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The 2015 General Election Megathread


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the big difference being, that the better together lies have cost us nothing, "same old shit as before" the SNP lies would see us with no money for infrastructure to run the country let alone make it profitable for us to be better off, it would have left us needing to ask somebody to bail us out.

 

not a great situation to drag a country of people into with a bunch of lies. how anybody can vote for a party that were willing to do that to millions of people is rather sad and its even more sad that the options are so abysmal.

 

viva politics

 

Hmm...not sure if BT lies have "cost us nothing".  Yes, it is the "same old shit", but changes to social security, underselling Royal Mail, potential Brexit...it's not like voting No kept the status quo as we see post GE2015.

 

Would we have needed a bail out if we had gained independence?  I don't know.  Nobody really knows.

 

Sure, I suspect that it would have been tough to begin with, but surely anyone looking at it logically would have understood that?

 

How can millions vote for a party that were willing to "lie" as you see it?  Perhaps your next point regarding the abysmal option is your answer?  Are the elctorate so disenfranchised from Westminster that they want independence, regardless of the cost?

 

That isn't the SNP's fault.  Deriliction of duty from the (not so) big three.

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AlphonseCapone

Following me around?

 

A bit creepy.

 

Less creepy than you constantly making comments about my youthfulness. 

 

To be fair to Trapper, excepting foreign policy, the SNP position is a,in to that of New Labour under Blair. It's New Labour in a yellow rosette.

 

To be fair to Trapper he talks shite on basically every occasion, you've made a point up out of him not actually making a point.

 

Did anyone see QT last night? :rofl: a right good balanced audience eh! The Dundee Tory branch bussed in from morningside to gloat and pull themselves into a frenzy over the GERS figures!

 

It was embarrassing eh. The Lib Dems, Tories and Labour once again proving how in synch they are.

 

Patrick Harvie was great last night I thought, wish more folk would listen to him. I especially thought he was the only one who was spot on regarding the Queen.

Edited by hmfcbyt
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AlphonseCapone

The electorate have been lied to by the SNP - if there had been a yes vote in the referendum we would be up shit creek now .I voted yes but wont be doing so again and wont be voting SNP in the coming elections . The behaviour of the cyber nats post referendum was also disgusting towards the elderly electorate . Jimmy Cranky oot.

 

Scottish Independence doesn't equal SNP totalitarian state.

 

The fact you ended with Jimmy Crank oot suggests you are talking shite about voting Yes or are a moron.

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coconut doug

Ireland is suffering huge wealth inequality from the crash. Worse than Scotland. Figures look good but itself debatable if the positive figures are being felt by the majority of the people.

 

Oil fund might've been a good idea in 1982 but its 2016 and the time has come to move on. It's a dirty, greenhouse gas producing dinosaur which is diminished and its value reduced.

 

Scotland wanted into NATO were all nations shelter under the nuclear umbrella. No pay, but gain? Equally the UK's place in the UN is as much down to its economy and soft power influence as it is nuclear bombs. However, I do get your point. Yet it should be noted in 1945/6 when the UN came about only one power was a nuclear nation. So security council permanent seats aren't necessarily based on the bomb.

The most recent figures show Ireland having 25% more GDP per capita than the U.K. Even when PPP is factored in the figure exceeds the U.K. by more than 10% 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita 2014 figures.

 

When it comes to income distribution Ireland is again far better than the U.K. ranking amongst the best in the world whereas the U.K. is amongst the worst. Perhaps more salient is that Ireland's wealth is becoming more evenly distributed whilst in the U.K it is becoming more concentrated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality  In the E.U. only Portugal is worse than the U.K. and even then it's by a very small amount.

 

You say you don't agree with the figures but other sources I found show the same as those linked. The differences between the U.K. and Ireland are now substantial and growing yet you claim the opposite. I'd like to see your evidence not least because according to your assertion the Irish are missing out on a better together dividend. If they knew what you know, perhaps they would start clamouring for an enlarged United kingdom.

 

"Huge wealth inequality from the crash you say", Where's your evidence?

 

I'm also not aware of any suggestion that Scotland would not be prepared to pay to be in Nato. Are you suggesting that we are beggars or that we would not be prepared to take our share of responsibility? 

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The most recent figures show Ireland having 25% more GDP per capita than the U.K. Even when PPP is factored in the figure exceeds the U.K. by more than 10%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita 2014 figures.

 

When it comes to income distribution Ireland is again far better than the U.K. ranking amongst the best in the world whereas the U.K. is amongst the worst. Perhaps more salient is that Ireland's wealth is becoming more evenly distributed whilst in the U.K it is becoming more concentrated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality In the E.U. only Portugal is worse than the U.K. and even then it's by a very small amount.

 

You say you don't agree with the figures but other sources I found show the same as those linked. The differences between the U.K. and Ireland are now substantial and growing yet you claim the opposite. I'd like to see your evidence not least because according to your assertion the Irish are missing out on a better together dividend. If they knew what you know, perhaps they would start clamouring for an enlarged United kingdom.

 

"Huge wealth inequality from the crash you say", Where's your evidence?

 

Obviously I am working at the moment and unable to provide you a break down. However, I am not arguing that the Irish are asking to get back in. I am saying the grass isn't always greener.

 

One of the reasons, cited in a variety of newspapers and commentators, for the reshaping of Irish politics was an inequality of wealth and a feeling the recovery wasn't benefiting all.

 

I'm also not aware of any suggestion that Scotland would not be prepared to pay to be in Nato. Are you suggesting that we are beggars or that we would not be prepared to take our share of responsibility?

Nope. Not beggars. My point is that an anti-nuclear nation is engaged in mass hypocrisy to sign up to NATO and shelter under the nuclear umbrella.

 

New Zealand walked out of ANZUS in the 80s over it. Why do you want Scotland committed to 2% of gdp on defence when you could be free of that and able to not adhere to NATO dictat? Like Ireland etc.

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Nope. Not beggars. My point is that an anti-nuclear nation is engaged in mass hypocrisy to sign up to NATO and shelter under the nuclear umbrella.

 

 

 

But it doesn't preclude NATO membership.  Denmark, for example.

 

From here, http://nwp.ilpi.org/?p=2317, I found this quite interesting

 

POLICIES ADOPTED AT NATIONAL LEVEL

NATO member states have, since the early days of the Alliance, reserved the right to adopt independent national policies on nuclear weapons. Some of these restrict participation in the nuclear weapons activities of the Alliance, without restricting these states from participating in the work of the Alliance more generally. As indicated by the examples below, this right has been reserved by nuclear-armed and non-nuclear-armed states alike, suggesting that a precedent exists for allowing individual member states flexibility vis-?-vis policies agreed at the inter-governmental level.

  1. Deployment of nuclear weapons is prohibited in Denmark, Norway, and Spain (in peacetime), as well as Iceland and Lithuania (no distinction between war- and peacetime).
  2. Visits by nuclear-capable naval units are restricted in Iceland, Denmark and Norway.
  3. France does not participate in NATO?s arrangements for collective nuclear planning. Its nuclear weapons are not assigned to NATO, and its nuclear strategy is guided by national priorities, in the past often at odds with the preferences of other Allies.
  4. NATO?s claim to be a nuclear alliance rests upon its nuclear-armed members? willingness to make their nuclear weapons available for collective defence arrangements. Any doctrinal changes in the UK and the US may as a result bear on NATO?s nuclear posture.

Last one is quite pertinent.

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The electorate have been lied to by the SNP - if there had been a yes vote in the referendum we would be up shit creek now .I voted yes but wont be doing so again and wont be voting SNP in the coming elections . The behaviour of the cyber nats post referendum was also disgusting towards the elderly electorate . Jimmy Cranky oot.

yes, I am sure you voted YES                                    

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Maybe it was just a randomly picked audience that saw good reason to call Swinney and the SNP out for the frauds that they are.

2 labour activists get to ask questions, one of whom was a friend of Jenny Marra, pure coincidence I am sure. One of them was chucked out the party for comparing YES voters to Hitler Youth. the BBC once again showing themselves up as totally anti-SNP and a disgrace   

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The electorate have been lied to by the SNP - if there had been a yes vote in the referendum we would be up shit creek now .I voted yes but wont be doing so again and wont be voting SNP in the coming elections . The behaviour of the cyber nats post referendum was also disgusting towards the elderly electorate . Jimmy Cranky oot.

I smell shite.
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2 labour activists get to ask questions, one of whom was a friend of Jenny Marra, pure coincidence I am sure. One of them was chucked out the party for comparing YES voters to Hitler Youth. the BBC once again showing themselves up as totally anti-SNP and a disgrace

Hahaha. You're embarrassing yourself.

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Trapper John McIntyre

Scottish Independence doesn't equal SNP totalitarian state.

 

The fact you ended with Jimmy Crank oot suggests you are talking shite about voting Yes or are a moron

 

Come on Junior, everyone seems to be talking shite except you.

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Come on Junior, everyone seems to be talking shite except you.

:D

Cmon Traps, you don't think he voted yes either.

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Why?

A yes city, with no Scots in the audience.

Paranoia, project fear, everyone against Scotland etc. Pathetic. They were asking questions the SNP have no answer to which is why you are deflecting onto claims of bias. Same happened in the referendum - currency plan B? Erm, BBC hate us! Boo BBC!

 

There were many SNP supporters in the audience, noted when as usual they applaud after anything Swinney said. The most bizarre was when Swinney stated that there would be an independent body looking at Scotland's finances - something he was railroaded into against his will by the uk government as part of the Scotland bill negotiations. Swinney had even previously persuaded the majority SNP members of the committee (think Scottish House of Lords equivalent) to change their mind on an earlier decision to have one. The audience asked the questions that needed to be asked.

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Paranoia, project fear, everyone against Scotland etc. Pathetic. They were asking questions the SNP have no answer to which is why you are deflecting onto claims of bias. Same happened in the referendum - currency plan B? Erm, BBC hate us! Boo BBC!

There were many SNP supporters in the audience, noted when as usual they applaud after anything Swinney said. The most bizarre was when Swinney stated that there would be an independent body looking at Scotland's finances - something he was railroaded into against his will by the uk government as part of the Scotland bill negotiations. Swinney had even previously persuaded the majority SNP members of the committee (think Scottish House of Lords equivalent) to change their mind on an earlier decision to have one. The audience asked the questions that needed to be asked.

Didn't watch it, I don't watch live BBC. No licence fee.

It matters not a jot, because we won't have to bother with the EBC/UKBC much longer with UKexit.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn

Less creepy than you constantly making comments about my youthfulness.

 

 

To be fair to Trapper he talks shite on basically every occasion, you've made a point up out of him not actually making a point.

 

 

It was embarrassing eh. The Lib Dems, Tories and Labour once again proving how in synch they are.

 

Patrick Harvie was great last night I thought, wish more folk would listen to him. I especially thought he was the only one who was spot on regarding the Queen.

Harvie's point about the Queen was a load of populist shite. :lol:

 

"If she wants a say on the EU referendum then she should become an ordinary citizen." She's not asking for a say you thick *****. Someone has blabbed about comments made by her in private. If she was campaigning to leave the EU then fine but she clearly isn't and clearly isn't going to.

 

Harvie is just a Nat clone - queen=UK therefore attack her on any grounds. Not a surprise that he's a Green with political skill like that.

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Harvie's point about the Queen was a load of populist shite. :lol:

"If she wants a say on the EU referendum then she should become an ordinary citizen." She's not asking for a say you thick *****. Someone has blabbed about comments made by her in private. If she was campaigning to leave the EU then fine but she clearly isn't and clearly isn't going to.

Harvie is just a Nat clone - queen=UK therefore attack her on any grounds. Not a surprise that he's a Green with political skill like that.

The yersel peace.
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But it doesn't preclude NATO membership. Denmark, for example.

 

From here, http://nwp.ilpi.org/?p=2317, I found this quite interesting

POLICIES ADOPTED AT NATIONAL LEVEL

NATO member states have, since the early days of the Alliance, reserved the right to adopt independent national policies on nuclear weapons. Some of these restrict participation in the nuclear weapons activities of the Alliance, without restricting these states from participating in the work of the Alliance more generally. As indicated by the examples below, this right has been reserved by nuclear-armed and non-nuclear-armed states alike, suggesting that a precedent exists for allowing individual member states flexibility vis-?-vis policies agreed at the inter-governmental level.

  • Deployment of nuclear weapons is prohibited in Denmark, Norway, and Spain (in peacetime), as well as Iceland and Lithuania (no distinction between war- and peacetime).
  • Visits by nuclear-capable naval units are restricted in Iceland, Denmark and Norway.
  • France does not participate in NATO?s arrangements for collective nuclear planning. Its nuclear weapons are not assigned to NATO, and its nuclear strategy is guided by national priorities, in the past often at odds with the preferences of other Allies.
  • NATO?s claim to be a nuclear alliance rests upon its nuclear-armed members? willingness to make their nuclear weapons available for collective defence arrangements. Any doctrinal changes in the UK and the US may as a result bear on NATO?s nuclear posture.

Last one is quite pertinent.

What's your point Boris?

 

All I said was the NATO alliance posture is an attack on one is one on all. So defence contingencies apply. Say an independent, Scotland is attacked, it abhors and has banned the use of and deployment of nuclear weapons in Scotland. Yet in NATO it would be covered by nuclear defence regardless of its national views. That doctrinal policy shift you mention isn't there. Nuclear weapons don't need to be in Scotland to protect Scotland. It's hypocrisy.

 

Personally, I don't think if you look at where Scotland is that it needs to be in NATO. Scotland doesn't need the defence forces the SNP claim it does. Why do we need euro fighters? Or an army of 15,000? We won't be going about the world policing it. We'd lack the operationally ability to do so. So why bother spending 2% of GDP on defence as required by NATO? Why not just have enough to keep our local area safe (North Sea mainly) and to contribute to UN peacekeeping. Rest isn't needed.

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coconut doug

Obviously I am working at the moment and unable to provide you a break down. However, I am not arguing that the Irish are asking to get back in. I am saying the grass isn't always greener.

 

One of the reasons, cited in a variety of newspapers and commentators, for the reshaping of Irish politics was an inequality of wealth and a feeling the recovery wasn't benefiting all.

 

 

Nope. Not beggars. My point is that an anti-nuclear nation is engaged in mass hypocrisy to sign up to NATO and shelter under the nuclear umbrella.

 

New Zealand walked out of ANZUS in the 80s over it. Why do you want Scotland committed to 2% of gdp on defence when you could be free of that and able to not adhere to NATO dictat? Like Ireland etc.

On this issue, according to official figures, in Ireland , the grass is very much greener and getting greener still. They are doing better than the U.K on almost every measure after starting from a long way behind.

Do you always believe what you read in the newspapers and disbelieve the U.N.

 

Don't you think that all politics is shaped by issues around inequality and wealth and feelings that the recovery does not benefit everybody?

 

Who is this anti-nuclear nation? Do you think all members of Nato should have to support the nuclear element of the alliance? Some might think they are not sheltering under this umbrella because they do not believe it to be an effective deterrent or because they do not like nuclear weapons on principal. Others may not be happy because the nuclear weapons can only be deployed by the U.S.A. and will only be used when the U.S.A's interests are threatened.

 

 I don't want Scotland committed to 2% of spending on defence. That is current Tory and Labour policy is it not?

 

Do you really believe that Scotland will be attacked by a country that will subsequently be deterred by nuclear weapons?

 

Wasn't the Nato defence posture as you describe it, overturned when Turkey was told that Nato would not be jumping in should Turkey find itself in a war with Russia?

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Britz still deluded that the Onion is Great.

?1.6t and counting.

With Scotland contributing to that debt faster than they should be.

 

Scotland have got it better being part of the UK than we would if on our own.

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AlphonseCapone

Harvie's point about the Queen was a load of populist shite. :lol:

 

"If she wants a say on the EU referendum then she should become an ordinary citizen." She's not asking for a say you thick *****. Someone has blabbed about comments made by her in private. If she was campaigning to leave the EU then fine but she clearly isn't and clearly isn't going to.

 

Harvie is just a Nat clone - queen=UK therefore attack her on any grounds. Not a surprise that he's a Green with political skill like that.

You could just take a select part of what of what he said or you could look at it all. Which of these points he made do you disagree with;

 

The Queen is not politically neutral.

 

Maybe we should get a vote on our head of state.

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Watched BBCQT. Don't get the conspiracy theories here. Think all panelists performed well.

 

Patrick Harvie always stands out as good performer. Made more cogent arguments on independence/europe than Swinney does.

 

Thinking though, should BBC Scotland ditch a Scottish 6 and instead look at a Scottish panel show hosted by Brian Taylor weekly? Might be better.

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With Scotland contributing to that debt faster than they should be.

Scotland have got it better being part of the UK than we would if on our own.

No and so.
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Watched BBCQT. Don't get the conspiracy theories here. Think all panelists performed well.

Patrick Harvie always stands out as good performer. Made more cogent arguments on independence/europe than Swinney does.

Thinking though, should BBC Scotland ditch a Scottish 6 and instead look at a Scottish panel show hosted by Brian Taylor weekly? Might be better.

You'd need someone that might last the whole hour.
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Trapper John McIntyre

Enjoyable to watch Andrew Neil destroy Krankie Sturgeon this morning.

 

Neil: You should be nice to Westminster, they're sendng you a lot of money'

 

Nicola:  Splutters...nods head from side to side...tries to smile. 

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Enjoyable to watch Andrew Neil destroy Krankie Sturgeon this morning.

 

Neil: You should be nice to Westminster, they're sendng you a lot of money'

 

Nicola:  Splutters...nods head from side to side...tries to smile.

 

Aye, so he did trapper, usual Scottish Brit. A sellout fae paisley
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Enjoyable to watch Andrew Neil destroy Krankie Sturgeon this morning.

 

Neil: You should be nice to Westminster, they're sendng you a lot of money'

 

Nicola: Splutters...nods head from side to side...tries to smile.

Yep. She finally had to admit that austerity would be the only way to cut the deficit

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Trapper John McIntyre

Aye, so he did trapper, usual Scottish Brit. A sellout fae paisley

Along with the 2 million others.

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Enjoyable to watch Andrew Neil destroy Krankie Sturgeon this morning.

 

Neil: You should be nice to Westminster, they're sendng you a lot of money'

 

Nicola: Splutters...nods head from side to side...tries to smile.

I remember watching him interview Nikki on Scottish Currency sometime during 2014. It was hilarious and you knew right then that it was over.

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Along with the 2 million others.

Yes trapper. I know.

But at least I now know 53% of Scots born voted yes. I'll take that and know we've been robbed, once again.

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Thunderstruck

Aye, so he did trapper, usual Scottish Brit. A sellout fae paisley

There must be quite a lot of "sell-outs" in Paisley. English settlers no doubt.

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Yes trapper. I know.

But at least I now know 53% of Scots born voted yes. I'll take that and know we've been robbed, once again.

Hard proof of that?

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There must be quite a lot of "sell-outs" in Paisley. English settlers no doubt.

They've moved to Dundee, going by QT.
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Have to admire Sturgeon's level of bullshit she can come out with. No idea how she can do it with a straight face - maybe that's why she does that wee chuckle during her sentences.

 

"Every country has a deficit" Sturgeon keeps repeating as if that makes it all ok. Fact is that no country in the whole of the EU has a deficit as bad as Scotland does now. "but but but the UK had a deficit like Scotland's current one back in 2009" she replies. Yeah, well done Nicola, you've picked the year where the UK is recovering from the worst recession in decades where you'd expect to be fighting an uphill battle. Scotland has no such excuse to be in the position it is currently in.

 

The main thing is Sturgeon has admitted that if Scotland had been independent in 2 weeks time, Scotland would have dealt with that deficit in the same way as the UK dealt with theirs (Scotland also were affected while the UK dealt with theirs). What do we call it when we deal with a deficit? Austerity! So finally she admits that indy Scotland austerity would need to be worse than the austerity that she currently moans about all the time.

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Have to admire Sturgeon's level of bullshit she can come out with. No idea how she can do it with a straight face - maybe that's why she does that wee chuckle during her sentences.

 

"Every country has a deficit" Sturgeon keeps repeating as if that makes it all ok. Fact is that no country in the whole of the EU has a deficit as bad as Scotland does now. "but but but the UK had a deficit like Scotland's current one back in 2009" she replies. Yeah, well done Nicola, you've picked the year where the UK is recovering from the worst recession in decades where you'd expect to be fighting an uphill battle. Scotland has no such excuse to be in the position it is currently in.

 

The main thing is Sturgeon has admitted that if Scotland had been independent in 2 weeks time, Scotland would have dealt with that deficit in the same way as the UK dealt with theirs (Scotland also were affected while the UK dealt with theirs). What do we call it when we deal with a deficit? Austerity! So finally she admits that indy Scotland austerity would need to be worse than the austerity that she currently moans about all the time.

 

She also doesn't give a shit. If she cared a toss about Scotland she would apologise and renounce independence.

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Trapper John McIntyre

Have to admire Sturgeon's level of bullshit she can come out with. No idea how she can do it with a straight face - maybe that's why she does that wee chuckle during her sentences.

 

"Every country has a deficit" Sturgeon keeps repeating as if that makes it all ok. Fact is that no country in the whole of the EU has a deficit as bad as Scotland does now. "but but but the UK had a deficit like Scotland's current one back in 2009" she replies. Yeah, well done Nicola, you've picked the year where the UK is recovering from the worst recession in decades where you'd expect to be fighting an uphill battle. Scotland has no such excuse to be in the position it is currently in.

 

The main thing is Sturgeon has admitted that if Scotland had been independent in 2 weeks time, Scotland would have dealt with that deficit in the same way as the UK dealt with theirs (Scotland also were affected while the UK dealt with theirs). What do we call it when we deal with a deficit? Austerity! So finally she admits that indy Scotland austerity would need to be worse than the austerity that she currently moans about all the time.

 

 

Unlike that fat sycophant Brian Taylor or any other BBC Scotland/STV stooges, terrified to upset Scotland's Partei, Andrew Neil is unafraid to go for the throat.

 

Today he was relatively easy with Sturgeon and still made her look a complete twat.

 

He got her to admit Scotland's deficit would be dealt with just as the Tories had in  the UK. She was all over the place.

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She also doesn't give a shit. If she cared a toss about Scotland she would apologise and renounce independence.

Aye, you're good.

Apologies :rofl: Renounce :rofl:

Aye, fae the traitor's more like for attempted Murder of Scotland.

Edited by aussieh
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Here she is, lying through her teeth and insulting the intelligence of everybody in Scotland:

 

 

The new bullshit is that we need to look to the future, not the past. Oil disnae matter since it's the past. It's not the future, which it was 18 months ago.

Edited by Gorgiewave
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Here she is, lying through her teeth and insulting the intelligence of everybody in Scotland:

 

 

The new bullshit is that we need to look to the future, not the past. Oil disnae matter since it's the past. It's not the future, which it was 18 months ago.

More GW bullshit.

How are they birds, any still alive.

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Here she is, lying through her teeth and insulting the intelligence of everybody in Scotland:

 

 

The new bullshit is that we need to look to the future, not the past. Oil disnae matter since it's the past. It's not the future, which it was 18 months ago.

Christ she was embarrasing there.

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Thunderstruck

Here she is, lying through her teeth and insulting the intelligence of everybody in Scotland:

 

 

The new bullshit is that we need to look to the future, not the past. Oil disnae matter since it's the past. It's not the future, which it was 18 months ago.

Embarrassing - she was losing it by the end.

 

Debt v Deficit - Economics 101 - failed.

 

They are going to ruin this country of ours.

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Trapper John McIntyre

Embarrassing - she was losing it by the end.

 

Debt v Deficit - Economics 101 - failed.

 

They are going to ruin this country of ours.

 

If you claim to love Scotland, don't vote for Sturgeon and her band of Nationalist charlatans in May.

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Embarrassing - she was losing it by the end.

 

Debt v Deficit - Economics 101 - failed.

 

They are going to ruin this country of ours.

If it wasn't for the FM and the GLS we'd be ruined.

Thank god for a party that actually cares for Scotland.

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If you claim to love Scotland, don't vote for Sturgeon and her band of Nationalist charlatans in May.

Aye vote labour, so we can invade other countries for their oil too.
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If you claim to love Scotland, don't vote for Sturgeon and her band of Nationalist charlatans in May.

Scotland, you helped kill her.
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Trapper John McIntyre

Aye vote labour, so we can invade other countries for their oil too.

 

Starting to have doubts, Aus?

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