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Paulie Walnut

Stadium Update - council APPROVES plan for new stand!

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Guest C00l K1d

Could the horizontal section not be extended, then the leg sections dropping down behind the newly filled in corners nah?

 

Obviously a bit of a space issue there mind.

 

Edit: In fact it's not even the need for a complete new stadium. Is the reason we need to redevelop not because the main stand is falling to pieces. Filling in the corners wouldn't solve that issue.

Edited by C00l K1d

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luckyBatistuta

Don't think that's right to be fair. Was more the buildings were sold off in bulk as that was more straightforward.

 

 

So does anybody have any idea who owns it?

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Jambo, Goodbye

If the new stands are designed to be rebuildable we could demolish the main and move the wheatfield across.

Don't know if that would even help the situation :lol:

We could form a triangle

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Tommy Brown

They're not lighting pylons, they support the three new stands, they just happen to have the lights on them.

They only support the roofs.

Just remove the roofs I say, most grounds abroad don't have roofs.

Am I doing this right?

 

FWIW, The first sentence is correct, but the cost to to remove them to fill in corners is not feasible for it's projectd return.

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Martin_T

Empty seats create more empty seats, see Hibs by way of example. There is little evidence that Hearts average crowd will ever range above 12-17,000. The current Tynecastle is about optimal capacity for a club of our size.

 

A new main stand would be nice, but filling in corners etc is not really necessary.

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Buffalo Bill

The main three problems are costs, planning and a lack of space.

 

 

From a business point of view, moving to a new stadium somewhere out west and sharing it with the council and Edinburgh Rugby is the most viable. But I hope that doesn't happen (besides, I think the best bit of land left inside the bypass has now got the tramline running right through it - see Lochside Way).

 

 

The lack of space problem could possibly be addressed by building a two tier stand 'skywards' on the current footprint, but that would still limit capacity and we would seriously have to grease the council in terms of planning, but I think we could get a new stand in there. The problem then is 'does the new stand/capacity justify the cost?' I think it would look something like the stand behind the goals at Loftus Road. Capacity would probably remain short of 20,000.

 

 

The most ideal way (for most of us) would be to try and gain control of the McLeod St buildings and build back, as well as up, but that would require most trouble with the planners/council/nursery, plus it would rocket the cost up to way over ?10M I imagine. But the upshot would be a 23,000 capacity stadium, which is perfect for us.

 

 

It's a real conundrum, but Ann will figure something out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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portobellojambo1

So does anybody have any idea who owns it?

 

 

The bank buildings were purchased by a property developers called the Chris Stewart Group and as it was sold as a job lot I'd imagine they still have it unless it has been sold on again.

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LarrysRightFoot

On the topic of capacity I think 22k should be the max we aim for. IMO 20k would be perfect.

 

Obviously the initial outlay will be expensive but if we have to get a sponsor on board and the stadium be called the Flybe (for example) arena for 10 years so be it - we will still call it Tynecastle (and it always will be Tynecastle).

 

Also a ?20k stadium with proper corporate facilitates will eventually start paying for itself - the current main stand as much as we love it costs money every year.

 

A stadium this size would also allow us to compete with ER for internationals, semi-finals, Petrofact finals etc - which again will provide income.

Edited by LarrysRightFoot

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Chaps

What is the building be used for now?

 

I seem to remember we done a bit of work inside the place for the media etc when we played Spurs or Liverpool in the Europa League.

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Jingle Bells

Just my thoughts but If the NBD are still willing to sell their end warehouse to the club, decent facilities could be bolted/built onto the back of the Wheatfield making it the clubs new main stand. The roof could also then be raised allowing for corporate boxes ,corners filled in etc. The NBD might be interested in naming rights for the stand plus some perks.  The current roofing is less than useless, when it buckets, anyway if you are seated in the lower tiers.

If necessary the old main stand could then be replaced by standing terracing (if allowed) until there is enough funds to build a complete new stand, if that is what is desired.

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Abbey Craig

What ever plans are decided upon, finance is key. Even a basic new main stand would cost multiple millions and where would that money come from? Interest payments alone could be crippling as we are not the best lending risk. The only way I can see this being done is by continuing with FOE after we have paid off Ann. In effect, paying cash and saving that kind of lump sum will take years.

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SUTOL

With reference to filling in the corners, one option not discussed is: 

 

Rather than 'filling in' by putting seats in to form a rounded corner and the issues that would cause due to the supports. Would it not be possible to 'build' in two or three floor hospitality suites/boxes with windows out onto the pitch possibly complete with balcony. 

Similar to the police control room, with another couple the same on top of it. 

 

 

The structure of the buildings would replace the pillars that support the roof, extra corporate income, wouldn't affect other development of main stand. 

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Jambof3tornado

With reference to filling in the corners, one option not discussed is:

 

Rather than 'filling in' by putting seats in to form a rounded corner and the issues that would cause due to the supports. Would it not be possible to 'build' in two or three floor hospitality suites/boxes with windows out onto the pitch possibly complete with balcony.

Similar to the police control room, with another couple the same on top of it.

 

 

The structure of the buildings would replace the pillars that support the roof, extra corporate income, wouldn't affect other development of main stand.

Sounds like a plan. Bound to be reasons its not possible but it would look cool as !

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SUTOL

Sounds like a plan. Bound to be reasons its not possible but it would look cool as ***!

 

Cash?

 

Or just not been considered, yet.          :wink:

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farin

 

If I remember right, sevco filled in the corners of their stands after a few years in operation. Obviously the design might have been different from our present one etc.

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hmfc22

Certainly, the club needs a stadium capable of supporting our ambitions.

 

The club has been suffocated by lack of capacity and hospitality facilities. We have consequently lost out on an enormous amount of income and we have been unable to attract new fans to grow the club.

 

Would obviously prefer to stay at Tynecastle but would be fully behind moving to a new stadium if it was the best option for the club.

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SUTOL

If I remember right, sevco filled in the corners of their stands after a few years in operation. Obviously the design might have been different from our present one etc.

 

Ibrox has cantilevered stands. 

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Ray Gin

With reference to filling in the corners, one option not discussed is:

 

Rather than 'filling in' by putting seats in to form a rounded corner and the issues that would cause due to the supports. Would it not be possible to 'build' in two or three floor hospitality suites/boxes with windows out onto the pitch possibly complete with balcony.

Similar to the police control room, with another couple the same on top of it.

 

 

The structure of the buildings would replace the pillars that support the roof, extra corporate income, wouldn't affect other development of main stand.

The windows wouldn't give a full view of the pitch as they'd be facing along the stands.

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Apache Mal

The only way I can see this being done is by continuing with FOE after we have paid off Ann. In effect, paying cash and saving that kind of lump sum will take years.

Why do some folk not realise that contributions have to continue once FoH have bought the club?

 

It is the responsibility of the club owners ie the fans to keep funding the club. Also, no contribution means no vote on how the club is run.

 

Or am I not getting it? Should I be cancelling my contributions once Ann transfers ownership?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by Apache Mal

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SUTOL

The windows wouldn't give a full view of the pitch as they'd be facing along the stands.

 

They would give a full view of the pitch, just as the one in the police control room does. 

Edited by SUTOL

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WSTR

Can we get the guy who made the tynecastle cake to redesign the stadium?

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Australis......

Empty seats create more empty seats, see Hibs by way of example. There is little evidence that Hearts average crowd will ever range above 12-17,000. The current Tynecastle is about optimal capacity for a club of our size.

 

A new main stand would be nice, but filling in corners etc is not really necessary.

 

I think we are near our capacity too.

A new stand, might be a big empty stand, it would be depressing like the wee team walking out each week to a stadium that is not even half full.

A giant empty skip so to speak..

 

We have to be realistic and not build something, that when we have bad seasons and like every club we will, we lose fans and atmosphere.

Tynecastle is near capacity IMO, with all the other entertainments that have taken supporters away from most clubs in the modern era.

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Ozturkflukes

New stand with a fan bar inside charge fans a membership fee for the season around the ?10 per month TV screens showing live games before our kick off open the bar when hearts are away and games on TV keep gorgie suite for hospitality ect but the average joe has a decent place to go before games. Doesn't villa have that idea I may be mistaken.

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FarmerTweedy

 

I love the way the roofs of the three existing 'newer' stands just magically hang in the air in that first picture after having had their main means of support removed. That would be totally doable, we just need to consult Archchancellor Ridcully, I'm sure he'd sort it out for us!

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DETTY29

I'm not convinced we need to increase our capacity by that much.

 

It's all about getting more corporate and function/business suites in, making the facilities better (apart from the away dressing room) and finding a car parking solution to meet needs of more corporate / business activities.

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FarmerTweedy

Can't just knock the main stand down and build a new one on top, the footprint is too small. New planning guidelines, stadia design, health and safety etc have put paid to that idea. A new main stand would involve building much closer to McLeod Street and purchasing land, the ticket office etc.

We're looking at a cost of up to ?20 million or even as much as ?25 million dependant on material costs, cpo's, inflation etc, etc...

I saw a design a long time ago that allowed for a car park underneath a new stand... parking and infrastructure would be a real issue.

All that extra cost and we'd only have a stadium of around 22k. Enough for purpose maybe, but where is the finance coming from?!

AB is right to look at ground improvements short term but the long term can't be at Tynecastle if looked at from a cost point of view, or do we miss our huge debt?!

 

I agree with what you say about costs, but it's worth bearing in mind that moving and building a completely new stadium will cost money too!

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Haken

The question I would ask is what is the driver for redevelopment? 'Greater capacity' will probably be on the list, but I doubt it will be top 3. As another poster has pointed out, our existing capacity seems to be about right. That said, new and improved modern facilities might attract a few more to games. I'd guess that improvements will be more about improving the experience and maximising corporate side investments. If, at the same time, the capacity could be increased to around 20k, fine.

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CollyWolly

It is possible, apparently, to convert the Wheatfield into the 'main stand' There is room underneath for offices, bars and changing rooms and there is already a template of a players tunnel there, if you look carefully you will see where it would be cut out. If this can still be done (it was certainly possible when the Wheatfield was built)it would mean they could build a more modest stand opposite, slightly increasing the capacity. I am like others and don't see the real need to increase the capacity dramatically. Upgrading the facility as a whole is far more important.

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Heartsfc_1874

Can anyone post /erect a photo of Tynecastle with corners filled in ???

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August Landmesser

With reference to filling in the corners, one option not discussed is: 

 

Rather than 'filling in' by putting seats in to form a rounded corner and the issues that would cause due to the supports. Would it not be possible to 'build' in two or three floor hospitality suites/boxes with windows out onto the pitch possibly complete with balcony. 

Similar to the police control room, with another couple the same on top of it. 

 

 

The structure of the buildings would replace the pillars that support the roof, extra corporate income, wouldn't affect other development of main stand. 

http://www.stadiumguide.com/wp-content/gallery/luigiferraris/luigiferraris2.JPG

 

Something like this would be tremendous, without the 'You'll Never Walk Alone' banner obvs.

 

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Allowayjambo1874

It is possible, apparently, to convert the Wheatfield into the 'main stand' There is room underneath for offices, bars and changing rooms and there is already a template of a players tunnel there, if you look carefully you will see where it would be cut out. If this can still be done (it was certainly possible when the Wheatfield was built)it would mean they could build a more modest stand opposite, slightly increasing the capacity. I am like others and don't see the real need to increase the capacity dramatically. Upgrading the facility as a whole is far more important.

 

Never heard this option muted before and it makes a lot of sense financially.

 

Just two minor points come to mind, do you not proper road access to a stand where dressing rooms etc are and think the perfect situation re hospitality/functions are rooms with picture windows that look out onto pitch.

 

However think this is a good idea if doable.

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Craig_

With reference to filling in the corners, one option not discussed is: 

 

Rather than 'filling in' by putting seats in to form a rounded corner and the issues that would cause due to the supports. Would it not be possible to 'build' in two or three floor hospitality suites/boxes with windows out onto the pitch possibly complete with balcony. 

Similar to the police control room, with another couple the same on top of it. 

 

 

The structure of the buildings would replace the pillars that support the roof, extra corporate income, wouldn't affect other development of main stand. 

 

Something like the Stadium Luigi Ferraris?

 

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyo377Jsox1r5mz16.jpg

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TheMaganator

I like being able to see the castle & Edinburgh skyline from my seat in the Wheatfield.

 

I hope that view is kept, if possible.

 

A new, modest main stand and tarting up of the Wheatfield to make it the new main would suit me.

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Thomaso

Haven't read all the posts but some are way off the mark on what can be done economically or structurally with regards to a new main stand.

 

One of my pals is a Hearts supporting Architect and the subject has come up often.  He reckons there is no chance that they will dismantle roofs or alter the structural steelwork on the 3 'new' stands.

 

The stadium construction is basically steelwork towers at the 4 corners that support the steel spanning across the roof front edges - these will remain.

 

If we do build a new main stand they will install the same type of steelwork spanning from the existing corner towers to support the new roof. The stadium roof will be at the same height all round, however if we can acquire all the land at the rear they can built the stand at a less steep angle and go further back creating more seats.

 

This seems the sensible and economic option to me.

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Jingle Bells

Haven't read all the posts but some are way off the mark on what can be done economically or structurally with regards to a new main stand.

 

One of my pals is a Hearts supporting Architect and the subject has come up often.  He reckons there is no chance that they will dismantle roofs or alter the structural steelwork on the 3 'new' stands.

 

The stadium construction is basically steelwork towers at the 4 corners that support the steel spanning across the roof front edges - these will remain.

 

If we do build a new main stand they will install the same type of steelwork spanning from the existing corner towers to support the new roof. The stadium roof will be at the same height all round, however if we can acquire all the land at the rear they can built the stand at a less steep angle and go further back creating more seats.

 

This seems the sensible and economic option to me.

 

In which case why has Budge mentioned that crowd capacity would be reduced to 3,000 during redevelopment/ temp' move to Murrayfield etc.if it goes ahead?

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CollyWolly

Never heard this option muted before and it makes a lot of sense financially.

 

Just two minor points come to mind, do you not proper road access to a stand where dressing rooms etc are and think the perfect situation re hospitality/functions are rooms with picture windows that look out onto pitch.

 

However think this is a good idea if doable.

There is a coach park and a football pitch out the back which I believe we own which could be converted into office and parking space. As far as corporate boxes in the Wheatfield are concerned, I am not sure it would be practical as an add on but it could easily be purpose built into the plans for the opposite stand

 

As far as converting the stands from strut support to cantilever support and freeing up the corners, I believe it has been done both at Old Trafford and at Hillsborough in relatively recent years. Another option might be to partially support the stand roofs with a Wembley type arc across the length of the pitch, although we would probably run out of room at either end. problem is, filling in the corners makes the stadium look better, but it adds hardly anything to seating capacity, probably no more than 600 in the two corners we could do it with at present.Not very cost effective.

Edited by CollyWolly

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GJamboR7

Can't we just reach an agreement with the school for car parking?

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Fort Vallance

I haven't read the whole thread. However I do remember that when the three new stands were built, the architect, Jim Clydesdale I think, suggested that the design was done to allow an increase in capacity in the future. I might be wrong but it might have been another tier on the Wheatfield. Obviously doesn't address the issue with the crumbling main stand.

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SUTOL

Can't we just reach an agreement with the school for car parking?

 

The school doesn't have much parking and they may need it themselves for other things on at the school.

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Chaps

The school doesn't have much parking and they may need it themselves for other things on at the school.

Council are trying to sell it off.

 

Another expense added and probably can't afford to demolish the school then use it for extra parking space.

Edited by Chaps

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Ray has bus pass hooray

Council are trying to sell it off.

 

Another expense added and probably can't afford to demolish the school then use it for extra parking space.

i think old tynie school is also a listed building

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SUTOL

Council are trying to sell it off.

 

Another expense added and probably can't afford to demolish the school then use it for extra parking space.

 

Presumably you are talking about the old Tynie High School car park. 

 

Did NB distilleries not take it over and we use the car park on match days? 

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North Berwick Jambo

Filling in the corners wouldn't add that many seats compared to the cost. I don't see why a much taller new main stand in roughly the same footprint can't be built, that takes the capacity up a good few thousand, job done ;)

Edited by North Berwick Jambo

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Cade

Removing the corner supports is not just about increasing crowd capacity, it's about easier access to the pitch for equipment ect. I believe this was why section N lower was removed a few years ago.

 

In the post-season part of the year the stadium should be used for concerts and other events to keep income rolling in. The cabbage have made good use of this in the past and it's something we need to be looking at.

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Thomaso

In which case why has Budge mentioned that crowd capacity would be reduced to 3,000 during redevelopment/ temp' move to Murrayfield etc.if it goes ahead?

 

When did she say that? I must have missed it.

 

As there will have no changing rooms, etc, when a new stand is being built (with no room for temporary accommodation on a tight site) I would have thought that we would have to move to Murrayfield.

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Thomaso

I haven't read the whole thread. However I do remember that when the three new stands were built, the architect, Jim Clydesdale I think, suggested that the design was done to allow an increase in capacity in the future. I might be wrong but it might have been another tier on the Wheatfield. Obviously doesn't address the issue with the crumbling main stand.

 

I do not believe this was the case.  To add another tier to the Wheatfield would need huge re-design of the existing corner and spanning steel trusses.

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CBjambo

I agree with what you say about costs, but it's worth bearing in mind that moving and building a completely new stadium will cost money too!

Yes, but any move to a new ground would involve a partnership with the council or maybe Edinburgh rugby too?!

 

IMO obviously.

 

A community club would build a ground that has multiple uses and venues built in; on a green/brown field site. That would mean much more revenue streams out with match day.

 

Again all IMO but there are plenty of templates out there to follow. It seems logical the way the club are gearing up for the future.

 

If we stay at Tynecastle we're going it alone and the limitations are obvious.

Edited by CBjambo

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Fort Vallance

I do not believe this was the case.  To add another tier to the Wheatfield would need huge re-design of the existing corner and spanning steel trusses.

You might well be correct. However there was definately a provision put in place for increasing the attendance by further development of the three stands.

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