Paolo Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/29541498 I note the PFA is publicly backing Ched Evans' right to go back to work as a professional footballer. I find it interesting. What he done was a horrid crime, but they may be right to say he has served his time, and that he should be allowed back to work. Whether the sentence was long enough, is not the point. He has served his time in accordance with the law, is their view,, it seems. The reason I have mentioned this, at the risk of opening up an old debate, is I do not recall the Scottish Players Union publicly backing Craig Thomson (for arguably a lesser crime), or backing Hearts, for at the time, allowing him his legal right to continue earning a living. Fraser Wishart was awfully quiet on the matter, from what I recall. I could be wrong, but if not, it will be interesting to hear if folk think it is correct to back the player's right to work, or it was correct not to, or at least remain silent on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Do The Dance Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 He has a right to work. No one needs to employ him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 He has a right to work. No one needs to employ him though. That is correct I suspect a club would though. Do you think, though, his Union are right to publicly back this right, or do you think they should not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/29541498 I note the PFA is publicly backing Ched Evans' right to go back to work as a professional footballer. I find it interesting. What he done was a horrid crime, but they may be right to say he has served his time, and that he should be allowed back to work. Whether the sentence was long enough, is not the point. He has served his time in accordance with the law, is their view,, it seems. The reason I have mentioned this, at the risk of opening up an old debate, is I do not recall the Scottish Players Union publicly backing Craig Thomson (for arguably a lesser crime), or backing Hearts, for at the time, allowing him his legal right to continue earning a living. Fraser Wishart was awfully quiet on the matter, from what I recall. I could be wrong, but if not, it will be interesting to hear if folk think it is correct to back the player's right to work, or it was correct not to, or at least remain silent on the matter. there's no arguably about it, Thomson was guilty of a far lesser offence. The boy has done his time and is entitled to seek an employer. I wouldn't want him here though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie1874 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Both have a right to continue careers, the problem Thomson had that no clubs were prepared to take a chance on a player unproven at even Scottish level, but Evans will have championship clubs scrambling to sign him as he was a top prospect before his crime and if it works out he'll be worth a lot of money. Unfortunately money is the only thing that matters to some Club chairmen especially in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Both have a right to continue careers, the problem Thomson had that no clubs were prepared to take a chance on a player unproven at even Scottish level, but Evans will have championship clubs scrambling to sign him as he was a top prospect before his crime and if it works out he'll be worth a lot of money. Unfortunately money is the only thing that matters to some Club chairmen especially in England. There seems to be a consensus here, so far, though I would be interested to know if there is one on how the different unions responded, i.e. the PFA have been public about their view, the SPFA (if that is what they are called) said nothing in support of the player publicly, that I recall, seemingly allowing fans, and the press to totally slaughter the player, put him under near suiveilance, making his life hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross992 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I think the term "backing" him is purely for headline purposes it's not like they are actively trying to get him a club. All they are saying is that they won't stand in his way as he tries to seek employment. I think he probably will get a club, just at a lower level than he played before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 He has every right to seek employment after serving his custodial sentence. He may well find a few clubs will body swerve him, and I imagine he's in for a torrid time from the terracing if and when he does find a club. I can't see the fans of any prospective new club being over the moon either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnomarooned Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 there's no arguably about it, Thomson was guilty of a far lesser offence. The boy has done his time and is entitled to seek an employer. I wouldn't want him here though. That's the clincher really isn't it. Without doubt he does have a right to earn a living etc. once he's served the punishement society has decreed appropriate. However, given the specific of the crime I'd be surprised if most clubs didn't think twice about the fan reaction in taking him on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bauld Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 The issue with Thomsons offence was it related to minors. It is a major part of a footballers career to work closely with kids. Regardless of the severity of the crime there was no way in hell any parents would condone him working with youngsters at any level. He didnt stand a chance in football after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Do The Dance Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 That is correct I suspect a club would though. Do you think, though, his Union are right to publicly back this right, or do you think they should not have. He'll have been asked a question on him, rather than making a point of coming out and make a statement, I would have imagined. He's right in what he says, he is well within his rights to seek employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 The boy has done his time and is entitled to seek an employer. I wouldn't want him here though. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM Sheffield Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Both have a right to continue careers, the problem Thomson had that no clubs were prepared to take a chance on a player unproven at even Scottish level, but Evans will have championship clubs scrambling to sign him as he was a top prospect before his crime and if it works out he'll be worth a lot of money. Unfortunately money is the only thing that matters to some Club chairmen especially in England. I doubt Championship clubs will be after him he has only really scored goals in League 1. Personally I think he will end up back at the Lane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Not sure the OP's look at how everyone is anti-hearts angle is particularly well thought out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Not sure the OP's look at how everyone is anti-hearts angle is particularly well thought out. Erm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Erm? "The reason I have mentioned this, at the risk of opening up an old debate, is I do not recall the Scottish Players Union publicly backing Craig Thomson (for arguably a lesser crime), or backing Hearts, for at the time, allowing him his legal right to continue earning a living." Simple enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 Not sure the OP's look at how everyone is anti-hearts angle is particularly well thought out. I have said nothing of the kind. I am just commenting on how it appears the two players unions seem to have dealt with it differently, and asked for people's thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 "The reason I have mentioned this, at the risk of opening up an old debate, is I do not recall the Scottish Players Union publicly backing Craig Thomson (for arguably a lesser crime), or backing Hearts, for at the time, allowing him his legal right to continue earning a living." Simple enough. And where do I say everyone was against Hearts? Just highlighting the different approaches. Given they were quick to back players, correctly, during our wages issue, it was odd that they seemed to be non committal, either way. Perhaps they were, but privately, but I was interested to know what people thought. No agenda or paranoia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Totally different crime but Lee Hughes controversially made a decent lower league return to football and ended up with a decent career. Somebody will take Evans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:shitwine: Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Totally different crime but Lee Hughes controversially made a decent lower league return to football and ended up with a decent career. Somebody will take Evans. Luke McCormick is also back at Plymouth after serving 4 years for causing 2 deaths by dangerous driving. I believe he has even captained the side as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 The issue with Thomsons offence was it related to minors. It is a major part of a footballers career to work closely with kids. Regardless of the severity of the crime there was no way in hell any parents would condone him working with youngsters at any level. He didnt stand a chance in football after that. I think you are probably right (that CT's offence involved minors), but the kind of behaviour that CT indulged in, sexting (or something close to it), whilst repugnant, is nowhere near as serious as rape, quite probably a sign of immaturity on his part. As for Evans, you could just as well argue that it is a major part of a footballer's (or anyone's) career to work closely with women. Based on their respective criminal records, Evans is much more of a danger than CT. In any event, I'd like to think that we all believe in the rehabilitation of offenders, not least to make the world a safer place. If CT is to mature, he needs to lead a normal life with an adult peer group and positive role models. The fact that he appears to be unemployable (in football anyway) makes that less possible. I don't have any clever solutions for either of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 ******* reptile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weekend offender Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Rapists have no place in society,as for he's done his time ffs what about the young woman he raped he's prob ruined her life.Let him rot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward snowdon Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 The real issue will be if any team does risk it and sign him. My wife niece etc attend games as do many females of all ages if any team was to sign him think they would alienate a large part of their fanbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I love the hypocrisy of the PFA. Racism = its bad! Rape = aye, no bother, crack on son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Deserves utter dogs abuse (which he'll get) if he returns to football. Vermin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I'm a bit of a hypocrite on this I feel, if he's done his time he deserves a chance to work. I wouldn't want him near my club though and would protest in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 It's a tough one. Personally I think clubs are generally seen as family clubs therefore nobody may want to touch him. The Belgian player Mboyo took part in a gang rape as a 17 yr old and even trained with Charleroi whilst in prison. He went onto play for Gent and earned a call up to the Belgium national team. The girl was 11 years old ffs! Personally I think he shouldn't be touched with a barge pole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Luke McCormick is also back at Plymouth after serving 4 years for causing 2 deaths by dangerous driving. I believe he has even captained the side as well. Is that the goalkeeper? He was quite a young lad as well when it happened I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 He has every right to seek employment after serving his custodial sentence. He may well find a few clubs will body swerve him, and I imagine he's in for a torrid time from the terracing if and when he does find a club. I can't see the fans of any prospective new club being over the moon either. This sums it up for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I've been reading a bit about this after a friend posted a petition on Facebook imploring the Utd chairman to refuse to let him back. The club are refusing to comment on whether or not he will be reinstated which makes me think he will be. I think that the reason it is being considered is because they don't think he's guilty. Having read the key points from the case, I have to say I was very surprised that they secured a conviction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 As a father of 2 young daughters, I think this disgusting excuse of a human should be castrated (with a knife, not chemicals or pills) and left to rot. As should all convicted rapists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 As a father of 2 young daughters, I think this disgusting excuse of a human should be castrated (with a knife, not chemicals or pills) and left to rot. As should all convicted rapists. As the father of no children, I'm glad calmer heads than yours decide the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 As the father of no children, I'm glad calmer heads than yours decide the law. So you think rapists serve a useful purpose in society then is that it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 As the father of no children, I'm glad calmer heads than yours decide the law. Yeah, those calmer heads have done a right bang up job of making the punishment for these crimes a suitable deterrent to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 As a father of 2 young daughters, I think this disgusting excuse of a human should be castrated (with a knife, not chemicals or pills) and left to rot. As should all convicted rapists. And if they appeal afterwards and have the sentence quashed? Sow them back on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 As a father of 2 young daughters, I think this disgusting excuse of a human should be castrated (with a knife, not chemicals or pills) and left to rot. As should all convicted rapists. What's is being a father got to do with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 And if they appeal afterwards and have the sentence quashed? Sow them back on? It'll act as a deterrent for all the other would-be rapists, a small price to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 It's all about society and how we deal with prisoners. Do people feel they should have the right to earn money 'outside' and if so how much ? Does it depend upon the crime ? Are footballers/sportspersons different from other sectors of society ? We have had murderers in the past become venerated as great artists and seemingly treated normally in our society afterwards, we have had ex politicians become celebrities despite defrauding the country,we have had businessmen convicted of stealing millions, we have had numerous public figures be convicted of drink driving or drug involvement and yet be welcomed back into society. Are some prisoners only able to acheive so much when they come out of prison because society says it's not fair that they do so when the victim of their crime has sufferred or because the media tell us so ? Is it really about how the media want to create a story and fuel the public's sense of unfairness with some 'public' figures ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic Username Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Whichever club he ends up at, he'll not be getting asked to plan the nights out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I think that the reason it is being considered is because they don't think he's guilty. Having read the key points from the case, I have to say I was very surprised that they secured a conviction. I kind of see where you're coming from however I think the shock was more that they didn't also secure a conviction for his friend, the guy who was deemed not guilty. The case hinged on whether the girl was too drunk to know what she was doing, which, with the help of CCTV they said she didn't. This has been a hot topic for years in rape now and the real shock was the first guy being proved not guilty. If the courts believed to she was too intoxicated to know what she was doing then both should have been found guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilBerry79 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Have a look at the website they have made up to state the case for the guys innocence. Seems the girl involved was posting messages about how much money she was going to make out of this allegation which she later removed along the lines of I'll be buying us cars, taking us on holidays etc, I don't condone rapists in any way what so ever. When there is clear proof then life sentence or castration for me. I'm not however convinced he is guilty in this case though looking at some of the other points raised, how he can be convicted and his mate let off makes no sense to me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Have a look at the website they have made up to state the case for the guys innocence. Seems the girl involved was posting messages about how much money she was going to make out of this allegation which she later removed along the lines of I'll be buying us cars, taking us on holidays etc, I don't condone rapists in any way what so ever. When there is clear proof then life sentence or castration for me. I'm not however convinced he is guilty in this case though looking at some of the other points raised, how he can be convicted and his mate let off makes no sense to me at all. This is me running things through my head and I'm by no means saying this was happened in this case. If someone is raped and decides they'll make money from it, does this mean they shouldn't be entitled to anything? Undoubtedly rape affects people differently but what if this girl wasn't impacted the way other women possibly are and decided that she was going to make money from it. It's a tough one because IMO there's a huge difference from someone going out to setup an individual to one which was taken advantage of with both looking for financial gain. I'm not saying for one moment this girl is innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling Archer Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Yeah, those calmer heads have done a right bang up job of making the punishment for these crimes a suitable deterrent to others. Evidence that punishments of these sorts act as any sort of deterrent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Evidence that punishments of these sorts act as any sort of deterrent? There is none- quite the opposite- use of chemical castration increases the likelihood that the perp will kill their victim. And on Mr Evans- yes he has the right to employment, HOWEVER many professions will not re-admit a rapist. - nursing, teaching, medicine- as it is seen as bringing the profession into disrepute. Perhaps more professions should adopt this attitude. and the analogy with the RTA fatalities is stupid. There is a difference between driving stupidly (we all have) and accidentaly crashing leading to death, and picking up a wasted girl and raping her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorgie rd eh11 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Not sure the OP's look at how everyone is anti-hearts angle is particularly well thought out. It's a lot better thought out than this s**t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Have a look at the website they have made up to state the case for the guys innocence. Seems the girl involved was posting messages about how much money she was going to make out of this allegation which she later removed along the lines of I'll be buying us cars, taking us on holidays etc, I don't condone rapists in any way what so ever. When there is clear proof then life sentence or castration for me. I'm not however convinced he is guilty in this case though looking at some of the other points raised, how he can be convicted and his mate let off makes no sense to me at all. He was found guilty. Presumably, the verdict was confirmed on appeal, or he chose not to appeal. I'd prefer to go with that, than some website that people have set up blaming the victim for being raped. Wasn't this also the case where certain people got into a load of trouble for naming the victim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 He was found guilty. Presumably, the verdict was confirmed on appeal, or he chose not to appeal. I'd prefer to go with that, than some website that people have set up blaming the victim for being raped. Wasn't this also the case where certain people got into a load of trouble for naming the victim? He's currently appealing at the moment from what I heard on the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Is he any good as a footballer? I've no real idea but if he is, then some club will sign him. We've seen it before with other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holyrood_Hearts Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Is he any good as a footballer? I've no real idea but if he is, then some club will sign him. We've seen it before with other players. He's pretty decent. Think Sheff Utd paid ?3m for him & scored 35 goals the season before his conviction. Got some caps from Wales as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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