What time is 'the back of (insert hour here)'?

[super_vlad]

people who use this ******* daft expression should be shot! if you mean 1/4 to, then just ******* say that!

[BoJack Horseman]

Between the hour and ten minutes past for me.

 

I get that this is the case for a lot of people, I'm looking for a reason why, beyond "that's just the way it is".

[The People's Chimp]

Right this has come up again. Folk are still saying it's just after the hour with absolutely no rhyme or reason. The only explanation seems to be "that's just what it is". This thread hasn't helped, it's just more people saying that's what it is without explaining it logically. There's only 2 ways I can logically break down the phrase "the back of 12".

 

a) If it's 12 o'clock and you put the clock back 10 minutes, it's 11.50. Which means 11.50 is at the back of 12, as you had to put the clock back to get to that point. The back of 12 is 11.50.

 

you see the hour as a whole, and the back of it is the final minutes of the hour. Which would make the back of 12 more like 12.50.

 

Now remember, the phrase is the "the back of 12", 12 is the reference point, and you're meeting at the back of it. You're not meeting when 12 is at the back of you. You're meeting at the back of 12.

 

 

The back of the hour, it's a fairly simple concept.

[Say What Again]

people who use this ******* daft expression should be shot! if you mean 1/4 to, then just ******* say that!

 

And breathe, super_vlad.

 

That's it, take a wee seat and drink this tea. I'll come check on you at the back of 11, see if you've calmed down any.

 

[BoJack Horseman]

 

The back of the hour, it's a fairly simple concept.

 

So the back of 12 is 12.50 then?

[My Left Nut]

The "back of" the hour to me means just after the hour, so say up to 10 past the hour.

[BoJack Horseman]

Go someone stop just repeating the words and actually tell me why it means it. We move forward through time. That's how time works.

[Eric Shin]

12.30

[2NaFish]

See this is where I disagree. Once you go past someone, you're in front of them, and they see your back. So if I'm at the back of someone, they're in front of me. So if I'm 11.50, there's 12 ahead of me, and I'm at the back of it.

 

Say it's a horse race, and the horse called 12 is up the front, and the horse called 11.50 is at the back. 11.50 is at the back of 12.

 

If i walk past you, you're at my back. I'm also at your back. Whatever way you cut it, being at the back of twelve is just after 12.

 

The fact you need convoluted examples and i don't should tell you all you need to know. Comparing it with a horse race is incorrect as all the horses move forward, but in this we're discussing time (which only goes forward) T, and a fixed point in time, PIT, which doesnt move. T goes past PIT and is at PIT's back.

[BoJack Horseman]

If i walk past you, you're at my back. I'm also at your back. Whatever way you cut it, being at the back of twelve is just after 12.

 

The fact you need convoluted examples and i don't should tell you all you need to know. Comparing it with a horse race is incorrect as all the horses move forward, but in this we're discussing time (which only goes forward) T, and a fixed point in time, PIT, which doesnt move. T goes past PIT and is at PIT's back.

 

Please explain that. Unless we're having a duel and walking 10 paces from each other, we can't both be at each others back. We're all going through time in same direction. Forwards. You approach 7.50 on the timeline before you approach 8. So 7.50 is behind 8. Or, at the back of it.

[Socrates]

So the back of 12 is 12.50 then?

 

No. And there doesn't have to be a reason no matter how many times you get upset about it. It's between 12 and about quarter past because that's how people use it.

[BoJack Horseman]

No. And there doesn't have to be a reason no matter how many times you get upset about it. It's between 12 and about quarter past because that's how people use it.

 

So.. "that's just the way it is" then? This is like talking to a christian about god.

[marcus]

It's been nearly two years Bojack, don't let this be the end of you.

 

It just is

 

 

 

[Socrates]

So.. "that's just the way it is" then? This is like talking to a christian about god.

It's the way language works. There isn't some overarching authority that says you're only allowed to use phrases if they make sense. If people use it, then it's part of the language. People generally use the back of 12 to mean between 12 and quarter past, so that's what it means, whether you like it or not, or whether there's a logical reason for it or not.

[Socrates]

Anyway, it's entirely obvious that to the back of 12 o'clock is immediately after 12 o'clock. Thinking of it as the back of the 12th (13th??) hour is bollocks.

[BoJack Horseman]

It's the way language works. There isn't some overarching authority that says you're only allowed to use phrases if they make sense. If people use it, then it's part of the language. People generally use the back of 12 to mean between 12 and quarter past, so that's what it means, whether you like it or not, or whether there's a logical reason for it or not.

 

I'm totally on board with that. If someone said "aye, your logic is sound, but that's not how the phrase is generally interpreted", then I'd accept that it's just one of these things that just don't make sense. I'm not an aspi, I'm not walking round thinking "WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S NOT ACTUALLY RAINING CATS AND DOGS". I understand what an idiom is. But I'm in a deep debate with my flatmate about this, and he's trying to use logic to justify that "the back of" means just after, and I'm not having that, because it doesn't make any sense.

[Socrates]

I'm totally on board with that. If someone said "aye, your logic is sound, but that's not how the phrase is generally interpreted", then I'd accept that it's just one of these things that just don't make sense. I'm not an aspi, I'm not walking round thinking "WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S NOT ACTUALLY RAINING CATS AND DOGS". I understand what an idiom is. But I'm in a deep debate with my flatmate about this, and he's trying to use logic to justify that "the back of" means just after, and I'm not having that, because it doesn't make any sense.

 

Well, it doesn't mean just before does it? Given that we're talking about a particular time (12 o'clock) and not a whole hour, the back of 12 must be just after 12.

[2NaFish]

Please explain that. Unless we're having a duel and walking 10 paces from each other, we can't both be at each others back. We're all going through time in same direction. Forwards. You approach 7.50 on the timeline before you approach 8. So 7.50 is behind 8. Or, at the back of it.

 

We're all going through time in the same direction but a fixed point in time is not. In the scenario i laid you are the fixed point in time, and i'm time. I go past you. Like i said, your horses analogy is flawed. You need to accept that whilst 12 is a time it is not in fact time. It's a point in time from which other points in time have a relative position. Time itself goes past twelve and can see the back of twelve. Hence, 'the back of 12'.

[Sterling Archer]

.

[BoJack Horseman]

Well, it doesn't mean just before does it? Given that we're talking about a particular time (12 o'clock) and not a whole hour, the back of 12 must be just after 12.

 

Time is linear. It moves forward. After 12 is in front of 12, as it is past 12. Everything before 12 is backward of 12, or behind it, or the back of it.

[GlasgoJambo]

[BoJack Horseman]

We're all going through time in the same direction but a fixed point in time is not. In the scenario i laid you are the fixed point in time, and i'm time. I go past you. Like i said, your horses analogy is flawed. You need to accept that whilst 12 is a time it is not in fact time. It's a point in time from which other points in time have a relative position. Time itself goes past twelve and can see the back of twelve. Hence, 'the back of 12'.

 

 

So you're moving forward in time towards 8pm, which is the fixed point in time. Your point of reference. As you approach 8, you are behind it, as 8pm is in front of you, as that's the direction that you move through time. Once it gets to 8.01 you're now forwards of 8pm, in front of it. The opposite of the front being the back, which is where 7.50pm is.

[Swarlos]

 

 

Time is linear. It moves forward. After 12 is in front of 12, as it is past 12. Everything before 12 is backward of 12, or behind it, or the back of it.

 

Time doesn't exist. It's all relative to the perceiver and that's how we perceive it.

[JT1959]

 

So you're moving forward in time towards 8pm, which is the fixed point in time. Your point of reference. As you approach 8, you are behind it, as 8pm is in front of you, as that's the direction that you move through time. Once it gets to 8.01 you're now forwards of 8pm, in front of it. The opposite of the front being the back, which is where 7.50pm is.

 

I pity your flatmate.

[BoJack Horseman]

Time doesn't exist. It's all relative to the perceiver and that's how we perceive it.

 

Correct, numbers on a clock are just a convenient way to document time, but we all understand the concept. If there's some upcoming date, you "look forward to it", and you "look back on your life". So we can understand the direction of time. So it's quite simple to take a fixed point and then figure out what's in front of it, and what's behind it.

[2NaFish]

 

So you're moving forward in time towards 8pm, which is the fixed point in time. Your point of reference. As you approach 8, you are behind it, as 8pm is in front of you, as that's the direction that you move through time. Once it gets to 8.01 you're now forwards of 8pm, in front of it. The opposite of the front being the back, which is where 7.50pm is.

 

You've assumed that a fixed point in time is facing a certain way with no reason behind it - once again, time moves forward, not the point in time. All you have to do is tell yourself that the fixed point in time faces the other way and it makes sense to you.

[rossthejambo]

When I say "the back of 12" I mean around about 12, say 10 minutes either side.

 

Far too much thought has gone in to this thread though.

[JT1959]

Back of 12 is a colloquial phrase for after 12.

[BoJack Horseman]

Back of 12 is a colloquial phrase for after 12.

 

Thanks for your input JT. Really appreciate it.

[JT1959]

Thanks for your input JT. Really appreciate it.

 

You're welcome. Got to shoot now meeting a mate at the back of one, hope he's not there already!

[BoJack Horseman]

You're welcome. Got to shoot now meeting a mate at the back of one, hope he's not there already!

 

He will be. As 1 hasn't happened yet, so we're still approaching it, so it hasn't past yet, so we're at the back of it, soon to be in front of it.

[Hansel]

 

 

 

So you're moving forward in time towards 8pm, which is the fixed point in time. Your point of reference. As you approach 8, you are behind it, as 8pm is in front of you, as that's the direction that you move through time. Once it gets to 8.01 you're now forwards of 8pm, in front of it. The opposite of the front being the back, which is where 7.50pm is.

I've thought about this before and, despite accepting that it means up to quarter past the hour, came to the same conclusion as you.

 

I often take advantage of the ambiguity of the expression in order to avoid the pressure of being pinned down to a specific time.

 

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Generally when discussing a period of time you look back, for e.g.'looking back over the last few days'. So time that's elapsed is behind you. If you've pased 12 o'clock it's behind you so you look back on it. It's pretty simple no?

[BoJack Horseman]

Generally when discussing a period of time you look back, for e.g.'looking back over the last few days'. So time that's elapsed is behind you. If you've pased 12 o'clock it's behind you so you look back on it. It's pretty simple no?

100% correct. But that's not the phrase. The phrase is the back of 8. So it's what's behind 8, not what's behind you.

[Arnold Rothstein]

Coming at the back of something means just after. Simple as that. This thread is ridiculous.

[Bob Loblaw]

100% correct. But that's not the phrase. The phrase is the back of 8. So it's what's behind 8, not what's behind you.

 

Well to extend what I was saying surely it's just a phrase that means I'll meet you just as we're looking back at the hour of 8. Obviously that's wordy so it becomes 'the back of 8'.

 

This conversation in general

[BoJack Horseman]

I've thought about this before and, despite accepting that it means up to quarter past the hour, came to the same conclusion as you.

 

I often take advantage of the ambiguity of the expression in order to avoid the pressure of being pinned down to a specific time.

 

I'm in the same boat. I've accepted that if someone wants to be as ambiguous with a 15 minute window of time as to use the phrase "back of X", then I figure they mean after 8. I wish it was the other way around though, because then I can be late for stuff and tell them to bolt. If I interpret it the logical way, I'll just be early for everything.

 

Coming at the back of something means just after. Simple as that. This thread is ridiculous.

 

Aye, if only time went backwards, you'd be right.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Eye-opening thread. I thought everybody knew this. Just after the hour. Even quarter past is pushing it.

[Ribble]

it's quite simple and comes from the naming of the positions on a clock face, 12 being the 'top' or 'above' and 6 being the 'bottom' or 'behind', therefore any time where the hand is between 12 and 6 it could be regarded as being on the back side of the hour.

[Jamboman1512]

Anytime after 12:30 is the back of 12, that's how its always been to me and everyone i know, if i was going to meet someone just after 12 then that's what i would say, just after 12 or a bit after 12 which means anytime up until 12:30.

[Arnold Rothstein]

Aye, if only time went backwards, you'd be right.

 

You cannot be this stupid. We're not discussing the whole hour, just the point at which it is x o'clock. Just after that is 'at the back of'.

 

If you're struggling just put it in the same box in your head as raining cats and dogs as per your previous post and get on with your life.

[Arnold Rothstein]

Anytime after 12:30 is the back of 12, that's how its always been to me and everyone i know, if i was going to meet someone just after 12 then that's what i would say, just after 12 or a bit after 12 which means anytime up until 12:30.

 

Shite

[Bigsmak]

Back of twelve is just after 12

[BoJack Horseman]

You cannot be this stupid. We're not discussing the whole hour, just the point at which it is x o'clock. Just after that is 'at the back of'.

 

If you're struggling just put it in the same box in your head as raining cats and dogs as per your previous post and get on with your life.

 

How am I being stupid? Please debunk my logic if that's ridiculous. I've drawn it and everything. Your argument is far from water right. Just another rehashing of "that's what it is".

 

Everything forward is at the front. Everything backward is at the back. It's literally as simple as that. Please, please, someone disagree with that very simple statement.

[Jamboman1512]

Shite

 

Shite

[BoJack Horseman]

Coming at the back of something means just after. Simple as that. This thread is ridiculous.

 

So this is your logic..

 

 

With the timeline itself moving left to right?

[Boaby Ewing]

It's a dreadful phrase I've always hated.

[Gavman33]

Heading for the classics

[GforGallo]

I understand where bojack is coming from tbf..

 

but I go by the logic if you've just gotten rid of something you are glad to 'see the back of it' us this, once you are rid of say 12 O'clock you are seeing the back of it. This is then shortened to the back of 12.

[:shitwine:]

This has been picked up by the 'JKB Shed Wankers' twitter feed

 

Harsh, IMO.