Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[Das Root]

Is that not an argument against being a smaller independent nation? In that diplomatic pressure can be easily brought to bear on a smaller nation to bend to the will of larger ones?

 

 

Somewhat like Westminster telling us what to do and how to live maybe? Spain are sabre rattling, it's all for internal politics, he doesn't care if Scotland joins up or not and when it comes to the crunch would never veto. Never.

[Ulysses]

I wonder what part Uly's argument would play in the devo campaign? Equally, and like I've said to Jambo x2 - will your positions be advanced by voting 'no'?

 

I don't have a position to be advanced by voting No (or Yes, for that matter).

 

 

Uly's argument in a devo context was hit on very well - Scotland is a nation with a distinct character, which can achieve great things as part of the multi-cultural and multi-national British state.

 

In fairness to, er, me, that's not my argument or my position. My contention is that many people believe that Scotland's distinct character and identity can thrive as part of Britain, and as such they are the people that the Yes campaign have to persuade to change their minds if they are going to win the referendum.

 

As someone who has more than a passing familiarity with Gaelic influences on identity, I would say that Scotland's identity is Gaelic-influenced, but significantly less so than Ireland's.

 

I still recall the somewhat odd experience of being on a flight with SAS from Copenhagen to Stockholm almost 20 years ago, and hearing a steward offering people refreshments in a Scottish accent that was very difficult but not impossible to understand - only to realise as he got closer to my seat that he was in fact speaking a mixture of Danish and Swedish.

 

Now that's an influence that is much stronger in Scotland than in Ireland.

[GrimUpNorth]

Is there a link for fuller analysis of that poll? Interesting stuff. Would suggest the Independence Manifesto is a flop.

 

http://news.stv.tv/politics/252342-stv-poll-on-independence-referendum-puts-yes-at-34-and-no-at-57/

 

That 55+ age group (62% No, 29% Yes) has to be a worry for Yes Scotland as well, considering these age ranges throughout history have higher turnouts.

[southside1874]

Well I will vote for an independent country. I don't care what the polls say. Scotland exports far more than it imports and that my friends is the basis of a good country to live in. If some folk can't realise this basic principle then it's going to take a while longer. I do understand the debate. It's up to you.

[TheMaganator]

 

The FT has a quote from a top executive in one if the top 4 saying "we'd treat it as an international market and act accordingly by putting our prices up".

 

The FT isn't one to make stuff up.

 

More likely they've now denied it because of backlash.

 

Let's not forget a Salmond saying that the Economist would 'rue the day' for Skintgate. The BBC article above has quotes from a business leader talking of the reaction he got for going against the SNP msg & we hear stories of SNP MSPs telephoning universities to complain about academics speaking out.

 

Anyone who thinks this government isn't behaving appallingly (and quite worryingly) needs to have a word with themselves.

 

Edited December 10, 2013 by TheMaganator

[JamboX2]

 

 

Somewhat like Westminster telling us what to do and how to live maybe? Spain are sabre rattling, it's all for internal politics, he doesn't care if Scotland joins up or not and when it comes to the crunch would never veto. Never.

 

Have you spoken to Mr Rajoy? Not that I have but I would say that his position will be determined by Spain's national interest and no one elses.

 

 

[JamboX2]

 

In fairness to, er, me, that's not my argument or my position. My contention is that many people believe that Scotland's distinct character and identity can thrive as part of Britain, and as such they are the people that the Yes campaign have to persuade to change their minds if they are going to win the referendum.

 

That position, or belief, fits in well with the idea o devolution. What I was getting at is that if you subscribe to that view the devolution settlement is your natural home. Not independence.

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

 

 

The FT has a quote from a top executive in one if the top 4 saying "we'd treat it as an international market and act accordingly by putting our prices up".

 

The FT isn't one to make stuff up.

 

More likely they've now denied it because of backlash.

 

Let's not forget a Salmond saying that the Economist would 'rue the day' for Skintgate. The BBC article above has quotes from a business leader talking of the reaction he got for going against the SNP msg & we hear stories of SNP MSPs telephoning universities to complain about academics speaking out.

 

Anyone who thinks this government isn't behaving appallingly (and quite worryingly) needs to have a word with themselves.

 

If this was to happen after a Yes vote then market forces dictate that the "big 4" would be told by the people of Scotland to shove their stores clean up their arses!

Co-op, Lidl, Aldi, indepenant stores or a move back to the old butcher, fishmonger, grocery high street set up would get the footfall (which I think would be good for the high street).

Holding a threat like this to a nation never ends well. Tesco et-al have far too much invested in this country to even consider doing this.

 

It's simply ANOTHER fear monger statement from a guy who loves the status quo.

[TheMaganator]

If this was to happen after a Yes vote then market forces dictate that the "big 4" would be told by the people of Scotland to shove their stores clean up their arses!

Co-op, Lidl, Aldi, indepenant stores or a move back to the old butcher, fishmonger, grocery high street set up would get the footfall (which I think would be good for the high street).

Holding a threat like this to a nation never ends well. Tesco et-al have far too much invested in this country to even consider doing this.

 

It's simply ANOTHER fear monger statement from a guy who loves the status quo.

Why would the big four have an interest in maintaining the UK?

 

Pointing out negative things that could be a result of independence is not scaremongering. There are pros and cons. To dismiss all the cons as scaremongering is not credible. Saying everything will be better and there will be no downsides is not credible.

 

The constant use of ?scaremongering? makes the Yes camp look ridiculous.

 

We (supposedly ? the FT could have made it up) an executive of one of the big four saying prices would go up. But, of course, the Yes camp no better than the people running the organisations themselves. Just like they no better that the Spanish PM etc

[jambos are go!]

Find it hard to believe that Germany and France will take more account of what an applicant nation like a newly Independent Scotland would want ahead of a much bigger legitimately concerned member state like Spain. Turkey has been blocked entry to the EC for decades by the Greeks in particular.

[Gizmo]

Why would the big four have an interest in maintaining the UK?

 

Pointing out negative things that could be a result of independence is not scaremongering. There are pros and cons. To dismiss all the cons as scaremongering is not credible. Saying everything will be better and there will be no downsides is not credible.

 

The constant use of ?scaremongering? makes the Yes camp look ridiculous.

 

We (supposedly ? the FT could have made it up) an executive of one of the big four saying prices would go up. But, of course, the Yes camp no better than the people running the organisations themselves. Just like they no better that the Spanish PM etc

 

Did you read the rebuttals? Two of the "big 4" denied this and the other two distanced themselves. It's mischief-making - do you honestly believe these companies would seek to alienate their customers? Why would costs rise, incidentally, considering the infrastructure from workers, warehouses, delivery trucks etc are already in place anyway and much of the goods are sourced locally?

 

Find it hard to believe that Germany and France will take more account of what an applicant nation like a newly Independent Scotland would want ahead of a much bigger legitimately concerned member state like Spain. Turkey has been blocked entry to the EC for decades by the Greeks in particular.

 

You really think the EU would prevent a nation with a strong financial centre, rich in energy/resources and a big exporter, from continuing/rejoining? We may have to make a long-term commitment to joining the Euro but we will be part of the EU. More than can be said for remaining within the UK and being subjected to the wishes of an increasingly xenophobic/right wing English vote in the promised EU referendum.

 

Well I will vote for an independent country. I don't care what the polls say. Scotland exports far more than it imports and that my friends is the basis of a good country to live in. If some folk can't realise this basic principle then it's going to take a while longer. I do understand the debate. It's up to you.

 

Precisely! This country has it's own unique identity which is preserved in many areas. Does the UK have a collective identity or even a national dress/food etc? No, and why - because it's simply a political Union which has seen it's time pass.

 

Voting YES is not voting FOR Independence in my opinion anyway, it is actually about restoring an ancient nation BACK to where it should always have been before a "parcel of rogues" took a decision that the people had no say in.

 

Righting a wrong you could say. The debate is white noise and I think the YES campaigners should stop shying away from sentiment and start reeling in the undecideds on an more emotive level.

[Pans Jambo]

Why would the big four have an interest in maintaining the UK?

 

Pointing out negative things that could be a result of independence is not scaremongering. There are pros and cons. To dismiss all the cons as scaremongering is not credible. Saying everything will be better and there will be no downsides is not credible.

 

The constant use of ?scaremongering? makes the Yes camp look ridiculous.

 

We (supposedly ? the FT could have made it up) an executive of one of the big four saying prices would go up. But, of course, the Yes camp no better than the people running the organisations themselves. Just like they no better that the Spanish PM etc

I don't think they do, just the bloke that was interviewed in the article.

 

Its a nonsense that prices would rise as the people would not spend their money there. Not that complicated really. As I said, too much invested up here for the big 4 to upset things and risk their investment. Tesco are already "greetin" about a reduction in their profits as it is.

 

The Spanish PM? DO you mean his comments on the EU membership that was really designed as a "shot across the bows" of Catalonia (which was quickly back tracked by his staff as as "translation" error)?

 

It is scaremongering and you know it! complete nonsense. If the No camp said something grown-up I might actually pay attention. Folk are seeing clean through their "you canny dae it" nonsense.

 

They come out and state that "of course Scotland can be independent" and "Yes Scotland could be a resourceful and vibrant nation" and then they say we cant afford it!

 

Lies and Scaremongering and that's all they have! We could go over every point in the white paper and still they would cry for answers unyet they cant even produce a single page document of what benefits we will have as part of the union in 12 months never mind 5 or 10 years because the No camp do not agree with each other on anything.

 

Vote No & work until your 70 with 40% lopped off your pension! Great, where do I sign up for that one???

[TheMaganator]

I don't think they do, just the bloke that was interviewed in the article.

 

Its a nonsense that prices would rise as the people would not spend their money there. Not that complicated really. As I said, too much invested up here for the big 4 to upset things and risk their investment. Tesco are already "greetin" about a reduction in their profits as it is.

 

The Spanish PM? DO you mean his comments on the EU membership that was really designed as a "shot across the bows" of Catalonia (which was quickly back tracked by his staff as as "translation" error)?

 

 

This isn't true

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/dec/08/independent-scotland-would-be-ejected-from-eu-mariano-rajoy

 

It undoubtedly is about Catalan - but again you have dismissed it because it goes against what you have been assured by the Yes camp.

 

If people are seeing through the No deception, as you assert it is, then where is your big shift in the polls? I think a more accurate assessment is that people are seeing through the Yes assertions that everything will be alright and there is nothing to worry about.

 

Feel free to carry on dismissing everything as scaremongering. It doesn't bother me at all. It hasnt worked thus far and it will not help you in the next 10 months.

[Pans Jambo]

This isn't true

 

http://www.theguardi...u-mariano-rajoy

 

It undoubtedly is about Catalan - but again you have dismissed it because it goes against what you have been assured by the Yes camp.

 

If people are seeing through the No deception, as you assert it is, then where is your big shift in the polls? I think a more accurate assessment is that people are seeing through the Yes assertions that everything will be alright and there is nothing to worry about.

 

Feel free to carry on dismissing everything as scaremongering. It doesn't bother me at all. It hasnt worked thus far and it will not help you in the next 10 months.

 

Therein lies the issue for the "better together" mob, you say we believe what we are being fed by the Yes movement but the very same logic applies to you!

 

Spin, lies and scaremongering. For every "expert" the No campaign wheel out the YES campaign wheel out 3 with a more realistic view. I generally do take their view as they want positive change, not more drudgery. Balance and logic versus doom, gloom and negativity.

 

I am positive that Scotland will NOT be the land of milk and honey following independence but will it be better than it is now?????

 

YES

[Pans Jambo]

Find it hard to believe that Germany and France will take more account of what an applicant nation like a newly Independent Scotland would want ahead of a much bigger legitimately concerned member state like Spain. Turkey has been blocked entry to the EC for decades by the Greeks in particular.

 

How about as a starting point the biggest fishing waters in Europe and the largest oil deposits. Do you think they would NOT want that???

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

How about as a starting point the biggest fishing waters in Europe and the largest oil deposits. Do you think they would NOT want that???

 

Why do you want to share them?

[Pans Jambo]

Why do you want to share them?

 

What do you mean? Keep ALL the oil and the fish to ourselves?

 

Or trade them to other countries like grown ups?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

What do you mean? Keep ALL the oil and the fish to ourselves?

 

Or trade them to other countries like grown ups?

 

Trade, yes. Why allow the Spanish, for example, to fish in them as happens now?

[TheMaganator]

SNP councillors have called for a supermarket boycott

 

'free, open debate', aye?

 

So long as you dont go against the SNP msg.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

SNP councillors have called for a supermarket boycott

 

'free, open debate', aye?

 

So long as you dont go against the SNP msg.

 

That is mental!

[jack D and coke]

 

SNP councillors have called for a supermarket boycott

 

'free, open debate', aye?

 

So long as you dont go against the SNP msg.

That is utterly ludicrous if true.

Seems three of the four have denied the claims though, Tesco claiming they weren't even asked and Morrisons even claiming prices could fall in this article although granted it's a pro indy site....

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/8448-food-prices-could-fall-in-independent-scotland-says-supermarket-giant

Like all things though it's anybody's guess what could happen but I'm sure if one was to raise the other could capitalise.

[jambos are go!]

How about as a starting point the biggest fishing waters in Europe and the largest oil deposits. Do you think they would NOT want that???

 

We would have to find somebody who wants them given we dont eat the fish.We will be pleading with them to trade.

[flecktimus]

That is mental!

 

Whats mental

[TheMaganator]

That is utterly ludicrous if true.

Seems three of the four have denied the claims though, Tesco claiming they weren't even asked and Morrisons even claiming prices could fall in this article although granted it's a pro indy site....

http://www.newsnetsc...permarket-giant

Like all things though it's anybody's guess what could happen but I'm sure if one was to raise the other could capitalise.

 

Yup - and Yes Scotand's Stan Blackley, deputy director of communities has said:

 

"Wouldn?t it be great if Tesco, Sainsbury?s, Morrisons (and) Asda just left Scotland after Yes vote,?

 

Are people surprised that the other supermarkets have now distances themselves from the FT article - when boycotts are being called for? I mean, come on guys!

 

A few weeks ago we had a SNP MSP calling a university to complain about one of their academics speaking out.

 

This is utterly uttrerly deplorable and cannot be defended - it should not be tolertated. This is an abscene abuse of power.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Whats mental

 

A supermarket boycott campaign.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Yup - and Yes Scotand's Stan Blackley, deputy director of communities has said:

 

"Wouldn?t it be great if Tesco, Sainsbury?s, Morrisons (and) Asda just left Scotland after Yes vote,?

 

Are people surprised that the other supermarkets have now distances themselves from the FT article - when boycotts are being called for? I mean, come on guys!

 

A few weeks ago we had a SNP MSP calling a university to complain about one of their academics speaking out.

 

This is utterly uttrerly deplorable and cannot be defended - it should not be tolertated. This is an abscene abuse of power.

 

The thing is that crap like this is counter-productive. If these activists create a lot of noise over a non-issue, people are going to ask why. Are they scared of business affecting the voting outcome? If so, it sounds like insecurity in their own argument.

[flecktimus]

A supermarket boycott campaign.

 

I have not seen any boycott campaign sources yet.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I have not seen any boycott campaign sources yet.

 

Fair enough, maybe Magnator is reporting unsubstantiated gossip. It sounds too far-fetched to be made up though.

[Pans Jambo]

Trade, yes. Why allow the Spanish, for example, to fish in them as happens now?

Cant answer that one but you have to ask, if Spain uses our sovereign territorial water to fish in, would it not make sense for then to support Scotland in the EU so they would then be allowed to continue?

 

Point is, we are not some small back water country like perhaps Romania with a huge pull on the EU resources to get it up to an EU standard country with huge infrastructure projects etc.

 

Scotland are ready made and has a lot to offer.

 

Or can we just no dae it?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Cant answer that one but you have to ask, if Spain uses our sovereign territorial water to fish in, would it not make sense for then to support Scotland in the EU so they would then be allowed to continue?

 

Point is, we are not some small back water country like perhaps Romania with a huge pull on the EU resources to get it up to an EU standard country with huge infrastructure projects etc.

 

Scotland are ready made and has a lot to offer.

 

Or can we just no dae it?

 

I have no doubt that Scotland can "dae it". I just don't get why it is falling over itself to surrender powers it will obtain so meekly.

 

In this case, explain how the CFP, the ludicrous policy which allows landlocked European countries a vote on EU wide fishing rights, is in Scotland's interests?

[Coco]

Fair enough, maybe Magnator is reporting unsubstantiated gossip. It sounds too far-fetched to be made up though.

 

Quotes here.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10506626/Nationalist-anger-at-supermarkets-over-independence-food-price-warning.html

 

Of course this is noise. But the bigger issue is of course the dynamic effects on business of changes to business environment. Notwithstanding that the SNP aim in monetary and fiscal policy is for convergence between the economies of Scotland and the rest of the UK in the putative currency union - the issues about regulations are important. Why would the big Scottish banks or other financial institutions want to retain their staff and operations in a foreign country from most of their business? The quality of the Scottish workforce?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Quotes here.

 

http://www.telegraph...ce-warning.html

 

Of course this is noise. But the bigger issue is of course the dynamic effects on business of changes to business environment. Notwithstanding that the SNP aim in monetary and fiscal policy is for convergence between the economies of Scotland and the rest of the UK in the putative currency union - the issues about regulations are important. Why would the big Scottish banks or other financial institutions want to retain their staff and operations in a foreign country from most of their business? The quality of the Scottish workforce?

 

So it appears it is an idiot Weegie councillor.

 

Worthy of this.

 

[Pans Jambo]

I have no doubt that Scotland can "dae it". I just don't get why it is falling over itself to surrender powers it will obtain so meekly.

 

In this case, explain how the CFP, the ludicrous policy which allows landlocked European countries a vote on EU wide fishing rights, is in Scotland's interests?

 

I think the EU is a lot more than just fishing rights. The democracy on voting is the same for all EU members surely, regardless if they are land locked or not and on many other matters. I guess its a bit like the "West Lothian Question" that the MP's complain about currently. The UK will now be voting on matters really not concerning it geographically and land locked countries will be voting on fishing rights! Not perfect but nobody says democracy is.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I think the EU is a lot more than just fishing rights. The democracy on voting is the same for all EU members surely, regardless if they are land locked or not and on many other matters. I guess its a bit like the "West Lothian Question" that the MP's complain about currently. The UK will now be voting on matters really not concerning it geographically and land locked countries will be voting on fishing rights! Not perfect but nobody says democracy is.

 

Yes, indeed it is.

 

However, leaving aside the arguments of whether Scotland qualifies for UK opt-outs, Scotland should be seriously asking what EU membership brings that benefits it. For example, if Scotland was in EFTA, it would not have to be in the CFP but would have still have access to the single market. However, the debate is stymied because of this "we'll get in, no we won't" pantomime, rather than assessing the pros and cons of the thing in the first place.

[TheMaganator]

Quotes here.

 

http://www.telegraph...ce-warning.html

 

Of course this is noise. But the bigger issue is of course the dynamic effects on business of changes to business environment. Notwithstanding that the SNP aim in monetary and fiscal policy is for convergence between the economies of Scotland and the rest of the UK in the putative currency union - the issues about regulations are important. Why would the big Scottish banks or other financial institutions want to retain their staff and operations in a foreign country from most of their business? The quality of the Scottish workforce?

 

David Turner, an SNP councillor from Glasgow, tweeted: ?Now it looks as though two of the major supermarkets are part of the Better Together campaign. Time to boycott.?

[jack D and coke]

 

 

 

Yup - and Yes Scotand's Stan Blackley, deputy director of communities has said:

 

"Wouldn?t it be great if Tesco, Sainsbury?s, Morrisons (and) Asda just left Scotland after Yes vote,?

 

Are people surprised that the other supermarkets have now distances themselves from the FT article - when boycotts are being called for? I mean, come on guys!

 

A few weeks ago we had a SNP MSP calling a university to complain about one of their academics speaking out.

 

This is utterly uttrerly deplorable and cannot be defended - it should not be tolertated. This is an abscene abuse of power.

It doesn't do their cause any good that's for sure although I believe it's one councillor who made it clear the opinion is his own and not that of the party or government.

[Pans Jambo]

Yes, indeed it is.

 

However, leaving aside the arguments of whether Scotland qualifies for UK opt-outs, Scotland should be seriously asking what EU membership brings that benefits it. For example, if Scotland was in EFTA, it would not have to be in the CFP but would have still have access to the single market. However, the debate is stymied because of this "we'll get in, no we won't" pantomime, rather than assessing the pros and cons of the thing in the first place.

 

Quite, and I have said earlier in this thread that personally, I really dont care if we are in or out but I cant be arsed with the naysayers. It is a pantomime.

[Pans Jambo]

David Turner, an SNP councillor from Glasgow, tweeted: ?Now it looks as though two of the major supermarkets are part of the Better Together campaign. Time to boycott.?

 

My initial reaction is the guy is an arse! I'm pretty sure boycotting the multiples are not part of the white paper or future plans. Not even sure if his views are echoed by the campaign leaders.

 

And then I think what if Morrisons (as an example) came out and put its weight behind the YES campaign. What do you think the fall-out from that would be from the NO lot?

[Coco]

Quite, and I have said earlier in this thread that personally, I really dont care if we are in or out but I cant be arsed with the naysayers. It is a pantomime.

 

There's no doubt that the EU (if we look at it in the form of the bureaucrats rather than the States) would want Scotland in.

 

The first issue is the conditions of membership. Is negotiation from within possible? Or not? How much would the economic powerhouse have to pay (perhaps losing the UK rebate) etc.?

 

Second is why aren't the Scottish public going to be asked if we want to be in or not?

[TheMaganator]

 

 

My initial reaction is the guy is an arse! I'm pretty sure boycotting the multiples are not part of the white paper or future plans. Not even sure if his views are echoed by the campaign leaders.

 

And then I think what if Morrisons (as an example) came out and put its weight behind the YES campaign. What do you think the fall-out from that would be from the NO lot?

I'm really not sure.

 

My picture framer has Yes documents in his shop & it doesn't stop me using him.

 

Id be ashamed if any No or better together types attempted to boycott anything or anyone because of their political beliefs.

 

Christ - if we're to have any sort of society here after this thing people need to start behaving properly. Our government should be leading by example - sadly it's doing the opposite

[TheMaganator]

 

 

It doesn't do their cause any good that's for sure although I believe it's one councillor who made it clear the opinion is his own and not that of the party or government.

Think that was the Yes man, rather than the SNP chap but still...

[Des' Dad]

Don't know if this has been debated on this thread but if the SNP are wrong (surely not) and we have to negotiate to get into the EU will the terms of entry be put to the people of Scotland in a referendum? Surely a democratic party like the SNP would not deny the people a choice which may include an acceptance of the Eurozone conditions for example. If the rest of the UK are getting a referendum on the question, why not the Scots? Can't see anything in the white paper about a referendum.

[TheMaganator]

Don't know if this has been debated on this thread but if the SNP are wrong (surely not) and we have to negotiate to get into the EU will the terms of entry be put to the people of Scotland in a referendum? Surely a democratic party like the SNP would not deny the people a choice which may include an acceptance of the Eurozone conditions for example. If the rest of the UK are getting a referendum on the question, why not the Scots? Can't see anything in the white paper about a referendum.

 

It certainly has been mentioned. I share your view that we should get a referendum on this if we vote Yes - the SNP and Salmond do not think so. I am not sure if any of the Scottish branches have mentioned the issue or not.

[Pans Jambo]

It certainly has been mentioned. I share your view that we should get a referendum on this if we vote Yes - the SNP and Salmond do not think so. I am not sure if any of the Scottish branches have mentioned the issue or not.

 

Goes back to the first argument.

 

When Scotland has independence we can choose our own path. Agree that the SNP has not intimated it wants a vote on the EU but who says it will be the SNP running Scotland in 3 years?

If Scotland WANTS a referendum on the EU after a YES vote then I have no doubt she will HAVE one.

[JamboInSouthsea]

Trade, yes. Why allow the Spanish, for example, to fish in them as happens now?

 

I think this was part of the initial joining conditions signed by the UK...giving other countries access to the fishing.

[JamboInSouthsea]

We would have to find somebody who wants them given we dont eat the fish.We will be pleading with them to trade.

 

Think it will be the other way round and we will having countries pleading to buy...most fish from Scottish waters heads to the continent anyway with Spain and France being big buyers.

[Boris]

 

 

 

 

Second is why aren't the Scottish public going to be asked if we want to be in or not?

 

Maybe they will at some point?

 

Or perhaps our constitution will mean any EU changes need ratified by plebiscite a la the Irish.

[jambos are go!]

Think it will be the other way round and we will having countries pleading to buy...most fish from Scottish waters heads to the continent anyway with Spain and France being big buyers.

 

And who will be landing all that fish given we have a tiny fleet?

[jambos are go!]

How about as a starting point the biggest fishing waters in Europe and the largest oil deposits. Do you think they would NOT want that???

Turkey is probably the most strategically important country in Europe standing at the gateway to Asia and the Med. It is a fully active and vital member of Nato. Despite its vital importance it has been blocked from EC membership for decades by the lighweight and economically non functional Greeks. Norway has more oil than Scotland but according to its PM is run by fax from Brussels anyway. Why would the EC the give more priority to an anti Euro applicant Scotland over the concerns from founder member and Euro nation Spain wanting to apply a legitimate treaty based Veto.

[Pans Jambo]

And who will be landing all that fish given we have a tiny fleet?

We can build more on the Clyde when the rUK fall out with themselves and take their toys (sorry ship building contracts) away after a YES vote!