratulations on dragging the debate from a perfectly legitimate opening question about Scotland and oil ... to then implying I'm a racist ("darkies") and questioning my sexuality !

 

Did you learn this "robust" debating style of yours at The Oxford Union ? :

 

Have a look back through the posts you began to personalise them when you quoted and tried to show how clever you were with your pshycobable and abuse, thus taking them from the OP.

 

Try to get your facts right before accusing others.

[i8hibsh]

you're brilliant comedy value, I'll give you that.

 

The unfortunate thing is, you're not the only one that spouts such absolute nonsense - the Daily Record and The Sun do so daily.

 

A wee guy rolling about on the ground laughing - you are great at arguing your defence

[Patrick Bateman]

A wee guy rolling about on the ground laughing - you are great at arguing your defence

 

 

 

[Makween]

Yup, and he ain't from either Shetland or the Scottish mainland. In any case, the relative cultural differences between Shetland vs Scotland, and Scotland vs England is a moot point.

 

As for your more general point about Shetland's potential claim, many of the (UK) fields actually lie outwith the grasp that the Law of the Sea gives them. Many of them also lie within the grasp of England.

 

I don't see why where he comes from is of any relevance whatsoever. If I recall correctly, he's English - but so what?

 

As for the rest of your post, it's irrelevant. Oil supplies are used as an argument in favour of Scottish independence, I've never once heard anyone use them as an argument in favour of the Union.

[i8hibsh]

I don't see why where he comes from is of any relevance whatsoever. If I recall correctly, he's English - but so what?

 

As for the rest of your post, it's irrelevant. Oil supplies are used as an argument in favour of Scottish independence, I've never once heard anyone use them as an argument in favour of the Union.

 

That bro is a damn good point!

[Drew Busby !]

I don't see why where he comes from is of any relevance whatsoever. If I recall correctly, he's English - but so what?

 

As for the rest of your post, it's irrelevant. Oil supplies are used as an argument in favour of Scottish independence, I've never once heard anyone use them as an argument in favour of the Union.

 

Nor have I. It's an interesting thesis though. Can you expand your argument ?

[i8hibsh]

Nor have I. It's an interesting thesis though. Can you expand your argument ?

 

His point is clear.

 

Everyone thinks The English etc are dependent on the Union to keep the oil wealth

 

I have never once heard a Unionist use this argument

[Toggie88]

People seem to be forgetting that we could have the same amount of oil to the west of Scotland as we currently do in the North Sea.

[Makween]

Nor have I. It's an interesting thesis though. Can you expand your argument ?

 

"My" argument?

 

It's not my argument. I think that you should read the post again, maybe a bit more carefully this time. The guy that I was quoting said that the oil wasn't necessarily England's either - my point was that that isn't really relevant because the oil reserves aren't used as an argument in favour of the Union.

 

Do you understand now?

 

People seem to be forgetting that we could have the same amount of oil to the west of Scotland as we currently do in the North Sea.

 

There could be loads of gold in my attic. Wouldn't quit my job based on that, though.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

To be honest I know nothing about this issue and I can't say this thread has helped. A definitive discussion though it clearly is....

[Makween]

To be honest I know nothing about this issue and I can't say this thread has helped. A definitive discussion though it clearly is....

 

It's now that much better because of your post, well done.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

People seem to be forgetting that we could have the same amount of oil to the west of Scotland as we currently do in the North Sea.

 

Now now Toggie, as your say "could", perhaps the oil we currently pump could dry up unexpectedly, perhaps the reserves are far lower than we estimate, thats all supposition.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

It's now that much better because of your post, well done.

 

And yours Congrats

[Drew Busby !]

His point is clear.

 

Everyone thinks The English etc are dependent on the Union to keep the oil wealth

 

I have never once heard a Unionist use this argument

 

I think theres a good reason for that but fair play to Makween for putting his head above the parapet with a new angle on this in the thread. However I still don't understand this argument..."Oil supplies as an argument in favour of the Union."

 

What substantive points support this argument .. 2 or 3 will be fine !