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Major plane crash in the French Alps


Tazio

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Doesn't sound good :( French president saying it's unlikely there will be any survivors.

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Horrible.  Worrying also that it's a fairly modern airliner and a European airline that are involved.  

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Miles off route straight from take off- weird

 

Is it? Considering the position of Barcelona and Dusseldorf it looks like the expected flight path to me.

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Is it? Considering the position of Barcelona and Dusseldorf it looks like the expected flight path to me.

 

The graphic that was on the BBC site had a dotted straight line between Barcelona and Dusseldorf, of course flight paths aren't straight. It also had a curved line from Barcelona to the crash site so it looked as if the plane had headed east of where it should have been.

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wreckage at 6000ft.  Gonna be one hell of a salvage operation.  Tragic.  

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loveofthegame

Pics i've seen make it look on flight path. 24 year old plane though sounds pretty old?! How long is the usual lifespan of a modern airliner?!

 

I've flown Germanwings before, just a pretty standard lowcost airline. They fly from Edinburgh to Cologne.

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The graphic that was on the BBC site had a dotted straight line between Barcelona and Dusseldorf, of course flight paths aren't straight. It also had a curved line from Barcelona to the crash site so it looked as if the plane had headed east of where it should have been.

 

The expert they had on the News Channel said it was on its flight path.

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The expert they had on the News Channel said it was on its flight path.

 

What I meant was that the BBC graphic was misleading. 

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Malcolm Tucker

Didn't make an emergency call until it had already dropped from 37'000ft to 6800ft.

 

Tragic stuff, 150 people on board.

 

:(

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Better call Saul

I know they say that flying is the safest mode of transport but when something like this happens it takes so many lives  ...poor buggers

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Off on a tangent (and it might be for another thread) but I cant be only one raising eyebrows at the coverage just now? BBC getting the weatherman in - fair enough. Asking the same question, over and over again?

 

Expert on. Totally unsolicited viewpoint that it looks like terrorism. Repeated it three or four times, though tries to qualify it with 'well it could be anything'. Folk will already be panicking enough and he comes out with that, and not even picked up by the newsreaders.

 

Off to Spain to hear what their PM says - no translator. Brilliant. I would like to hear what he has to say.

 

Before anyone says 'change the channel', its not been much better. Can we not just stick to what is known, which is not very much, then report facts as they come in?

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Pics i've seen make it look on flight path. 24 year old plane though sounds pretty old?! How long is the usual lifespan of a modern airliner?!

 

I've flown Germanwings before, just a pretty standard lowcost airline. They fly from Edinburgh to Cologne.

 

Was the actual plane 24 years old or is the model 24 years old?  The first A320 flew in the late 80's but they still produce them to this day.  I would say it would be fairly modern, no more than ten years old.  Although 24 years is quite old.  Life span just depends really.  There are loads of airliners under 20 years old that have been scrapped.  Yes there are still planes that are around 30 years old that are still flying.  

 

European airlines, even low cost carriers, have excellent safety records which makes crashes like this quite rare in Europe.  Could be pilot error as opposed a fault with the aircraft, however Airbus planes are mostly flown by computer.  You punch in all the details and the plane does it all for you.  

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Was the actual plane 24 years old or is the model 24 years old?  The first A320 flew in the late 80's but they still produce them to this day.  I would say it would be fairly modern, no more than ten years old.  Although 24 years is quite old.  Life span just depends really.  There are loads of airliners under 20 years old that have been scrapped.  Yes there are still planes that are around 30 years old that are still flying.  

 

European airlines, even low cost carriers, have excellent safety records which makes crashes like this quite rare in Europe.  Could be pilot error as opposed a fault with the aircraft, however Airbus planes are mostly flown by computer.  You punch in all the details and the plane does it all for you.  

 

News channels have said that the plane was 24 years old but was in excellent working condition. Apparently thats 'typical' of such a model.

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News channels have said that the plane was 24 years old but was in excellent working condition. Apparently thats 'typical' of such a model.

 

They were ahead of their time with the fly-by-wire stuff back in the late 80's but that is quite old.  I would imagine it has been well looked after though.  

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9580fffc-b87d-405b-bf6c-8538bb42999c_800

 

"This, from @planefinder, appears to show aircraft circling a localised area around the crash site in the southern French Alps"

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Was on the same type of aircraft last week with Easyjet. Sitting looking out of the window thinking what if. Tradgety for all concerned and connected with the dead, horrible time and my sympathies go out to them.

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9580fffc-b87d-405b-bf6c-8538bb42999c_800

 

"This, from @planefinder, appears to show aircraft circling a localised area around the crash site in the southern French Alps"

Just looked at that also, it is a French C-135 Stratotanker - military. I suspect it is doing some searching/coordination. 

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I think it must have been something fairly immediate, as there were a couple of airports nearby where they could have carried out an emergency landing (Marseille for example)

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loveofthegame

I think it must have been something fairly immediate, as there were a couple of airports nearby where they could have carried out an emergency landing (Marseille for example)

 

That said, it apparently went down at a rate of 3-4000 feet a minute which is the normal rate for a landing aircraft, so it doesn't appear to have been a sudden and catastrophic failure, which seems very odd... The plane essentially just descended until it hit the first outcrop of land, which just so happened to be a mountainside in the French Alps...

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That said, it apparently went down at a rate of 3-4000 feet a minute which is the normal rate for a landing aircraft, so it doesn't appear to have been a sudden and catastrophic failure, which seems very odd... The plane essentially just descended until it hit the first outcrop of land, which just so happened to be a mountainside in the French Alps...

Complete speculation on my part but I think there has been several instances over the years of similar happening where the pilots put the wrong commands into the fly-by-wire computer and similar happened. Although, very surprised why this wasn't noticed in a timely manner by the pilots! 

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2 babies on board. 15 teenagers returning from a school trip.

 

Just horrific.

 

Wonder if it could be the ice sensors (which failed on another LH model causing a 4000ft drop in altitude not that long ago).

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loveofthegame

2 babies on board. 15 teenagers returning from a school trip.

 

Just horrific.

 

Wonder if it could be the ice sensors (which failed on another LH model causing a 4000ft drop in altitude not that long ago).

 

It didnt sound like bad weather so surely would have been picked up on by the pilot before they actually hit the mountain?!

 

Germanwings chief exec said there was an 8 minute descent. That really is not quick in "planes falling from the sky" terms... but also rumours that no distress signal sent?! I never understand these things!

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It didnt sound like bad weather so surely would have been picked up on by the pilot before they actually hit the mountain?!

 

Germanwings chief exec said there was an 8 minute descent. That really is not quick in "planes falling from the sky" terms... but also rumours that no distress signal sent?! I never understand these things!

 

So they didn't declare an emergency?  Sorry, I have only heard snippets on the news.  Possible , as mentioned before, that it's been caused by the computers and the pilots were unaware of it.  

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The Internet

Nah there was no distress call from the plane itself, air traffic control raised the alarm because they couldn't contact the crew.

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Yes, earlier reports said there had been a distress call from the aircraft but it seems it was ATC that declared an emergency.

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Off on a tangent (and it might be for another thread) but I cant be only one raising eyebrows at the coverage just now? BBC getting the weatherman in - fair enough. Asking the same question, over and over again?

 

Expert on. Totally unsolicited viewpoint that it looks like terrorism. Repeated it three or four times, though tries to qualify it with 'well it could be anything'. Folk will already be panicking enough and he comes out with that, and not even picked up by the newsreaders.

 

Off to Spain to hear what their PM says - no translator. Brilliant. I would like to hear what he has to say.

 

Before anyone says 'change the channel', its not been much better. Can we not just stick to what is known, which is not very much, then report facts as they come in?

 

Was just saying the same thing to someone in my office. We've got Fox News on continuously in one of the kitchens over here, and they are now pushing a potential cause that back in 2006, an FAA Airworthiness Directive was issued for the pitot-static system on the Airbus A321 (not even the same plane, albeit a close relation). Although it was pretty funny listening to the anchor struggling to describe something vaguely technical as they are not exactly employed because of their intelligence, but the next part really annoyed me. The supposed 'expert' talking head then begins to say how, this could in fact be a cause, and that people should consider the safety of all Airbuses. Completely ignoring the fact that compliance with ADs is pretty much mandatory to ensure a problem gets fixed if you want to remain in operation. 

 

Scaremongering at it's very finest. 

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All roads lead to Gorgie

I have flown over the alps a few times and you are aware that you only have around 15.000ft clearance height if a decompression event happens and you need to descend quickly. Could be that and they have just misjudged the terrain. Such a dreadful shame!

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One black box found.

 

8 minute descent, no mayday call, 2 airports within easy reach, clear visibility - surely the pilots must have been knocked out by whatever happened?

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One black box found.

 

8 minute descent, no mayday call, 2 airports within easy reach, clear visibility - surely the pilots must have been knocked out by whatever happened?

 

Found already? Is that not a bit quick? :unsure:

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loveofthegame

Found already? Is that not a bit quick? :unsure:

 

Not if it is sitting right by the wreckage. Plane doesn't sound like it broke up until impact so would have been a very easy find. We've just started getting used to them struggling to find them as recent disasters have been over water making them extremely difficult to locate!

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Allowayjambo1874

One black box found.

 

8 minute descent, no mayday call, 2 airports within easy reach, clear visibility - surely the pilots must have been knocked out by whatever happened?

 

At 38000 over the Alps you can't just look out and see where airfields are, the pilots would need to be using there instruments or charts to find an airfield. The only other way they can find another airfield is to use Air Traffic who would give them range and bearings to nearest airfield or alternate if airfield could not take such a large aircraft.

 

Pilots aviate, navigate then communicate in the event of an emergency so they obviously try and fly the aircraft first before navigating then telling ATC. 

 

Losing 4000 feet a minute is recoverable, it's not like a nose dive you see in the movies also the flight was on its flight planned route (flights don't fly in a straight line between city to city)

 

The odd thing in this is why no turns and continued in a straight line into the Alps. Hypoxia (lack of Oxygen) in the cockpit may be a factor.

 

If there is depressurization the flight descends to 10000 feet asap and then levels off, there has been a suggestion that the flight tried to level off about this altitude before continuing the descent. May be catastrophic structural issue and/or possible crew error. 

 

The black box gives a signal out which the S&R crews will be able to zone in on within minutes of getting to the region, possibly the easiest thing to find on arriving at the scene, hence so quick to recover.

 

Finally the stratofighter circling overhead is a command & control aircraft providing primary radar coverage and control for rescue aircraft. 

 

Awful news, kids and babies on board. There by the grace of god...................

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All roads lead to Gorgie

Not sure if the press should be flying over the crash site so soon, seems very insensitive!

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Ron Burgundy

The last few moments must have been horrific. I can't even begin to imagine the horror felt by those on board. Tragic.

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I've just read the updated BBC report and this sentence is at the end of it.

 

The White House has said there is no evidence so far of a terror attack.

 

I'll tell you what White House, calm the paranoia for a minute, accidents still happen around the world, how about a statement saying " the people of America pass on their profound sympathy" as opposed to making it all about your sodding agenda and issues.

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If it was hypoxia, which was as a result of an error during the maintainace check yesterday, can you imagine what's going through the heads of the team responsible. Did I flick that switch back to auto? I did..... didn't I?

 

Horrible.

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I've just read the updated BBC report and this sentence is at the end of it.

 

The White House has said there is no evidence so far of a terror attack.

 

I'll tell you what White House, calm the paranoia for a minute, accidents still happen around the world, how about a statement saying " the people of America pass on their profound sympathy" as opposed to making it all about your sodding agenda and issues.

Thank feck for the whitehouse for reassuring us. That couldn't have been for the benefit of the American population as most of them probably don't know where Europe is let alone the Alps.
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The white house was reacting to some press reports saying it could be terrorism.

 

Alloway that was kinda my point, they were near both an international airport and a sizeable airfield which could have recieved it. There was no communication with air traffic control at all. Nothing reporting a problem. Not even a mayday call. If there had been a problem surely the pilots would have dialed in, unless the comms equipment broke.

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Jambof3tornado

If it was hypoxia, which was as a result of an error during the maintainace check yesterday, can you imagine what's going through the heads of the team responsible. Did I flick that switch back to auto? I did..... didn't I?

 

Horrible.

Thats why independent checks get carried out after certain maintenance tasks are carried out.
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Dusk_Till_Dawn

Eight minute descent! Just thinking about it is horrific.

But would anyone have realised? Wasn't it like a steady descent rather than the plane falling out the sky?

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All roads lead to Gorgie

But would anyone have realised? Wasn't it like a steady descent rather than the plane falling out the sky?

I think you would start a normal descent from 38 or whatever thousand feet about 25 minutes out from your destination, so to drop 30 odd thousand in eight minutes would be terrifying for the poor souls on the flight.

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CavySlaveJambo

The black box gives a signal out which the S&R crews will be able to zone in on within minutes of getting to the region, possibly the easiest thing to find on arriving at the scene, hence so quick to recover.

 

 

The transponder was picked up by in-home ADS-B recovers and fed into the FR24 system so the BEA (French Investigators) have the data from their database as well as ATC and ACARS. 

Also from my almost constant watching of Air Crash Investigation the two priorities after a crash are survivors and then CVR/FDR. 

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AlphonseCapone

The transponder was picked up by in-home ADS-B recovers and fed into the FR24 system so the BEA (French Investigators) have the data from their database as well as ATC and ACARS.

Also from my almost constant watching of Air Crash Investigation the two priorities after a crash are survivors and then CVR/FDR.

How many episodes would I need to watch for this post to make any sense to me :s ?

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