scott_jambo Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Pomegranate's facebook page: After an 18 month sustained campaign of harassment led by a neighbour, we are being forced to remove ALL our lighting, and signage from our business. This willcost us our livelihood and that of the many staff we employ. As an Italian restaurant, the premises traded for over 20 years without any problems. As a middle eastern restaurant we have been plagued by complaints, by verbal abuse of both staff and customers by one lady in particular. There will be a petition in the restaurant from today, please, if you love us, and our food, take the time to stop by and sign. Below is a photo of our "offensive" menu boards and our "eyesore" restaurant frontage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argyjambo Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 What Restaurant is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 What Restaurant is it? The very excellent Pomegranate at the top of leith walk, owned by Hamans beside the castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian Lambretta Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Is it Hamans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Pomegranate's facebook page: What Restaurant is it? In the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsh Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 It used to be Ferri's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogsy Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 What exactly is the problem here? Surely the council should be telling any complainers to GTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Chappy Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 What's her argument ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiewave Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I assume there's some racist background to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostHunter Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 They're giving in ? Why ? I'd be telling the neighbour to jam it where the sun don't shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogsy Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 They're giving in ? Why ? I'd be telling the neighbour to jam it where the sun don't shine. They will be being forced to by the council. Unfortunately during my 8 years working with the council, that seems to be their Modus Operandi. The loudest complainers are always pandered to no matter how ridiculous their requests. There's usually a political motive behind it as well, would bet that she's been onto her local councillor threatening to withdraw her vote etc. Hopefully it backfires on them this time through media exposure and petitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogsy Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I assume there's some racist background to this. Certainly sounds like it given an Italian restaurant operated with similar signs and frontage for over 20 years without any complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Certainly sounds like it given an Italian restaurant operated with similar signs and frontage for over 20 years without any complaints. Also bearing in mind if she is complaining about light pollution from the signs she should be complaining about the Deep Sea chippie next door to it which is hugely brighter and is open late and can get quite rowdy outside. Or the Indian restaurant on the corner opposite which is very bright. Sounds like there has been some petty disagreement that has escalated into her going after them by complaining to the council. So possibly not racist if she hasn't complained about the indian place but certainly some sort of grudge against Pomegranate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM1874 Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Good! Hopefully they do go out. Realise that this is not a popular view, but good riddance to it. I love the food, but the owners are a pair of complete idiots! This really is karma for their behaviour down the years to employees, customers and consumers. U only have to look at the comments from them on the facebook post, slagging people off, calling them idiots etc (granted some of the posts directed to them may have been unkind, but the replies sum them up) To be honest, i really do hope that they close, even lies about the staff being employed at 'GREAT' expense is a joke. Any staff there will just be transferred over to pomegranate. Good riddance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocco_Jambo Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 "Is it cos I is black?" card played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dboy Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Need to break this down into two,the reasons why they have to take down the signs etc and why the council got involved. The planning website explains the why https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/enforcementDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=MA88EHEW0MJ00 They've appealed to Scottish government level and lost. I've no clue about planning law but I was persuaded by their (the restaurants) argument that they weren't changing the fabric of a listed building and any signs /lighting/bamboo etc could be removed. Appears to me that the planning decision was that the sign/bamboo were covering up architectural aspects of the building. It is not that they are gaudy signs ( like the deep sea) Based on the above, I think it is dangerous to have a Facebook campaign in the manner in which they have. Was there a sustained campaign against them motivated by a racism? Perhaps, but nothing in the face book page provides solid evidence. I can see a sense of frustration that they have lost the decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Need to break this down into two,the reasons why they have to take down the signs etc and why the council got involved. The planning website explains the why https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/enforcementDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=MA88EHEW0MJ00 They've appealed to Scottish government level and lost. I've no clue about planning law but I was persuaded by their (the restaurants) argument that they weren't changing the fabric of a listed building and any signs /lighting/bamboo etc could be removed. Appears to me that the planning decision was that the sign/bamboo were covering up architectural aspects of the building. It is not that they are gaudy signs ( like the deep sea) Based on the above, I think it is dangerous to have a Facebook campaign in the manner in which they have. Was there a sustained campaign against them motivated by a racism? Perhaps, but nothing in the face book page provides solid evidence. I can see a sense of frustration that they have lost the decision Whilst you can follow the logic of the council's decision, the restaurant does have a point. If everyone is breaking a law and only one person gets done for it, it's not fair. If a black family moved into a white neighbourhood and everyone parked illegally, but only they got a parking ticket, and the council said "we only issue parking tickets when someone complains". It would look pretty shady on the council's part. If you then found out that that Nick Griffin lived opposite and the family complained that they were being singled out because he rang up the council every time they parked on a single yellow 5 minutes before 6.30pm and the council replied by saying... We're quite happy to enforce the law fairly, all you have to do is grass up all your neighbours, the majority would say the council were being complicit in blatant racism. Both planning and parking laws are very easy to break without realising, more so the planning laws... imagine you bought a house, you were told the parking space was included, you parked there for 4 years, then you started getting a ticket, despite everyone else parking in a similar spot outside their house and the family before parking there for 20 years with no problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dboy Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Who else is breaking the (planning) law on this scenario? The deep sea/Shezan tandoori with their gaudy signage? I don't know perhaps they have planning permission. The order against this restaurant is because they did not have planning permission for decking/bamboo fence and it wasn't because the sign was gaudy but it covered up an architectural feature. The council presented photos from four years ago from their department suggesting it was an issue then If, however, the council only act after a complaint then it leaves the system open to those who have a petty dispute (racially motivated or not). So, do you know if everybody else is getting away with planning breaches? Do you know if the council only act on complaints (as moogsy suggests) or are just really slow at dealing with such issues? I don't. All I've done is looked at the tangible evidence . I do feel sorry for the restaurant, it's probably as tasteful a shop front as you can get. If the complainer who apparently started this off is racially motivated I hope she gets found out . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators JKBMod 6 Posted October 13, 2013 Moderators Share Posted October 13, 2013 No more trolling or off topic posts on this thread please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 Taking into account we must move back on topic of this thread, how can you say my OP was a mare? It was quoting the FB page of the restraurant with no other comment whatsoever. I stand by my view that they are getting a rough end of the stick however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators JKBMod 6 Posted October 13, 2013 Moderators Share Posted October 13, 2013 The next person to spam this thread with any off topic nonsense will be suspended for a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Looks like I have missed some good stuff here Seems to me on the face of it that the owners are being harshly treated, having not read the justifications from the council. The whole "we only act if there is a complaint" thing, if that is indeed part of their defence, is a dangerous precedent to set because it leaves them open to accusations like the above. All it takes is a complaint by some arse with an axe to grind for the perception of unfairness to be created - which only becomes worse with a racial element attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Good! Hopefully they do go out. Realise that this is not a popular view, but good riddance to it. I love the food, but the owners are a pair of complete idiots! This really is karma for their behaviour down the years to employees, customers and consumers. U only have to look at the comments from them on the facebook post, slagging people off, calling them idiots etc (granted some of the posts directed to them may have been unkind, but the replies sum them up) To be honest, i really do hope that they close, even lies about the staff being employed at 'GREAT' expense is a joke. Any staff there will just be transferred over to pomegranate. Good riddance Interesting! Ex employee? The whole issue would quickly become a non issue if they just complied within the regulations. I don't go there for sign quality, unsurprisingly it's the food quality. I won't be the only one. A sign will cost them their livelihood. How ridiculous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Moreover, the Italian restaurant didn't erect any of the intrusive elements that Pomegranate did. So in what way is the Italian relevant? It they want public sympathy the race card isn't the way to go about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 As a customer I've had nothing but excellent service and food from professional staff. You could easily go down the length of Leith Walk and pull up every small to medium sized business and pull them up on regulations in regards to their property at great expense. Times are tough and we should be showing respect to succesful local businesses. I think if they have been sitting on this for 18 months trying to resolve a petty dispute that as far as I can see does not effect the neighbour in anyway shape or form apart from his/her aesthetic tastes, then they have a right to go public when the Council has upheld the complaint. The council - especially Edinburgh City Council should always be held accountable for their actions - Pomegranate/Hanams will have paid more council tax than this complainer I'm willing to hypothesise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 Moreover, the Italian restaurant didn't erect any of the intrusive elements that Pomegranate did. So in what way is the Italian relevant? It they want public sympathy the race card isn't the way to go about it. What about the verbal abuse? They haven't played the race card either, Sten. Don't be so quick to jump on that - they are implying victimisation/special treament is being handed out by one neighbour but it may not be about race and that's never mentioned. I think making that leap whereby damning them for being a restuarant of ethnicity is a very dangerous game to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 They've got a cheek trying to come down hard on them after their shitty tram works have ruined many businesses in the area over the past couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dboy Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Moreover, the Italian restaurant didn't erect any of the intrusive elements that Pomegranate did. So in what way is the Italian relevant? It they want public sympathy the race card isn't the way to go about it. Ferris did instal some of the disputed items (some time after 21 September 2009 - the council enforcement officials took a photo on that date and they weren't there, a photo was also produced by pomegranate showing they were there whilst the restaurant was still ran by Ferris). I do think the key is did the council act on a complaint of this woman and if they did what was her motivation! Never been to pomegranate but been to hanams and was dissapointed- but I think it was more to do with being part of a large party and being given a fixed menu - I voted against going to the pomegranate recently because of the experience at hanams, perhaps I'll try it on Scott jambos recommendation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 What about the verbal abuse? They haven't played the race card either, Sten. Don't be so quick to jump on that - they are implying victimisation/special treament is being handed out by one neighbour but it may not be about race and that's never mentioned. I think making that leap whereby damning them for being a restuarant of ethnicity is a very dangerous game to play. What is the point they are making then by referring to the Italian receiving no complaints while their middle eastern restaurant has been plagued by complaining neighbours? Looks awful like a race card to me? They might of course be correct in their assumption. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 What is the point they are making then by referring to the Italian receiving no complaints while their middle eastern restaurant has been plagued by complaining neighbours? Looks awful like a race card to me? They might of course be correct in their assumption. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Its a lebanese restuarant and if you know anything about the cultural diversity of lebanon youll know there are many ethnicity s living together. Also italian is not a race either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N User Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Not wanting to get involved but by comparing between Italian and Middle-Eastern they are pretty clearly using the race card whether Italian is a race or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dboy Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 "The facts speak for themselves, oh and the 18 months of racial abuse speak quite loudly too. When an entire race is referred to as "you lot" I'd say that racism, yes. If you are interested enough to comment, please at least make sure you know all the facts first." A comment posted by pomegranate on their Facebook page. Just to reaffirm, I think they, like you say, have had the rough end of the stick ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Not wanting to get involved but by comparing between Italian and Middle-Eastern they are pretty clearly using the race card whether Italian is a race or not Correct. As I've said, they'll struggle for sympathy playing it this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 What about the verbal abuse? They haven't played the race card either, Sten. Don't be so quick to jump on that - they are implying victimisation/special treament is being handed out by one neighbour but it may not be about race and that's never mentioned. I think making that leap whereby damning them for being a restuarant of ethnicity is a very dangerous game to play. A racial element is clearly implied by the comment about the years as an Italian restaurant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Its a lebanese restuarant and if you know anything about the cultural diversity of lebanon youll know there are many ethnicity s living together. Also italian is not a race either. Someone should tell them it can't be racism before they start making fools of themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Someone should tell them it can't be racism before they start making fools of themselves. Of course it can be racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogsy Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Surely the fact that the complainer has made racial comments to the staff means there is an element of racism behind her actions? 'Playing the race card' is a ******* horrendous phrase as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Surely the fact that the complainer has made racial comments to the staff means there is an element of racism behind her actions? 'Playing the race card' is a ******* horrendous phrase as well This. It's up there with PC Brigade when calling out a bigoted comment. Race card. As a reaction to, er, racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 They are playing the race card, it's political correctness gone mad, I blame health and safety etc.. etc.. How dare people who experience prejudice and discrimination play these "cards". That's cheating isn't it? They should just get on with it, stiff upper lip and all that. That's how we do it in Old Blighty -if "they lot" want to have a business here then they better behave how we tell them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Anyone know where I can get a pack of these cards?? It's just that I reckon they would be handy to have in order to get me out of certain jams at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM1874 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Interesting! Ex employee? The whole issue would quickly become a non issue if they just complied within the regulations. I don't go there for sign quality, unsurprisingly it's the food quality. I won't be the only one. A sign will cost them their livelihood. How ridiculous! Luckily I am not an ex employee, but I know someone who was 'fortunate' enough to be employed by them. Lets just say that some of their replies on the facebook comments section made by them sum them up.. The owners are bullies who like to threaten and intimidate others to have it their own way, hence high staff turnover, if u look at the tripadvisor reviews, while many are favourable, alot are mentioning poor treatment and management being nasty, speaks for itself. The lie i previously mentioned about cost of employing people is a joke, there is not any, and as i mentioned previously if they do close all staff will magically appear at Hanams. They claim that they are being discriminated against however they are not exactly squeeky clean, from experience they treat people from certain nationalities far inferior than those of their own. There are a few incidents I would love to share with u, that could paint a better picture, of how 'friendly and helpless' they really are (please note sarcasm) but it would get the person I know into bother, and by bother I mean the owners threatening them. All i can end with is, please get this place closed as soon as possible! And that Nawroz is better haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 This. It's up there with PC Brigade when calling out a bigoted comment. Race card. As a reaction to, er, racism. Playing the race card isn't always a reaction to racism, people use it at times when in dispute with another race when the dispute has nothing to do with race. (E.g Larry Kingston) It's just a phrase that implies someone doing this. Pc Brigade is the same but a differant context. "Pc Brigade and race card are Shan patter lawlz" is worse patter than the phrases used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Playing the race card isn't always a reaction to racism, people use it at times when in dispute with another race when the dispute has nothing to do with race. (E.g Larry Kingston) This "Pc Brigade and race card are Shan patter lawlz" is worse patter than the phrases used. And very, very much this. The faux bantz is ten times worse bantz than the actual bantz Nade is fat lolz was by far the worst. Any thread started on Nade, for any reason, was flooded with "He's fat lolz", "He looks like Eddie Murphy lolz", posts. They must have eventually outnumbered any actual Fat Nade posts by 100 to 1. Still, top bantz though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Playing the race card isn't always a reaction to racism, people use it at times when in dispute with another race when the dispute has nothing to do with race. (E.g Larry Kingston) It's just a phrase that implies someone doing this. Pc Brigade is the same but a differant context. "Pc Brigade and race card are Shan patter lawlz" is worse patter than the phrases used. They really aren't. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 This And very, very much this. The faux bantz is ten times worse bantz than the actual bantz Nade is fat lolz was by far the worst. Any thread started on Nade, for any reason, was flooded with "He's fat lolz", "He looks like Eddie Murphy lolz", posts. They must have eventually outnumbered any actual Fat Nade posts by 100 to 1. Still, top bantz though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 They claim that they are being discriminated against however they are not exactly squeeky clean, from experience they treat people from certain nationalities far inferior than those of their own. Never saw that one coming. Which nationalities? Indians? Poles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Never saw that one coming. Which nationalities? Indians? Poles? I too love a game of 'name a nationality'. Scots? South Africans? Kiribatians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Luckily I am not an ex employee, but I know someone who was 'fortunate' enough to be employed by them. Lets just say that some of their replies on the facebook comments section made by them sum them up.. The owners are bullies who like to threaten and intimidate others to have it their own way, hence high staff turnover, if u look at the tripadvisor reviews, while many are favourable, alot are mentioning poor treatment and management being nasty, speaks for itself. The lie i previously mentioned about cost of employing people is a joke, there is not any, and as i mentioned previously if they do close all staff will magically appear at Hanams. They claim that they are being discriminated against however they are not exactly squeeky clean, from experience they treat people from certain nationalities far inferior than those of their own. There are a few incidents I would love to share with u, that could paint a better picture, of how 'friendly and helpless' they really are (please note sarcasm) but it would get the person I know into bother, and by bother I mean the owners threatening them. All i can end with is, please get this place closed as soon as possible! And that Nawroz is better haha Sound like wankers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 "Pc Brigade and race card are Shan patter lawlz" is worse patter than the phrases used. And very, very much this. The faux bantz is ten times worse bantz than the actual bantz Nade is fat lolz was by far the worst. Any thread started on Nade, for any reason, was flooded with "He's fat lolz", "He looks like Eddie Murphy lolz", posts. They must have eventually outnumbered any actual Fat Nade posts by 100 to 1. Still, top bantz though. Just an off topic view of the forum in general. I realise it has nothing to do with this thread, but it just bugs me a little so I seized on what I thought was someone having a similar opinion . At the risk of straying off topic again, what I was getting at was posts mocking other posts with the bantz, lolz etc style posting. See any Christain Nade thread for examples. Guaranteed post after post of 'Coz Nades iz fat lololzzz' by folk taking the piss out of the once inevitable comment of someone calling Nade fat. Seemingly oblivious to the fact that this repetitive posting on every Nade thread had become far worse patter than what they were originally mocking. That make sense? Probably not. Anyway, ignore me, back on topic...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Chappy Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Too much political correctness these days and we haven't even heard the neighbour's side of the argument. If residents have a an issue with a new business in their neighbourhood then surely they have a right to complain without being called racist. Racism is at it's strongest in the minds of those that stay under the radar, not the ones who come out in the open and make a formal complaint like has happened here. Will be interesting to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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