Craigieboy Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Sorting out Tynecastle is the last piece of the jigsaw. If anyone can do it, I believe Ann can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 It could look something like this (I pinched this photo from someone on this forum and duplicated the Wheatfield stand): That looks great, however the ?14m cost will have to fit in many more seats and corporate boxes to make it pay its way, so Id expect and double tier stand, much deeper with corporate boxes separating the upper and lower decks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I thought that Ann would put forward a certain amount and reclaim it through the FOH. Similar to her initial take over. Along with a 500 club and corporate sponsorship I'm sure we could raise enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I thought that Ann would put forward a certain amount and reclaim it through the FOH. Similar to her initial take over. Along with a 500 club and corporate sponsorship I'm sure we could raise enough. I think we are exploring the options at the moment, there were (are) 2 main issues. One was the land / buildings at the back of the old stand that we don't own, and it sounds like we are exploring the options here. The second one is of course finance, the cost is estimated at ?14m once we have the plan in place we will need to look at the finance options, part of that may well be a longer term commitment by FOH members. However if we know anything about Ann and this new regime at Hearts, they will not make a move until everyone has been consulted and informed. So I can see no reason for people on here to ask questions about us giving her a mandate. (Not you CB) To have a solution you need a plan, when it comes to delivering on the plan, that's the time to involve all the stakeholders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I thought that Ann would put forward a certain amount and reclaim it through the FOH. Similar to her initial take over. Along with a 500 club and corporate sponsorship I'm sure we could raise enough. I think Ann would look for outside investment 1st and foremost(including naming rights) but I feel sure that I can trust her. The same could not be said about CPR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I think we are exploring the options at the moment, there were (are) 2 main issues. One was the land / buildings at the back of the old stand that we don't own, and it sounds like we are exploring the options here. The second one is of course finance, the cost is estimated at ?14m once we have the plan in place we will need to look at the finance options, part of that may well be a longer term commitment by FOH members. However if we know anything about Ann and this new regime at Hearts, they will not make a move until everyone has been consulted and informed. So I can see no reason for people on here to ask questions about us giving her a mandate. (Not you CB) To have a solution you need a plan, when it comes to delivering on the plan, that's the time to involve all the stakeholders. Regarding a longer term commitment by FOH members, I always assumed I would continue to pay my pledge for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Regarding a longer term commitment by FOH members, I always assumed I would continue to pay my pledge for life. Me too. If I can continue to afford it, and as the years go by, that amount becomes more manageable, I don't see any reason to cancel it now or in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungalow Bill Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Regarding a longer term commitment by FOH members, I always assumed I would continue to pay my pledge for life. That's because you understand the FoH model. It's frightening that some fans think they should stop their contributions once FoH takeover the club. Fans need to understand that through FoH the fans will be the owners and we have to collectively fund the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I'm just speculating here, but Ann has had a lot of focus on her this last year or so, with the Save the Children deal, plus the living wage has given the club a lot of good publicity, as well as the performance of the football club. With that in mind, and considering her business contacts, maybe there has never been a better time for us to secure some outside investment which could go towards the cost of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 It could look something like this (I pinched this photo from someone on this forum and duplicated the Wheatfield stand): That looks really smart, but as has been mentioned, would only take the capacity up to 19,000. Great pic though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 That's because you understand the FoH model. It's frightening that some fans think they should stop their contributions once FoH takeover the club. Fans need to understand that through FoH the fans will be the owners and we have to collectively fund the club. I get the model. I also get that it is a model that relies on us to ensure proper governance of it, which is more important than simply handing over money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I get the model. I also get that it is a model that relies on us to ensure proper governance of it, which is more important than simply handing over money.If we as fans have faith in what those running the foundation are doing, the most important thing is in fact us handing over money. I dont give a shiny shit about the governance of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Regarding a longer term commitment by FOH members, I always assumed I would continue to pay my pledge for life. I agree, and that's exactly how I see it, there will of course be some sort of attrition rate as people's personal circumstances change, but hopefully these can be offset by new pledges or even some people increasing their contributions if and when they can afford to. If we all thought like this then we could finance the new stand in this way, however as others have said, it will more than likely be a combination of different types of finance to pay for the new stand project. Sponsorship, stadium naming rights, 500 / 1000 clubs, as we as FOH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 If we as fans have faith in what those running the foundation are doing, the most important thing is in fact us handing over money. I dont give a shiny shit about the governance of it. It's not a question of "faith"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Parmesan Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Have been told about a 'wrap around' solution for the main stand/roseburn problem. Jizztastic! Intrigued by this - any idea what a "wrap around" would entail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo_Gaz Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I wouldn't. In fact, I'd actively oppose it. You'd probably be on your own then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Looks like demolition of current Roseburn, extending the pitch. Hopefully buying land at the back of the Roseburn to build a new Main & Roseburn with the corner filled in. long term plan to extend the wheatfield to meet this with filled in corner also (although this would be an uneccessary expense, an extention to the Wheatfield to meet the new pitch length would suffice). I am not in the know btw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corryjambo Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 It's not a question of "faith"! Is there any need for the sarcasm of the facepalm? Perhaps the poster does have faith in FOH and is quite happy to hand over his money without concerning himself over the governance. I am sure that many thousands of the contributors do not really concern themselves about the governance of the Foundation and are happy to pay their monthly contributions and see their club thrive, and take pride in the fact that they have helped bring the club back from the threat of liquidation with their contributions. Not everyone in life spends all their time on the internet, and may have other things to enjoy or indeed worry about without concerning themselves whether their ?10 per month contribution is being properly governed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Is there any need for the sarcasm of the facepalm? Perhaps the poster does have faith in FOH and is quite happy to hand over his money without concerning himself over the governance. I am sure that many thousands of the contributors do not really concern themselves about the governance of the Foundation and are happy to pay their monthly contributions and see their club thrive, and take pride in the fact that they have helped bring the club back from the threat of liquidation with their contributions. Not everyone in life spends all their time on the internet, and may have other things to enjoy or indeed worry about without concerning themselves whether their ?10 per month contribution is being properly governed. It's actually our duty to ensure it is governed properly. That's the point. And if there is a ?14m plan to develop the stadium which involves FoH participation or a liability then it is even more the case that we know the details (N.B. I'm sure we will be told and I'm sure the membership will support it but that's moot to the point I'm making). PS It's the evening here and how I spend my leisure time is my concern. Get back to work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungalow Bill Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I am sure that many thousands of the contributors do not really concern themselves about the governance of the Foundation and are happy to pay their monthly contributions and see their club thrive, and take pride in the fact that they have helped bring the club back from the threat of liquidation with their contributions. Hmmm, I know plenty fans including myself who are FoH members and would like clarity of what the future plans are for the foundation. Anyone who doesn't care about governance given our track record with owners needs their head examined. I'd like to know how the voting system is going to work, do we elect a board for say 2 years or 3 years? On what grounds can an emergency vote take place? Who gets to vote? Surely a member has to be a paying member for a minimum period of time to get voting rights. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 This boring thing called "governance" is what would (when it is in place) prevent future FoH Directors selling FoH's share in the club to some Roman Vladimirov type figure. Or committing the club to ground redevelopment that was not properly and robustly funded. Or seeing large chunks of revenue disappearing (see Big Hearts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Is there any need for the sarcasm of the facepalm? Perhaps the poster does have faith in FOH and is quite happy to hand over his money without concerning himself over the governance. I am sure that many thousands of the contributors do not really concern themselves about the governance of the Foundation and are happy to pay their monthly contributions and see their club thrive, and take pride in the fact that they have helped bring the club back from the threat of liquidation with their contributions. Not everyone in life spends all their time on the internet, and may have other things to enjoy or indeed worry about without concerning themselves whether their ?10 per month contribution is being properly governed. Sarcasm being the lowest form of wit doesnt bother me. Faith,trust, call it what you will, the club has never been on a better footing in my lifetime (I'm in my 40s).The fact is if the foundation get it wrong at any point they are well aware of the consequential reduction in pledgers. That alone ensures that I dont feel the need to panic over governance etc, and can leave them to get on with things. Some people just like a moan and whinge about anything,and use any opportunity they can to do just that. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in being comfortable that the club and foundation are being run in the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 This boring thing called "governance" is what would (when it is in place) prevent future FoH Directors selling FoH's share in the club to some Roman Vladimirov type figure. Or committing the club to ground redevelopment that was not properly and robustly funded. Or seeing large chunks of revenue disappearing (see Big Hearts). We do and will have proper articles of association and corporate governance along with a robust financial management system to ensure we don't have any further incidents like big hearts. No need for consultation at this exploratory stage, but once it comes to action and how to finance the new stand then we will of course be consulted and informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasavallan Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Sarcasm being the lowest form of wit doesnt bother me. Faith,trust, call it what you will, the club has never been on a better footing in my lifetime (I'm in my 40s). The fact is if the foundation get it wrong at any point they are well aware of the consequential reduction in pledgers. That alone ensures that I dont feel the need to panic over governance etc, and can leave them to get on with things. Some people just like a moan and whinge about anything,and use any opportunity they can to do just that. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in being comfortable that the club and foundation are being run in the right way. I have an even longer memory and recall back to the early 80s when Bobby Parker and the then Board were up sh!t creek without the proverbial until Wallace Mercer came along with his offer to buy the club. Even then it wasn't an easy process as the private (owners) shareholders (my grandfather was one) had to vote to change the constitution of the club to allow Mercer to buy 'new' shares. My grandfather voted for the change but there were those who voted against. I suspect the club would have died a slow death if Mercer had not bought the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 PS It's the evening here and how I spend my leisure time is my concern. Get back to work! It's a bank holiday Monday... he (or she) might be off Geoff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Sarcasm being the lowest form of wit doesnt bother me. Faith,trust, call it what you will, the club has never been on a better footing in my lifetime (I'm in my 40s). The fact is if the foundation get it wrong at any point they are well aware of the consequential reduction in pledgers. That alone ensures that I dont feel the need to panic over governance etc, and can leave them to get on with things. Some people just like a moan and whinge about anything,and use any opportunity they can to do just that. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in being comfortable that the club and foundation are being run in the right way. I think you are both saying the same thing in different ways, the FOH are trusted and reliable. One opinion based on gut feel and trust the other based on good governance, either way guys, its a good thing we have going for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Walnut Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Intrigued by this - any idea what a "wrap around" would entail? Indicated the new main stand would support and incorporate the roseburn in a way to accomplish a bigger pitch and run offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His name is Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 In Anne I trust! Out of interest does anyone know how much the land at tynecstle would be worth? If we were to move, could hearts as a club develop the land with residential and commercial properties for a long term investment? Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Indicated the new main stand would support and incorporate the roseburn in a way to accomplish a bigger pitch and run offs.Is the only way to do that not to move the roseburn back then?? Or to remove several rows of seats at the front?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corryjambo Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 It's actually our duty to ensure it is governed properly. That's the point. And if there is a ?14m plan to develop the stadium which involves FoH participation or a liability then it is even more the case that we know the details (N.B. I'm sure we will be told and I'm sure the membership will support it but that's moot to the point I'm making). PS It's the evening here and how I spend my leisure time is my concern. Get back to work! Due to the proper governance of my financial affairs I have not had to work for many years now and I am enjoying my retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 In Anne I trust! Out of interest does anyone know how much the land at tynecstle would be worth? If we were to move, could hearts as a club develop the land with residential and commercial properties for a long term investment? Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk I think FoH got an independent valuation of about ?4.5m during the CVA process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie Walnut Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Is the only way to do that not to move the roseburn back then?? Or to remove several rows of seats at the front?? No idea! Just passing on the very little limited info I have, there have been drawings done and presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Is the only way to do that not to move the roseburn back then?? Or to remove several rows of seats at the front?? They have talked to the distillery re purchasing 10/15 yards or so at the rear of the Roseburn stand for that very reason. Last talks were in July and the distillery would like to help There are issues though re light and access especially as the bowling club are so close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollyWolly Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 So the new stand would hold roughly 10000, that's a fair bit bigger than the wheatfield. It isn't actually possible in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 They have talked to the distillery re purchasing 10/15 yards or so at the rear of the Roseburn stand for that very reason. Last talks were in July and the distillery would like to help There are issues though re light and access especially as the bowling club are so close. Was it also not mentioned that the stands were built so they could be taken down and moved as required?Exciting times ahead thats for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glamorgan Jambo Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 In Anne I trust! Out of interest does anyone know how much the land at tynecstle would be worth? If we were to move, could hearts as a club develop the land with residential and commercial properties for a long term investment? Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk There's a so called 'anti-embarrassment' clause in the CVA that hands a percent of the uplift in land value to UKIO if Tynecastle is sold for anything other than football over a certain number of years. The owners of these parcels of land (mostly the council) would probably ask for similar clauses in any sale agreements to the club or FOH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoGwash Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Due to the proper governance of my financial affairs I have not had to work for many years now and I am enjoying my retirement. Lucky ******* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Jung Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 This boring thing called "governance" is what would (when it is in place) prevent future FoH Directors selling FoH's share in the club to some Roman Vladimirov type figure. Or committing the club to ground redevelopment that was not properly and robustly funded. Or seeing large chunks of revenue disappearing (see Big Hearts).We've been here before FA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Clancy Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Hmmm, I know plenty fans including myself who are FoH members and would like clarity of what the future plans are for the foundation. Anyone who doesn't care about governance given our track record with owners needs their head examined. I'd like to know how the voting system is going to work, do we elect a board for say 2 years or 3 years? On what grounds can an emergency vote take place? Who gets to vote? Surely a member has to be a paying member for a minimum period of time to get voting rights. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The FOH directors will be elected by the membership at each AGM and it is they who will appoint the club board members based on, I hope, their ability to run the football club properly. The FOH Board will set annual objectives, based on the direction set by the FOH membership at its AGM, but it will not (I hope) involve itself in the day to day running of the football club. That is a matter for the club board and the club board alone. We do not want either board attempting to influence team selection ( a la Romanov) because that is a matter for the manager. The governance must ensure there is total separation between the roles of the two boards and that those appointed to each board are appointed on the basis of ability and merit. I think all of the above is essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I do think that the long term plan will be to use FOH funds to pay some of the cost of the stand. That is clearly not mandated at the moment but once the loan to AB is paid off, the new stand will become the priority and I don't see the fans failing to back that sort of plan at a future AGM. If the stand is to cost around ?14m then you could potentially ring fence cash from transfer fees over a number of years until you have ?7m or more, try to get ?1-3m from naming rights etc then the fans only have to finance a debt of ?4m, which could potentially be loaned by Ann again if she so choses. Even if it was bank loan, I think it would be in the club's interest to do it. If the club can accumulate additional revenue then it's a no brainier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungalow Bill Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 The FOH directors will be elected by the membership at each AGM and it is they who will appoint the club board members based on, I hope, their ability to run the football club properly. The FOH Board will set annual objectives, based on the direction set by the FOH membership at its AGM, but it will not (I hope) involve itself in the day to day running of the football club. That is a matter for the club board and the club board alone. We do not want either board attempting to influence team selection ( a la Romanov) because that is a matter for the manager. The governance must ensure there is total separation between the roles of the two boards and that those appointed to each board are appointed on the basis of ability and merit. I think all of the above is essential. Interesting stuff, is this fact or just your opinion? I don't like the idea of voting for a board every year, hardly time to complete any plans etc. I guess the time period is something that will be agreed by members. I'd like to know about the voting too, who gets to vote, surely there will be a time period of membership before you get voting rights. Anyway, all questions for another thread no doubt. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Clancy Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Interesting stuff, is this fact or just your opinion? I don't like the idea of voting for a board every year, hardly time to complete any plans etc. I guess the time period is something that will be agreed by members. I'd like to know about the voting too, who gets to vote, surely there will be a time period of membership before you get voting rights. Anyway, all questions for another thread no doubt. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Most of it is based on the original principles of FOH, although I believe not everyone shares those views and the governance documents have still to be finalised and approved. Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that the whole of the FOH Board would need to be elected each year. There was only one member elected at last year's AGM; the remainder were already serving. I agree they should be elected to serve for a 3 year term, although it should be possible to deselect a director earlier than this, if he/she is failing to deliver. It is also the intention that at least one director post should be open to candidates at each AGM. All paying members will be entitled to one vote and able to vote, provided they are members before the cut off date set annually, prior to the AGM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 The FOH directors will be elected by the membership at each AGM and it is they who will appoint the club board members based on, I hope, their ability to run the football club properly. The FOH Board will set annual objectives, based on the direction set by the FOH membership at its AGM, but it will not (I hope) involve itself in the day to day running of the football club. That is a matter for the club board and the club board alone. We do not want either board attempting to influence team selection ( a la Romanov) because that is a matter for the manager. The governance must ensure there is total separation between the roles of the two boards and that those appointed to each board are appointed on the basis of ability and merit. I think all of the above is essential. Pretty much agree with all that. But it remains an aspiration not a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Clancy Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Pretty much agree with all that. But it remains an aspiration not a fact. I think I said that in my subsequent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I think I said that in my subsequent post. Not quite sure. You still made some assertions that aren't yet facts, But I think we are on the same hymn sheet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 If a new stand is built and funded before FoH take over I will be pleasantly surprised. Geoff - just watch how a proper business person goes about this issue. I won't be surprised at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 They have talked to the distillery re purchasing 10/15 yards or so at the rear of the Roseburn stand for that very reason. Last talks were in July and the distillery would like to help There are issues though re light and access especially as the bowling club are so close. There's no bowling club close enough to the ground to make any difference to any plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSTR Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 We'd need a stand that holds 3 or 4 thousand seats more than the Wheatfield for it to be worth it, unless we also redevelop all 3 new stands AND build a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Tiresias Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 The appeal and success of Tynecastle with it's stands close to the pitch, it's close proximity to the city centre and the local pubs is also the reason that I think we will eventually move to a location on or near the city bypass or airport. Clubs like St Johnstone make money and survive through their stadium being used every day for business meetings, conferences and the like. Their large car park and being a bye kick away from the A9 make access easy and is currently something we cannot offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudi Hates Hibees Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 The appeal and success of Tynecastle with it's stands close to the pitch, it's close proximity to the city centre and the local pubs is also the reason that I think we will eventually move to a location on or near the city bypass or airport. Clubs like St Johnstone make money and survive through their stadium being used every day for business meetings, conferences and the like. Their large car park and being a bye kick away from the A9 make access easy and is currently something we cannot offer. Let me get this right, everything that is good about Tynecastle, in your opinion, is the very reason we will relocate out of town?! That just doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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