Kramer Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) What will happen with VAT in the event of a Yes vote? If an independent Scotland joins the EU will the zero rate disappear and a minimum 5% rate be charged on current zero rated goods? Edited September 15, 2014 by Kramer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I'm sure I read somewhere that the No vote in Dumfries and Galloway could be as high as 80%. I doubt that, but if it was does such a significant rejection of independence raise doubts as to whether they would want to have the borders re-drawn? Probably not, that's a tad extreme, but I can see there being issues if any area votes so highly for the losing side. There was some research spoken about last week that showed both Borders council areas to be firmly in the No camp along with the North East, the Northern Isles and, surprisingly, the Hebrides. Dundee City was strongest for Yes and the picture elsewhere was mixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Logically, then, someone might want their opinion(s) on which way to vote in a General Election or indeed any other issue. They need to be neutral on political matters, regardless the issue, just look at the derision poured on the Prince of Wales whenever he picks up his pen (never seems to put it down ). We pay politicians, handsomely, to handle political affairs, and it is only their incompetence in failing to deliver a convincing result that has led to pressure on the Monarchy. Moreover, if you don't really care for continuing with the Monarchy in the result of a 'Yes' vote, it suggests that you may place less store in their opinion now than you profess. General elections come around at least once every five years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 There was some research spoken about last week that showed both Borders council areas to be firmly in the No camp along with the North East, the Northern Isles and, surprisingly, the Hebrides. Dundee City was strongest for Yes and the picture elsewhere was mixed. That seems logical. Independence will be won by schemies looking to vote against the evil Thatcher and get a "fairer society" i.e. more benefits for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 General elections come around at least once every five years. Yes, but neutrality is a mantle that must be worn at all times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Yes, but neutrality is a mantle that must be worn at all times. I don't see why the queen should be neutral about wanting the UK to stay together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 What will happen with VAT in the event of a Yes vote? If an independent Scotland joins the EU will the zero rate disappear and a minimum 5% rate be charged on current zero rated goods? It goes back to whether you think Scotland will be grandfathered into the EU and will be afforded the same status and opt-outs as the UK enjoys. Realpolitik and logic says Scotland won't be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) There was some research spoken about last week that showed both Borders council areas to be firmly in the No camp along with the North East, the Northern Isles and, surprisingly, the Hebrides. Dundee City was strongest for Yes and the picture elsewhere was mixed. If we vote Yes i'd happily see the borders redrawn - Edinburgh & the borders can stay in the UK (IMO both areas will be overwhelmingly No) and we can leave Glasgow & the frozen north to their own devices. Edited September 15, 2014 by TheMaganator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoJack Horseman Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 If we vote Yes i'd happily see the borders redrawn - Edinburgh & the borders can stay in the UK (IMO both areas will be overwhelmingly No) and we can leave Glasgow & the frozen north to their own devices. I think you're very, very wrong about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc-jambo Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 The attachment gives Press Association estimates of declaration times. Population percentages are interesting. Not 100% sure this is genuine, but can't see why anyone would make it up, so assuming that it is ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I'm sure I read somewhere that the No vote in Dumfries and Galloway could be as high as 80%. I doubt that, but if it was does such a significant rejection of independence raise doubts as to whether they would want to have the borders re-drawn? Probably not, that's a tad extreme, but I can see there being issues if any area votes so highly for the losing side. There was something on Facebook, a table, which had been taken from Scottish Government information that showed some figures. I think it was marked zero to 10 on how they expect various regions to vote. The only two they seemed to expect heavy yes votes in were Dundee and Clackmannanshire. The Borders, Dumfries & Galloway, Ayrshire, Fife, Midlothian, East Lothian, Eileanan Siar (Western Isles), Shetland and Orkney they have already conceded will all vote no, some by huge percentages. I never realised, until I got into a discussion about it the other night, just how much hatred there is for Scottish Nationalism in what were the areas noted for having strong mining communities, and how they still feel sold down the river by the SNP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I don't see why the queen should be neutral about wanting the UK to stay together. Personally she probably isn't, but she is merely today's representative of the Monarchy, and that must remain neutral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I think you're very, very wrong about that. ?50 says Edinburgh votes No? Assuming we're able to get this data... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 If we vote Yes i'd happily see the borders redrawn - Edinburgh & the borders can stay in the UK (IMO both areas will be overwhelmingly No) and we can leave Glasgow & the frozen north to their own devices. Oi!!! Leafy West Aberdeen is ultra-No. Don't leave me to the Neds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) It goes back to whether you think Scotland will be grandfathered into the EU and will be afforded the same status and opt-outs as the UK enjoys. Realpolitik and logic says Scotland won't be. So if Scotland has to apply for EU membership the zero rate will no longer apply and 5% will be the new minimum? This will mean most food items will have 5% VAT and this cost will either have to be absorbed by the super markets or passed on to their customers? Edited September 15, 2014 by Kramer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc-jambo Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 There was something on Facebook, a table, which had been taken from Scottish Government information that showed some figures. I think it was marked zero to 10 on how they expect various regions to vote. The only two they seemed to expect heavy yes votes in were Dundee and Clackmannanshire. The Borders, Dumfries & Galloway, Ayrshire, Fife, Midlothian, East Lothian, Eileanan Siar (Western Isles), Shetland and Orkney they have already conceded will all vote no, some by huge percentages. I never realised, until I got into a discussion about it the other night, just how much hatred there is for Scottish Nationalism in what were the areas noted for having strong mining communities, and how they still feel sold down the river by the SNP. your post is a fairy-tale on so many counts its not true: but in the spirit of helpfulness, I've just put up the document that you refer to ... (its from the press association, not the Scottish government) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Oi!!! Leafy West Aberdeen is ultra-No. Don't leave me to the Neds. Leafy West Aberdeen can join us too - a satellite state Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 There was something on Facebook, a table, which had been taken from Scottish Government information that showed some figures. I think it was marked zero to 10 on how they expect various regions to vote. The only two they seemed to expect heavy yes votes in were Dundee and Clackmannanshire. The Borders, Dumfries & Galloway, Ayrshire, Fife, Midlothian, East Lothian, Eileanan Siar (Western Isles), Shetland and Orkney they have already conceded will all vote no, some by huge percentages. I never realised, until I got into a discussion about it the other night, just how much hatred there is for Scottish Nationalism in what were the areas noted for having strong mining communities, and how they still feel sold down the river by the SNP. Fife voting No? That must be the East half of Fife. The West half - Kirckaldy, Cowdenbeath, Methil, Glenrothes etc must surely be Yes - [modedit] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 eh? Salmond called for the referendum Cameron respected that IN a YES result Cameron should go IN a NO result Salmond should go Personalyl I feel a YES vote should mean an immediate General Election across the UK to reflect the drastic change in the political picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 So if Scotland has to apply for EU membership the zero rate will no longer apply and 5% will be the new minimum? This will mean most food items will have 5% VAT and this cost will either have to be absorbed by the super markets or passed on to their customers? Based on EU treaty, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Fife voting No? That must be the East half of Fife. The West half - Kirckaldy, Cowdenbeath, Methil, Glenrothes etc must surely be Yes - [modedit] Kirkcaldy and Methil would take issue at being called West Fife. Glenrothes is Central Fife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Kirkcaldy and Methil would take issue at being called West Fife. Glenrothes is Central Fife. I was born in Kirckaldy and grew up in Methil, leaving when I was 18. In terms of political persuasion we were aligned to West Fife - very strong Labour. The East was from Leven Eastwards and was Tory, then becoming Liberal (Menzies Campbell) . Anyway my point is that I cannot believe that Fife as a whole is a No area. Methil and Kircaldy will be Yes. We know one voter for sure - that goon that got done for egging. Ironically - Ruth Davidson went to Buckhaven High School. God knows how she survived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boaby Ewing Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Didn't come out and say it - but the implication was clear http://www.telegraph...and-debate.html So he didn't say anything of the sort. Glad we cleared that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 ?50 says Edinburgh votes No? Assuming we're able to get this data... If its a YES vote, what currency will you pay the bet in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 If its a YES vote, what currency will you pay the bet in? Fair point. We'll make it 50 magic beans instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 [deleted] There will be persons from all social backgrounds voting for 'Yes' and for 'No', and it is in our collective interest to acknowledge that without recrimination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 There will be persons from all social backgrounds voting for 'Yes' and for 'No', and it is in our collective interest to acknowledge that without recrimination. Agreed. I am simply pointing out that some areas will be strong Yes, just as equally as some areas will be strong No. So to reconcile these differences is going to be painful either way. If the vote is No then at least the Yes voters will know that some day in the future they will get another chance. Howver if its No, then there is no way back, so in terms of divisiveness a No vote is going to be more painfuul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Now Scotland is threatening the global economy, apparently. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11096481/OECD-warns-divorce-from-Scotland-poses-threat-to-global-economy.html I'm calling bullshit here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-09-15/yes-vote-would-lead-to-sharp-drop-in-house-prices/ Zoopla think Yes vote would lead to a drop of ?31k on the average house price in Scotland. That's something to look forward to at least, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Now Scotland is threatening the global economy, apparently. http://www.telegraph...al-economy.html I'm calling bullshit here! The referendum seems to be a convenient thing to blame certain things on, whether that's from the Yes camp or the No camp. It's nigh on impossible for people to get all the facts/information with so many people muddying the waters like this tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) The referendum seems to be a convenient thing to blame certain things on, whether that's from the Yes camp or the No camp. It's nigh on impossible for people to get all the facts/information with so many people muddying the waters like this tbh. I would agree with this. If anything goes wrong in the next 18 months it will be the fault of referendum. Something easy to hide behind. Also, the ned chat is tongue-in-cheek (as one poster said people from across the spectrum will be voting for both sides), but yes have been targeting these areas heavily for a reason, and are expecting strong support from them. I do agree with Brian Cox's comments (and would anticipate most yes voters do also), he just put it in politer language than some kickbackers! For the most part people will vote out of self-interest (some try to mask it as something else but ultimately our perception of what is best for Scotland and our children and their children etc... is guided by what we think is best for our circumstances), so those who feel that they get a decent deal out of the union will be more inclined to stick with it, than those who feel it hampers them in some way (or those who can be convinced independence offers them more than they already get). Bit of a generalisation of course, but I don't think it's too wide of the mark and seems to be reflected by anticipated vote shares across geographical and class divides. Edited September 15, 2014 by jambo1185 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoJack Horseman Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 ?50 says Edinburgh votes No? Assuming we're able to get this data... No thanks. [modedit] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Now Scotland is threatening the global economy, apparently. http://www.telegraph...al-economy.html I'm calling bullshit here! Its a matter of time before the Telgraph blames the Pandas miscarraige on the Yes Campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoJack Horseman Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 It's patently clear to me that "Better Together" means "Better for England", anyone who thinks that David Cameron and his bunch genuinely and sincerely believe that Scotland will be better off as part of the UK is deluded. He doesn't give two hoots about us. Yes, I know the referendum has as much to do with him as it does Alex Salmond (i.e very little). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Now Scotland is threatening the global economy, apparently. http://www.telegraph...al-economy.html I'm calling bullshit here! It's strange but when you spend an hour or so looking at international newspapers (China/India/Brazil/Russia/Germany), you find you really have to click quite a number of links before you unearth anything about the Scottish referendum. I don't want to tell them how to run their businesses, but given that we're two days from economic armageddon, they've really taken their eye off the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 It's patently clear to me that "Better Together" means "Better for England", anyone who thinks that David Cameron and his bunch genuinely and sincerely believe that Scotland will be better off as part of the UK is deluded. He doesn't give two hoots about us. Yes, I know the referendum has as much to do with him as it does Alex Salmond (i.e very little). Well if the vote is Yes - DC will get immediately booted, so he can come to Scotland and stand for pm up here. After all it will be he who got the Independence in the bag in the first place so he should be popular!!! Maybe he is Ecks Agent in Westminster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Forgive me for sounding a bit dim, but when will we find out the results of Thursdays vote, and when will it be official? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Forgive me for sounding a bit dim, but when will we find out the results of Thursdays vote, and when will it be official? From the timetable posted earlier it looks like Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Glasgow will be the last to declare (at 6am) so it may go right down to the wire. And then allow time for re-counts..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 1974 aye ? Ok. You are happy to have been consistently lied to over oil reserves? You don't think that the establishment which lied to you in the past, may just be lying to you now as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoJack Horseman Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Currency question. Obviously a change in currency will not happen over night. It could take many years. Look at the Czechs, or the Danes. So if we take our time to change currency, what are we in in the meantime, if not a "currency union"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Phamism Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 My missus is working on the Edinburgh count at Ingliston and they are estimating a 5am declaration (for Edinburgh only). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Currency question. Obviously a change in currency will not happen over night. It could take many years. Look at the Czechs, or the Danes. So if we take our time to change currency, what are we in in the meantime, if not a "currency union"? The Bank of England has already said, until independence is declared, it is the central bank for the whole UK. After that, it will depend if there is any lender of last resort. If there isn't, then none of your savings can be guaranteed as there is under the FSCS at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 From the timetable posted earlier it looks like Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Glasgow will be the last to declare (at 6am) so it may go right down to the wire. And then allow time for re-counts..... I'll look forward to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoJack Horseman Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 The Bank of England has already said, until independence is declared, it is the central bank for the whole UK. After that, it will depend if there is any lender of last resort. If there isn't, then none of your savings can be guaranteed as there is under the FSCS at present. Did that answer my question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Did that answer my question? I believe so. "Sterlingisation" is using sterling unilaterally. That isn't a currency union because there is no mutual underwriting of debts by taxpayers in both jurisdictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Did that answer my question? I would assume the currency option has to be agreed over the next 18 months and will then be implemented from the first day of independence. The currency union will be there until independence officially begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Currency question. Obviously a change in currency will not happen over night. It could take many years. Look at the Czechs, or the Danes. So if we take our time to change currency, what are we in in the meantime, if not a "currency union"? We will use the pound - in the same way that Panama uses the US dollar. That is not a currency union. That is merely using the pound. There is a difference between currency union and sterlingisation. Though Salmond hopes that most people will not realise this - that is why he had that embarrassing performance at the second debate "ah ha, ah ha looky looky what Darling has just admitted - WE CAN USE THE POUNDZ!" Aye pal, very good. Unfortunately it seems Salmond may have been correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1185 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 NUJ getting involved now: http://www.nuj.org.uk/news/nuj-calls-for-end-to-threats-and-intimidation-of-journalists/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 NUJ getting involved now: http://www.nuj.org.u...of-journalists/ Oooft - I think we all know who this is aimed at! "More widely, the NUJ asks the leadership on both sides to consider carefully the implications of their attacks on journalists for asking challenging questions. If that is to be interpreted as bias, and therefore the journalist is deemed to be open to personal criticism and abuse, then the nature of public debate will be debased, and we will all suffer" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Did that answer my question? Yes - Scotland can use the pound WITHOUT permission, but if bank goes pete tong all your money goes with it, with no compensation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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