** World Snooker ** - Official Thread

[Angry Haggis]

Ronnie O's snooker seems to be above every one else..the only person than can beat him is himself really. Could be argued that he is fresher from bit competing in the last year but IMO he is just ahead of every one else. Interesting stats though against Trump that his Safety % was less than Trumps but pot success was higher - shows which stat counts at this level.

[Alan Johnson]

Didn't get to see any of yesterday's stuff beyond the first frame of Trump v O'Sullivan. Looks like I missed a good 'un.

 

What's the story with Ronnie making an 'improper gesture'? Was he doing nob stuff with his cue?

 

What did he actually do? There's a clip on the BBC site but they hardly explain it clearly.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/snooker/22407436

[Chaps]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/snooker/22413601

 

Same old slavering crap from Ronnie.

 

Face it you were never going to retire, you say it every year.

 

[Harry Palmer]

Ramjet Ronnie will skoosh the final.

 

The other semi has been brutal to watch, really really shite.

[The Merse]

Looks like it'll be Hawkins.

 

Will be over by Monday afternoon.

[Maroon Sailor]

 

 

 

What did he actually do? There's a clip on the BBC site but they hardly explain it clearly.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/snooker/22407436

 

He rubbed his cue up and down his leg giving the impression of a five knuckle shuffle.

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

Is that 8 in a row now? Walden has blown it.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Hawkins

 

 

I'm going for 18-0.

[Chester™]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...nooker/22413601

 

Same old slavering crap from Ronnie.

 

 

It is.

 

I was discussing this with a mate of mine and he's very much of the opinion it does quite a bit of harm to the game too.

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

Hawkins

 

 

I'm going for 18-0.

 

Come on.

 

Ronnie will have a breakdown at 17-0 and give him a frame.

[shaun.lawson]

It is.

 

I was discussing this with a mate of mine and he's very much of the opinion it does quite a bit of harm to the game too.

 

It does. Absolutely it does. That's why Steve Davis, who knows Ronnie well, didn't mince his words the other day.

 

But... O'Sullivan has bipolar disorder. And his comments from one week to the next are literally bipolar. I'm sure he means every word of what he says at any given moment - then feels completely differently only days later. It's standard stuff actually: it's just that most people with bipolar disorder aren't hugely successful sportsmen who have to give press conferences and have microphones shoved in their faces all the time.

[Chester™]

It does. Absolutely it does. That's why Steve Davis, who knows Ronnie well, didn't mince his words the other day.

 

But... O'Sullivan has bipolar disorder. And his comments from one week to the next are literally bipolar. I'm sure he means every word of what he says at any given moment - then feels completely differently only days later. It's standard stuff actually: it's just that most people with bipolar disorder aren't hugely successful sportsmen who have to give press conferences and have microphones shoved in their faces all the time.

 

As sympathetic as I am to mental health issues (I battle with my own), he isnt the only one. He should have people doing the press conferences for him etc. Plus I've no doubt, he can be quite calculated in what he says.

[scottg71]

The final could easily be 18-0

[Cade]

Ronnie wins: "I don't wanna play snooker no more, it's no fun". Ronnie loses : "I don't wanna play snooker no more, it's no fun". Every year we hear the same old shecht from him and people still lap it up.

[shaun.lawson]

And yes, a procession in the final looms: the only hope for (presumably) Hawkins being that Ronnie somehow beats himself, as he has done intermittently in the past, albeit never in world finals.

 

O'Sullivan is played four, won four in world finals. Two of those were processions; a third, last year, was a runaway in the end too. The only exception was when he met his fellow all-time great, John Higgins, in 2001, and won 18-14.

 

Yet reaching the world final in the Crucible era have been Ali Carter (twice); Graeme Dott (three times; extraordinarily, he even won the thing once, an unbelievable achievement); Nigel Bond; even JWL's fave, Perrie Mans, who couldn't control the cue ball or make a break over 40 to save his life.

 

Hawkins getting to the final isn't that unusual; it's most comparable to Bond doing so in 1995, I'd say. Inevitably, Bond was no match for the greatest player of all time, Stephen Hendry, and fell 18-9; and against O'Sullivan, the only current player even in the argument as to who the GOAT is, Hawkins' fate will be similar. 18-8, I reckon. That's hardly a disgrace, though - and it doesn't make him an 'imposter' either. Jimmy White, John Parrott and Cliff Thorburn all lost the final with a session to spare.

[Chester™]

The only exception was when he met his fellow all-time great, John Higgins, in 2001, and won 18-14.

 

O'Sullivan, the only current player even in the argument as to who the GOAT

 

There isnt even an argument. Thats just you being a blawearie..

 

In terms of Higgins (the John variety), I've discussed this with a number of friends, of all ages. With there being no contest of Stephen Hendry being the GOAT, the question invariably asked is 'who's the best player you've/we've seen after Hendry?'. Nearly unanimously, the answer has been John Higgins.

[shaun.lawson]

There isnt even an argument. Thats just you being a blawearie..

 

In terms of Higgins (the John variety), I've discussed this with a number of friends, of all ages. With there being no contest of Stephen Hendry being the GOAT, the question invariably asked is 'who's the best player you've/we've seen after Hendry?'. Nearly unanimously, the answer has been John Higgins.

 

With Ronnie about to win a fifth world title, and him having won the only world final between the two of them (the only world final which either of them have lost too), he has to move definitively above John this weekend. Assuming he wins the final, of course. He doesn't have great huge smudges on his record like losing to 52 year old Steve Davis or a thrashing by a 13 years past his best Stephen Hendry at the Crucible either.

 

At his best, Higgins was an unbelievable matchplayer. But O'Sullivan wins many, many more cheap frames: his margin for error is greater, because he's better.

[Chester™]

With Ronnie about to win a fifth world title, and him having won the only world final between the two of them (the only world final which either of them have lost too), he has to move definitively above John this weekend. Assuming he wins the final, of course. He doesn't have great huge smudges on his record like losing to 52 year old Steve Davis or a thrashing by a 13 years past his best Stephen Hendry at the Crucible either.

 

At his best, Higgins was an unbelievable matchplayer. But O'Sullivan wins many, many more cheap frames: his margin for error is greater, because he's better.

 

Aye and no.

 

Its not like you to side with an arsehole.

 

TBH, its a difficult situation. Ronnie is the flair, John is the steady. As an all round choice, I think John is better but again, its down to personal preference.

 

The only agreement is who the GOAT is. And TBH, Ronnie (or another) may equal the WC's, but I dont think that will change IMO.

[shaun.lawson]

Aye and no.

 

Its not like you to side with an arsehole.

 

TBH, its a difficult situation. Ronnie is the flair, John is the steady. As an all round choice, I think John is better but again, its down to personal preference.

 

The only agreement is who the GOAT is. And TBH, Ronnie (or another) may equal the WC's, but I dont think that will change IMO.

 

If he did equal Hendry's seven - which I can't see in any case - that'd turn it into a very interesting debate indeed. Because while like you, I'd still side towards Hendry, in that event, his lack of longevity would suddenly count against him.

 

Hendry's seven world titles spanned only 9 years. O'Sullivan's five, if he wins this weekend, will have spanned 12 years; and Higgins' four span 13 years. Even Davis gets extra credit for remaining so competitive for fully 21 years after his prime.

 

Here's how I view the GOAT list now, though:

 

The Ten Greatest Snooker Players of All Time

 

1. Stephen Hendry (Scotland)

 

2. Steve Davis (England)

 

3. Joe Davis (England)

 

4. Ronnie O'Sullivan (England)

 

5. John Higgins (Scotland)

 

6. Ray Reardon (Wales)

 

7. Alex Higgins (Northern Ireland)

 

8. Mark Williams (Wales)

 

9. Jimmy White (England)

 

10. John Parrott (England)*

 

* but 10th place is wide open, and anyone's guess really.

[The Merse]

John Higgins is a sleekit bar steward.

 

Ronnie streets ahead in the all time rankings between the two.

 

Mini comeback from Walden.

 

Hope he can turn it round, don't like Hawkins but i have no idea why!

 

Just i type, Walden breaks down

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

16-14 at the moment.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

If he did equal Hendry's seven - which I can't see in any case - that'd turn it into a very interesting debate indeed. Because while like you, I'd still side towards Hendry, in that event, his lack of longevity would suddenly count against him.

 

Hendry's seven world titles spanned only 9 years. O'Sullivan's five, if he wins this weekend, will have spanned 12 years; and Higgins' four span 13 years. Even Davis gets extra credit for remaining so competitive for fully 21 years after his prime.

 

Here's how I view the GOAT list now, though:

 

The Ten Greatest Snooker Players of All Time

 

1. Stephen Hendry (Scotland)

 

2. Steve Davis (England)

 

3. Joe Davis (England)

 

4. Ronnie O'Sullivan (England)

 

5. John Higgins (Scotland)

 

6. Ray Reardon (Wales)

 

7. Alex Higgins (Northern Ireland)

 

8. Mark Williams (Wales)

 

9. Jimmy White (England)

 

10. John Parrott (England)*

 

* but 10th place is wide open, and anyone's guess really.

 

The only thing I'd say on this is that (IMO) if Davis, Hendry and O'Sullivan had all been at their peak at exactly the same time, O'Sullivan would have won the most world titles.

[The Merse]

Hawkins really has had the run of the ballls today.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Hawkins really has had the run of the ballls today.

 

He looks like a ned.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Hawkins wins.

 

A bit like Margaret Beckett getting into FHM's top 100.

[Chester™]

If he did equal Hendry's seven - which I can't see in any case - that'd turn it into a very interesting debate indeed. Because while like you, I'd still side towards Hendry, in that event, his lack of longevity would suddenly count against him.

 

Hendry's seven world titles spanned only 9 years. O'Sullivan's five, if he wins this weekend, will have spanned 12 years; and Higgins' four span 13 years. Even Davis gets extra credit for remaining so competitive for fully 21 years after his prime.

 

Here's how I view the GOAT list now, though:

 

The Ten Greatest Snooker Players of All Time

 

1. Stephen Hendry (Scotland)

 

2. Steve Davis (England)

 

3. Joe Davis (England)

 

4. Ronnie O'Sullivan (England)

 

5. John Higgins (Scotland)

 

6. Ray Reardon (Wales)

 

7. Alex Higgins (Northern Ireland)

 

8. Mark Williams (Wales)

 

9. Jimmy White (England)

 

10. John Parrott (England)*

 

* but 10th place is wide open, and anyone's guess really.

 

Some 'debatable' choices.

 

Williams and Parrott? Are you pished?

 

Regardless of 'if Ronnie gets 7+', there is still no question Stephen Hendry is the GOAT.

 

 

The only thing I'd say on this is that (IMO) if Davis, Hendry and O'Sullivan had all been at their peak at exactly the same time, O'Sullivan would have won the most world titles.

 

Cant agree. Hendry at it all and beyond the table too. He scared opponents in the way no other player (that I can remember) did.

 

(I appreciate I might look back on this a bit fondly but FFS, in his pomp he was absolutely sensational).

[Maroon Sailor]

Hawkins might get under Ronnie's skin in the final.

 

That's the only way I see O'Sullivan getting beat.

 

Do a Thorburn on Higgins in 1980.

[Maroon Sailor]

O'Sullivan must be the most talented player of all time.

[The Merse]

Since when was saying Jesus Christ deemed industrial language

[Chester™]

Hawkins might get under Ronnie's skin in the final.

 

Funny that. My mate said the same and that Ronnie might blow it.

 

O'Sullivan must be the most talented player of all time.

 

Bollocks.

[shaun.lawson]

The only thing I'd say on this is that (IMO) if Davis, Hendry and O'Sullivan had all been at their peak at exactly the same time, O'Sullivan would have won the most world titles.

 

Trouble is, we'll just never know.

 

In 1989, Hendry was on the rise, only a year from becoming the youngest ever World Champion - yet Davis bestrode the event like a colossus, conceding just 23 frames throughout (a modern day record), and thrashed the Golden Bairn 16-9 in the semis.

 

In 1994, Hendry was thought to be vulnerable, and fractured his elbow mid-tournament - while Davis, remarkably, was back at provisional world number 1 after a superbly consistent couple of years, despite the standard of the sport rising by leaps and bounds. Davis led the semi-final 9-8, but Hendry won 16-9: a victory which meant a massive amount to him, and ended his great rival's ambitions of a seventh world title.

 

In 1995, O'Sullivan was on his way up - but still learning how to win at the Crucible. Hendry saw him off 13-8 in the quarters. Then, in 1999, they played the epic to end all epics: the third session of their semi-final was simply the greatest snooker ever witnessed, and capped the greatest World Championship ever witnessed. Hendry won 17-13 en route to his seventh title.

 

In 2002, defending Champion O'Sullivan made an absolute arse of himself before the semi-final: insulting Hendry and motivating him to do a number on him. Which he did: in another very high quality contest (but not quite as good as in '99), Hendry again won 17-13 - but this time lost the final, 18-17 to Peter Ebdon. His ambitions of an eighth title expired that night - but the 1999 and 2002 semi-finals are a considerable part of the reason why, for me, Hendry is clearly the GOAT.

 

But he now spiralled into decline, and O'Sullivan entered his peak. The snooker he produced in destroying Hendry 17-4 in the 2004 semis was amongst the best I've ever seen from anyone; and when they met again in 2008, the result was very similar: 17-6, in Hendry's twelfth and last world semi-final.

 

These three players so rarely met at their peak - though the Hendry-Davis UK final in 1990 (Hendry won 16-15 from 15-14 down after an incredible escape in the 30th frame) and Hendry-O'Sullivan Charity Challenge final in 1997 (Hendry blew an 8-2 lead, then won 9-8 after compiling a 147 in the final frame, for heavens sake) stand out as among the very best meetings between them.

[shaun.lawson]

Bollocks.

 

Oh yes he is. For pure talent, it's Ronnie, then A. Higgins, then Hendry, then White IMO.

 

PS. And if O'Sullivan won eight world titles (which he of course won't: I think six is his max), there'd be no argument. He'd be the GOAT, and Hendry would acknowledge as much too.

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

I think it is fairly obvious that O'Sullivan is the most naturally talented snooker player of all time. However, natural talent doesn't neccessarily mean the best ever.

 

For what its worth hasn't Hendry openly admitted that he believes O'Sullivan is the best player ever.

 

[Chester™]

Oh yes he is. For pure talent, it's Ronnie, then A. Higgins, then Hendry, then White IMO.

 

PS. And if O'Sullivan won eight world titles (which he of course won't: I think six is his max), there'd be no argument. He'd be the GOAT, and Hendry would acknowledge as much too.

 

Hendry might but we'd all know that (that view is nonsense) is pish.

 

For me, pure talent and enjoyment, I think White is better than O'Sullivan (though being of an age, bugger me Kirk Stevens had the lot).

(I have another for 'pure talent', though I might get laughs for it and its available by PM).

[Larry]

pure talent = Tony Drago

[Harry Palmer]

Willie Thorne was amazing.

[shaun.lawson]

Willie Thorne was amazing.

 

 

Worst bottler in snooker history IMO. And probably the least qualified of all the Beeb's snooker 'experts' to be an expert, given his prolific record of unbelievable under-achievement.

 

John Virgo is the second least qualified, and rivalled Thorne for an unerring capacity to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, usually via a rank bad attitude.

[Chester™]

 

Worst bottler in snooker history IMO. And probably the least qualified of all the Beeb's snooker 'experts' to be an expert, given his prolific record of unbelievable under-achievement.

 

John Virgo is the second least qualified, and rivalled Thorne for an unerring capacity to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, usually via a rank bad attitude.

 

Thorne and Virgo are a major problem. A couple of total welts. I'll never forget the time Thorne had an argument with Hendry in the comms box and then said 'what have you ever won?'.

 

The comms on Eurosport is excellent BTW.

[Harry Palmer]

Thorne and Virgo are a major problem. A couple of total welts. I'll never forget the time Thorne had an argument with Hendry in the comms box and then said 'what have you ever won?'.

 

The comms on Eurosport is excellent BTW.

 

YAS!!

 

Incidentally, Virgo was on Pointless tonight and gave the answer "Mr Potato" as being one of the Mr Men.

 

Failure in every sense of the word.

[Maroon Sailor]

Thorne came out with a classic this year though

 

During the Walden / Hawkins match they were talking about the players being able to smoke at the Crucible when he mentioned that Alex Higgins had 3 cigarettes on the go in a match against him.

 

When he looked over at the corner where Higgins was sitting all he could see was a puff of smoke

 

He said that he thought he was playing Hiawatha at one stage !

 

The audience went in to spontaneous laughter as they could hear it through their ear pieces

[Rudi Skacel]

Thorne and Virgo are a major problem. A couple of total welts. I'll never forget the time Thorne had an argument with Hendry in the comms box and then said 'what have you ever won?'.

 

The comms on Eurosport is excellent BTW.

 

He didnt did he? What on earth was the argument about and what was Hendry's respone?

[Chester™]

He didnt did he? What on earth was the argument about and what was Hendry's respone?

 

He did. It was a couple of years ago now. It was regarding what shot to play. Myself and my mate (mentioned above and is a massive snooker fan as well as being a 'decent' player) called the same shot as Hendry. The Bald **** went off on one, even moreso when the player chose the shot Hendry (and everyone else) picked. Thorne took the hump, big time.

 

And its not the first time either. I thought Steve Davis was going to lamp him over a shot not long after!

[jamborich]

Arguements all over the place here

 

O'sullivan, best break builder ever

 

Davis, best at putting opponents to sleep

 

Higgins J, All round game up there, his safety play is immaculate

 

Higgins A, Best long potter ever

 

Hendry, Had it all he invented bottle, nobody had the ability to create chances like Hendry did.....Best player ever without doubt

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Barry Shitehawkins.

 

Spent all night thinking of that.

[I P Knightley]

Barry Shitehawkins.

 

Spent all night thinking of that.

 

Worth it.

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

Barry Shitehawkins.

 

Spent all night thinking of that.

 

[Angry Haggis]

Barry Shitehawkins.

 

Spent all night thinking of that.

 

Meh 6/10.

 

Barry HawkWINS (assuming he beats Ronnie..which he won't)

[Ortarkod]

Barry Honkings.

[Chaka Demus & pliers]

Ronnie not happy with this table.

[Ortarkod]

Honkins.