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Edinburgh Trams Farce Continues

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CavySlaveJambo

Have tickets for luggage over a certain size and announce the maximum dimensions so people are not left in the dark

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hughesie27

Anyone wearing a H1b5 top should be served with lifetime bans. Mind you they are also likely to be the ones who have 3 kids with them and a particularly annoying ringtone and ought be at school instead of skiving off.

 

Surely Leigh Griiifthchsh can afford a car?

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Dunks

Have tickets for luggage over a certain size and announce the maximum dimensions so people are not left in the dark

 

Should the same apply to people?

 

 

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Radioactive Mince

you keep the machines but instead have plain clothes ticket checkers. at the start they hammer all non payers and make it known this will happen / publicise anybody caught then folk will be shitting it and hence always buy a ticket. Ongoing spot checks will keep folk in line.

Budapest.

 

Seems to work well enough there on the trams, a similar method. I think they also have uniformed checkers though.

 

EDIT: It's a bit of both - plain-ish clothed folk with blue armbands after a google search to check if my memory was playing tricks, whch it was slightly.

Edited by Radioactive Mince

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Radioactive Mince

I keep hitting quote instead of edit :sob:

Edited by Radioactive Mince

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Tazio

Budapest.

 

Seems to work well enough there on the trams, a similar method. I think they also have uniformed checkers though.

 

EDIT: It's a bit of both - plain-ish clothed folk with blue armbands after a google search to check if my memory was playing tricks, whch it was slightly.

 

Bloody confusing if they get you as next to no-one speaks english to explain why you are being harassed by a stranger.

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davemclaren

If it's gonna be anything like waiting for a train to pass by at a level crossing, it sure will. If it's more akin to simply waiting at a traffic light, then there are gonna be a few car-tram collisions. Edinburgh drivers are 'tarded enough already (probably Fifers commuting to be fair eh).

 

It's light rail so the lights are like a bus crossing. No greater chance of crashing into a tram at a crossing than hitting a bus surely? Out continental chums seem to manage it quite easily.

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harrykim

Erm, Britain?

 

Really? Vile.

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Tommy Wiseau

 

 

It's light rail so the lights are like a bus crossing. No greater chance of crashing into a tram at a crossing than hitting a bus surely? Out continental chums seem to manage it quite easily.

 

Our continental chums managed to build tram systems that had more than 1/3 of a line as well though, so...

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Coco

It's light rail so the lights are like a bus crossing. No greater chance of crashing into a tram at a crossing than hitting a bus surely? Out continental chums seem to manage it quite easily.

 

If I remember rightly one of the pathetic 'business' propaganda cases for the tram line had an expected higher level of fatalities and other accidents than in a 'no tram' case.

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Foxydebs

Latest on the trams is that a new set of by-laws regarding travelling on the trams is about to be approved by the council.

 

There is to be a conductor and driver on each tram which wasn't part of the now long forgotten business plan where there were to be on street ticket machines with a number of conductors moving from tram to tram doing ticketing spot checks.

 

Now not only will the conductors be issuing tickets on the trams they will also have the powers to fine people up to ?1000 for infringement of the new rules of travel which will include

 

- Wearing an offensive t-shirt

- Wearing clothes that might make the tram dirty

- Your dog is too big

- Your luggage is too big (bearing in mind that they are running from the airport)

- Being drunk on a tram

 

Additionally you can almost guarantee the type of jobsworths that will get the conductor jobs and the trams will be a near riot every single day!

 

At least the type of tubes that work as traffic wardens will have competition as the most hated professional a***hole!

 

I live in Sheffield and work as a conductor on our trams. Initially when South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive ran the trams they had ticket machines and validating machines on platforms, but they were vandalised and people often chanced getting on without a ticket. When they realised money was been lost by having the ticket machines they got rid of them and had a conductor on every tram and in the rush hour we sometimes have two connductors on a tram. We can't fine people ?1000. The only dogs that can travel on our trams are assistance dogs and people can't bring pushbikes on. I don't see myself as a jobsworth and we don't have a near riot every day.

A lot of people were against the tram in sheffield initially due to the amount of engineering works needed to get it up and running, but a lolt of people make use of it now. So there may be light at the end of the tunnel for you guys up there.

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leginten

 

 

 

I live in Sheffield and work as a conductor on our trams. Initially when South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive ran the trams they had ticket machines and validating machines on platforms, but they were vandalised and people often chanced getting on without a ticket. When they realised money was been lost by having the ticket machines they got rid of them and had a conductor on every tram and in the rush hour we sometimes have two connductors on a tram. We can't fine people ?1000. The only dogs that can travel on our trams are assistance dogs and people can't bring pushbikes on. I don't see myself as a jobsworth and we don't have a near riot every day.

A lot of people were against the tram in sheffield initially due to the amount of engineering works needed to get it up and running, but a lolt of people make use of it now. So there may be light at the end of the tunnel for you guys up there.

 

One of the reasons why it will be impossible for Edinburgh and Scotland in general to achieve an integrated transport system where one ticket will take you on as many separate bus or tram journeys as required to reach your destination is that a huge proportion of the general public simply could not be trusted to purchase tickets. It's a sad state of affairs. Other European countries manage to operate systems without barriers and conductors where failure to produce your ticket for an inspector will result in a fixed penalty. I can imagine the inspecting part being a fairly thankless task when faced with loud, threatening neds more likely to attack you than accept the penalty.

 

 

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dobmisterdobster

- Wearing an offensive t-shirt

- Wearing clothes that might make the tram dirty

- Your dog is too big

- Your luggage is too big (bearing in mind that they are running from the airport)

- Being drunk on a tram

 

You have a point with the luggage argument.

But everything else I agree with 100%. Especially being drunk on the tram.

Maybe some people don't want their journey ruined by drunken douchebags.

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Ulysses

- Wearing an offensive t-shirt

- Wearing clothes that might make the tram dirty

- Your dog is too big

- Your luggage is too big (bearing in mind that they are running from the airport)

- Being drunk on a tram

 

Not sure what the fuss is about.

 

There's no offensive clothing rule on the trams here, but aside from that more or less all of the rules that will exist on the tram in Edinburgh have operated here for the last 9 years without any problems.

 

Banning soiling, littering, spitting, peeing and taking dumps on the trams sounds perfectly reasonable, in fairness. :eek:

 

The trams here don't have conductors; instead they have inspectors who descend on random trams in swarms to find ticket dodgers. Conductors are inefficient and wasteful.

 

Are pets allowed on public transport in Scotland? The trams here allow no animals at all aside from assistance and therapy dogs.

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Gorgiewave

Not sure what the fuss is about.

 

There's no offensive clothing rule on the trams here, but aside from that more or less all of the rules that will exist on the tram in Edinburgh have operated here for the last 9 years without any problems.

 

Banning soiling, littering, spitting, peeing and taking dumps on the trams sounds perfectly reasonable, in fairness. :eek:

 

The trams here don't have conductors; instead they have inspectors who descend on random trams in swarms to find ticket dodgers. Conductors are inefficient and wasteful.

 

Are pets allowed on public transport in Scotland? The trams here allow no animals at all aside from assistance and therapy dogs.

 

What counts as "offensive clothing"? An "Osama is my homeboy" or "Don't emigrate: look what happened to Hibs" t-shirt? Or what?

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Chester™

The trams here don't have conductors; instead they have inspectors who descend on random trams in swarms to find ticket dodgers. Conductors are inefficient and wasteful.

 

 

 

Thats the same in the trams I've been on the Czech Republic and Slovakia. Randomly appear and on the spot fines if you've tried to pull a fast one. Some do it with no issues, some do with the aggression levels you might expect.

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Chester™

 

Thats the same in the trams I've been on the Czech Republic and Slovakia. Randomly appear and on the spot fines if you've tried to pull a fast one. Some do it with no issues, some do with the aggression levels you might expect.

 

And I forgot the replies from passengers are similar!

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IMac

Not sure what the fuss is about.

 

There's no offensive clothing rule on the trams here, but aside from that more or less all of the rules that will exist on the tram in Edinburgh have operated here for the last 9 years without any problems.

 

Banning soiling, littering, spitting, peeing and taking dumps on the trams sounds perfectly reasonable, in fairness. :eek:

 

The trams here don't have conductors; instead they have inspectors who descend on random trams in swarms to find ticket dodgers. Conductors are inefficient and wasteful.

 

Are pets allowed on public transport in Scotland? The trams here allow no animals at all aside from assistance and therapy dogs.

dogs are allowed on buses and trains so why not trams? however I dont really need to take the dog to the airport...

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peter_hmfc

This whole thing. :vrface: :vrface: :vrface: :vrface: :vrface:

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Carl Spackler

The offensive t-shirt thing is nothing new. I remember a picture in the old music magazine Select of a young lad getting lifted at Glastonbury for wearing a t-shirt emblazoned with the slogan "Mavis Riley takes it up the sh***er".

 

Still makes me laugh.

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Ulysses

What counts as "offensive clothing"?

 

That seems to be a peculiarly Scottish (or maybe British) concern. We don't have that rule, but on the other hand Dublin trams don't allow dogs, cats, canaries, goldfish, goats, cows and the like.

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Nelly Terraces

I wouldn't worry too much. Give it 3 years and the entire thing will have lost so much money they'll be pulled. An utter waste of time that has caused so much damage to the economy & reputation of Edinburgh. Very sad.

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PsychocAndy

Will I be able to use my Spacca pass on the trams too?

Also I am slightly upset that all you tram spotters have been blinded by the tram shitstorm to notice we have a newbie contribute called Foxydebs who was a conductor and we have not had this

:worthless_thread: .

Shame on you all.

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Dunks

'Mon the trams :)

 

a.baa-tram-piglet.jpg

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Rudy T

How many Edinburgh residents will actually use these trams?

 

Given the limited route, they pretty much eliminate at least 80% of the city.

 

How much will they be, more expensive than the Airport bus I suspect?

 

And still no one seems to have been held to account for this farce.

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Dunks

I'll use them :thumbsup:

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Rudy T

I'll use them :thumbsup:

 

I won't :thumbsup:

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Tiberius Stinkfinger

Is the Airport bus staying ?

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frankblack

Is the Airport bus staying ?

 

You would think it would since the tram route misses the entire Murrayfield to Maybury route where several big hotels are and numerous b&bs. Knowing the council their advice will be get the tram out to Haymarket then a bus back to the Marriot at Maybury.

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Gershwin

What's the current status with the trams? When are they actually going to run?

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Say What Again

You mean like traffic lights do now for cars, wow that will add so much more congestion.

 

Shocking scenes in every street within a 5 mile radius of the city centre, when traffic had to stop for 60 seconds to let a tram past.

 

Giant_traffic_jam.jpg.jpg

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Matthew Le Tissier

Are they not wanting the trams to go out to Dalkeith?

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Prince Buaben

Are they not wanting the trams to go out to Dalkeith?

 

Yeah via the new town of Shawfair(which is also getting a station as part of the Waverly link)

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Toxteth O'Grady

 

I wouldn't worry too much. Give it 3 years and the entire thing will have lost so much money they'll be pulled. An utter waste of time that has caused so much damage to the economy & reputation of Edinburgh. Very sad.

 

They will try to subsidise it with ever increasing bus fares.

 

It will take a fair bit of kicking and screaming by Edinburgh residents but as you say it will eventually get scrapped.

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Coco

They will try to subsidise it with ever increasing bus fares.

 

It will take a fair bit of kicking and screaming by Edinburgh residents but as you say it will eventually get scrapped.

 

I don't think so. Even though there will be a financing cost of tens of millions every year (which will be paid whether or not the half line operates), an operating loss of tens of millions of pounds each year to be financed and eventually a tram replacement cost at the end of their life - perhaps a cost of ?20-30m each year to be found by Council taxpayers the Council will continue to operate the half line. Council assets will be sold to fund it; services cut from the buses and other Council services (the Council tax in Edinburgh brings in c. ?200m pa by the way) and the bus fares will rise to subsidise it.

 

The useful idiots (tramspotters/the 'greens' etc) who have supported this catastrophe will continue to support the corporate/consultant leeches who have coined it in from the project as they plan to raid the pockets of the people of Edinburgh for more lines too. This is why the SNP Government and the Council forced the half line to go to the centre of town - and why the Council interpreted stopping at St Andrew Square as stopping on York Place (with all the implications that building ramps and the likes will have on other traffic there).

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H2

They will try to subsidise it with ever increasing bus fares.

 

It will take a fair bit of kicking and screaming by Edinburgh residents but as you say it will eventually get scrapped.

Bus fares have already increased by 50% since the tram project began. Granted 5p of that will be to cover wage increases and fuel increases and general running costs. Services which ran at a loss have been stopped and the 18 route has been partially handed over, with substantial price increase, to First bus. Further increases in bus fares will come to subsidise the trams.

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Dave de le Noir

This is the bit I don't get.

 

It's clear to anyone with half a brain that the corporations and consultants behind this have been ripping the utter pish out the council, and by default the people of Edinburgh.

 

While ultimately its the politicians who must accept the brunt of the responsibility, I'm amazed their hasn't been more anger directed at those spending their time dreaming up more ways to cream off another few million rather than actually building the bloody thing.

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Gorgiewave

I never saw the need for this. A good number of the buses in Edinburgh are half empty outside peak hours. They could cut out a lot of the buses and have plenty of room for everybody.

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dobmisterdobster
I wouldn't worry too much. Give it 3 years and the entire thing will have lost so much money they'll be pulled. An utter waste of time that has caused so much damage to the economy & reputation of Edinburgh. Very sad.

 

Most public transport is subsidised.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Glasgow Subway loses money. Nobody uses it.

 

The Trams aren't going anywhere.

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Geoff Kilpatrick

 

 

Most public transport is subsidised.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Glasgow Subway loses money. Nobody uses it.

 

The Trams aren't going anywhere.

Your last sentence is perfect.

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davemclaren

Your last sentence is perfect.

 

Apart from York Place or the Airport, depending on which way you are going.

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Dunks

From memory, every rail service in Scotland is subsidised with the exception of the Edinburgh - Glasgow service.

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dobmisterdobster
From memory, every rail service in Scotland is subsidised with the exception of the Edinburgh - Glasgow service.

 

Same for most of Europe. SCNF and Deutsche Bahn are both subsided.

10 billion euros a year in DB's case.

Next time someone on here mentions the "free" travel bundled with every Bundesliga ticket, remember who is paying for it.

 

I don't believe that a tram link between the city centre and the airport will be canned after only 3 years considering that Scotrail is heavily subsidised and we still have the Glasgow Subway and sleeper trains etc...

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Coco

There are still traces of the ideology that steel wheels 'open up' a country. Remnants of the idea that the enormous growth in the UK and the USA in the 19thC was allowed and driven by the railways. But of course those gains are not available in a hugely developed economy which has gone far beyond the structure of the 19thC. Yet this is ignored by pork barrel politicians.

 

So, for example, despite cost benefit ratios below 1x (i.e. the State burning money) on the likes of the Borders railway or Edinburgh trams the consultant/corporate leeches are able to tap into public sector cash. And all cheered on by the useful idiot tramspotters/trainspotters.

 

There is no chance that the Edinburgh tram half line will be scrapped. There will be an effort to gouge the taxpayers by building more!

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Paolo

Apart from York Place or the Airport, depending on which way you are going.

 

They will not be going to the airport though, simply reasonably near it.

Edited by Simon Says

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Say What Again

They will not be going to the airport though, simply reasonably near it.

 

See the link from earlier in the thread. It looks like within about 100 yards of the front door?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-20325141

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dobmisterdobster

 

See the link from earlier in the thread. It looks like within about 100 yards of the front door?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-20325141

 

Why are you defending the trams? Are you a councillor?

 

Seriously, I get why people hate the trams. I completely get it.

But the fact that they are banning obnoxious behaviour onboard isn't really something to get angry about. Stop whining about every last detail.

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Say What Again

Why are you defending the trams? Are you a councillor?

 

Seriously, I get why people hate the trams. I completely get it.

But the fact that they are banning obnoxious behaviour onboard isn't really something to get angry about. Stop whining about every last detail.

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I assume the first line is sarcasm, because I'm not on the brink of combustion about the trams?

 

I'll also assume the second part isn't directed at me at all.

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dobmisterdobster

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I assume the first line is sarcasm, because I'm not on the brink of combustion about the trams?

 

I'll also assume the second part isn't directed at me at all.

 

Correct on both.

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Dunks

I'll defend the trams in as far as I genuinely believe they are a good idea. However, the implementation has been a complete and utter shambles.

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