siegementality Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The closure of public desks and local stations was going on long before Police Scotland was born, probably in preparation for centralisation right enough but it started happening years ago. The old L&B force centralised their call centre for minor crime reporting etc etc many years ago and stopped sending officers out to such calls. That's where the rot started to set in because local communities never saw a cop on the street for months at a time and the force became just a response force which was a massive loss in my opinion, nothing whatever to do with Police Scotland and the current issues though. on Wrong. It had everything to do with it. All the changes that took place in the old L & B latterly were all in preparation for the creation of Police Scotland. House played a blinder. While all the other forces were making changes and saving money in readiness for the new force he did feck all. That's why there is such an imbalance in the amount of resources in the west and the rest of the country, and the reason Edinburgh in particular has suffered in police officer numbers. House is a charlatan. He needs emptied ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The idea is sound. The implementation is a cluster feck of biblical proportions. A public service being run like a business buy a megalomaniac. I have many family and friends in the Police and you are 100% spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 MacAskill wasn't sacked for what amounted to a series of absolute failings under his watch as Justice Minister (failing out with the courts, alienating the legal profession, a dogs dinner on corroboration and a botched job on setting up Police Scotland), he left as part of Salmond's departure in which a few ministers also left on their own accord. He should've been sacked, but he was allowed to linger on through the referendum period and then allowed to depart the scene quietly. As for the resources of the force, offices and control centres, a lot of local knowledge from regional control centres have been lost. Staff in the Fire and Police services, back room staff who keep the ball rolling, had to apply in some cases for their own jobs as part of downsizing the force. Closing local desks in some stations also deteriorates the local and perosnable face of the force and alienates it from communities to a degree. But essentially on closed desks and other local facilities, it comes down to two things: 1 a centralisation of power away from local communities and 2 removing local and accessible resources for communities to access a public service easily in person and making it a remote service at the end of a phone. What good is that for folk? I notice that Macaskill is now helping to promote the H1b5 share issue. From one disaster to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollyWolly Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Wrong. It had everything to do with it. All the changes that took place in the old L & B latterly were all in preparation for the creation of Police Scotland. House played a blinder. While all the other forces were making changes and saving money in readiness for the new force he did feck all. That's why there is such an imbalance in the amount of resources in the west and the rest of the country, and the reason Edinburgh in particular has suffered in police officer numbers. House is a charlatan. He needs emptied ASAP. They must have had a crystal ball. They centralised call handling around 13 years ago and the call centre where everything is handled now is almost 10 years old. The closed the public desks at the likes of Corstorphine and the West End around the same time. One national force had been kicked around the meeting rooms for years. It only became a live possibility and an eventuality when we got the devolved powers to finance the justice system that we have now. You are right though. House needs to go. His leadership has been a catastrophe from day 1 when he addressed the staff at the Edinburgh call centre and told them lots of jobs were going and to be prepared for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I notice that Macaskill is now helping to promote the H1b5 share issue. From one disaster to another. The guys a clown. Scotlands worst mass murderer released on compassionate grounds. Says it all . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollyWolly Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The guys a clown. Scotlands worst mass murderer released on compassionate grounds. Says it all . Unsafe conviction IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Unsafe conviction IMO It may well have been but thats for the courts to decide not politicians . He was convicted of scotlands worst ever mass murder by a court of law. Mcaskill released him on compassionate grounds a ridiculous decision which was shown to be groundless. Like i said a clown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronJambo Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The guys a clown. Scotlands worst mass murderer released on compassionate grounds. Says it all . Nonsense. Whitehall made that decision as part of an oil deal, Macaskill only done what he was told. Megrahi wasn't the man anyway, he was just a small offering from Lybia to make idiots think that justice had been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Nonsense. Whitehall made that decision as part of an oil deal, Macaskill only done what he was told. Megrahi wasn't the man anyway, he was just a small offering from Lybia to make idiots think that justice had been done. A very small cog in the wheel that made that happen. The main perpetrators are known and are not pursued because the real reasons for it are embarrassing for America. As for Macaskill, well he has been little short of a complete embarrassment to both Salmond and Sturgeon, everything he has touched has turned to shit. Police Scotland is his enduring legacy - Ill thought out, badly led, and currently staffed by folk whose morale is at rock bottom. The sooner the mistake is admitted and this ill conceived abortion is split into three autonomous forces the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Macaskill wanted a legacy - as a humanitarian. A false situation releasing Megrahi ( even though I don't think he was directly responsible for Lockerbie) He wanted centre stage internationally Police Scotland is a mess and needs someone to step in and remove House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 A very small cog in the wheel that made that happen. The main perpetrators are known and are not pursued because the real reasons for it are embarrassing for America. More on this, please (separate thread if need be...or PM) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiewave Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Macaskill wanted a legacy - as a humanitarian. A false situation releasing Megrahi ( even though I don't think he was directly responsible for Lockerbie) He wanted centre stage internationally Police Scotland is a mess and needs someone to step in and remove House This is so often the problem: it's narcissism. Wanting a "legacy", desperate to be international news, etc.: narcissism. In Spain nobody gave a shite except on the day of the referendum when it attracted their attention in the way a government minister resigning or a small earthquake in China would ours: for five minutes then forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Macaskill's only legacy is that he went from being caught urinating in the street/or in a tenement doorway to becoming Scotland's Justice Minister! He made a mess of the street/tenement and he made a mess of Scotish Justice over corroboration / armed police/stop and search and Police Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Macaskill's only legacy is that he went from being caught urinating in the street/or in a tenement doorway to becoming Scotland's Justice Minister! He made a mess of the street/tenement and he made a mess of Scotish Justice over corroboration / armed police/stop and search and Police Scotland. No comparison. He'd have had to have done a number 2 and smeared it all over the tenement walls, to compare with what Police Scotland is now. The sooner Sturgeon fires Mr House the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcap Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The reaction from the American government over the release says it all. They produced a few sound bites for the victim's families and then quickly swept it under the carpet. They could have gotten massive brownie points from the American public over it, yet let it slide.Quite bizarre behaviour if they truly meant what they said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The reaction from the American government over the release says it all. They produced a few sound bites for the victim's families and then quickly swept it under the carpet. They could have gotten massive brownie points from the American public over it, yet let it slide. Quite bizarre behaviour if they truly meant what they said. His appeal would have done more damage, than his realise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 More on this, please (separate thread if need be...or PM) Quite simply, many people involved with this incident are firmly of the opinion that the Iranians were the prime movers in that incident as a direct response for the USS Vincennes shooting down the Iranian Airways Airbus. The Iranians used client intelligence agencies including the Lybians to do their dirty work. Magrahi was no doubt involved in this in some way, but he was far from being one of the prime movers. It's always been far more palatable for the U.S. Authorities to blame Lybians for Lockerbie, than admit that it may have been a response to their own act of folly. Most Americans are hardly aware of the USS Vincennes incident, and the US Government prefers things to remain that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GforGallo Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 There is a byelaw stating that it is an offence to refuse to stop drinking when asked to do so by a police officer in certain designated areas. http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk//download/downloads/id/1308/byelaws_prohibiting_consumption_of_alcohol_in_designated_public_places The only areas I could find that are under this designation are Bristo square, Hunter square, Nicholson square and parts of Porty beach. http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/179/council_and_police_use_the_power_of_the_bye-law_to_discourage_anti-social_drinking I think there is a law about using containers from licensed premises but if it was a can/bottle and you weren't causing a nuisance, there is no legal reason for them to ask you to stop. Interesting, thanks for that. It appears we were doing nothing wrong and were not in any of the places mentioned. We gave the police our drinks happily as it wasn't a big deal and I couldn't be bothered with an argument, but I'm glad to know I was in the right. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiewave Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Libya. Not Lybia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Nonsense. Whitehall made that decision as part of an oil deal, Macaskill only done what he was told. Megrahi wasn't the man anyway, he was just a small offering from Lybia to make idiots think that justice had been done. There was one man and one man only who could overide a court of appeal. I agree why megrahi was released and theres a lot i or anyone will ever know. Bottom line its a dangerous precedent to set especially considering the gravity of the offence. So while you may tell me its nonsense he no matter what pressure was brought to bear had a responsibility to the office which he was elected. He released Scotlands worst mass murderer . Thats fact not nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Quite simply, many people involved with this incident are firmly of the opinion that the Iranians were the prime movers in that incident as a direct response for the USS Vincennes shooting down the Iranian Airways Airbus. The Iranians used client intelligence agencies including the Lybians to do their dirty work. Magrahi was no doubt involved in this in some way, but he was far from being one of the prime movers. It's always been far more palatable for the U.S. Authorities to blame Lybians for Lockerbie, than admit that it may have been a response to their own act of folly. Most Americans are hardly aware of the USS Vincennes incident, and the US Government prefers things to remain that way. It also suited the government's of the time . It allowed them to reign in gadaffi . Theres moves made by american interests that may seem like terror at others hands. Dont forget and this is fact that america was desperate to be involved in ww2. The American public were not. It was discussed at high levels and the bombing of pearl harbour was suggested as a way of entering the war. It happened anyway. But its a tactic that has and is deployed to galvanise public opinion. It makes you wonder . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Interesting, thanks for that. It appears we were doing nothing wrong and were not in any of the places mentioned. We gave the police our drinks happily as it wasn't a big deal and I couldn't be bothered with an argument, but I'm glad to know I was in the right. Thanks again. Also interesting reading. My mate was given a warning for having a drink in White Park before the Rangers game as they claimed it was now an offence to drink in public in Edinburgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronJambo Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 There was one man and one man only who could overide a court of appeal. I agree why megrahi was released and theres a lot i or anyone will ever know. Bottom line its a dangerous precedent to set especially considering the gravity of the offence. So while you may tell me its nonsense he no matter what pressure was brought to bear had a responsibility to the office which he was elected. He released Scotlands worst mass murderer . Thats fact not nonsense. There's no doubt that only one man could give the actual decision the green light. I'm just saying that there was a gun at his head and he really isn't to blame. He was made to look like the clown behind it, when he was just the monkey doing what he was told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I've heard that House has one of those "Super-injunctions" to prevent his private life being discussed. Does anyone know if this is correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I've heard that House has one of those "Super-injunctions" to prevent his private life being discussed. Does anyone know if this is correct?Apparently so. No idea what he could possibly have to hide though. The big sodjer. [emoji6] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 There's no doubt that only one man could give the actual decision the green light. I'm just saying that there was a gun at his head and he really isn't to blame. He was made to look like the clown behind it, when he was just the monkey doing what he was told. I agree with you . Entirely. Thats why he wasn't fit for office. We may be a small country but imo doesn't mean we or the people we elect should not stand strong. But i accept he must have been under pressure that i will never experience. So i guess ive been harsh on him. At least hes a hibee so i dont feel so guilty. Does make you wonder what lengths the powers at be will go to . And how they may manufacture situations and acts to meet their agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I've heard that House has one of those "Super-injunctions" to prevent his private life being discussed. Does anyone know if this is correct? If true, I find it outrageous that a public servant, with control over the policing resources of Scotland, has something to hid of such significance that he requires to have a super injunction in place. Given his role that is surely unacceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 If true, I find it outrageous that a public servant, with control over the policing resources of Scotland, has something to hid of such significance that he requires to have a super injunction in place. Given his role that is surely unacceptable? If you google it there is a piece about him but I don't think that was what led to a injunction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 If you google it there is a piece about him but I don't think that was what led to a injunction. Do you have a link? When googled he gets as many articles returned as god!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argyjambo Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I've heard that House has one of those "Super-injunctions" to prevent his private life being discussed. Does anyone know if this is correct? I,ve heard rumours about his private life too, but was unaware of the "Super Injunction". Heard another regarding our last & unlamented 1st minister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I,ve heard rumours about his private life Spill the beans, after all it's only a rumour lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronJambo Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I agree with you . Entirely. Thats why he wasn't fit for office. We may be a small country but imo doesn't mean we or the people we elect should not stand strong. But i accept he must have been under pressure that i will never experience. So i guess ive been harsh on him. At least hes a hibee so i dont feel so guilty. Does make you wonder what lengths the powers at be will go to . And how they may manufacture situations and acts to meet their agenda. Entirely. I do think the same thing would've happened no matter who was in office although it may have been executed more subtley by someone else. I'm pretty sure it was for "the good of the UK" in Whitehall's eyes and if Holyrood weren't in agreeance I wouldn't be surprised if there was blackmail involved. In any case, a resignation should've followed that decision a few weeks later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Do you have a link? When googled he gets as many articles returned as god!!! http://themurdochempireanditsnestofvipers.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/leveson-strathclyde-police-corruption.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 Sounds like Police Scotland need to get their House in order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 http://themurdochempireanditsnestofvipers.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/leveson-strathclyde-police-corruption.html Interesting read but as you say doubt any 'alleged' super injunction has anything to with that. Most people of his character have skeletons in their closet, the skeletons are all a part of getting where they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 A criminal defence lawyer that I know told me to keep an eye out for a huge story involving the top man at Police Scotland. Just need to wait and see, I suppose. That aside, I think it's a shite idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argyjambo Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Spill the beans, after all it's only a rumour lol I said I heard the rumours....didn't mean I'm willing to spread the rumours. I hear lots of things & mostly keep my own counsel, as I have no idea if said rumours are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I said I heard the rumours....didn't mean I'm willing to spread the rumours. I hear lots of things & mostly keep my own counsel, as I have no idea if said rumours are true. Well that's nae guid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiewave Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 If true, I find it outrageous that a public servant, with control over the policing resources of Scotland, has something to hid of such significance that he requires to have a super injunction in place. Given his role that is surely unacceptable? It depends what it is. If it's that he has been unfaithful to his wife, for example, that's none of anybody's business and need not affect his work. But he still might not want it shared with the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Entirely. I do think the same thing would've happened no matter who was in office although it may have been executed more subtley by someone else. I'm pretty sure it was for "the good of the UK" in Whitehall's eyes and if Holyrood weren't in agreeance I wouldn't be surprised if there was blackmail involved. In any case, a resignation should've followed that decision a few weeks later. Mate its indicitive of the priority in world affairs.Policy is driven by profit. Wars are declared by corporate interests. Democracy is a farce. We are complicit by our votes in the Injustices . And although i voted yes its a joke considering snps stance on this and fracking. I for one give up buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 It depends what it is. If it's that he has been unfaithful to his wife, for example, that's none of anybody's business and need not affect his work. But he still might not want it shared with the world. Hypothetically speaking , would it make a difference if the person he was unfaithful with was in the Police and has has had nice promotions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 I've heard that House has one of those "Super-injunctions" to prevent his private life being discussed. Does anyone know if this is correct? As shown by the Giggs/Sunday Herald affair, such injunctions have no binding effect in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 As for MacAskill/Megrahi, if the Justice Secretary had been under pressure from America and Whitehall then he'd have shown more compassion and integrity by keeping him locked up. There was an appeal on the conviction with a lot of new evidence and material to be employed to show Megrahi was only a bit part player. The failure to have this appeal by releasing him meant the evidence can't be made public or disclosed. In effect, the truth won't cone out because MacAskill appealed to a higher power for guidance and let him go. The speech made on his release was incredibly glib, self righteous and arrogant in the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 As shown by the Giggs/Sunday Herald affair, such injunctions have no binding effect in Scotland. It would appear Gigg's legal team didn't seek a gagging order through the Scottish courts. If they had The Sunday Herald couldn't have named him. Maybe other peoples legal teams have learnt from that mistake. http://m.heraldscotland.com/opinion/herald_view/13052696.Defending_the_Scots_legal_system/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 It would appear Gigg's legal team didn't seek a gagging order through the Scottish courts. If they had The Sunday Herald couldn't have named him. Maybe other peoples legal teams have learnt from that mistake. http://m.heraldscotland.com/opinion/herald_view/13052696.Defending_the_Scots_legal_system/ No doubt they have. The fact the head of the second largest force in the UK after the Met is so aloof and unaccountable is shocking. Rather than a chief with executive power surely it should be a board or commission running it with a chief who has to act on the approval of the board with policy changes voted on by the board. All decisions should then be reviewed by a special Police Committee in Holyrood. The Chief and a ridiculously weak SPA which is effectively a powerless quango with all the mistakes we've seen is no longer tenable. I'd have a lot of time for Sturgeon and Matheson if reforms were planned and they admitted errors. This blind faith in the force is mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 No doubt they have. The fact the head of the second largest force in the UK after the Met is so aloof and unaccountable is shocking. Rather than a chief with executive power surely it should be a board or commission running it with a chief who has to act on the approval of the board with policy changes voted on by the board. All decisions should then be reviewed by a special Police Committee in Holyrood. The Chief and a ridiculously weak SPA which is effectively a powerless quango with all the mistakes we've seen is no longer tenable. I'd have a lot of time for Sturgeon and Matheson if reforms were planned and they admitted errors. This blind faith in the force is mad. The blind faith in House is mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 Stress leads to 53,000 absence days over a 2 year period http://news.stv.tv/scotland/1324930-police-stress-leads-to-53000-absence-days-over-two-year-period/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Stress leads to 53,000 absence days over a 2 year period http://news.stv.tv/scotland/1324930-police-stress-leads-to-53000-absence-days-over-two-year-period/ Telt yees lazy typical govt workers Stress pah!!!! Wonder what the sick days of traffic wardens are who i bet take far more abuse. Bet you a pound to the penny there would be not nearly as much if like the rest of us they didnt get full pay etc. Im not anti police. But if you join a service that deals with the dribs and the drabs and you are not aware then do not join. Whats the sick days taken by armed forces theyre left to rot Even if you are a corrupt officer you get a full pension. Oh and another thing if you decide not to cough up for your kids they are the hardest employer to deal with by the csa. Fact. Time the fat lazy unfit cops who abuse sick pay were emptied. They shame the guys who work hard for the community and join for all the right reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 And i bet match day stewards take more abuse. No sick pay for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertracoon Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 And i bet match day stewards take more abuse. No sick pay for them. I bet you they don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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