davemclaren Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dunks said: Not once Phase III is built Correct. Straight up to Roseburn. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) Airlink #200 bus goes from Newhaven to the Airport in about 40 minutes. Edited February 8, 2019 by Cade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 How are folk feeling about the trams service in general? I was back in Edinburgh in June last year. I took one trip, seemed clean and comfy. Wee bit slow maybe. My only gripe is when I tried to cross the street up Haymarket. Felt like I was taking my life in my hands trying to get over to the station side from Platform 5 bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said: How are folk feeling about the trams service in general? I was back in Edinburgh in June last year. I took one trip, seemed clean and comfy. Wee bit slow maybe. My only gripe is when I tried to cross the street up Haymarket. Felt like I was taking my life in my hands trying to get over to the station side from Platform 5 bar. Pedestrian crossing lights?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 1 minute ago, davemclaren said: Pedestrian crossing lights?? Pretty radical stuff right there, Dave! Even using those I still found myself looking the wrong way, just not sure what was going on. Says more about me than anything else I suppose. That and the libations, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Just now, Bridge of Djoum said: Pretty radical stuff right there, Dave! Even using those I still found myself looking the wrong way, just not sure what was going on. Says more about me than anything else I suppose. That and the libations, of course. The libations never help imo. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Just now, davemclaren said: The libations never help imo. ? Certainly not in terms of crossing the street! They help with many other things, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 28 minutes ago, Cade said: Airlink #200 bus goes from Newhaven to the Airport in about 40 minutes. The tram was never meant to be the fast way from the city centre (or indeed Leith) to the Airport - that was to be EARL (which was cancelled to help pay for the dualling of the A9 - cost £3billion). The tram was to take large numbers of passengers off increasingly overloaded bus routes to the rapidly expanding areas of Edinburgh Park etc and also down the mostly densely populated part of the country - Leith Walk. Passenger numbers on the existing stretch are rising by about 10% annually (extra services have had to be introduced at peak times) and extending down LW to Newhaven will double the numbers using it. If I read it correctly the borrowing to pay for the cost of the extension will be paid from fares since it is now running at a profit (earlier than expected) I remember confident predictions that the airport bus (the 100) would be forced off in order to give the tram a face-saving monopoly. There’s now what 3? 4? express bus routes to the airport along with the tram. Confident predictions too that the (envy of the country) bus service would be brought to its knees. Instead it, too, goes from strength to strength with massive new investment. The population of Edinburgh is forecast to grow by 150,000 over the next 25 years. These people are going to have to get around somehow. Edinburgh is doing what progressive, forward-thining and ambitious cities are doing around the world. Maybe we should just stay a dour wee provincial backwater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 43 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said: How are folk feeling about the trams service in general? I was back in Edinburgh in June last year. I took one trip, seemed clean and comfy. Wee bit slow maybe. My only gripe is when I tried to cross the street up Haymarket. Felt like I was taking my life in my hands trying to get over to the station side from Platform 5 bar. Seems to be doing well https://edinburghtrams.com/news/operator-of-the-year and increasingly popular with the travelling public too https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-44574819 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenbank2 Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Just for the record, I live nowhere near the current tramline or any proposed line. So no axe to grind there. I get the discussion on whether it is a good idea - this is right and a worthy debate. What I don't get is the cost debate. What should it cost? £1? £1m? £1Bn? What's this in contrast to Crossrail? HS1/2? refurbishing the Palace of Westminster? Queensferry crossing? Infrastructure projects are expensive. This proposal will run the tram to most densely populated part of the city and then on to Newhaven which has a massive regeneration investment confirmed. It is IMO a good proposal, so comes down to what is the right cost. However, cost should not be used as a polical football. There are those here who would object if it costs nothing. Interestingly, what INFRASTRUCTURE projects should £200M be spend on in the CoE if not the tram extension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Greenbank2 said: Just for the record, I live nowhere near the current tramline or any proposed line. So no axe to grind there. I get the discussion on whether it is a good idea - this is right and a worthy debate. What I don't get is the cost debate. What should it cost? £1? £1m? £1Bn? What's this in contrast to Crossrail? HS1/2? refurbishing the Palace of Westminster? Queensferry crossing? Infrastructure projects are expensive. This proposal will run the tram to most densely populated part of the city and then on to Newhaven which has a massive regeneration investment confirmed. It is IMO a good proposal, so comes down to what is the right cost. However, cost should not be used as a polical football. There are those here who would object if it costs nothing. Interestingly, what INFRASTRUCTURE projects should £200M be spend on in the CoE if not the tram extension? They could give us a few quid to fill in the corners with enough left over to erect 2, 51ft statues of Romanov and Pressley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 2 hours ago, FWJ said: The tram was never meant to be the fast way from the city centre (or indeed Leith) to the Airport - that was to be EARL (which was cancelled to help pay for the dualling of the A9 - cost £3billion). The tram was to take large numbers of passengers off increasingly overloaded bus routes to the rapidly expanding areas of Edinburgh Park etc and also down the mostly densely populated part of the country - Leith Walk. Passenger numbers on the existing stretch are rising by about 10% annually (extra services have had to be introduced at peak times) and extending down LW to Newhaven will double the numbers using it. If I read it correctly the borrowing to pay for the cost of the extension will be paid from fares since it is now running at a profit (earlier than expected) I remember confident predictions that the airport bus (the 100) would be forced off in order to give the tram a face-saving monopoly. There’s now what 3? 4? express bus routes to the airport along with the tram. Confident predictions too that the (envy of the country) bus service would be brought to its knees. Instead it, too, goes from strength to strength with massive new investment. The population of Edinburgh is forecast to grow by 150,000 over the next 25 years. These people are going to have to get around somehow. Edinburgh is doing what progressive, forward-thining and ambitious cities are doing around the world. Maybe we should just stay a dour wee provincial backwater. It will be a major boost to Leith still a relatively poor area. And it becomes nearer to being a proper system rather than one line. Will start the debate for other routes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 On 10/08/2017 at 02:00, luckyBatistuta said: On 09/08/2017 at 15:35, frankblack said: ?165m - where is this coming from? No doubt speed cameras to extort money from drivers going over 20mph anywhere in Edinburgh. I assume they have cleared the debt for the last tram project and aren't subsidizing the tram any more? Guaranteed to be way more than ?165, but these fekrs will stop at nothing when it comes to wasting our money. It will be more average speed cameras going forward imo. They stuck them up on Old Dalkeith Road, using a fatal as a reason for implementing them, yet it was a stolen car being chased by a police car, which could have happened anywhere. They just wanted to get them in without an outcry from the public and who would complain after there had just been such a tragic accident. Now they have managed to get their first set up and running on a residential road, there will be more popping up within the city. A bit off topic, but the average speed cameras on Old Dalkeith Road were placed following on-going monitoring of driver behaviour on that stretch. The placing of the cameras was agreed before the incident you refer to and they don't cover the scene of the accident either. More may well appear in the City, but only as a result of detailed analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 5 hours ago, Bridge of Djoum said: They could give us a few quid to fill in the corners with enough left over to erect 2, 51ft statues of Romanov and Pressley. Think the trams would probably be less controversial that that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Dunks said: A bit off topic, but the average speed cameras on Old Dalkeith Road were placed following on-going monitoring of driver behaviour on that stretch. The placing of the cameras was agreed before the incident you refer to and they don't cover the scene of the accident either. More may well appear in the City, but only as a result of detailed analysis. I read somewhere that they stated because of two fatalities on that stretch and the nurse was the reason for those cameras going up. When did the cameras go up, a year after the nurse was killed. The nurse was killed by a stolen vehicle. They said that three people had been seriously injured, or killed previously on this stretch. These people who were killled, were two lads in the front and the lad who was serious was in the back of which was also a stolen car with the driver having no driving licence. There are plenty of long stretches of roads that you could build up speed on, what makes the driving behaviour on that stretch worse than others roads in Edinburgh. I drive this road every day, multiple times and it’s no worse than any other long stretch in Edinburgh. Now they have managed to push this through, there will be more. It’s yet another money making exercise imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Average Speed Camera Edinburgh Quote Following a national site selection exercise, an average speed camera system has been agreed as the most effective and appropriate intervention. In the three years 2013-15, there were 6 injury collisions on this stretch of Old Dalkeith Road alone, including 3 resulting in serious injury or fatality. Speed surveys have also been carried out which indicate speed is a continuing concern with a high proportion of vehicles travelling above the speed limit. I agree that this will likely increase the number of installations, but if it improves safety, then why not? Driver Behaviour Transformed Quote Prior to the cameras being installed, less than 40% of the 15,000 vehicles a day which use the road were adhering to the speed limit. We now find that on average, speeding offenders have been reduced to only 2 per day and in the last year nobody has been injured on the section of Old Dalkeith Road covered by the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Dunks said: Average Speed Camera Edinburgh I agree that this will likely increase the number of installations, but if it improves safety, then why not? Driver Behaviour Transformed I’m all for safety, but I still believe making money is a big part of this for them. If they really care about safety, get speed cameras up outside all the schools, not up beside Corstorphine/Balgreen, Old Dalkeith Road, Telford Road etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 1 hour ago, luckyBatistuta said: I’m all for safety, but I still believe making money is a big part of this for them. If they really care about safety, get speed cameras up outside all the schools, not up beside Corstorphine/Balgreen, Old Dalkeith Road, Telford Road etc Potential income is not a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah O Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 18 hours ago, FWJ said: The tram was never meant to be the fast way from the city centre (or indeed Leith) to the Airport - that was to be EARL (which was cancelled to help pay for the dualling of the A9 - cost £3billion). The tram was to take large numbers of passengers off increasingly overloaded bus routes to the rapidly expanding areas of Edinburgh Park etc and also down the mostly densely populated part of the country - Leith Walk. Passenger numbers on the existing stretch are rising by about 10% annually (extra services have had to be introduced at peak times) and extending down LW to Newhaven will double the numbers using it. If I read it correctly the borrowing to pay for the cost of the extension will be paid from fares since it is now running at a profit (earlier than expected) I remember confident predictions that the airport bus (the 100) would be forced off in order to give the tram a face-saving monopoly. There’s now what 3? 4? express bus routes to the airport along with the tram. Confident predictions too that the (envy of the country) bus service would be brought to its knees. Instead it, too, goes from strength to strength with massive new investment. The population of Edinburgh is forecast to grow by 150,000 over the next 25 years. These people are going to have to get around somehow. Edinburgh is doing what progressive, forward-thining and ambitious cities are doing around the world. Maybe we should just stay a dour wee provincial backwater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glottis Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 I'm concerned about the cost. Having a fancy toy train kit doesn't make us a progressive city. When I read stories about Nursery teachers being cut due to money concerns- I think that's the type of thing a "backwater" place would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Glottis said: I'm concerned about the cost. Having a fancy toy train kit doesn't make us a progressive city. When I read stories about Nursery teachers being cut due to money concerns- I think that's the type of thing a "backwater" place would do. You don't bother yourself and might not notice the big increases in population. And business expanding alongside. Might be a problem in a few years though. It is fair question about funding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 31 minutes ago, Glottis said: I'm concerned about the cost. Having a fancy toy train kit doesn't make us a progressive city. When I read stories about Nursery teachers being cut due to money concerns- I think that's the type of thing a "backwater" place would do. The tourist tax will cover the cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Glottis said: I'm concerned about the cost. Having a fancy toy train kit doesn't make us a progressive city. When I read stories about Nursery teachers being cut due to money concerns- I think that's the type of thing a "backwater" place would do. The extension will be self-financing and will not take money from other council services. http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/2616/councillors_to_scrutinise_trams_to_newhaven_final_business_case_ahead_of_march_decision Edited February 9, 2019 by FWJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, FWJ said: The extension will be self-financing and will not take money from other council services. http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/2616/councillors_to_scrutinise_trams_to_newhaven_final_business_case_ahead_of_march_decision You are assuming the cost won't skyrocket as it has done before with this incompetent council. The latest cost estimate rise has left me extremely scepticial. What do you think the council will do if the price doubles or quadruples? a) Walk away b) Go ahead regardless and cut services to fund it. Edited February 9, 2019 by frankblack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 It’s worthwhile going back to the very start of this thread to read some of the outlandish predictions and scare-mongering hearsay rumours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 22 minutes ago, FWJ said: It’s worthwhile going back to the very start of this thread to read some of the outlandish predictions and scare-mongering hearsay rumours. Its just as well that they delivered that on budget and haven't been cutting council services. Oh wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-46971492 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-46048747 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-tayside-central-42802535 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-46074241 Must be all those tramlines in Alves, Achitilbuie, Alloa and Annan Budget cuts are not unique to Edinburgh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, FWJ said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-46971492 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-46048747 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-tayside-central-42802535 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-46074241 Must be all those tramlines in Alves, Achitilbuie, Alloa and Annan Budget cuts are not unique to Edinburgh. No, but these councils are much smaller or have to cover bigger geographic areas per population. Did any of those councils overspend on big capital projects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 What has the size of the council got to do with it? (There’s only one council in Scotland bigger and their finances are hardly rosy https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/worse-off-council-budget-cuts-14489506.amp) Just like the huge new buses that are being bought (remember how bus services were going to be brought to their knees by trams?) Edinburgh is investing in its future transport needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, FWJ said: What has the size of the council got to do with it? (There’s only one council in Scotland bigger and their finances are hardly rosy https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/worse-off-council-budget-cuts-14489506.amp) Just like the huge new buses that are being bought (remember how bus services were going to be brought to their knees by trams?) Edinburgh is investing in its future transport needs. As someone who now has to commute to work by bus after changing jobs, the trams have caused gridlock in the city centre with additional lights holding up traffic or the trams holding lights in their direction at green. Any new tram line should be going to the hospital which is in the middle of nowhere and can take about two hours to commute to by bus from the north west of the city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 46 minutes ago, frankblack said: As someone who now has to commute to work by bus after changing jobs, the trams have caused gridlock in the city centre with additional lights holding up traffic or the trams holding lights in their direction at green. Any new tram line should be going to the hospital which is in the middle of nowhere and can take about two hours to commute to by bus from the north west of the city. I take the bus and the tram through the city centre. Sometimes I walk and occasionally I drive. I rarely (can’t remember the last time) see ‘gridlock’ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gridlock I absolutely agree that there should be a tram line down to the RIE and Bio-Quarter at Little France and that the Granton spur (indeed North Edinburgh Circle) should be built too. Building the Newhaven extension will double the numbers using the tram, increasing their revenue-raising potential and making it easier to ‘pass’ these further lines. The line going down to the Royal was going to be funded by the congestion charge. That was, of course, voted out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 1 hour ago, frankblack said: Any new tram line should be going to the hospital which is in the middle of nowhere and can take about two hours to commute to by bus from the north west of the city. Two hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dunks said: Two hours You tried commuting that by two buses crossing rush hour? I had to do it a couple of years ago when my brother was seriously ill with a life-threatening condition. Clueless comment from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, frankblack said: Clueless comment from you. And usual made up bullshit from you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, frankblack said: You tried commuting that by two buses crossing rush hour? I had to do it a couple of years ago when my brother was seriously ill with a life-threatening condition. Clueless comment from you. I checked from NW Edinburgh (I used Silverknowes as it’s pretty much NW Edin) to the Royal. It shows as 1hr 5mins travelling around 5pm. Of course some days and circumstances may lengthen that (but double it?) but LB timetables are pretty good and if 2 hours was what it usually took, the timetable would reflect that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dunks said: And usual made up bullshit from you And a half-arsed response from you trying to play the man rather than debate the point. Have you tried commuting from the ERI to East Craigs at rush hour by two buses and how long do you think they take? As someone who commutes regularly to the city centre it takes at least 45 minutes to reach Haymarket from East Craigs, so add in time waiting for a connecting bus plus more than that to reach the ERI from the city centre at rush hour. So, are you going to apologise or prove me wrong or try to deflect from the fact you don't know what you are talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, FWJ said: I checked from NW Edinburgh (I used Silverknowes as it’s pretty much NW Edin) to the Royal. It shows as 1hr 5mins travelling around 5pm. Of course some days and circumstances may lengthen that (but double it?) but LB timetables are pretty good and if 2 hours was what it usually took, the timetable would reflect that. I am further out than Silverknowes and two buses are needed, so you have to allow time for waiting for a connecting bus. As I said, it takes 45 mins just to get to Haymarket at rush hour in the morning. If you don't get a connecting bus you add up to 20 minutes wait taking up to two hours on a bad day. I'm giving my experience of what I faced almost every day for a couple of months. Edited February 9, 2019 by frankblack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) Checked again from East Craigs and it’s 1hr 20mins in the morning. East Craigs to Haymarket at around 8am is never timetabled at more than 37mins, usually it’s less but not “at least 45”. You may have to add ‘’up to” 20 minutes taking you “up to” 2 hours “on a bad day”. All sorts of things can extend your journey time, but as a rule it doesn’t take that long. How did we get onto this? Was it that the trams cause gridlock? https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15921862.congestion-levels-improve-though-edinburgh-remains-among-britains-worst/ Fallen by 10% according to this, although clearly still work to do. Hopefully Edinburgh won’t plough a 10 lane motorway through its city centre like Glasgow did. Would be good to see the bypass widened though Edited February 9, 2019 by FWJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 I was in favour of completing the line but the price increase has totally turned that around. I can't see this being accepted by the voting population now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, FWJ said: Checked again from East Craigs and it’s 1hr 20mins in the morning. East Craigs to Haymarket at around 8am is never timetabled at more than 37mins, usually it’s less but not “at least 45”. You may have to add ‘’up to” 20 minutes taking you “up to” 2 hours “on a bad day”. All sorts of things can extend your journey time, but as a rule it doesn’t take that long. How did we get onto this? Was it that the trams cause gridlock? https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15921862.congestion-levels-improve-though-edinburgh-remains-among-britains-worst/ Fallen by 10% according to this, although clearly still work to do. Hopefully Edinburgh won’t plough a 10 lane motorway through its city centre like Glasgow did. Would be good to see the bypass widened though Sorry, but I do the route daily and the time of the bus depends on the number of punters getting on and off, tourists without change etc, and a bus to the Carlton Hotel a couple of weeks back at 8am took just under an hour. Timetables aren't always right. Congestion had little to do with the journey - buses get backed up by other buses - its easy for 3 different buses to stop in sequence at the same bus stops all along the route from Corstorphine. Edited February 9, 2019 by frankblack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 44 minutes ago, frankblack said: So, are you going to apologise or prove me wrong or try to deflect from the fact you don't know what you are talking about? You've already been proven wrong. If it takes you 2 hours every day, then you're doing it wrong. Back on topic, the trams are great. Hopefully this is just the first extension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, frankblack said: Sorry, but I do the route daily and the time of the bus depends on the number of punters getting on and off, tourists without change etc, and a bus to the Carlton Hotel a couple of weeks back at 8am took just under an hour. Timetables aren't always right. Congestion had little to do with the journey - buses get backed up by other buses - its easy for 3 different buses to stop in sequence at the same bus stops all along the route from Corstorphine. Erm The Carlton Hotel is on North Bridge - not Haymarket. The timetables aren’t always right, as I said, but they’re usually pretty good (at least on my route - the 4/44) if longer journey times were the norm the timetable would reflect that. Interesting what you say about time wasted with passengers getting on and off, tourists without change etc. The multiple, wide doors on trams and pay-before-boarding system prevents that kind of thing. And especially interesting that much of the delay is because “buses get backed up by other buses”. This is exactly why trams are needed on Leith Walk, which is close to saturation point with buses. It also rather flies in the face of what many on here call for - more buses rather than trams, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obua Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 3 hours ago, frankblack said: As someone who now has to commute to work by bus after changing jobs, the trams have caused gridlock in the city centre with additional lights holding up traffic or the trams holding lights in their direction at green. Any new tram line should be going to the hospital which is in the middle of nowhere and can take about two hours to commute to by bus from the north west of the city. It’s a good idea going to the hospital eventually,It wouldn’t take to much to convert a smaller single tram into an ambulance to use the lines and get priority.Probably to much forward thinking and simplistic to be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superjack Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 When you look at the tram network in Manchester, a network that is currently having another line added just now, with further extensions still being planned, how come there is not the same uproar there? I think our trams should be extended, with extra routes also added. Maybe Edinburgh council should get in the people who run the Manchester trams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 I spent quite a bit of time in Dublin during the construction of their Tram - the Luas. A bit like here, it was late, over budget and failed to deliver every promised route. I remember in particular the public complaints during the construction phase. Fast forward to now and the Luas has since been extended to 42km and 67 stations with plans to extend further. Perhaps Edinburgh will embrace the trams just as Dublin eventually did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Dunks said: You've already been proven wrong. If it takes you 2 hours every day, then you're doing it wrong. Nope. Two hours is an upper limit but I think I have submitted enough examples of real times as I travel on one of the bus routes daily. 2 hours ago, Dunks said: Back on topic, the trams are great. Hopefully this is just the first extension This extension won't happen. Estimates are already starting to spiral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 22 hours ago, FWJ said: The extension will be self-financing and will not take money from other council services. http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/2616/councillors_to_scrutinise_trams_to_newhaven_final_business_case_ahead_of_march_decision But the buses are being told to gift the tram lengthening project £20M so the Council is lying! What improvements to the bus service could be had for £20M? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said: But the buses are being told to gift the tram lengthening project £20M so the Council is lying! What improvements to the bus service could be had for £20M? The funding from the buses is mentioned in paragraph 5. As another contributor to this thread, who uses the buses very regularly, notes - a lot of the hold ups are caused when “buses get backed up by other buses”. Leith Walk is close to saturation with buses and so trams on this route will take some of the pressure off rather than excacerbating the situation with even more buses. The same contributor also noted hold-ups caused by delays in people getting on and off and the unfamiliar searching for the correct change to pay the driver. Neither of these situations is a problem with trams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 The fact is the trams have proved to be a huge success, better than expected. Many of those opposed to them now (grudgingly perhaps) see that. Which of the predictions of never running, not running to the airport terminal, daily break-downs, daily riots as conductors demand £1000 fines, traffic chaos and tourists and businesses deserting the city etc etc have come to pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 2 hours ago, FWJ said: The fact is the trams have proved to be a huge success, better than expected. Many of those opposed to them now (grudgingly perhaps) see that. Which of the predictions of never running, not running to the airport terminal, daily break-downs, daily riots as conductors demand £1000 fines, traffic chaos and tourists and businesses deserting the city etc etc have come to pass? Never been on one, nearest stop from drumbrae is the gyle centre, nice wee 2 mile walk, to get one. Stick to the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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