Edinburgh Trams Farce Continues

[FWJ]

 

 

 

If there was demand for regular public transport from these areas then I am fairly confident Lothian Buses would consider sending a service out there. If they don't already. Suggesting that a tramline from the city centre out to the sticks is even a viable option is laughable.

Are Dalkeith and S Queensferry 'the sticks'? I wouldn't say so. They are part of the rapidly-expanding Edinburgh "urban area" and need a high quality link into the city centre. A tram would provide this.

[Ribble]

Are Dalkeith and S Queensferry 'the sticks'? I wouldn't say so. They are part of the rapidly-expanding Edinburgh "urban area" and need a high quality link into the city centre. A tram would provide this.

 

Borders rail link will take care of Dalkeith so no need for a tram!! As for South Queensferry, how much do you think a tram travelling that distance would cost for what in reality would amount to a couple of hundred people a day?

[FWJ]

 

 

 

Borders rail link will take care of Dalkeith so no need for a tram!! As for South Queensferry, how much do you think a tram travelling that distance would cost for what in reality would amount to a couple of hundred people a day?

I used Dalkeith and SQ as examples of the kind of outer suburbs that the Manchester trams serve.

What is the planned frequency of the Borders Rail Link and how many stops will it have between Mid-Lothian and Waverley. A frequent, stopping tram service may prove more convenient for the thousands that travel into Edinburgh from Mid-Lothian daily.

 

The bus service in Edinburgh is great but people are much more likely to leave their car for a tram/light rail service than a bus.

[Templeton Peck]

Borders rail link will take care of Dalkeith so no need for a tram!! As for South Queensferry, how much do you think a tram travelling that distance would cost for what in reality would amount to a couple of hundred people a day?

 

SQ already has a train service

[SUTOL]

Lothian Buses don't send a service out to South Queensferry. Despite folk asking for one, and them saying on their literature they serve the people of Edinburgh.

 

Maybe they looked at a map and couldn't see anywhere called South Queensferry on it.

 

[Ribble]

I used Dalkeith and SQ as examples of the kind of outer suburbs that the Manchester trams serve.

What is the planned frequency of the Borders Rail Link and how many stops will it have between Mid-Lothian and Waverley. A frequent, stopping tram service may prove more convenient for the thousands that travel into Edinburgh from Mid-Lothian daily.

 

The bus service in Edinburgh is great but people are much more likely to leave their car for a tram/light rail service than a bus.

 

Wouldn't be so sure of that tbh! I grew up in Gorebridge which has one of the new Borders Rail stations but in an effort to save 10-15 mins getting to the city centre would I be willing to pay much more than it costs on the bus? Fares haven't yet been released but I would say Gorebridge to Edinburgh is an equivalent journey (longer journey time but shorter distance) in to what I currently do (Edinburgh - Livingston) and that is ?8 return, would people really pay an extra ?5 per day compared to 2 single fares on the bus just to save 10-15 minutes??

 

As for the number of stops for borders rail in midlothian i'm sure it stops at Gorebridge, Newtongrange, Shawfair, Millerhilll and then into waverley!

[FWJ]

 

 

 

Wouldn't be so sure of that tbh! I grew up in Gorebridge which has one of the new Borders Rail stations but in an effort to save 10-15 mins getting to the city centre would I be willing to pay much more than it costs on the bus? Fares haven't yet been released but I would say Gorebridge to Edinburgh is an equivalent journey (longer journey time but shorter distance) in to what I currently do (Edinburgh - Livingston) and that is ?8 return, would people really pay an extra ?5 per day compared to 2 single fares on the bus just to save 10-15 minutes??

 

As for the number of stops for borders rail in midlothian i'm sure it stops at Gorebridge, Newtongrange, Shawfair, Millerhilll and then into waverley!

What I meant was how many stops in Edinburgh itself - the railway takes a roundabout way into Waverley, but a tram from Midlothian going straight into the city with stops at, say the RIE, KB, George Square and The Bridges. There are plenty of people work in these areas?

[Boris]

What I meant was how many stops in Edinburgh itself - the railway takes a roundabout way into Waverley, but a tram from Midlothian going straight into the city with stops at, say the RIE, KB, George Square and The Bridges. There are plenty of people work in these areas?

 

Would Midlothian Council wish to start spending on a tram then?

 

Dalkeith, Gorebridge etc are all outwith the remit of CEC so if local authorities wanted to pay for the trams in their areas to link with Edinburgh then it could be a goer.

[Coco]

I notice that was dated more than two years ago. I presume the work has now been carried out to the required standard.

 

Ha ha. They gave up on the Leith Walk stuff and filled in the holes. The evidence from the bit that they were really bothered about - the concrete required to handle the weight of the road trains - is that it had to be redone 3 times as they were incompetent in how they poured the concrete.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Wouldn't say South Queensferry is 'the sticks', but Dalkeith is, imo.

[davemclaren]

 

 

Wouldn't be so sure of that tbh! I grew up in Gorebridge which has one of the new Borders Rail stations but in an effort to save 10-15 mins getting to the city centre would I be willing to pay much more than it costs on the bus? Fares haven't yet been released but I would say Gorebridge to Edinburgh is an equivalent journey (longer journey time but shorter distance) in to what I currently do (Edinburgh - Livingston) and that is ?8 return, would people really pay an extra ?5 per day compared to 2 single fares on the bus just to save 10-15 minutes??

 

As for the number of stops for borders rail in midlothian i'm sure it stops at Gorebridge, Newtongrange, Shawfair, Millerhilll and then into waverley!

 

Hardengreen, newcraighall and brunstane as well before waverley.

[Flux]

 

 

 

Maybe they looked at a map and couldn't see anywhere called South Queensferry on it.

 

That just blew my mind.

 

It's the Western Approach Road all over again!

[Coco]

Wouldn't be so sure of that tbh! I grew up in Gorebridge which has one of the new Borders Rail stations but in an effort to save 10-15 mins getting to the city centre would I be willing to pay much more than it costs on the bus? Fares haven't yet been released but I would say Gorebridge to Edinburgh is an equivalent journey (longer journey time but shorter distance) in to what I currently do (Edinburgh - Livingston) and that is ?8 return, would people really pay an extra ?5 per day compared to 2 single fares on the bus just to save 10-15 minutes??

 

As for the number of stops for borders rail in midlothian i'm sure it stops at Gorebridge, Newtongrange, Shawfair, Millerhilll and then into waverley!

 

Fair number of bus stops in Gorebridge where the walk to the train station would eat up your 10-15 minutes too ... plus the potential for the same or more at the other end too.

[davemclaren]

Fair number of bus stops in Gorebridge where the walk to the train station would eat up your 10-15 minutes too ... plus the potential for the same or more at the other end too.

 

Typically, most passengers will take their car to the stations. Newcraighall/Brunstane are busy enough at peak times.

[dobmisterdobster]

Look at the map. it goes to the terminal. Plus the airport is being expanded starting this winter and will wrap around the tram stop. One line will lead to more. It has in every city in the UK where a tram has been built. Would you rather the council use the money to build homes for teen moms?

 

or community centres for alchies with their self-inflicted problems.

[Coco]

Typically, most passengers will take their car to the stations. Newcraighall/Brunstane are busy enough at peak times.

 

There are only 600 car parking spaces. These are going to be very empty trains if most passengers are going to take their cars. Or will we see residents of the places near the station have to get parking permits (no doubt at a cost)?

Q.

Will there be parking provision at the stations?

tion

A.

Yes, all stations with the exception of Galashiels will have dedicated parking facilities. Car parking facilities at Tweedbank station will function as park and ride facilities for Borders passengers.

In total, there will be over 600 car parking spaces at stations along the route.

[Ribble]

Fair number of bus stops in Gorebridge where the walk to the train station would eat up your 10-15 minutes too ... plus the potential for the same or more at the other end too.

 

Exactly, someone living in Arniston and working at the west end would still be quicker getting the bus than they would getting the train! To be fair the same could be said for most of the stops on the line, nowhere near the main population areas of Midlothian!

[davemclaren]

There are only 600 car parking spaces. These are going to be very empty trains if most passengers are going to take their cars. Or will we see residents of the places near the station have to get parking permits (no doubt at a cost)?

 

 

Q.

 

Will there be parking provision at the stations?

tion

 

A.

 

Yes, all stations with the exception of Galashiels will have dedicated parking facilities. Car parking facilities at Tweedbank station will function as park and ride facilities for Borders passengers.

In total, there will be over 600 car parking spaces at stations along the route.

 

 

 

The prediciton is about 600k-ish return journeys per year IIRC so parking in the streets nearby may well be a problem. However, there's always the Tesco car park at Eskbank as well. :-) No parking in Gala though as that is all walk up.

[Dunks]

Midlothian are looking at rail-based transport from Penicuik into Edinburgh - could be light rail or otherwise.

[Coco]

I notice that was dated more than two years ago. I presume the work has now been carried out to the required standard.

 

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/tram-route-cracks-before-launch-show-rushed-job-1-3140445

[scott_jambo]

Anyone have photos of the live trams now that they are being tested?

[Coco]

Anyone have photos of the live trams now that they are being tested?

 

Video on this

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/slow-tram-test-flanked-by-21-contractors-1-3130869

[scott_jambo]

Looks rapid.

[FWJ]

 

 

 

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/tram-route-cracks-before-launch-show-rushed-job-1-3140445

Evening News in anti-trams story shock!

[jamboinglasgow]

Looks rapid.

 

The first trip of the tram was going to be a slow one, they need to check everything along the track, take measurements to make sure everything is safe and not out of place and there is no complications from unforeseen issues. You dont want it to hurtle down the tracks first time and find a fault which causes it to derail or do serious damage. They have been building it up all last week to faster speeds, think it will be at normal speed now.

 

First time I have posted on this thread, stayed away as the tile suggests its full of negative views on the tram. I have always been supportive of the trams (though I do think the council made a huge mess in how it ran the building of it a few years ago) and pleased that this thread is not all negative posters.

 

I follow the Edinburgh Tram twitter page, which is quite good and open at answering peoples questions, and puts up good photos of the construction of it. Though see at the moment some Gaelic expert is having a real go at the tram operators for not having signs up in Gaelic at the stations and has made a complaint.

[scott_jambo]

The first trip of the tram was going to be a slow one, they need to check everything along the track, take measurements to make sure everything is safe and not out of place and there is no complications from unforeseen issues. You dont want it to hurtle down the tracks first time and find a fault which causes it to derail or do serious damage. They have been building it up all last week to faster speeds, think it will be at normal speed now.

 

First time I have posted on this thread, stayed away as the tile suggests its full of negative views on the tram. I have always been supportive of the trams (though I do think the council made a huge mess in how it ran the building of it a few years ago) and pleased that this thread is not all negative posters.

 

I follow the Edinburgh Tram twitter page, which is quite good and open at answering peoples questions, and puts up good photos of the construction of it. Though see at the moment some Gaelic expert is having a real go at the tram operators for not having signs up in Gaelic at the stations and has made a complaint.

 

Gaelic signs. This is Edinburgh ffs. They better not put gaelic signs up. Polish signs would be more relevant.

[jamboinglasgow]

Very much this. I'm going to Manchester this weekend where the tram system is hugely popular and people are lobbying for extensions and new lines to go through their part of town. The Manc trams also reach well out into the suburbs - the equivalent here being trams to the like of Dalkeith and S Queensferry.

 

Exactly. This line was always going to be the toughest built (and sadly they didn't carry on to Leith.) Your creating the spine of it through the city, it can be built off over the years. I have lived in Edinburgh and Glasgow in my life, when I started living in Glasgow I realised that Edinburgh accepts a transport system that is minimal. Yes the Lothian buses are great, I wish there was a Lothian buses equivalent in Glasgow (for a start they at least tell you the price of a bus journey on the timetable, First buses leave it as a guessing game when you get on the bus.) But then you have a subway, train lines that stretch all over the city. Everything is linked and can get you around. Take the subway for example, if that was proposed now, people will call it a pointless waste of money, its a relatively small circle it goes around at its widest probably 2km circumference, costs the same amount as a ticket for a Lothian bus ride but it works so well at connecting people and it is always well used.

 

As you say the aim should be to extend it and take in the suburbs of Edinburgh, if Edinburgh wants to grow as a city it needs to take in these areas and create a unified transport system. Still think the South Suburbian line should be reopened and connected up.

[scott_jambo]

Exactly. This line was always going to be the toughest built (and sadly they didn't carry on to Leith.) Your creating the spine of it through the city, it can be built off over the years. I have lived in Edinburgh and Glasgow in my life, when I started living in Glasgow I realised that Edinburgh accepts a transport system that is minimal. Yes the Lothian buses are great, I wish there was a Lothian buses equivalent in Glasgow (for a start they at least tell you the price of a bus journey on the timetable, First buses leave it as a guessing game when you get on the bus.) But then you have a subway, train lines that stretch all over the city. Everything is linked and can get you around. Take the subway for example, if that was proposed now, people will call it a pointless waste of money, its a relatively small circle it goes around at its widest probably 2km circumference, costs the same amount as a ticket for a Lothian bus ride but it works so well at connecting people and it is always well used.

 

As you say the aim should be to extend it and take in the suburbs of Edinburgh, if Edinburgh wants to grow as a city it needs to take in these areas and create a unified transport system. Still think the South Suburbian line should be reopened and connected up.

 

I think everyone in Edinburgh would love a subway network. Unfortunately the volcanic rock makes this impossible so we're stuck with shan trams.

[Tommy Wiseau]

Jamboinglasgow has always supported the tram.

 

That's big of you mate, all the way from the West coast.

[scott_jambo]

Jamboinglasgow has always supported the tram.

 

That's big of you mate, all the way from the West coast.

 

 

A very valid point. It's been an absolute nightmare living in Edinburgh the last six years.

Edited October 14, 2013 by scott_jambo

[jamboinglasgow]

Jamboinglasgow has always supported the tram.

 

That's big of you mate, all the way from the West coast.

 

I was living in Edinburgh between 2009 and 2012, when things were really hitting the skids, and lived in Edinburgh for most of the time it was initially being proposed which did bring real flack against myself, so I have lived in this city when it was having a tough time of it. When I have lived in Glasgow seems to be when it has been starting to pick up pace and things are happening.

Edited October 14, 2013 by jamboinglasgow

[JamboJay]

I think that one of the problems with Lothian Buses operating outwith the City (S Queensferry, Livingston, Haddington, maybe) is that at the time of the original bus deregulation back in the 80's/90's they did run buses out there and of course First Bus ran services in direct competition in the city as they were entitled to do. This inevitably caused endless bus jams at all the choke points in town, Princes St at the Walter Scott monument., bottom of Lothian Road, Haymarket and so on. The only way out I seem to recall was for there to be a gentleman's agreement not to step on each others natural ground.

 

I might be wrong though.

[scott_jambo]

I was living in Edinburgh between 2009 and 2012, when things were really hitting the skids, and lived in Edinburgh for most of the time it was initially being proposed which did bring real flack against myself, so I have lived in this city when it was having a tough time of it. When I have lived in Glasgow seems to be when it has been starting to pick up pace.

 

Your username has lied to us all that time.

[jamboinglasgow]

Your username has lied to us all that time.

 

 

Well strictly its true at the moment as I am back in Glasgow, and when I first joined JKB I was in Glasgow (my name derived from my BBC football message board name jambo stuck in Glasgow, but felt that was too long here,) but I am a born and raised Edinburgher.

Edited October 14, 2013 by jamboinglasgow

[dobmisterdobster]

I think everyone in Edinburgh would love a subway network. Unfortunately the volcanic rock makes this impossible so we're stuck with shan trams.

 

Edinburgh is not a big enough city to make a subway viable.

[Tommy Wiseau]

Plot holes all over his story, Scott.

 

I find it absolutely incredible that people can have witnessed the city going broke, getting churned up for the best part of a decade, seen their services suffer to pay for it, seen the project get scaled back to the point of embarrassment, seen local businesses go under, watched costs spiral beyond control and still sit and say (from the comfort of another city) that they support it.

 

Who is actually going to get use out of it who wouldn't have gotten the same (or better) service from an existing bus route? Not JiG, because he's in Glasgow giving it his full support

[jamboinglasgow]

Plot holes all over his story, Scott.

 

I find it absolutely incredible that people can have witnessed the city going broke, getting churned up for the best part of a decade, seen their services suffer to pay for it, seen the project get scaled back to the point of embarrassment, seen local businesses go under, watched costs spiral beyond control and still sit and say (from the comfort of another city) that they support it.

 

Who is actually going to get use out of it who wouldn't have gotten the same (or better) service from an existing bus route? Not JiG, because he's in Glasgow giving it his full support

 

So what your saying, is despite living in Edinburgh most life, living there while some of the worst parts of the works were going on and facing the same travel problems as others, and despite wanting to living in Edinburgh again and mainly being in Glasgow for the purposes of getting work, I now not allowed to have an opinion on it. Thanks Tommy.

[DETTY29]

Didn't Dublin build a ?2bn airport road link and the first underpass ftom the airport was lower than the average articulated lorry height?

 

PS their tram system seems pretty good. Mind you Dublin is a big city compared to Edinburgh.

Edited October 15, 2013 by DETTY29

[NotVincentGuerain]

hopefully the buses to tynecastle will be easier soon. it's ok getting there, getting back is awful.

 

the whole tram project is a lesson in poor planning.

[Coco]

Evening News in anti-trams story shock!

 

 

Well I suppose you can take it that they haven't carried out the work to the required standard.

 

The concrete slab has started cracking apart before the 70 tonne road trains start running on it. Would seem certain that more incompetence will be revealed.

 

Where's the public inquiry into this disaster?

[davemclaren]

 

 

 

Well I suppose you can take it that they haven't carried out the work to the required standard.

 

The concrete slab has started cracking apart before the 70 tonne road trains start running on it. Would seem certain that more incompetence will be revealed.

 

Where's the public inquiry into this disaster?

 

Teething troubles.

[leginten]

 

Plot holes all over his story, Scott.

 

I find it absolutely incredible that people can have witnessed the city going broke, getting churned up for the best part of a decade, seen their services suffer to pay for it, seen the project get scaled back to the point of embarrassment, seen local businesses go under, watched costs spiral beyond control and still sit and say (from the comfort of another city) that they support it.

 

Who is actually going to get use out of it who wouldn't have gotten the same (or better) service from an existing bus route? Not JiG, because he's in Glasgow giving it his full support

 

Meanwhile the city's roads and pavements continue their gradual return to nature. Where the eye should be contemplating the architectural beauty and spectacular vistas of this wonderful city, it is now inevitably drawn to the hideous patchwork of potholes, botched repairs and faded coloured play-mat markings that constitutes our road network, even in the middle of what the council presumably hopes will remain Unesco World Heritage Sites.

 

Of course there will be no money to rectify the situation - not now that they've blown the best part of a billion quid they didn't have on half a tram line and are cutting essential services all over the shop.

 

Coco is right - a public enquiry into this utter madness needs to be held.

[scott_jambo]

The roads are an absolute disgrace.

Left my exhaust hanging off a few months back.

Edited October 15, 2013 by scott_jambo

[Hambone]

I think everyone in Edinburgh would love a subway network. Unfortunately the volcanic rock makes this impossible so we're stuck with shan trams.

 

They could do it back in the day. (1847)

http://www.subbrit.o...nel/index.shtml

 

Edited October 15, 2013 by Hambone

[leginten]

Inquiry.

[PortyJambo]

Evening News in anti-trams story shock!

 

Shock, horror, a tram being tested for the first time on a line is going slowly with contractors making sure it's all ok.

[Ray Gin]

Are Dalkeith and S Queensferry 'the sticks'?

 

Absolutely. Bat country IMO.

[Back of the Bus]

I think that one of the problems with Lothian Buses operating outwith the City (S Queensferry, Livingston, Haddington, maybe) is that at the time of the original bus deregulation back in the 80's/90's they did run buses out there and of course First Bus ran services in direct competition in the city as they were entitled to do. This inevitably caused endless bus jams at all the choke points in town, Princes St at the Walter Scott monument., bottom of Lothian Road, Haymarket and so on. The only way out I seem to recall was for there to be a gentleman's agreement not to step on each others natural ground.

 

I might be wrong though.

LRT had a service going out through Broxburn / Livingston and all the way out to Armadale. Then SMT started running Edinburgh services. I think loss of revenue on these new routes led them to broker an agreement rather than it being purely traffic based.

[hughesie27]

Not sure if posted but I see West Maitland road is open for traffic again. When will Shandwick place be re-opened?

[the general]

Not sure if posted but I see West Maitland road is open for traffic again. When will Shandwick place be re-opened?

not sure but they are working really hard to get it open ... should be soon going by how quickly they managed Haymarket etc