Kalamazoo Jambo Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (edited) Tom Purdie died in a nursing home in Davidson's Mains on 27th December 1929. He was 75 and it's fair to say that the cause of death was old age. He did not serve in the Great War. Note that since anyone can create an article for Wikipedia with (apparently) almost no background checks of any kind, it should not be your first port of call for reliable information. I'm sure there's a lot of good stuff on there, but the proportion of tendentious rubbish makes it a dangerous minefield - especially for students and schoolkids. True - but you can also update it when you find errors. Which I have Edit - it gives his date of birth as 1951 which means he wouldn't have been 75 when he died - if that date is correct. Do you have his correct birth date? Also, any sources I can cite? Edited September 7, 2013 by Kalamazoo Jambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Alexander Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 True - but you can also update it when you find errors. Which I have Edit - it gives his date of birth as 1951 which means he wouldn't have been 75 when he died - if that date is correct. Do you have his correct birth date? Also, any sources I can cite? Tom was born before the introduction of statutory registration in 1855. However all the other statutory entries concerning him (censuses, marriage certificate) seem to indicate a year of birth of 1853 or (more likely) 1854. The Old Parish Registers for those years don't include his name, but since registration of births wasn't compulsory before 1855, that's not unduly surprising. He first turns up in the 1861 Census, aged 8 and living in Dalkeith - although his family came from the St Cuthbert's district of Edinburgh. That (of course) would make him about 20 when he first started kicking a ball around with his mates - originally (he always said) under rugby rules, before they switched codes toward the end of 1873. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalamazoo Jambo Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Tom was born before the introduction of statutory registration in 1855. However all the other statutory entries concerning him (censuses, marriage certificate) seem to indicate a year of birth of 1853 or (more likely) 1854. The Old Parish Registers for those years don't include his name, but since registration of births wasn't compulsory before 1855, that's not unduly surprising. He first turns up in the 1861 Census, aged 8 and living in Dalkeith - although his family came from the St Cuthbert's district of Edinburgh. That (of course) would make him about 20 when he first started kicking a ball around with his mates - originally (he always said) under rugby rules, before they switched codes toward the end of 1873. Thanks - very interesting. Made some more edits to the Wikipedia page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambali Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 "it should not be your first port of call for reliable information. I'm sure there's a lot of good stuff on there, but the proportion of tendentious rubbish makes it a dangerous minefield - especially for students and schoolkids." Actually it IS a good first port of call. The danger is accepting all Wikipedia content as true. As a first port of call it often points to more reliable source material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allowayjambo1874 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Tom was born before the introduction of statutory registration in 1855. However all the other statutory entries concerning him (censuses, marriage certificate) seem to indicate a year of birth of 1853 or (more likely) 1854. The Old Parish Registers for those years don't include his name, but since registration of births wasn't compulsory before 1855, that's not unduly surprising. He first turns up in the 1861 Census, aged 8 and living in Dalkeith - although his family came from the St Cuthbert's district of Edinburgh. That (of course) would make him about 20 when he first started kicking a ball around with his mates - originally (he always said) under rugby rules, before they switched codes toward the end of 1873. Is St Cuthbert's related to the church just off Lothian Road? (I've never heard of St Cuthbert's area of Edinburgh!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tams bird Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Is St Cuthbert's related to the church just off Lothian Road? (I've never heard of St Cuthbert's area of Edinburgh!) . St Cuthberts on Slateford Road as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroon hills remembered Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 Edinburgh has parish boundaries in which we all live die etc. When a birth or death is registered it is normally shown as the area in which we live. see link http://www.talkingscot.com/rds/city-rds-edin.htm i.e. it's just the parish in which we live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allowayjambo1874 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Edinburgh has parish boundaries in which we all live die etc. When a birth or death is registered it is normally shown as the area in which we live. see link http://www.talkingsc...ty-rds-edin.htm i.e. it's just the parish in which we live. Yeah I get that but I'd never heard of an area called St Cuthbert's and there's no registration parish called st Cuthbert's either! Sorry we're totally off topic, was just curious where it was and I'm guessing it'll have been the church where his family worshipped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroon hills remembered Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 sorry I'm not at my best trying to explain. does this help? http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=parishes+of+edinburgh&qpvt=parishes+of+edinburgh&FORM=IGRE#view=detail&id=355EE60966160CEA71508DDCDE32E821C08805D8&selectedIndex=4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son Of Anarchy Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Am there now. Grave is in better condition than most - the stone is lying horizontally, as it was meant to (I think). All it needs is some Round-up to kill the weeds, and it would be truly beautiful. Graveyard still attractive, not entirely neglected, and you can see the roof of the wheatfield stand from it. Respect to Op for drawing my attention to this, and to Davie and others for addressing it Im going up tomorrow dc. Ive got some roundup weedkiller at home so will get spraying. Will also take flowers for the great man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Alexander Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 "it should not be your first port of call for reliable information. I'm sure there's a lot of good stuff on there, but the proportion of tendentious rubbish makes it a dangerous minefield - especially for students and schoolkids." Actually it IS a good first port of call. The danger is accepting all Wikipedia content as true. As a first port of call it often points to more reliable source material. No, it is a pretty poor first port of call - simply because so many people who think they are consulting a reliable 'online encyclopaedia' don't appreciate just how unreliable many of the entries can be. And therein lies the problem. Especially for students and schoolkids, who are only just beginning to understand the difficulties of undertaking any form of research. With Wikipedia, unless you know something about the subject in the first place, there's no way of evaluating either the reliability of the article or of the sources quoted. The rigorous editorial process that went into assembling (for example) Encyclopaedia Britannica or its many contemporaries at least ensured that all the articles were worthy of a degree of trust. Scotland has some truly world-class free reference libraries and they remain the best starting point for anyone setting out on a research project - both digitally or searching through the pages of a dusty old book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermit the Krog Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Im going up tomorrow dc. Ive got some roundup weedkiller at home so will get spraying. Will also take flowers for the great man. If a jobs worth doing..... Get yourself a pair of gloves and a black bag and get pulling them roots out. (don't think I don't appreciate your efforts, I do. I just know from experience that's the only way to kill weeds) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroon hills remembered Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 No, it is a pretty poor first port of call - simply because so many people who think they are consulting a reliable 'online encyclopaedia' don't appreciate just how unreliable many of the entries can be. And therein lies the problem. Especially for students and schoolkids, who are only just beginning to understand the difficulties of undertaking any form of research. With Wikipedia, unless you know something about the subject in the first place, there's no way of evaluating either the reliability of the article or of the sources quoted. The rigorous editorial process that went into assembling (for example) Encyclopaedia Britannica or its many contemporaries at least ensured that all the articles were worthy of a degree of trust. Scotland has some truly world-class free reference libraries and they remain the best starting point for anyone setting out on a research project - both digitally or searching through the pages of a dusty old book. Sorry Mr Alexander I agree with Jambali. There is absolutely nothing wrong with making Wiki you first port of call provided you are well aware of it's limitations. As you will be well aware history is a subjective area so to dismiss anything out of hand may be considered by some to be arrogant or narrow minded or both. |The danger lies with those who believe what they read unquestioning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroon hills remembered Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 Sorry about that. My IT skills are not what they should be. In post #63 my reply starts from "Sorry Mr Alexander...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Great thread, some of the knowledge you guys have is frightening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 The images at post no 13 show Alexander Walker's name on the headstone. Alex was Bobby's brother and he also played for Hearts. The headstone states he died in a military hospital in 1916. Anyone know what the cause of death was, whether he saw any military action and what Battalion he was in? If anyone does visit BW's grave, take a look at the gravestones close by. For example, I do recall seeing James Speedie's name on a headstone just a few paces away and I am sure there was at least one other name with close ties to the club on another grave nearby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Alexander Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 And I accept your point (both of you). If you're aware of the site's shortcomings, that's all very well. But how many folk are aware that their use of Wikipedia is likely to yield unreliable or tendentious results? Contributors to traditional offline encyclopaedia are selected on the basis of expertise measured by a whole host of objective criteria. It's true that even these contributors may prove to be subjective or to reflect only one narrow view of their field or discipline. But Wikipedia is just a bit too 'open' in its acceptance of anonymous articles and too ready to trust to the online public to rectify (correctly or otherwise) perceived mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroon hills remembered Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 And I accept your point (both of you). If you're aware of the site's shortcomings, that's all very well. But how many folk are aware that their use of Wikipedia is likely to yield unreliable or tendentious results? Contributors to traditional offline encyclopaedia are selected on the basis of expertise measured by a whole host of objective criteria. It's true that even these contributors may prove to be subjective or to reflect only one narrow view of their field or discipline. But Wikipedia is just a bit too 'open' in its acceptance of anonymous articles and too ready to trust to the online public to rectify (correctly or otherwise) perceived mistakes. I think I'll draw my contribution to a close after this. We could go on all night on this subject. Both Jambali and myself are coming at the argument from the view that you have to start somewhere and provided that you are fully aware of it's limitations then there is absolutely nothing wrong with starting at Wiki. You are saying that not everybody is aware of Wiki's limitations so better to start somewhere else. I agree with you however we are not talking about third parties we are talking about ourselves. Although I don't know Jambali I'm prepared to bet that like myself he is a pretty normal guy who like myself is aware of crap when he hears it. So I'll let it rest there but one last question. I've read your book twice and rate it better than the Royle and Gilbert books on the Great War however I don't know you any better than I know a contributor to Wiki, so why should I believe you and not them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agm24 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I think I'll draw my contribution to a close after this. We could go on all night on this subject. Both Jambali and myself are coming at the argument from the view that you have to start somewhere and provided that you are fully aware of it's limitations then there is absolutely nothing wrong with starting at Wiki. You are saying that not everybody is aware of Wiki's limitations so better to start somewhere else. I agree with you however we are not talking about third parties we are talking about ourselves. Although I don't know Jambali I'm prepared to bet that like myself he is a pretty normal guy who like myself is aware of crap when he hears it. So I'll let it rest there but one last question. I've read your book twice and rate it better than the Royle and Gilbert books on the Great War however I don't know you any better than I know a contributor to Wiki, so why should I believe you and not them? He spent 12 years researching the subject before writing that book. That should give you all the credence that you need. Therefore, bit of a detestable question to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroon hills remembered Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 He spent 12 years researching the subject before writing that book. That should give you all the credence that you need. Therefore, bit of a detestable question to ask. I see so it's fair game for him to have a dig at me (#49) yet it's "detestable" if I bite back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Alexander Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I see so it's fair game for him to have a dig at me (#49) yet it's "detestable" if I bite back? No dig or 'bite' intended, as it happens. I might more correctly (or impersonally) have written 'one's first port of call', but then I didn't expect to encounter such a degree of over-sensitivity on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agm24 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I see so it's fair game for him to have a dig at me (#49) yet it's "detestable" if I bite back? You're arguing with yourself mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son Of Anarchy Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 If a jobs worth doing..... Get yourself a pair of gloves and a black bag and get pulling them roots out. (don't think I don't appreciate your efforts, I do. I just know from experience that's the only way to kill weeds) The reason i have some weed killer left is because i dont do gloves on weed uprooting......ever. Hope to see you around 11am fully equiped though. I will spray the bits you miss lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I use Wiki to keep track of ex-Hearts players or players who have just joined Hearts as it generally gets club changes correct and are substantiated by external links. Looking at the Heart's page It is pretty badly written both in tone (more like a fanzine in places) and in (subjective) content a couple of examples Heart of Midlothian are the oldest football club in the Scottish capital, Third Edinburgh Rifle Volunteers possibly are the oldest. They are the earliest Edinburgh club reported in a Newspaper The club's famous 1957?58 league winning side, led up front by Jimmy Wardhaugh, Willie Bauld and Alfie Conn, Sr., who were affectionately known as The Terrible Trio, set the record for the number of goals scored in a league campaign (132) and became the only side to finish a season with a goal difference exceeding 100 (+103). That is incorrect Jimmy Wardhaugh played in 30 league games but Willie played in only 9 and Alfie in only 5. http://londonhearts.com/scores/sea/1957-58.html#app Jimmy was top League scorer with 28 but Jimmy Murray with 27 and Alex Young 24 scored far more goals than Willie 5 and Alfie 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Im going up tomorrow dc. Ive got some roundup weedkiller at home so will get spraying. Will also take flowers for the great man. Let me know if you're definitely going cause it was my intention to hea up as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son Of Anarchy Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Let me know if you're definitely going cause it was my intention to hea up as well. Not going up too early,maybe 11am. Will post here 30 mins before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Not going up too early,maybe 11am. Will post here 30 mins before Ok mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc-jambo Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I just mentioned Round-up cos it will kill the weeds down to the roots, without pulling up the gravel that they're in. Anyway respect and thanks to you all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son Of Anarchy Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Thats me heading up,even managed to get maroon n white flowers. May have to pull some weeds out as started shooting the garden weeds like a John Wayne western this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tams bird Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Hope you have your camera. Is it easy to find ? I will pop up in a few weeks to make sure its still ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) Im just here as well mate just arrived. I'll let you know about easy to find. Very is the answer. Its actually not looking too bad compare to others. Edited September 8, 2013 by Jamboelite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 (edited) Thanks to Gordy Crazy Jambo for coming up with flowers this morning and his pistol style weed killer. I'll post up some pics in a minute when i can work out how to do it via mobile. Where is the option to upload from mobile as i have them on photobucket? Edited September 8, 2013 by Jamboelite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son Of Anarchy Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Hope you have your camera. Is it easy to find ? I will pop up in a few weeks to make sure its still ok. Yeh real easy bud. Stand at main gate and imagine taking a shortcut to tynie and you will pass it.How apt is that? Jamboelite will post up pics and I have to say what a difference now. We shall see how davy gets on at the meeting next week but it wont take much to keep it in a befitting way for both Alex and Bobby. We could do with some industrial cleaner for the headstone but overall looks grand now. Thanks to Kev for taking the time and really nice to have met you mate. HHGH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Good to meet you Gordy will keep in touch about the ST when I have one spare. Hope people feel this is more befitting the great man and as noted it just needs a bit of TLC to keep it in shape also as Gordy says a bit of stone cleaner will bring this up better than the stuff we had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Good job lads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalamazoo Jambo Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 What an amazing job. Well done folks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poultry Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Well done guys really good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalamazoo Jambo Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I think 'before' and 'after' pictures show what a difference you guys made. Before... After... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Would be good to see hearts mention this on the website or twitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobblers Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Great job. Well done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Well done fellas. Absolutely brilliant job befitting a club legend. p.s. Gordy, I've got some weeds round the side of the house.......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franklin Delano Bluth Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Really good job. Well done gentlemen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Well done fellas. Absolutely brilliant job befitting a club legend. p.s. Gordy, I've got some weeds round the side of the house.......................... If you want to have an adult pretending to be John Wayne with a weedkiller in his hand he's your man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agm24 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 What a brilliant gesture guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks said no Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Well done guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboGraham Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Well done guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermit the Krog Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Well done boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldChampions1902 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Congratulations gentlemen! A fantastic gesture and a job well done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 If you want to have an adult pretending to be John Wayne with a weedkiller in his hand he's your man. Paints a picture! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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