Jump to content

4 clubs want clarity on SPL rules / UBIG now declared insolvent (merged)


Gregory House M.D.

Recommended Posts

Gregory House M.D.

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4928156/Jammy-dodger-probe-into-Hearts-crisis.html

 

Possibly the worst article yet. The whole article debunked by his own last line on the subject. :facepalm:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson

OK, board poll. Who thinks Hearts are going into admin this summer?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

tartofmidlothian

I predict the 4 clubs are Dundee, St Mirren, Hibs and Kilmarnock.

 

FTFY.

 

I can't wait until we're back on an even keel and able to ram the boot in when one of these ###### hits a sticky patch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Jammy Dodger Probe"

 

JAMMY DODGER PROBE. Sakes. What a bunch of bloody morons.

 

Anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if the general gist was true.

It's not like we haven't all been puzzling over the same thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson

jammie_dodger.jpg

 

I'd quite like to probe these to be honest. Mmm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

mulleted_jambo

I predict the 4 clubs are Dundee, St Mirren, Hibs and Dundee United.

I would have guessed Kilmarnock myself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geoff Kilpatrick

OK, board poll. Who thinks Hearts are going into admin this summer?

 

I don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Magic Numbers

Why is it any of their business? I hate that we are hated so much. I get it that Dundee will want to squirm out of relegation, but really, they deserve to go down - least points over the season. End of story. Why the clamour to kick us when we are down & clearly fighting not only for our SPL "status" but also for the very club itself. I ******* hate Scottish football clubs other than Hearts with a passion unrivalled. Dundee shouldn't even have been in the SPL in the 1st place, only got there as the result of financial meltdown, now they want to do it again? Do one I say. Parasites.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could understand Dundee getting in on this idea but the other three culprits are just snitchy wee buggers.

Not surprised in the slightest by this news tbh.

 

Can anyone remind me who is currently on the SPL board? As in who exactly would be responsible for interpreting this rule and deciding whether or not it applies to us?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geoff Kilpatrick

Thankfully Bobo fecked up the link so I haven't read it and won't do so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson

Why is it any of their business? I hate that we are hated so much. I get it that Dundee will want to squirm out of relegation, but really, they deserve to go down - least points over the season. End of story. Why the clamour to kick us when we are down & clearly fighting not only for our SPL "status" but also for the very club itself. I ******* hate Scottish football clubs other than Hearts with a passion unrivalled. Dundee shouldn't even have been in the SPL in the 1st place, only got there as the result of financial meltdown, now they want to do it again? Do one I say. Parasites.

 

Because they're suspicious. If the roles were reversed, so would we probably be.

 

Last summer, Rangers fans felt they were fighting for their very club itself - and the same arguments were trotted out by them. Didn't matter that the club was liquidated; to them, it was still Rangers, and in their eyes, it was still being kicked when it was down.

 

If these clubs' concerns are vindicated - that we do go into admin in the summer - there'll be hell to pay. Because in those circumstances, we'd look almost unbelievably cynical.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why is it any of their business? I hate that we are hated so much. I get it that Dundee will want to squirm out of relegation, but really, they deserve to go down - least points over the season. End of story. Why the clamour to kick us when we are down & clearly fighting not only for our SPL "status" but also for the very club itself. I ******* hate Scottish football clubs other than Hearts with a passion unrivalled. Dundee shouldn't even have been in the SPL in the 1st place, only got there as the result of financial meltdown, now they want to do it again? Do one I say. Parasites.

 

Dundee I get, the others are obviously just preparing to go down the "Hearts have benefited as a result of financial mismanagement and this has been to our disadvantage" line. In other words, UBIG allowed us to spend money we couldn't afford as a standalone business on players and deprive other clubs of their services by offering more cash.

 

Edit: There's also the financial element - higher league finishes as a result of having the services of better players, cup wins, profit from lucrative European fixtures.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geoff Kilpatrick

 

 

Because they're suspicious. If the roles were reversed, so would we probably be.

 

Last summer, Rangers fans felt they were fighting for their very club itself - and the same arguments were trotted out by them. Didn't matter that the club was liquidated; to them, it was still Rangers, and in their eyes, it was still being kicked when it was down.

 

If these clubs' concerns are vindicated - that we do go into admin in the summer - there'll be hell to pay. Because in those circumstances, we'd look almost unbelievably cynical.

How? There are consequences for administration - a points deduction. The SFA seem to be following up with transfer embargoes, which is fair enough (and the main reason I believe that we will avoid admin because a prospective purchaser still wants a team on the pitch).

 

Where the RFCRIP thing fell down was on their liquidation when the SFA and SPL conspired to parachute Sevco into the league, stopped only by a supporter led outcry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because they're suspicious. If the roles were reversed, so would we probably be.

 

Last summer, Rangers fans felt they were fighting for their very club itself - and the same arguments were trotted out by them. Didn't matter that the club was liquidated; to them, it was still Rangers, and in their eyes, it was still being kicked when it was down.

 

If these clubs' concerns are vindicated - that we do go into admin in the summer - there'll be hell to pay. Because in those circumstances, we'd look almost unbelievably cynical.

 

The timing thing doesn't concern me so much. There isn't another club who wouldn't adopt strategic timing if they were in a position to do so.

Hearts have been reshaping the business and surviving on their own steam for some months now, it's clear to anyone watching that every effort has been made to adopt a more sustainable approach. Not that it'll count for much, but it's something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

tartofmidlothian

Why is it any of their business? I hate that we are hated so much. I get it that Dundee will want to squirm out of relegation, but really, they deserve to go down - least points over the season. End of story. Why the clamour to kick us when we are down & clearly fighting not only for our SPL "status" but also for the very club itself. I ******* hate Scottish football clubs other than Hearts with a passion unrivalled. Dundee shouldn't even have been in the SPL in the 1st place, only got there as the result of financial meltdown, now they want to do it again? Do one I say. Parasites.

 

Nice. Great post. Definitely up there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

super_vlad

Reading the sun, then getting upset about it!!

 

Feck me, it is Groundhog Day again!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ToadKiller Dog

Not really interested in 4 clubs acting out of self interest that's what clubs do .

I am sure we will give Dungcaster our information like all other clubs .

If we are still due players money from last season as Ian Black seems to think then we will get our transfer ban continued .

As for goings on in Lithuania not really their business and its not as if anybody as yet knows the outcome .

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson

How? There are consequences for administration - a points deduction. The SFA seem to be following up with transfer embargoes, which is fair enough (and the main reason I believe that we will avoid admin because a prospective purchaser still wants a team on the pitch).

 

Where the RFCRIP thing fell down was on their liquidation when the SFA and SPL conspired to parachute Sevco into the league, stopped only by a supporter led outcry.

 

Yes - because the fans believed their club was being kicked while it was down. The whys and wherefores didn't really come into it.

 

Have Hearts been guilty of, to use the topical parlance, financial doping more than any other Scottish club except Rangers over the last few years? Yes, we have. Would we have achieved anything tangible had we not spent miles and miles beyond our natural means: including even last season? No, we almost certainly wouldn't.

 

So the perspective of other clubs will naturally be: you benefited from this, and screwed our chances in the process. Now you have to accept the consequences. Just as that was all of our perspective in Rangers' case too. And of course, in the aftermath of the Rangers saga, rules were brought in by the SPL - and agreed by all clubs, including our own - regarding the finances of all member clubs. Naturally, given the meltdown of our majority shareholder's bank - and his own personal financial meltdown, for that matter - guarantees are now being sought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geoff Kilpatrick

 

 

Yes - because the fans believed their club was being kicked while it was down. The whys and wherefores didn't really come into it.

 

Have Hearts been guilty of, to use the topical parlance, financial doping more than any other Scottish club except Rangers over the last few years? Yes, we have. Would we have achieved anything tangible had we not spent miles and miles beyond our natural means: including even last season? No, we almost certainly wouldn't.

 

So the perspective of other clubs will naturally be: you benefited from this, and screwed our chances in the process. Now you have to accept the consequences. Just as that was all of our perspective in Rangers' case too. And of course, in the aftermath of the Rangers saga, rules were brought in by the SPL - and agreed by all clubs, including our own - regarding the finances of all member clubs. Naturally, given the meltdown of our majority shareholder's bank - and his own personal financial meltdown, for that matter - guarantees are now being sought.

What guarantee can any Scottish club give though? Most are running due to bank largesse, albeit with more punitive conditions than we have enjoyed until recently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson

What guarantee can any Scottish club give though? Most are running due to bank largesse, albeit with more punitive conditions than we have enjoyed until recently.

 

As you rightly argue very often, debt only becomes a real problem when it can no longer be serviced; and also when it's repayable short term, rather than long term.

 

How many SPL clubs are in such a situation?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes - because the fans believed their club was being kicked while it was down. The whys and wherefores didn't really come into it.

 

Have Hearts been guilty of, to use the topical parlance, financial doping more than any other Scottish club except Rangers over the last few years? Yes, we have. Would we have achieved anything tangible had we not spent miles and miles beyond our natural means: including even last season? No, we almost certainly wouldn't.

 

So the perspective of other clubs will naturally be: you benefited from this, and screwed our chances in the process. Now you have to accept the consequences. Just as that was all of our perspective in Rangers' case too. And of course, in the aftermath of the Rangers saga, rules were brought in by the SPL - and agreed by all clubs, including our own - regarding the finances of all member clubs. Naturally, given the meltdown of our majority shareholder's bank - and his own personal financial meltdown, for that matter - guarantees are now being sought.

 

Would we have achieved similar? Two cups? Maybe not. It's not outwith the realms of possibility that we wouldn't have won at least one, especially when you consider that we're not the only non-OF club to do that in recent years. Would we have achieved second place? Nah. But would we have roughly the same league placings in other years - well, yes, why not?

 

And out of interest, which other clubs have ownership structures which means they'd fit within the criteria of this rule? Anyone know?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geoff Kilpatrick

As you rightly argue very often, debt only becomes a real problem when it can no longer be serviced; and also when it's repayable short term, rather than long term.

 

How many SPL clubs are in such a situation?

 

None, including us.

 

The point HMFC have been making is that we are currently meeting all obligations.

 

Now, we all know that Ukio are in meltdown and UBIG will follow shortly afterwards (although there is no indication of this happening yet). Whoever ends up holding the parcel will have to take a haircut (assuming there is an offer) to retrieve something for those assets. So I am failing to see what the issue is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson

None, including us.

 

The point HMFC have been making is that we are currently meeting all obligations.

 

Now, we all know that Ukio are in meltdown and UBIG will follow shortly afterwards (although there is no indication of this happening yet). Whoever ends up holding the parcel will have to take a haircut (assuming there is an offer) to retrieve something for those assets. So I am failing to see what the issue is.

 

There's an immediate issue if and when that happens - unless UBIG cease to be our owners in the meantime.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geoff Kilpatrick

There's an immediate issue if and when that happens - unless UBIG cease to be our owners in the meantime.

 

Potentially, hence why last week's email from FoH was encouraging, even to a cynic like me. If you want HMFC to continue to be a going concern, you need to agree a deal of Tynie plus x for shares and the debt prior to no one knowing who owns what in the great spinning plate game that is the Vlad empire.

 

So, until such things happen, I hope David Southern tells the likes of Rod the tache to GTF!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson

Potentially, hence why last week's email from FoH was encouraging, even to a cynic like me. If you want HMFC to continue to be a going concern, you need to agree a deal of Tynie plus x for shares and the debt prior to no one knowing who owns what in the great spinning plate game that is the Vlad empire.

 

So, until such things happen, I hope David Southern tells the likes of Rod the tache to GTF!

 

Agree with all of that - but it's abundantly clear it'll take many months, conceivably years, for FoH to build up the readies required: unless either they themselves come up with a huge lump sum, or are able to swoop amid the circumstances you describe and buy the club for next to nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

portobellojambo1

"Jammy Dodger Probe"

 

JAMMY DODGER PROBE. Sakes. What a bunch of bloody morons.

 

Anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if the general gist was true.

It's not like we haven't all been puzzling over the same thing.

 

The only bit I'd be tempted to question is if there are indeed 4 SPL clubs asking such questions. When it was announced that UKIO Bankas were appealing bankruptcy there was a thread on here, and one of the questions asked in that thread was along the lines of 'is this a delaying tactic to get us beyond a cut off date and avoid potential points deduction and resultant relegation this season'. Maybe it is because it is The Sun, which I wouldn't wipe my backside with, but I would not rule out the content of the article being based around that thread, but with not a lot of additional truth in it, i.e. the existence of 4 clubs who have raised this matter. It wouldn't be the first article to ever appear in a paper that could be traced back to a thread on here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geoff Kilpatrick

Agree with all of that - but it's abundantly clear it'll take many months, conceivably years, for FoH to build up the readies required: unless either they themselves come up with a huge lump sum, or are able to swoop amid the circumstances you describe and buy the club for next to nothing.

 

Well, that's the bit that keeps my scepticism about FoH being a well meaning platitude. Are they prepared to fund a takeover prior to being 'paid back' by the fans, the only feasible way of doing so? Unless they want an insolvency event which could get very messy and end up in liquidation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

shaun.lawson

Well, that's the bit that keeps my scepticism about FoH being a well meaning platitude. Are they prepared to fund a takeover prior to being 'paid back' by the fans, the only feasible way of doing so? Unless they want an insolvency event which could get very messy and end up in liquidation.

 

It's a bit of a catch-22 really. They may well only be able to get the club if we - or more specifically, the parent company - suffer an insolvency event first.

 

One thing though. Above, you state that you don't think we'll go into admin this summer, and that you can't see what the issue is in terms of these clubs supposedly seeking clarification about our finances.

 

Geoff - how can there be "no issue" when we owe a substantial proportion of debt - which if it was repayable immediately, would instantly bankrupt us - to a company currently appealing against being placed into bankruptcy?!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geoff Kilpatrick

It's a bit of a catch-22 really. They may well only be able to get the club if we - or more specifically, the parent company - suffer an insolvency event first.

 

One thing though. Above, you state that you don't think we'll go into admin this summer, and that you can't see what the issue is in terms of these clubs supposedly seeking clarification about our finances.

 

Geoff - how can there be "no issue" when we owe a substantial proportion of debt - which if it was repayable immediately, would instantly bankrupt us - to a company currently appealing against being placed into bankruptcy?!

 

Shaun, it isn't repayable immediately.

 

When Northern Rock went breasts heavenwards, were hundreds of thousands of mortgages called in and made immediately repayable? No.

 

The problem Ukio's liquidator has is how to manage those assets. At the moment, HMFC are paying the interest due on the loan as the agreement says. That's the point. The liquidator has far bigger headaches to deal with than HMFC, particularly as UBIG itself is a creditor of Ukio and Ukio is a creditor of UBIG.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest oldcastlerock2012

Ignoring the ins and outs of why clubs would want clarification and what clarification they would want (the bank that loaned us - or our owners - some money went bust basically), and the fact that most SPL clubs are also in debt (ie spending money they don't have) if The Sun knew there were four clubs they would know which clubs and there is no reason at all why they wouldn't name them (or even just one) as it would be a much better story. So there may well be four or more clubs that want to know more about Hearts but the Sun obviously doesn't know which ones and so has definitely made up this story.

 

I don't know why people read that rag - it's made up nonsense and it's only going to get worse as we move into the close season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't see 2 times in administration Dundee being one of the complainants.

 

I can. Any club that can appoint a roaster like John Brown as a manager, especially after last year's antics, are capable of anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

I can. Any club that can appoint a roaster like John Brown as a manager, especially after last year's antics, are capable of anything.

On mobile and am not using sarcastic smilies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

On mobile and am not using sarcastic smilies.

 

Ah , I see. Should have realised to be honest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hoof.hearted

Dunfermline weren't allowed to stay up last year even though old rangers crocked it, so no matter what.........that scum from Dundee are going down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dunfermline weren't allowed to stay up last year even though old rangers crocked it, so no matter what.........that scum from Dundee are going down.

 

Dunfermline still finished bottom which would be the main difference, but the whole thing was handled shambolically and I felt sorry for Dundee. I agree with Redm though, there is no other club that would not not use "strategic timing", as the old Rangers did over a year ago now, if faced with the same issues as ourselves. There are a lot of questions to be asked but it wont be the SFA or SPL that finds out the answers.

 

While Hibs may feel like an emotional certainty for this its not really their style and I would suspect the guy Thomson at Dundee United before Petrie. I do agree that Dundee, St Mirren and Kilmarnock seem the likely choices. We may yet be surprised.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rudolf's Mate

Reading the sun, then getting upset about it!!

 

Feck me, it is Groundhog Day again!

 

This^

 

Last time I bought the Sun was Monday 20th May 2012 and for one obvious reason!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When Northern Rock went breasts heavenwards, were hundreds of thousands of mortgages called in and made immediately repayable? No.

 

 

The Government nationalised Northern Rock to avoid the scenario wherby they had to enter administration, which prevented the loans being called in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If they had the balls to speak publicly I would have more respect for their position. Assuming this is true.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing is, we have not annouced we are going into administration because we are not in administration, so we have not delayed any annoucement at all.

 

If we are delaying going into administration, that is a different matter, but until it actually happens, there is nothing to announce.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Charlie-Brown

We will be sold/bought in the forthcoming weeks, the current situation is in nobody's best interest neither is an insolvency event for buyers or sellers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Surely these clubs will have the clarification they need about Hearts after our AGM? Till then they can GTF.

 

As far as I can see, all the club can do is continue to meet its liabilities and wait for due process to happen in Lithuania. Only when the fate of both our lender and parent company have been decided by the authorities there will we know where we stand. We might have new owners before that happens.

 

Move along, nothing to see. Yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bowmans_Boot

Slow news day at the Sun clearly. I expect quite a lot of "exclusives" and "revelations" about us (& probably Rangers) in the coming weeks as there is nothing else to write about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Petrie is one of them a bitter man.

 

Going to make it better watching his torn pus when hibs get stuffed in the final once again.

 

Another 5-1 please, ya celtic fuds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Treasurer

Dundee I get, the others are obviously just preparing to go down the "Hearts have benefited as a result of financial mismanagement and this has been to our disadvantage" line. In other words, UBIG allowed us to spend money we couldn't afford as a standalone business on players and deprive other clubs of their services by offering more cash.

 

Edit: There's also the financial element - higher league finishes as a result of having the services of better players, cup wins, profit from lucrative European fixtures.

As virtually every club in the country is making a loss year after year, surely all are guilty of "spending money they can't afford".
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.



×
×
  • Create New...