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Edinburgh Trams Farce Continues

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Stuart Lyon
22 hours ago, FWJ said:

The extension will be self-financing and will not take money from other council services.

 

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/2616/councillors_to_scrutinise_trams_to_newhaven_final_business_case_ahead_of_march_decision

 

But the buses are being told to gift the tram lengthening project £20M so the Council is lying! What improvements to the bus service could be had for £20M?

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FWJ
5 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

 

But the buses are being told to gift the tram lengthening project £20M so the Council is lying! What improvements to the bus service could be had for £20M?

The funding from the buses is mentioned in paragraph 5.

 

As another contributor to this thread, who uses the buses very regularly, notes - a lot of the hold ups are caused when “buses get backed up by other buses”.  Leith Walk is close to saturation with buses and so trams on this route will take some of the pressure off rather than excacerbating the situation with even more buses.

 

The same contributor also noted hold-ups caused by delays in people getting on and off and the unfamiliar searching for the correct change to pay the driver. Neither of these situations is a problem with trams.

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FWJ

The fact is the trams have proved to be a huge success, better than expected.  Many of those opposed to them now (grudgingly perhaps) see that.

Which of the predictions of never running, not running to the airport terminal, daily break-downs, daily riots as conductors demand £1000 fines, traffic chaos and tourists and businesses deserting the city etc etc have come to pass?

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Harry Potter
2 hours ago, FWJ said:

The fact is the trams have proved to be a huge success, better than expected.  Many of those opposed to them now (grudgingly perhaps) see that.

Which of the predictions of never running, not running to the airport terminal, daily break-downs, daily riots as conductors demand £1000 fines, traffic chaos and tourists and businesses deserting the city etc etc have come to pass?

Never been on one, nearest stop from drumbrae is the gyle centre, nice wee 2 mile walk, to get one.

Stick to the car.

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Stuart Lyon
2 hours ago, FWJ said:

The funding from the buses is mentioned in paragraph 5.

 

As another contributor to this thread, who uses the buses very regularly, notes - a lot of the hold ups are caused when “buses get backed up by other buses”.  Leith Walk is close to saturation with buses and so trams on this route will take some of the pressure off rather than excacerbating the situation with even more buses.

 

The same contributor also noted hold-ups caused by delays in people getting on and off and the unfamiliar searching for the correct change to pay the driver. Neither of these situations is a problem with trams.

So the gift from the buses is mentioned I never denied that to was. I was pointing out that the Council lied by saying no other services would be affected by the funding of the vanity tram but clearly the bus service will be.

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FWJ

I would count ‘Transport’ as one service and the introduction of trams to LW will improve transport generally - as a previous contributor noted too many buses leads to bunching and delays.

 

Don’t you think the “vanity” tram thing has maybe had its day?

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FWJ
1 hour ago, Harry Potter said:

Never been on one, nearest stop from drumbrae is the gyle centre, nice wee 2 mile walk, to get one.

Stick to the car.

Fair enough (though there’s an excellent bus service too remember!).  No-one is being forced onto trams at gun point - though an ever increasing number are finding them useful, passenger numbers up 10% last year to over 7.3 million.

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davemclaren

I like the tram but my old farts pass isn’t valid on it. 

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The Mighty Thor

Does anyone actually believe that the extension to Newhaven will cost only £196 million?

 

Given the way the original build and the contracts surrounding it went I'd say that's a very optimistic. 

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davemclaren
1 hour ago, Toggie88 said:

We should've bit the bullet in the early 90s and went with plans for 2 metro lines, re-opening the southern sub and adding stations on existing rail routes. 

 

Edin_Studies_19.95120439_std.JPG

 

https://www.edinburghtrams.info/the_network/studies

Imagine the complaints about disruption due to that plan. ?

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Toggie88
51 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Imagine the complaints about disruption due to that plan. ?

 

Aye, would be done by now though... maybe

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Greenbank2
23 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Does anyone actually believe that the extension to Newhaven will cost only £196 million?

 

Given the way the original build and the contracts surrounding it went I'd say that's a very optimistic. 

Yes. They (the council) had their fingers so badly burned the first time around, for once the phrase "lessons learned" i trust, will be accurate.

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jack D and coke
On 08/02/2019 at 14:21, FWJ said:

The tram was never meant to be the fast way from the city centre (or indeed Leith) to the Airport - that was to be EARL (which was cancelled to help pay for the  dualling of the A9 - cost £3billion).  The tram was to take large numbers of passengers off increasingly overloaded bus routes to the rapidly expanding areas of Edinburgh Park etc and also down the mostly densely populated part of the country - Leith Walk.

Passenger numbers on the existing stretch are rising by about 10% annually (extra services have had to be introduced at peak times) and extending down LW to Newhaven will double the numbers using it.

If I read it correctly the borrowing to pay for the cost of the extension will be paid from fares since it is now running at a profit (earlier than expected)

 

I remember confident predictions that the airport bus (the 100) would be forced off in order to give the tram a face-saving monopoly.  There’s now what 3? 4? express bus routes to the airport along with the tram.  Confident predictions too that the (envy of the country) bus service would be brought to its knees.  Instead it, too, goes from strength to strength with massive new investment.  

 

The population of Edinburgh is forecast to grow by 150,000 over the next 25 years.  These people are going to have to get around somehow.  Edinburgh is doing what progressive, forward-thining and ambitious cities are doing around the world.

Maybe we should just stay a dour wee provincial backwater.

Agree totally. Invest in it and take it right to the outskirts of the town. 

You either want people to stop bringing cars into the city or you don’t. The only problem is we’re doing this all 10 years too late. 

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Jambothump
On 10/02/2019 at 13:55, davemclaren said:

I like the tram but my old farts pass isn’t valid on it. 

Not an Edinburgh city resident then are you? it costs a bit more to pay for the privelige to live here, free trams for ove 60's is an occassinal benefit☺

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tian447
On 11/02/2019 at 11:13, Toggie88 said:

We should've bit the bullet in the early 90s and went with plans for 2 metro lines, re-opening the southern sub and adding stations on existing rail routes. 

 

Edin_Studies_19.95120439_std.JPG

 

https://www.edinburghtrams.info/the_network/studies

 

That would have been pretty good!  Just about every city with a Metro system is an absolute breeze to get around.  Just think how different Edinburgh could have developed over the last 20 odd years with that in place!

 

Plus, aesthetically it doesn't have to look brilliant.  Been in some Eastern European cities that had some ancient, Soviet-era rolling stock, and it didn't matter a jot that they were a bit run down because of the sheer convenience they offer.

 

We should do it, and have a fancy Hearts Underground stop directly under the new stand :thumbsup: 

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Mikey1874
Stuart Lyon
2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

A different point of view

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/trams-to-leith-it-s-time-to-deploy-some-pessimism-bias-john-mclellan-1-4872874

 

According to the Council's propaganda tw weekseets the Councillors have been scrutinising this for weeks and are still scrutinising it. Why don't they put it to a citizens vote and do the democratic thing. They won't because they don't like rejection.

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XB52
21 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

 

A different point of view

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/trams-to-leith-it-s-time-to-deploy-some-pessimism-bias-john-mclellan-1-4872874

 

According to the Council's propaganda tw weekseets the Councillors have been scrutinising this for weeks and are still scrutinising it. Why don't they put it to a citizens vote and do the democratic thing. They won't because they don't like rejection.

Evening News/Scotsman will always be against it because we have an SNP government and an SNP/Labour council. There is no doubt the original tram debacle was a huge cock up but, now they are there, the numbers seem to show they are popular and it's a 'no brainer' to go ahead and finish the line.

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Toggie88
20 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

 

A different point of view

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/trams-to-leith-it-s-time-to-deploy-some-pessimism-bias-john-mclellan-1-4872874

 

According to the Council's propaganda tw weekseets the Councillors have been scrutinising this for weeks and are still scrutinising it. Why don't they put it to a citizens vote and do the democratic thing. They won't because they don't like rejection.

 

What I can't get my head around is how it's so expensive. When you compare it to other European cities, Berlin for example, the cost per km of line is almost 4 times more expensive - doesn't make sense to me. You could understand a 20-25% increase but that's just ridiculous. 

 

 

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Mikey1874
36 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

What I can't get my head around is how it's so expensive. When you compare it to other European cities, Berlin for example, the cost per km of line is almost 4 times more expensive - doesn't make sense to me. You could understand a 20-25% increase but that's just ridiculous. 

 

 

 

I've always thought that is the main question. 

 

Including the cost of moving underground services which caused the original problems when the work overran. 

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Justin Z

Just taking the tram to the airport this morning and it is absolutely rammed.

 

Anyone telling you it's not being used is in Fantasyland.

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Geoff the Mince
15 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

Just taking the tram to the airport this morning and it is absolutely rammed.

 

Anyone telling you it's not being used is in Fantasyland.

At times it is , usually tourists or people who work at Edinburgh Park . £800 million upwards for a train set that 90% of Edinburghs population will never use it great value for money .

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Jamboelite

If its profitable then its worth it and it makes sense then to finish the job.

 

 

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Justin Z
46 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

At times it is , usually tourists or people who work at Edinburgh Park . £800 million upwards for a train set that 90% of Edinburghs population will never use it great value for money .

 

Definitely the initial outlay is where the debate is... But some of the stories I heard about it being a completely useless white elephant--it's anything but, even if it did cost way too much.

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XB52
11 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Definitely the initial outlay is where the debate is... But some of the stories I heard about it being a completely useless white elephant--it's anything but, even if it did cost way too much.

People are right to question the totally over the top price of the initial project but that is the past. When the line is completed, costs need to be tightly controlled throughout. Passenger numbers show that the trams are popular

Edited by XB52
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Justin Z
1 minute ago, XB52 said:

People are right to question the totally over the top price of the initial project but that is the past. When the line is completed, costs need to be tightly controlled throughout. Passenger numbers show that the trams are popular

 

Exactly. Hopefully they've learned something from the initial construction...? ?

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Harry Potter

 

48 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

If its profitable then its worth it and it makes sense then to finish the job.

 

 

The 2 re-cycling bins in our street (cardboard , paper, cans etc) now full for over a week has been reported.

How can you change people to use these services if the folk that put them in cant keep up to speed and empty them.

Talking about 90 million for an extended track, get the day to day services fixed as priority, wonder how much over budget this latest 

carry on will go, lessons never learned.

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Cade

How much profit is the trams making?

 

How many years will it take to recoup the £1billion+ cost?

 

Answers on a postcard.

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jack D and coke
1 hour ago, Geoff the Mince said:

At times it is , usually tourists or people who work at Edinburgh Park . £800 million upwards for a train set that 90% of Edinburghs population will never use it great value for money .

Maybe if they’d built it properly in the first place and continue to expand? 

People who complain and just complain about everything tbh about I wonder what the answer is to the building traffic congestion? Just whinge and whinge and do nowt or what? 

Thats not a pop at you btw but Edinburgh is 20 years behind imo and all you get is whingeing. Build the thing properly and take it all over the town, open up the old railway lines etc make it the most expensive train set in the world I don’t really care. 

Doing nothing will make the costs come down obviously and leaving it for another ten years is probably a great idea. 

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Geoff the Mince
1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Maybe if they’d built it properly in the first place and continue to expand? 

People who complain and just complain about everything tbh about I wonder what the answer is to the building traffic congestion? Just whinge and whinge and do nowt or what? 

Thats not a pop at you btw but Edinburgh is 20 years behind imo and all you get is whingeing. Build the thing properly and take it all over the town, open up the old railway lines etc make it the most expensive train set in the world I don’t really care. 

Doing nothing will make the costs come down obviously and leaving it for another ten years is probably a great idea. 

With the popluation boom in the city the council gadjies really need to look at the road congestion . The amount of estates being build from Sheffirhall to Straiton (especially Gilmeron ) without any new infastructure on the roads is a farce . Ideally opening up the rail links around the city would help but i dont know how feasible that is or costs involved .

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jack D and coke
15 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

With the popluation boom in the city the council gadjies really need to look at the road congestion . The amount of estates being build from Sheffirhall to Straiton (especially Gilmeron ) without any new infastructure on the roads is a farce . Ideally opening up the rail links around the city would help but i dont know how feasible that is or costs involved .

Imo they need to find the money and the will and everybody just stop whingeing about it all the time. This ran over budget, that ran over budget, oh what about the cost of that I wish people would just shut the **** up it drives me mad. It’s normally all based on a grievance of what party is in power it’s playground pish it really is. 

The city will grind to a halt in the not too distant future if this isn’t tackled and very soon. You can’t expect people to use public transport if it’s not really good enough. 

I agree about the building all over the south side, barely any infrastructure improvements, all that extra traffic and nothing new to carry it. 

But if everybody just whines about the cost of stuff to sort it I’m sure it’ll be sound. 

Edited by jack D and coke

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Phil Dunphy
39 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Imo they need to find the money and the will and everybody just stop whingeing about it all the time. This ran over budget, that ran over budget, oh what about the cost of that I wish people would just shut the **** up it drives me mad. It’s normally all based on a grievance of what party is in power it’s playground pish it really is. 

The city will grind to a halt in the not too distant future if this isn’t tackled and very soon. You can’t expect people to use public transport if it’s not really good enough. 

I agree about the building all over the south side, barely any infrastructure improvements, all that extra traffic and nothing new to carry it. 

But if everybody just whines about the cost of stuff to sort it I’m sure it’ll be sound. 

 

Start charging a congestion charge in the city and watch how many people start relying on public transport. 

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jack D and coke
8 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Start charging a congestion charge in the city and watch how many people start relying on public transport. 

Tbh I don’t agree with that at the minute. In London the underground is great for getting around and I’ve driven about in London when Ive worked down there it’s utterly horrendous even with the charge. Takes an absolute age to get anywhere but sometimes you need a vehicle, tradesmen, deliveries etc. For the public though we don’t have anything to compete for getting around other than buses that go at snails pace, not good enough. I’ve no doubt a charge will be brought in at some point though. 

You seen the grief the snp have got for this car parking levy charge, it’s up to individuals councils to decide whether they impose it or not and labour even had it in their manifesto in the last year or so yet it’s a stick to beat the snp with apparently. Playground politics yet again. 

Imagine the bun fight if someone brings in a congestion charge. It’s pathetic. 

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Phil Dunphy
1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

Tbh I don’t agree with that at the minute. In London the underground is great for getting around and I’ve driven about in London when Ive worked down there it’s utterly horrendous even with the charge. Takes an absolute age to get anywhere but sometimes you need a vehicle, tradesmen, deliveries etc. For the public though we don’t have anything to compete for getting around other than buses that go at snails pace, not good enough. I’ve no doubt a charge will be brought in at some point though. 

You seen the grief the snp have got for this car parking levy charge, it’s up to individuals councils to decide whether they impose it or not and labour even had it in their manifesto in the last year or so yet it’s a stick to beat the snp with apparently. Playground politics yet again. 

Imagine the bun fight if someone brings in a congestion charge. It’s pathetic. 

 

Whoever brought this policy about would be slaughtered for it, because it’s basically another form of vehicle tax. There’s no point making the SNP out to be some sort of victim over a ridiculous policy they’ve decided to bring about. 

 

A congestion charge would bring the number of unnecessary vehicles in the city centre down. Edinburgh has the best public transport of any place I’ve ever lived in (3 cities and a large part of my life in the Borders) and that’s without thinking about the trams. A drop in traffic is essential for this city, without finding some way of making the roads wider. The focus, for me, should be specific ways to bring down the number of vehicles in the city centre, without impacting on the budget for public services (that the SNP also oversaw) or forcing local businesses to close because half of the east end of the city has been dug up. 

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jack D and coke
17 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Whoever brought this policy about would be slaughtered for it, because it’s basically another form of vehicle tax. There’s no point making the SNP out to be some sort of victim over a ridiculous policy they’ve decided to bring about. 

 

A congestion charge would bring the number of unnecessary vehicles in the city centre down. Edinburgh has the best public transport of any place I’ve ever lived in (3 cities and a large part of my life in the Borders) and that’s without thinking about the trams. A drop in traffic is essential for this city, without finding some way of making the roads wider. The focus, for me, should be specific ways to bring down the number of vehicles in the city centre, without impacting on the budget for public services (that the SNP also oversaw) or forcing local businesses to close because half of the east end of the city has been dug up. 

It’s a ridiculous policy but a congestion charge isn’t? My point anyway was that it was a labour policy and yet they’re acting with outrage about it, really disengenous stuff. Personally I don’t care who comes up with it anyway it’s not that bad an idea to take unnecessary vehicles out the way or even use the money raised to help improve things. 

What businesses have been forced to close? I’m assuming by the east end you mean around John Lewis/St James centre? 

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Phil Dunphy
6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s a ridiculous policy but a congestion charge isn’t? My point anyway was that it was a labour policy and yet they’re acting with outrage about it, really disengenous stuff. Personally I don’t care who comes up with it anyway it’s not that bad an idea to take unnecessary vehicles out the way or even use the money raised to help improve things. 

What businesses have been forced to close? I’m assuming by the east end you mean around John Lewis/St James centre? 

 

Nope. I’m on about the local businesses that were forced to close on Leith Walk because of the disruption the last time they went to put tram lines down. Perhaps anyone who lived around the area at the time can help with some actual names. 

 

A congestion charge gives the option of not taking the car into the city centre and instead relying on the top class public transport in the city. Has London suffered for bringing it in? Any Londoners able to give their opinions on the congestion charge?

 

I could talk about killing someone and how I would go about it, but does that mean the heat should be off the actual murderer since I’d said I was going to do it? Whether Labour included it in their manifesto is irrelevant. The SNP actually introduced it. And I’d guess that you wouldn’t be so blasé about it if the Conservatives has introduced it instead. 

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The Real Maroonblood
3 hours ago, Cade said:

How much profit is the trams making?

 

How many years will it take to recoup the £1billion+ cost?

 

Answers on a postcard.

200 years minimum. 

That's being generous. 

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Stuart Lyon

The tram will never make a profit as it is being subsidised by the Council who are picking up the interest on the original loan and are also paying the  annual maintenance costs. In addition their proposal for the lengthening of the vanity tram line includes a 'gift" of £20M from Lothian Buses!  The Council leader McVey said in his part of the EEN article today "and an additional Lothian buses dividend to repay the construction costs.” So does this mean the Lothian Buses are expected to make another gift?

Read more at: https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/calls-to-ditch-edinburgh-tram-vanity-project-and-use-90-million-for-public-services-1-4875886

 

So much for other services not suffering as a result of the latest proposal. How many environmentally friendly buses could you buy with £20M

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jack D and coke
7 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Nope. I’m on about the local businesses that were forced to close on Leith Walk because of the disruption the last time they went to put tram lines down. Perhaps anyone who lived around the area at the time can help with some actual names. 

 

A congestion charge gives the option of not taking the car into the city centre and instead relying on the top class public transport in the city. Has London suffered for bringing it in? Any Londoners able to give their opinions on the congestion charge?

 

I could talk about killing someone and how I would go about it, but does that mean the heat should be off the actual murderer since I’d said I was going to do it? Whether Labour included it in their manifesto is irrelevant. The SNP actually introduced it. And I’d guess that you wouldn’t be so blasé about it if the Conservatives has introduced it instead. 

The conservatives do and have been making decisions my whole life that affect me despite virtually nobody here voting for  them in decent numbers since probably the 1950’s! In saying that if they ever do manage to get any position of power here again without being voted in by the English people then I’d treat them the same as whoever is in power now. I’m not an SNP lover by any means btw, that’s not the same as my Indy views. I liked David McLetchie and Annabelle Goldie and don’t particularly like any SNP politician so square that one :lol: 

The congestion charge in London has brought in a lot of money I know that much. 

Cant speak about the businesses on the walk that closed I don’t know enough about it but Leith Walk imo looks better than it has down for years, plenty decent looking shops, coffee shops and bars down there these days can’t have been that bad. 

 

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FWJ
7 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

The tram will never make a profit as it is being subsidised by the Council who are picking up the interest on the original loan and are also paying the  annual maintenance costs. In addition their proposal for the lengthening of the vanity tram line includes a 'gift" of £20M from Lothian Buses!  The Council leader McVey said in his part of the EEN article today "and an additional Lothian buses dividend to repay the construction costs.” So does this mean the Lothian Buses are expected to make another gift?

Read more at: https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/calls-to-ditch-edinburgh-tram-vanity-project-and-use-90-million-for-public-services-1-4875886

 

So much for other services not suffering as a result of the latest proposal. How many environmentally friendly buses could you buy with £20M

Dunno, but probably enough to completely clog up Leith Walk.

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Phil Dunphy
25 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The conservatives do and have been making decisions my whole life that affect me despite virtually nobody here voting for  them in decent numbers since probably the 1950’s! In saying that if they ever do manage to get any position of power here again without being voted in by the English people then I’d treat them the same as whoever is in power now. I’m not an SNP lover by any means btw, that’s not the same as my Indy views. I liked David McLetchie and Annabelle Goldie and don’t particularly like any SNP politician so square that one :lol: 

The congestion charge in London has brought in a lot of money I know that much. 

Cant speak about the businesses on the walk that closed I don’t know enough about it but Leith Walk imo looks better than it has down for years, plenty decent looking shops, coffee shops and bars down there these days can’t have been that bad. 

 

 

Whether or not the place has regrouped in the last 10 years, make no mistake. It suffered when the road was being prepared for the tram lines. And there’s no reason to suggest it wouldn’t suffer again, should the road be closed off again. 

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FWJ
3 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Whether or not the place has regrouped in the last 10 years, make no mistake. It suffered when the road was being prepared for the tram lines. And there’s no reason to suggest it wouldn’t suffer again, should the road be closed off again. 

Part of the cost of the planned extension includes funds to help small businesses etc affected by the building works.

Shandwick Place certainly seems to have bounced back.

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The Frenchman Returns
1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Nope. I’m on about the local businesses that were forced to close on Leith Walk because of the disruption the last time they went to put tram lines down. Perhaps anyone who lived around the area at the time can help with some actual names. 

 

A congestion charge gives the option of not taking the car into the city centre and instead relying on the top class public transport in the city. Has London suffered for bringing it in? Any Londoners able to give their opinions on the congestion charge?

 

I could talk about killing someone and how I would go about it, but does that mean the heat should be off the actual murderer since I’d said I was going to do it? Whether Labour included it in their manifesto is irrelevant. The SNP actually introduced it. And I’d guess that you wouldn’t be so blasé about it if the Conservatives has introduced it instead. 

Not just Leith Street, ask the businesses around Haymarket Terrace how many times it’s been dug up.   Back again closing off Magdala and further along by ABs house. Already plans to dig the whole road up again this autumn. 

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Phil Dunphy
17 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Not just Leith Street, ask the businesses around Haymarket Terrace how many times it’s been dug up.   Back again closing off Magdala and further along by ABs house. Already plans to dig the whole road up again this autumn. 

 

I was living on Easter Road at the time of the original construction so saw the absolute carnage that Leith Walk and the surrounding areas became during the tram construction but totally overlooked the impact it would have had on Atholl Place through to Haymarket, right enough. 

 

1 hour ago, FWJ said:

Part of the cost of the planned extension includes funds to help small businesses etc affected by the building works.

Shandwick Place certainly seems to have bounced back.

 

I sincerely hope this is the case and that no-one loses their livelihood over an extension that was meant to be part of the original line. 

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EIEIO

People complaining that it goes nowhere near the homes of 90 percent of the city's population correct at the moment far less so when extension to ocean terminal happens.

People complaining the council or buses subsidise the trams  , according to trams from 2019 they will be responsible for maintenance of trams and infrastructure,  before  then it is/was the council's responsibility. So not for much longer.

While the bus service is very good ,at times you see princes street and Leith walk in particular absolutely checked by them , no wonder they need eco buses. If nothing is done Edinburgh city centre will be in festival type gridlock for the whole year not just in August.

As for disruption in Leith Walk this has continued well after the tramworks  stopped particularly around pilrig street area. My partner was a community psychiatric nurse based in the walk and dreaded having to go to and fro to her office between blocks of visits. The same goes for Haymarket mainly due to Scottish water repairs upgrade. So not a trams issue either.

 

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Normthebarman
On 09/02/2019 at 16:11, frankblack said:

 

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And a half-arsed response from you trying to play the man rather than debate the point.  Have you tried commuting from the ERI to East Craigs at rush hour by two buses and how long do you think they take?

 

As someone who commutes regularly to the city centre it takes at least 45 minutes to reach Haymarket from East Craigs, so add in time waiting for a connecting bus plus more than that to reach the ERI from the city centre at rush hour.

 

So, are you going to apologise or prove me wrong or try to deflect from the fact you don't know what you are talking about?

Why didn't you take the 21? 10 minute walk to the bus stop and goes straight there in an hour and 15. 

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frankblack
1 hour ago, Normthebarman said:

Why didn't you take the 21? 10 minute walk to the bus stop and goes straight there in an hour and 15. 

 

I did that once at an off peak time on a Saturday.  It went the full route all over Midlothian and East and North Edinburgh before adding the 10 minute walk.  Definitely longer than two buses.

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XB52
4 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Nope. I’m on about the local businesses that were forced to close on Leith Walk because of the disruption the last time they went to put tram lines down. Perhaps anyone who lived around the area at the time can help with some actual names. 

 

A congestion charge gives the option of not taking the car into the city centre and instead relying on the top class public transport in the city. Has London suffered for bringing it in? Any Londoners able to give their opinions on the congestion charge?

 

I could talk about killing someone and how I would go about it, but does that mean the heat should be off the actual murderer since I’d said I was going to do it? Whether Labour included it in their manifesto is irrelevant. The SNP actually introduced it. And I’d guess that you wouldn’t be so blasé about it if the Conservatives has introduced it instead. 

Actually the SNP haven't introduced it. They have passed a law allowing local councils to introduce it if they want; just like in England 

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The Future's Maroon

The next stage is extending to Riccarton/Currie I’ve heard, not for a while but that next.

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