Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[Roxy Hearts]

10 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Interesting posting and stats. 

 

However you state that older people less willing to " change " than younger people but dont explain why? I think the reason is they are wiser , realistic and are aware of the  negatives of what an Indy Scotland may bring , in particular with pensions , the economy.   Younger people are natually more niave and have not as much to lose as older people ( pensions, mortgages impact etc) so certainly more likely to vote Yes.

 

Your points about the " impact" of English people settling in Scotland is rather uncomfortable i feel. You cant assume they have issues with immigration etc cause they are English. Also i thought it was noted that if Scotland became indy then there would be dual citizenship ? 

 

 

I'm 64 Triple J but I've supported independence for decades! Why would I worry about "pensions"? Ive got company ones and my government one which I checked online.

 

As far as I'm concerned, independence is a positive thing. There are pros and cons but it would be great to negotiate settlements and conclusions to benefit people living here. 

 

A lot of English people have moved here and are very welcome but it's understandable why they support the union. They've also moved here because Scotland is a better place to live I expect.

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Saw that poll. Good news.

 

However, in terms of scrapping progressive legislation to appeal to older conservatives... no. I'm pretty sure that until recently a majority of over 45s were No-voters. To have 40% of 65+ now voting Yes is huge progress.

 

As to trans rights, it's not a major electoral issue - whether your for or against the GRA. IIRC, it barely registers as a priority or issue for most people. And, when some very vociferous opponents of the GRA do put themselves to the test - such as Jo Cherry and Alba - they've been comprehensively rejected at the ballot box.

 

This sums it up:

https://sotn.newstatesman.com/2023/04/voters-care-trans-rights

 

 

 

 

That article and poll  is 2 and a half years old. Things have moved on since then. Women and girls rights to safety dignity and respect will always be an issue for many voters no matter what you may be stating. The Supreme court ruling has brought this issue to the attention of  a lot more people and most polls indicate that people fully supported the Supreme court ruling that there is only 2 sexs,  Joanne lost her seat as well as a vast marjority of SNP MPs last year , so stating it was due to her support of womens rights is laughable. One could argue that they lost their seats because of the SNPs support of gender nonsense..  That and numerous other issues. 

Edited October 18, 2025 by JudyJudyJudy

[Roxy Hearts]

6 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

That article and poll  is 2 and a half years old. Things have moved on since then. Women and girls rights to safety dignity and respect will always be an issue for many voters no matter what you may be stating. The Supreme court ruling has brought this issue to the attention of  a lot more people and most polls indicate that people fully supported the Supreme court ruling that there is only 2 sexs,  Joanne lost her seat as well as a vast marjority of SNP MPs last year , so stating it was due to her support of womens rights is laughable. One could argue that they lost their seats because of the SNPs support of gender nonsense..  That and numerous other issues. 

Why have English people moved to Scotland under an SNP Government? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Why have English people moved to Scotland under an SNP Government? 

I don’t know . Do you ? 

[Roxy Hearts]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

I don’t know . Do you ? 

It's a good country to live in and maybe they prefer that type of governance. 

 

Can't you find anything positive to say about our country? You normally use your unionist, mental gymnastics to provide a negative retort!

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

It's a good country to live in and maybe they prefer that type of governance. 

 

Can't you find anything positive to say about our country? You normally use your unionist, mental gymnastics to provide a negative retort!

Maybe they just want a change but not that  dramatic a change ? So pick Scotland as its very similar in traditions , history , shared norms , language and values . Easier than the hassle of moving abroad ? Similar reasons Scot’s moved to England I guess 

[Roxy Hearts]

13 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Maybe they just want a change but not that  dramatic a change ? So pick Scotland as its very similar in traditions , history , shared norms , language and values . Easier than the hassle of moving abroad ? Similar reasons Scot’s moved to England I guess 

I thought Scotland was a basket case? We're told by unionists on here. Why move to a country under the SNP? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I thought Scotland was a basket case? We're told by unionists on here. Why move to a country under the SNP? 

Already answered it above mate . Conversely why are people leaving Scotland then ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

 

Polling looking very strong. Badly let down by an aging population though. 

 

When Unionists talk about needing to secure a supermajority, or consistent polling north of 50% I think they say so knowing full well that that is a borderline impossible task. 

 

65+ are much less open to change than younger generations and I think have difference concerns. 

 

Going back to 2014/15 - it does seem to be improving, but the over 65s remain pretty stubborn. 

 

Thing is, I don't know how you change that. Because of the aging population, its essential that this is brought to at least 50/50 to give polling that shot in the arm and break the 50/50 deadlock. Logically, pensions is the vote killer. If the SNP can come up with a reassuring plan on pensions, then that you would think would give more pensioners food for thought, than previously. 

 

I also think that the hyper-progressive policies the SNP were adopting under Sturgeon, like the GRA didn't appeal to the majority of elderly people. Folk typically become a bit more conservative as they get older, so given the polling metrics, I don't know how Sturgeon thought she was squaring that circle by pushing trans issues and allowing the media to feed the elderly stories about Isla Bryson and so forth. Like all things, it won't be one single issue, but IMO the SNP/wider yes movement need to figure this out. 

 

I also wonder the impact of English folk retiring here. Obviously, I'm talking very generally, but they will move here with the life experience and political views of someone who has lived in another country all of their days (case in point, England is overall a more conservative country, where issues like immigration are more front & centre to their politics). The idea of Scottish Independence probably sounds horrifying to them and from a polling POV, I think it probably makes a difficult issue worse because you're combing people who are predisposed to vote against Independence, and then supercharging it with age... But I wonder how much offering dual citizenship etc. would make to the polling? If you're English, move to Scotland and then post Independence you'd be a dual citizen, with an EU/European passport - that is surely a pretty motivating factor to voting Yes ? Would make international travel much easier, which wouldn't be a bad thing... 

 

 

Except me.😁

[Roxy Hearts]

8 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Already answered it above mate . Conversely why are people leaving Scotland then ? 

I think a lot of Scots over many years have moved away to many countries. England, Canada, Australia, NZ etc. 

 

Funny enough my best mate moved to England as he got remarried to an English lass. Still supports independence though! 😂

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I think a lot of Scots over many years have moved away to many countries. England, Canada, Australia, NZ etc. 

 

Funny enough my best mate moved to England as he got remarried sto an English lass. Still supports independence though! 😂

Hes moved to a basket case country.🤣

[lost in space]

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Why have English people moved to Scotland under an SNP Government? 

To do missionary work and persuade the locals to stop worshipping false gods (like Nicola).

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Hes moved to a basket case country.🤣

I know! If it wasn't for his stepdaughter going to Uni he'd(they) be home to Edinburgh. He may come back in the future.

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, lost in space said:

To do missionary work and persuade the locals to stop worshipping false gods (like Nicola).

Nicola's tea's oot! The English people choose to stay here.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I know! If it wasn't for his stepdaughter going to Uni he'd(they) be home to Edinburgh. He may come back in the future.

You've got to do what's right for the family.

[Roxy Hearts]

13 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

You've got to do what's right for the family.

He has a business down there and doing well. His stepdaughter was originally going to go to Uni here as she loves Edinburgh but they moved house and got settled. He obviously misses Hearts too!

[The Real Maroonblood]

11 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

He has a business down there and doing well. His stepdaughter was originally going to go to Uni here as she loves Edinburgh but they moved house and got settled. He obviously misses Hearts too!

Good luck to them.

I hope everything works out.

[Thunder and Lightning]

6 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I'm 64 Triple J but I've supported independence for decades! Why would I worry about "pensions"? Ive got company ones and my government one which I checked online.

 

As far as I'm concerned, independence is a positive thing. There are pros and cons but it would be great to negotiate settlements and conclusions to benefit people living here. 

 

A lot of English people have moved here and are very welcome but it's understandable why they support the union. They've also moved here because Scotland is a better place to live I expect.

 

 

 

Can you confirm how many of these aging invaders have moved here? 

[Libertarian]

2 hours ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Can you confirm how many of these aging invaders have moved here? 

Why?

[Roxy Hearts]

6 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Good luck to them.

I hope everything works out.

👍

 

4 hours ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Can you confirm how many of these aging invaders have moved here? 

What "aging invaders"? Why do a lot of unionists like yourself act dense or obtuse?

[Thunder and Lightning]

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

👍

 

What "aging invaders"? Why do a lot of unionists like yourself act dense or obtuse?

It's a simple question. How many English people have moved here over say 10 years? 

[Ulysses]

12 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

 

Dunno where you got those figures, because this is what the NRS page currently says:

 

 

And here's the link to the page: Mid-2024 population estimates - National Records of Scotland (NRS)

 

According to the NRS, more people have moved from the rest of the UK to Scotland than the other way round every single year in the 21st century.  The total net inward migration from the rest of the UK to Scotland since the year 2000 is approximately 209,000.

 

 

Scotland's population tops 5.5m for the first time

 

[Roxy Hearts]

57 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

It's a simple question. How many English people have moved here over say 10 years? 

More than you wish didn't! Don't you think any have moved here?

[Roxy Hearts]

16 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Dunno where you got those figures, because this is what the NRS page currently says:

 

 

And here's the link to the page: Mid-2024 population estimates - National Records of Scotland (NRS)

 

According to the NRS, more people have moved from the rest of the UK to Scotland than the other way round every single year in the 21st century.  The total net inward migration from the rest of the UK to Scotland since the year 2000 is approximately 209,000.

 

 

Scotland's population tops 5.5m for the first time

 

Ffs Uly, dont go messing up unionists minds! Their permanent turbulent, negativity about Scotland is boring.

[lost in space]

8 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Ffs Uly, dont go messing up unionists minds! Their permanent turbulent, negativity about Scotland is boring.

Unionists in Scotland love Scotland the way it is.  It is the Nats who are trying to "drag us out of the UK" into NeverNeverland which might possibly be better but might be much worse.

[JudyJudyJudy]

41 minutes ago, lost in space said:

Unionists in Scotland love Scotland the way it is.  It is the Nats who are trying to "drag us out of the UK" into NeverNeverland which might possibly be better but might be much worse.

THIS 

[Thunder and Lightning]

11 hours ago, Roxy Hearts said:

More than you wish didn't! Don't you think any have moved here?

As usual you just spoke shite with no facts to back yourself up.

 

And I am sure you will continue to do so. Are you still drunk from last night? It was a very simple question. 

 

Answering you don't know was fine. 

[Thunder and Lightning]

2 hours ago, lost in space said:

Unionists in Scotland love Scotland the way it is.  It is the Nats who are trying to "drag us out of the UK" into NeverNeverland which might possibly be better but might be much worse.

Just point and laugh at him. Most do. 

 

He lives in a never never utopia that he can't back up so he makes it up. 😂 

 

Much like the millions he speaks to who all seem to support independence yet didn't vote for it. 

Edited October 19, 2025 by Thunder and Lightning

[Roxy Hearts]

4 hours ago, lost in space said:

Unionists in Scotland love Scotland the way it is.  It is the Nats who are trying to "drag us out of the UK" into NeverNeverland which might possibly be better but might be much worse.

Glad you're enjoying devolution under the SNP Government.

1 hour ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Just point and laugh at him. Most do. 

 

He lives in a never never utopia that he can't back up so he makes it up. 😂 

 

Much like the millions he speaks to who all seem to support independence yet didn't vote for it. 

Point and laugh all you want bud. I'm a big boy, I can take it.

 

I've not made anything up. I've got family, friends and colleagues on both sides of the argument. My younger brother is a staunch unionist! 

 

You do like to make things personal so I guess your arguments are lost. Anyway let's  enjoy the remainder of the weekend and hopefully pump those bigots next week!

 

1 hour ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

As usual you just spoke shite with no facts to back yourself up.

 

And I am sure you will continue to do so. Are you still drunk from last night? It was a very simple question. 

 

Answering you don't know was fine. 

What are you on about? English people have moved to Scotland over many years. What difference does the amount mean? 

[Mr Moncler]

On 17/10/2025 at 09:37, Gundermann said:

 

Sure, not everyone. But Starmer has reached Thatcher and Blair levels of unpopularity.

I think if hasn’t already he’s well on the road to sail past them in the unpopularity stakes.
I can’t think of a more unpopular PM, nobody says a good word about him. 
The political landscape is a bin fire these days. 
 

[AyrJambo]

On 19/10/2025 at 00:52, Thunder and Lightning said:

It's a simple question. How many English people have moved here over say 10 years? 

 

About 47,000 from 2011 to 2022 and about 97,000 from 2001 to 2022

 

2022 Census shows 506,207 people living in Scotland who were born in England - that's 9.2% of the Scottish population

2011 Census shows 459,486 people living in Scotland who were born in England - that's 8.7% of the Scottish population

2001 Census shows 408,948 people living in Scotland who were born in England - that's 8.2% of the Scottish population

 

The equivalent reverse figure for 2022 is 795,000 people living in England who were born in Scotland - that's 1.4% of the English population - a drop in the ocean when you also consider that almost 10% of England's population (5.2 million people) were born outside England

I can't think of any other country where almost 10% of it's population is made up of immigrants from one single, larger, neighbouring country

[JudyJudyJudy]

English or Scottish people moving to Scotland or England are not Immigrants 

[AyrJambo]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

English or Scottish people moving to Scotland or England are not Immigrants 

 If England and Scotland are countries then yes they are

[JudyJudyJudy]

21 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 If England and Scotland are countries then yes they are

 

[AyrJambo]

10 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

 

 

Google AI strikes again!! 

 

AI will also give you this...

 

"An immigrant is a person who moves to live permanently in a foreign country."

 

And the qualifying word "considered" is interesting

Considered by who? The UK government?

 

So again, are Scotland and England countries?

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Google AI strikes again!! 

 

AI will also give you this...

 

"An immigrant is a person who moves to live permanently in a foreign country."

 

And the qualifying word "considered" is interesting

Considered by who? The UK government?

 

So again, are Scotland and England countries?

Not an immigrant in the traditional sense of the word . We can move between countries without any  immigration red tape . Unlike any other nationality 

[Mr Moncler]

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Not an immigrant in the traditional sense of the word . We can move between countries without any  immigration red tape . Unlike any other nationality 

The Irish can move and work here freely. Or they used to be able to, not sure if Brexit has changed anything. 

[AyrJambo]

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Not an immigrant in the traditional sense of the word . We can move between countries without any  immigration red tape . Unlike any other nationality 

 

Oh not a "traditional" immigrant

Semantics!!

But OK almost 10% of the Scottish population have "moved" from England - by far the largest national group apart from Scots

[JudyJudyJudy]

Also you can’t be classed as an immigrant if you hold a British passport and then move to another country not of your birth in the UK. 

[AyrJambo]

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Also you can’t be classed as an immigrant if you hold a British passport and then move to another country not of your birth in the UK. 

 

Semantics again!

The biggest single group of people who have "moved" to Scotland from one other country have moved from England - and are now almost 10% of the Scottish population

Because the UK doesn't define that as immigration doesn't mean that it isn't

Edited October 20, 2025 by AyrJambo

[lost in space]

30 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Google AI strikes again!! 

 

AI will also give you this...

 

"An immigrant is a person who moves to live permanently in a foreign country."

 

And the qualifying word "considered" is interesting

Considered by who? The UK government?

 

So again, are Scotland and England countries?

The most relevant word here is "foreign". We are different countries but not foreign to each other.

[AyrJambo]

1 minute ago, lost in space said:

The most relevant word here is "foreign". We are different countries but not foreign to each other.

 

More semantics!

 

You could substitute "another" for "a foreign" and the essential meaning wouldn't change

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, lost in space said:

The most relevant word here is "foreign". We are different countries but not foreign to each other.

Exactly . See this is narrative of the Nats . Use language like “ immigrants “ to allude to a differences between the nations. The them and “ us” . When in realty there’s not much differences between the nations . Despite the SNP proclaiming Scotland is a more “ progressive “ nation . We aren’t . We all the same 

[lost in space]

Just now, AyrJambo said:

 

More semantics!

 

You could substitute "another" for "a foreign" and the essential meaning wouldn't change.

It says "foreign" because it actually means foreign.

 

Semantics would be if I said -

"AyrJambo dosnt know what he is talking about"

and somebody else said -

"AyrJambo is wrong in what he is saying".

 

Both would be correct.

[AyrJambo]

 

 

13 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Exactly . See this is narrative of the Nats . Use language like “ immigrants “ to allude to a differences between the nations. The them and “ us” . When in realty there’s not much differences between the nations . Despite the SNP proclaiming Scotland is a more “ progressive “ nation . We aren’t . We all the same 

 The question I was answering is below

Whether you use the word "immigrant" or not doesn't change the numbers

 

On 19/10/2025 at 00:52, Thunder and Lightning said:

It's a simple question. How many English people have moved here over say 10 years? 

 

About 47,000 from 2011 to 2022 and about 97,000 from 2001 to 2022

 

2022 Census shows 506,207 people living in Scotland who were born in England - that's 9.2% of the Scottish population

2011 Census shows 459,486 people living in Scotland who were born in England - that's 8.7% of the Scottish population

2001 Census shows 408,948 people living in Scotland who were born in England - that's 8.2% of the Scottish population

 

The equivalent reverse figure for 2022 is 795,000 people living in England who were born in Scotland - that's 1.4% of the English population - a drop in the ocean when you also consider that almost 10% of England's population (5.2 million people) were born outside England

I can't think of any other country where almost 10% of it's population is made up of immigrants from one single, larger, neighbouring country

Edited October 20, 2025 by AyrJambo

[AyrJambo]

6 minutes ago, lost in space said:

It says "foreign" because it actually means foreign.

 

Semantics would be if I said -

"AyrJambo dosnt know what he is talking about"

and somebody else said -

"AyrJambo is wrong in what he is saying".

 

Both would be correct.

 

Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

foreign

/ˈfɒr(ɪ)n/

adjective

1.

of, from, in, or characteristic of a country or language other than one's own.

 

What is the full meaning of foreign?

1. : located outside a place or country and especially outside one's own country. foreign nations. 2. : born in, belonging to, or characteristic of a place or country other than the one under consideration.

[Taffin]

I'm with Judy on this. I live in England...I'm not an immigrant here. It's the same state 😂😂

[lost in space]

13 minutes ago, AyrJambo said:

 

Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

foreign

/ˈfɒr(ɪ)n/

adjective

1.

of, from, in, or characteristic of a country or language other than one's own.

 

What is the full meaning of foreign?

1. : located outside a place or country and especially outside one's own country. foreign nations. 2. : born in, belonging to, or characteristic of a place or country other than the one under consideration.

We could spend the day quoting oblique references.

Your quote is a proper general definition of 2 countries. As part of the UK, we are different. We have 4 nations who have the joy of being part of the Union, where the other 3 nations are not foreign.

 

Please let me know when you can prove Scotland is foreign to England - rather than post meaningless generalisations.

[AyrJambo]

8 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I'm with Judy on this. I live in England...I'm not an immigrant here. It's the same state 😂😂

Yes the UK is a unitary state made up of multiple countries

People move between these countries and the number of people moving from England to Scotland, whether you refer to them as immigrants or not, comprise almost 10% of the Scottish population