Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[lost in space]

1 hour ago, Boab said:

The last number I seen, 82% of SNP voters would vote yes in another referendum.

So, let me ask this question; do you think SNP voters would not vote SNP after last night’s televised party broadcast, calling for Independence ?

I think we already know the answer but what do you think ? 

So 82% of SNP voters would vote YES.  Fair enough - I would expect many Green voters would also vote YES.  Between them and others, I would expect there would be 45% of the vote would be YES.  So, no change then.

 

I didnt watch the SNP broadcast - I prefer non-fiction.

[Boab]

1 minute ago, lost in space said:

So 82% of SNP voters would vote YES.  Fair enough - I would expect many Green voters would also vote YES.  Between them and others, I would expect there would be 45% of the vote would be YES.  So, no change then.

 

I didnt watch the SNP broadcast - I prefer non-fiction.

So, they would vote SNP !

👍

[Star Lizard]

Definitely Ian Murray.

[lost in space]

13 minutes ago, Boab said:

So, they would vote SNP !

👍

Most SNP and Green supporters/voters would vote yes, of course - but the overall YES would unlikely be above 50%.  The polls seem to suggest that the actual % of YES/NO various only a small amount - and that the 2014 result would likely be replicated.

 

I am not scared of another referendum - just dont want to again go through all of the angst that we all did.  Few people in Scotland. IMO, want another referendum.

[redjambo]

9 minutes ago, lost in space said:

Most SNP and Green supporters/voters would vote yes, of course - but the overall YES would unlikely be above 50%.  The polls seem to suggest that the actual % of YES/NO various only a small amount - and that the 2014 result would likely be replicated.

 

I am not scared of another referendum - just dont want to again go through all of the angst that we all did.  Few people in Scotland. IMO, want another referendum.

 

I would like to see another referendum but only when polls show that there is solid medium-term majority support for independence. Otherwise it will be a waste of time and energy when there are more pressing issues to deal with.

[Boab]

3 minutes ago, lost in space said:

Most SNP and Green supporters/voters would vote yes, of course - but the overall YES would unlikely be above 50%.  The polls seem to suggest that the actual % of YES/NO various only a small amount - and that the 2014 result would likely be replicated.

 

I am not scared of another referendum - just dont want to again go through all of the angst that we all did.  Few people in Scotland. IMO, want another referendum.

Of course. 
The numbers have stayed pretty close to those percentages over the last decade, with the odd spike here and there. The numbers of people in Scotland wanting another referendum depends on a few things but England’s political landscape is important. A lurch even further to the right in the form of those Shysters, Reform, would, no doubt, change some peoples’ view of a future UK.

My personal view, and it’s one I’ve posted on previously, is that it wouldn’t go through, even if there was a YES vote in defiance of a predictable “ project fear “ campaign. We are too important in a geo-political sense and any post-ref talk of distancing would be scuppered.

Just my view ! 🤷‍♂️

A shame as Independence could be a good vehicle to a better political future.

[lost in space]

16 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I would like to see another referendum but only when polls show that there is solid medium-term majority support for independence. Otherwise it will be a waste of time and energy when there are more pressing issues to deal with.

Yes, I agree.  If there was a significant solid majority of people in Scotland who wanted to have Independence, then of course there should be another referendum.  Maybe there should be a voting figure that triggered a referendum - rather than Alex/Nicola's "once in a generation" nonsense.

Just guessing but maybe 2 elections in a row where SNP had 60+%.  They could be called "de-factos" - Swinney would love that.

[lost in space]

19 minutes ago, Boab said:

Of course. 
The numbers have stayed pretty close to those percentages over the last decade, with the odd spike here and there. The numbers of people in Scotland wanting another referendum depends on a few things but England’s political landscape is important. A lurch even further to the right in the form of those Shysters, Reform, would, no doubt, change some peoples’ view of a future UK.

My personal view, and it’s one I’ve posted on previously, is that it wouldn’t go through, even if there was a YES vote in defiance of a predictable “ project fear “ campaign. We are too important in a geo-political sense and any post-ref talk of distancing would be scuppered.

Just my view ! 🤷‍♂️

A shame as Independence could be a good vehicle to a better political future.

Yes, a lurch to the right with Reform would make some difference - but there wasnt  lasting Indy support after Boris and Truss were in charge. 

Will be interesting to see how Reform get on next month.  Most Scots hate the idea of what Reform stand for but Reform are making progress.  The anti-migrant demos in Falkirk and Inverness show that we Scots are maybe not as idealistic as we would like to be!!

 

Future Independence?  Not enough EVIDENCE to show that Scotland would be a better place. If there was I would vote for it. I dont see it happening.

[Australis]

1 hour ago, lost in space said:

Most SNP and Green supporters/voters would vote yes, of course - but the overall YES would unlikely be above 50%.  The polls seem to suggest that the actual % of YES/NO various only a small amount - and that the 2014 result would likely be replicated.

 

I am not scared of another referendum - just dont want to again go through all of the angst that we all did.  Few people in Scotland. IMO, want another referendum.

You just know after the next referendum if permission was granted, which it won't, there would be an excuse not to accept the result and demand another referendum.

 

The first one agreed by all participants whatever the result was binding......................until you lose.

 

[Dirty Deeds]

57 minutes ago, Australis said:

You just know after the next referendum if permission was granted, which it won't, there would be an excuse not to accept the result and demand another referendum.

 

The first one agreed by all participants whatever the result was binding......................until you lose.

 

12 years since the last one and as long as we keep voting for parties whose main policy is independence, the conversation isn't going away.

[pablo]

Cute that some think there will ever be another independence vote that isn't solely a confirmatory referendum.

[Australis]

23 minutes ago, Dirty Deeds said:

12 years since the last one and as long as we keep voting for parties whose main policy is independence, the conversation isn't going away.

12 years since the last one.

But they wanted another referendum right after they lost it.

 

Salmond, Sturgeon, Yousaf and Swinney all promise another referendum while raking it in.

Can't believe how all of the Nationalists stay quiet, accept the promises then don't kick off when they are constantly lied to.

 

Swinney hasn't announced another date for nationalists to look forward to and count down, just constantly keeps promising and lying to them.

 

None of them deliver.

 

 

[Don Dannie]

4 hours ago, lost in space said:

Hilarious.

 

I didnt open the links but see you are talking about Poland and an EU deal with Oz.

 

So its Poland now is it? Well thats a new one to be fair.  Alex (and the Nicola) were always comparing Scotland with Ireland... for a while; and then Norway when they were doing well.......... and then Iceland.... Denmark, I think......... and now its Poland.   Funny when an EU country does well the SNP say "that should be us"!!!

 

I voted to stay in the EU but accepted the democratic vote.  Most of the UK would now vote to return to the EU, IMO.  Labour know that it was wrong and are moving us closer to the EU and we MAY rejoin, if the terms are right.

 

So what your point caller?  Problem identified being resolved.

You sound like you voted for the EU. 😂 and just back tracked on your points. 

Try reading the links I posted and educate yourself 

[lost in space]

1 minute ago, Don Dannie said:

You sound like you voted for the EU. 😂 and just back tracked on your points. 

Try reading the links I posted and educate yourself 

No back tracking - I just believe in democracy. You should try it.

[lost in space]

54 minutes ago, pablo said:

Cute that some think there will ever be another independence vote that isn't solely a confirmatory referendum.

Is that a confirmation on insanity?

[Don Dannie]

1 minute ago, lost in space said:

No back tracking - I just believe in democracy. You should try it.

I believe in fairness in democracy not being lied to and false promises that will never materialise. Sunny uplands and unicorns and the best one sovereignty which we always had (which was proved by other EU members as they individually controlled their own borders during Covid. Reform are charlatans as are the Tories, past and present and those that jumped ship to Deform. 

[lost in space]

1 hour ago, Don Dannie said:

I believe in fairness in democracy not being lied to and false promises that will never materialise. Sunny uplands and unicorns and the best one sovereignty which we always had (which was proved by other EU members as they individually controlled their own borders during Covid. Reform are charlatans as are the Tories, past and present and those that jumped ship to Deform. 

If you don't want to be lied to and be given false promises - maybe politics is not for you.

There is no party in the UK (maybe the world) that is true and honest.

Of course some parties lie and cheat more than others!!

[Don Dannie]

3 minutes ago, lost in space said:

If you don't want to be lied to and be given false promises - maybe politics is not for you.

There is no party in the UK (maybe the world) that is true and honest.

Of course some parties lie and cheat more than others!!

Then it’s time we had People of  integrity standing for elections and not people in it for themselves or their donors. I suppose I’m asking for to much but believe this is what we need. 

[John Findlay]

14 minutes ago, Don Dannie said:

Then it’s time we had People of  integrity standing for elections and not people in it for themselves or their donors. I suppose I’m asking for to much but believe this is what we need. 

Alas, that has never, and never will be the case.

[Kells_On_Jackson]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure the initial vote was open to people who have moved to Scotland but were not born there ? But was not open to people who were born in Scotland, but don't live there anymore ?

[lost in space]

26 minutes ago, Don Dannie said:

Then it’s time we had People of  integrity standing for elections and not people in it for themselves or their donors. I suppose I’m asking for to much but believe this is what we need. 

I think that we all WISH for that but would we actually vote for it??

 

If a new party, where honesty was guaranteed, started and said that they knew how to improve society but it would take 10 years - where we would have to improve infrastructure, increase defence spending, curb pension and public service pay etc, etc - would they be voted for??

 

I don't think they would be voted in, when there are parties who will promise a quick-fix for everything and riches for all.

 

Maybe we get the politicians we deserve.

[lost in space]

13 minutes ago, Kells_On_Jackson said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure the initial vote was open to people who have moved to Scotland but were not born there ? But was not open to people who were born in Scotland, but don't live there anymore ?

I think you are right and believe it was the right decision.

Pisses me off when these fecking "entertainers" like Brian Cox, Alan Cumming and the like preach to us - but live in Calafornia and pay no UK taxes.

[Boab]

8 minutes ago, lost in space said:

I think you are right and believe it was the right decision.

Pisses me off when these fecking "entertainers" like Brian Cox, Alan Cumming and the like preach to us - but live in Calafornia and pay no UK taxes.

I kinda agree but we have to be balanced when discussing this. The open letter by celebrities like Dench, McCartney, Jagger, Bonham-Carter and the like, urging people to vote no in 2014, was treated with the contempt it deserved. Well, it was by me. Arseholes, keep your comments to yourself !

[lost in space]

2 minutes ago, Boab said:

I kinda agree but we have to be balanced when discussing this. The open letter by celebrities like Dench, McCartney, Jagger, Bonham-Carter and the like, urging people to vote no in 2014, was treated with the contempt it deserved. Well, it was by me. Arseholes, keep your comments to yourself !

Totally agree.

[Don Dannie]

45 minutes ago, lost in space said:

I think that we all WISH for that but would we actually vote for it??

 

If a new party, where honesty was guaranteed, started and said that they knew how to improve society but it would take 10 years - where we would have to improve infrastructure, increase defence spending, curb pension and public service pay etc, etc - would they be voted for??

 

I don't think they would be voted in, when there are parties who will promise a quick-fix for everything and riches for all.

 

Maybe we get the politicians we deserve.

Or maybe a party that promises an end game of actual benefits which would need patience till we get there. I live in  hope.
The Brexit grifters promised things that were simply unrealistic or inachievable. 
Im still waiting for one Brexiteer to show me a benefit from leaving whilst I showed them what we lost and how other EU members continue to benefit.

I believe from surveys I’ve seen that if there was a vote now rejoin would win much the same as independence would win as well. 
Let’s put it to the vote again. Why are people frightened to vote again. Once in a generation is a poor argument when have regular local and nation elections. 
 

Edited April 8 by Don Dannie

[Boab]

2 minutes ago, Don Dannie said:

Or maybe a party that promises an end game of actual benefits which would need patience till we get there. I live in  hope.
The Brexit grifters promised things that were simply unrealistic or inachievable. 
Im still waiting for one Brexiteer to show me a benefit from leaving whilst I showed them what we lost and how other EU members continue to benefit.

I believe from surveys I’ve seen that if there was a vote now rejoin would win much the same as independence would win as well. 
Let’s put it to the vote again. Why are people frightened to vote again. Once in a generation is a poor argument when have regular local and nation elections. 
 

I think the Nat leaders at the time, Salmond/Sturgeon jumped in too quick with the once in a generation/lifetime quotes.

I get why they did it as it was always going to be close and they had to go full on !

I agree with your last sentence as elections are held regularly as society changes. Not to say we should have referendums all the time, but if a clear mandate is there, I don’t see why there shouldn’t be another if conditions are met.

Agreeing the parameters of a mandate…well, that’s a can of worms !

[Kells_On_Jackson]

Do you guys think there'll be another vote? And is there a strong appetite for Independence?

 

[Don Dannie]

Lifted from an email I received this evening.

 

The European Movement in Scotland has been campaigning for closer links between the UK and the EU. We believe that would be good for Scotland, the UK, Europe – and for the world.

So the recent talk from the UK government about more extensive agreements with the EU is welcome news.

But how likely, and how quickly, will such closer relationships happen? And how extensive will they end up being?

The EU and UK have already agreed, at a joint summit in May 2025, on a new ”Strategic Partnership” for cooperation. This included a new “Security and Defence Partnership” to respond to the security threats facing Europe. They also agreed a ”Common Understanding” on areas for further co-operation. 

Since then, some agreements have been reached, including on Erasmus+ , fishing, and energy cooperation. Negotiations have commenced on other areas, including on food safety and animal and plant health standards, and the linkage of emission trading systems (ETS). However, in other areas, negotiations have been slower than hoped for.

In the current state of world events, there is no doubt that the issue of closer UK-EU relations will continue to be a major focus of politics throughout 2026. And the outcome of the negotiations will be of vital importance to Scotland.

[kingantti1874]

7 minutes ago, Kells_On_Jackson said:

Do you guys think there'll be another vote? And is there a strong appetite for Independence?

 

no and not enough, though a fair %  have been brainwashed to such an extent that John Swinney could take a piss in their cornflakes and they’d still vote for him. 

[Boab]

8 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

no and not enough, though a fair %  have been brainwashed to such an extent that John Swinney could take a piss in their cornflakes and they’d still vote for him. 

Give an alternative FM and we’ll discuss their merits !

[lost in space]

1 hour ago, Don Dannie said:

Or maybe a party that promises an end game of actual benefits which would need patience till we get there. I live in  hope.
The Brexit grifters promised things that were simply unrealistic or inachievable. 
Im still waiting for one Brexiteer to show me a benefit from leaving whilst I showed them what we lost and how other EU members continue to benefit.

I believe from surveys I’ve seen that if there was a vote now rejoin would win much the same as independence would win as well. 
Let’s put it to the vote again. Why are people frightened to vote again. Once in a generation is a poor argument when have regular local and nation elections. 

 

The Brexit grifters are EXACTLY the same as the Independence grifters.

SNP have done nothing since 2014 to persuade the voters that Indy would be an advantage.

A vote on joining the EU would probably be yes.

A vote on Indy? - could go either way - it changes from month to month.

Your question on why don't we have another Indy vote is disengenious.

Say there was a vote and YES did win - would there be another vote after???

Of course not.

You want regular votes on Indy until you get YES - and then no more votes. Ridiculous.

[pablo]

1 hour ago, Kells_On_Jackson said:

Do you guys think there'll be another vote? And is there a strong appetite for Independence?

 

 

No, there will never be another constitutional referendum in the UK that could be won or lost during campaigning. 

[Dennis Denuto]

25 minutes ago, lost in space said:

The Brexit grifters are EXACTLY the same as the Independence grifters.

SNP have done nothing since 2014 to persuade the voters that Indy would be an advantage.

A vote on joining the EU would probably be yes.

A vote on Indy? - could go either way - it changes from month to month.

Your question on why don't we have another Indy vote is disengenious.

Say there was a vote and YES did win - would there be another vote after???

Of course not.

You want regular votes on Indy until you get YES - and then no more votes. Ridiculous.

There would be no need for more votes, no one ever wants to rejoin the British Empire. 

[Dennis Denuto]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

no and not enough, though a fair %  have been brainwashed to such an extent that John Swinney could take a piss in their cornflakes and they’d still vote for him. 

Is John Swinney pudding in my cornflakes an actual SNP policy? Suddenly the women with penises stuff doesn’t seem so bad now. 

[lost in space]

31 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

There would be no need for more votes, no one ever wants to rejoin the British Empire. 

Exactly the opinion that I would expect from a Nat.

WE WANT A REFERENDUM, WE WANT A REFERENDUM.......

We have won - no more referendums allowed.

[Dennis Denuto]

5 minutes ago, lost in space said:

Exactly the opinion that I would expect from a Nat.

WE WANT A REFERENDUM, WE WANT A REFERENDUM.......

We have won - no more referendums allowed.

Exactly. 
 

Have I ever said I want a referendum? I want independence. I want the people that live here to want independence. 

[scott herbertson]

Latest Electoral Calculus projection is for an outright majority for the SNP in the forthcoming elections

 

 

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_scotmrp_20260407.html

[lost in space]

11 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

Latest Electoral Calculus projection is for an outright majority for the SNP in the forthcoming elections

 

 

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_scotmrp_20260407.html

I stopped reading after "completed for the National.........". 

You could run 2 polls right now with completely different outcomes, depending on whether you just contacted SNP supporters or not.

[lost in space]

41 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

Exactly. 
 

Have I ever said I want a referendum? I want independence. I want the people that live here to want independence. 

Suggest you contact SNP HQ and ask them if they have done ANYTHING since 2014 to persuade voters to support independence.

[Boab]

33 minutes ago, lost in space said:

Suggest you contact SNP HQ and ask them if they have done ANYTHING since 2014 to persuade voters to support independence.

Independence does not mean an SNP government. They are the bus to jump on to achieve it, if that is your wish, but not necessarily the government post-referendum.

Edited April 8 by Boab

[lost in space]

1 minute ago, Boab said:

Independence does not mean an SNP government. They are the bus to jump on to achieve it, if that is your wish, but not necessarily the government post-referendum.

Post-referendum bus. Just as well it isn't a ferry.

[Boab]

1 minute ago, lost in space said:

Post-referendum bus. Just as well it isn't a ferry.

I think it might be a bit of a shock for some Nats if Indy was achieved. A honeymoon period maybe but after that it would be a different game. No SNP forever one-party state.

The unionist parties would have to re-align, possibly leading to a new outfit in one shape or another.

 

[Byyy The Light]

Any update on the currency?

[lost in space]

29 minutes ago, Boab said:

I think it might be a bit of a shock for some Nats if Indy was achieved. A honeymoon period maybe but after that it would be a different game. No SNP forever one-party state.

The unionist parties would have to re-align, possibly leading to a new outfit in one shape or another.

 

The first thing to happen would be all of the MPs would return to Scotland. Oh good, more politicians - just what we need!!!

The SNP would disband (good news at last). 

Scottish Labour, Tories etc would have to decide if they can be funded. Doubt if there are plans for this.

There is no clarity on what would happen.

 

Another hugely important matter, to add to the list, where the SNP have done nothing to explain since 2014.

 

Good.

[lost in space]

25 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

Any update on the currency?

Or the National Bank?

Or plans to join EFTA?

Or plans to join EU?

Or plans on defence?

Or plans on an air force?

Or plans on Immigration?

Or plans on Embassies?

Or plans on border controls on railways/ roads?

Or plans on NATO membership?

Or plans on nuclear power?

Or plans on shipbuilding once MoD stop supplying orders?

Or plans for employment at Faslane?

Or plans to open oilfield exploration?

Or import tax plans on goods from England?

Or detailed plans, which have been audited, showing exactly how our finances would work?

 

ONLY KIDDING. The SNP have not explained any of these. They have done nothing since 2014.

Edited April 8 by lost in space
Spelling again

[Dennis Denuto]

32 minutes ago, lost in space said:

Or the National Bank?

Or plans to join EFTA?

Or plans to join EU?

Or plans on defence?

Or plans on an air force?

Or plans on Immigration?

Or plans on Embassies?

Or plans on border controls on railways/ roads?

Or plans on NATO membership?

Or plans on nuclear power?

Or plans on shipbuilding once MoD stop supplying orders?

Or plans for employment at Faslane?

Or plans to open oilfield exploration?

Or import tax plans on goods from England?

Or detailed plans, which have been audited, showing exactly how our finances would work?

 

ONLY KIDDING. The SNP have not explained any of these. They have done nothing since 2014.

It’s almost like there are no independent countries in the world. 

[Chairman of the Bored]

36 minutes ago, lost in space said:

Or the National Bank?

Or plans to join EFTA?

Or plans to join EU?

Or plans on defence?

Or plans on an air force?

Or plans on Immigration?

Or plans on Embassies?

Or plans on border controls on railways/ roads?

Or plans on NATO membership?

Or plans on nuclear power?

Or plans on shipbuilding once MoD stop supplying orders?

Or plans for employment at Faslane?

Or plans to open oilfield exploration?

Or import tax plans on goods from England?

Or detailed plans, which have been audited, showing exactly how our finances would work?

 

ONLY KIDDING. The SNP have not explained any of these. They have done nothing since 2014.

It’s fine. We’ll just join the Russian Federation. 

[The Mighty Thor]

7 hours ago, Chairman of the Bored said:

It’s fine. We’ll just join the Russian Federation. 

Is that when Farage gets the keys to Downing Street?

[Chairman of the Bored]

6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Is that when Farage gets the keys to Downing Street?

да

[Gundermann]

10 hours ago, lost in space said:

I stopped reading after "completed for the National.........". 

You could run 2 polls right now with completely different outcomes, depending on whether you just contacted SNP supporters or not.

 

I get that you're desperate for it not to happen, and it may not, but other polls have pointed to the possibility of an SNP majority. 

 

This poll by STV (if LiS permits it...) has Greens as second biggest party. 

 

https://prod.news.stv.tv/politics/snp-extends-lead-while-scottish-labour-support-slumps-poll-shows