Jamie_the_Jambo Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 As it says. Are Hearts duty bound to look at this incident and make a decision? Yes or No ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 No. There was no nazi salute - as explained on another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie Masterton Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 As it says. Are Hearts duty bound to look at this incident and make a decision? Yes or No ? You want to take up knitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1874M Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Understand the above post and prob agree but if a complaint is made then the club should investigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 As I never seen it at the game or on tv, I can't answer. You say it was made, Another poster says it wasn't. You do seem to have a problem with it though so report it, You can't do any more than that. I would suggest you ask yourself why this persons 'actions' are causing you offence though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McJambo Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 To be fair there plenty of the Hibs fans crossing themselves etc he was probably just giving them a bit of stick back. I haven't seen it tho so maybe I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Yeah it was only symbolsing the Red Hand of Ulster, so that's okay then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearts @ heart Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 I dont think they are duty bound but in all honesty we can do without this crap. I want to go a long and support my team and pick up the papers or go on messageboards and read about good things about hearts. Get pi88ed off with this small ring circus thats going on. So the club have all told us what is acceptable and not on the website and at very home game. I am sure the Romanovs would find a Nazi salute offensive also. I think the time has come for these people with no regard for the good name of Hearts to be weeded out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bindy Badgy Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 To be fair there plenty of the Hibs fans crossing themselves etc he was probably just giving them a bit of stick back. I haven't seen it tho so maybe I'm wrong. He was facing away from the away fans so it was directed towards the cameras. To be honest I'm not sure if it was a Nazi salute or not. It didn't look like his arm was ever fully extended so it might of just been a GIUY fist pump. Having said that my copy of the game is very poor so it was pretty hard to tell what was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 He was facing away from the away fans so it was directed towards the cameras. To be honest I'm not sure if it was a Nazi salute or not. It didn't look like his arm was ever fully extended so it might of just been a GIUY fist pump. Having said that my copy of the game is very poor so it was pretty hard to tell what was going on. Can the Police 'PROVE' it was a 'nazi' salute ? 100% no. There is your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1874M Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Can the Police 'PROVE' it was a 'nazi' salute ? 100% no. There is your answer. No its not... The answer is alot simpler to us.... hearts fans. Should it be investigated? Answer. Yes if it was reported as harming or offending some one No if it wasnt. Thats all we should have to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romanov Stole My Pension Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 IMO Hearts shouldn't look at it. Hearts must pay thousands of pounds every game for policing, if they can't do their job properly, that shouldn't mean that Hearts have to spend even more money to correct them. I still don't understand why someone feels the need to give any kind of salute (nazi or red hand) when the guy has most probably has no connection with Ulster and no connection with Nazis. I just think it's strange, I don't take offence from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerothehero Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Whatever the symbolic nature of the salute, it's clearly to provoke and clearly by someone who probably has no idea of what it's about. Some little chav in our support thinks he's being clever and all it does it bring the apologists for that behaviour out in the open. One way or the other this sort of crap reflects badly on all of us and if nothing else, gives the people who love to snipe at us plenty of ammunition. As if they needed any. Nothing to do with free speech and nothing to do with Hearts, so why tolerate it at Tynecastle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 1 bloke out of 17500. Bloke sounds like a total schemie knob, but who gives a toss really? Some folk on here have nothing else to worry about in their lives. Sure the club will deal with it as they see fit. Can we get down to discussing the fact we just beat the lochend deadbeats and the fact we have a massive game this Tuesday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julio Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 As it says. Are Hearts duty bound to look at this incident and make a decision? Yes or No ? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 There is video evidence. Its clear as day. It should be investigated by the club first, then if they want, the police. Should be used as a message to send to all those knuckledragging clowns who think its ok, or defend the 'right' to act in such a manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Can the Police 'PROVE' it was a 'nazi' salute ? 100% no. There is your answer. The OP wasn't asking if the police can prove it though. He asked "Should the Nazi salute be investigated by the club As it says. Are Hearts duty bound to look at this incident and make a decision? Yes or No ? " So, can the police 'prove' it was a nazi salute? - No. Should the Nazi salute be investigated by the club? - Yes. Some say it was a nazi salute, some say it wasn't. I'd be dismayed if anyone would object to the club investigating it, if they are asked to of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sifter Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 ONE "SALUTE"!!!! Whilst not condoning it.......anyone else think the OP should get a life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 ONE "SALUTE"!!!! Whilst not condoning it.......anyone else think the OP should get a life? Yes. Some people need to wake up and realise they live a World that does not have lots of nice little pink fluffy clouds in the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Yes. Some people need to wake up and realise they live a World that does not have lots of nice little pink fluffy clouds in the sky. Of course. But im not sure why your so against them trying to make things a little better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 To be fair there plenty of the Hibs fans crossing themselves etc he was probably just giving them a bit of stick back. I haven't seen it tho so maybe I'm wrong. You're not suggesting that crossing yourself is on a par with a Nazi salute? But based on this guy's previous behaviour, then it looked more like a GIRUY gesture. Not seen yesterday's version. If it was a red hand, that's just stupid and as relevant to Hearts as the Norwegian national anthem. In fact, out of respect to the late great Roald, the latter would make more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 The OP wasn't asking if the police can prove it though. He asked "Should the Nazi salute be investigated by the club As it says. Are Hearts duty bound to look at this incident and make a decision? Yes or No ? " So, can the police 'prove' it was a nazi salute? - No. Should the Nazi salute be investigated by the club? - Yes. Some say it was a nazi salute, some say it wasn't. I'd be dismayed if anyone would object to the club investigating it, if they are asked to of course. That was my point. Nothing can be proved by the Police. Therefore nothing can be proved by the club. So what are they going to do ? They would have to ask the person their side of the story. They are not going to admit it was a 'nazi salute'. They will probably say they were beating thier chest taking the mick out of Pressley or a hibbie fan or who knows what. The club would have no option but to take the persons word for it. Unless of course they have invented some sort of mind reading device in the last 24 hours....... So in conclusion any investigation would be a WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY. There would be no point. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 That was my point. Nothing can be proved by the Police. Therefore nothing can be proved by the club. So what are they going to do ? They would have to ask the person their side of the story. They are not going to admit it was a 'nazi salute'. They will probably say they were beating thier chest taking the mick out of Pressley or a hibbie fan or who knows what. The club would have no option but to take the persons word for it. Unless of course they have invented some sort of mind reading device in the last 24 hours....... So in conclusion any investigation would be a WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY. There would be no point. End of story. What has the police got to do with this? IF they are asked, IMO, the CLUB are duty bound to investigate, maybe even look at the footage of the alledged incident. Anyway, do the police only investigate crimes where they can prove someone did something wrong? Sorry, just noticed your "end of story". Apologies for posting further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerothehero Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 I cannae see how it's the end of the story either? I don't think anyone here was up all night worrying about it but do you not find it embarrassing that Jambos have to explain this stuff away as being just one Ned in the crowd? Go along, abuse the Hobos and get right into it but don't go out of your way to act like a total Fandan every time the cameras show up. What possible harm could there be in the club investigating this if it meant we didn't have to have these threads every week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 As it says. Are Hearts duty bound to look at this incident and make a decision? Yes or No ? Yawn. If people believe that a particular body or authority should investigate any such incident, it is up to them make the body or authority aware of the evidence. Yet another tedious thread filled with people stating their outrage/indifference about such an incident on this messageboard isn't gonna make any difference to anything in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawrrrrrrr Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Have you actually bothered to report it yet? If the answer is yes then yes If the answer is no then no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troonjambo Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 1 bloke out of 17500. Bloke sounds like a total schemie knob, but who gives a toss really? Some folk on here have nothing else to worry about in their lives. Sure the club will deal with it as they see fit. Can we get down to discussing the fact we just beat the lochend deadbeats and the fact we have a massive game this Tuesday? all that really matter to the hmfc supporters at the moment should be tuesday the only chancre of european football and perhapes more importantly grabbing back some respect from the rest off scotish football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 If someone makes a complaint and they think it is a valid one then it should be investigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Where is the option of "Whats the point in reporting it to the club because they do sweet FA about it anyway" I would have voted for that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naeclue Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Yet another tedious thread filled with people stating their outrage/indifference about such an incident on this messageboard isn't gonna make any difference to anything in the real world. Couldn't you say that about every thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Couldn't you say that about every thread? He could, but some only say that about topics that they aren't interested in being aired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Where is the option of "Whats the point in reporting it to the club because they do sweet FA about it anyway" I would have voted for that one. Such a lack of faith in HMFC !!! They have actually done something about it already, they closed section N1 !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Absolutely yes. I don't care if it was a Nazi salute or a Red Hand. Both of them are vile and have no place at Tynecastle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambojambo Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 wasnt a nazi salute, we all know what he was doing, ok it wasnt great but stop being so pc, its a bloody football match for christs sake, we are beggining to kill the atmosphere by pin pointing every little incedent, soon you'll get chucked out for shouting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 wasnt a nazi salute, we all know what he was doing, ok it wasnt great but stop being so pc, its a bloody football match for christs sake, we are beggining to kill the atmosphere by pin pointing every little incedent, soon you'll get chucked out for shouting! I work with someone who is a steward for Arsenal. They have introduced a new system for reporting abuse. Be afraid, be very afraid. I hope it never catches on up here. They have a dedicated number you can text if you find any fans shouting 'offensive' things. You just text the seat and area they are in, what they are wearing and what the 'offense' was. You do this by putting a prefix on hte message, for example: homo - section 3 seat 29 red jacket. That would mean there was a homophobic remark made by that person. The control office then come down and have a chat and perhaps chuck the person out. I feel a nunber of Hearts fans would love that system to be in place. And it is so open for abuse. Sad state of affairs. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 I work with someone who is a steward for Arsenal. They have introduced a new system for reporting abuse. Be afraid, be very afraid. I hope it never catches on up here. They have a dedicated number you can text if you find any fans shouting 'offensive' things. You just text the seat and area they are in, what they are wearing and what the 'offense' was. You do this by putting a prefix on hte message, for example: homo - section 3 seat 29 red jacket. That would mean there was a homophobic remark made by that person. The control office then come down and have a chat and perhaps chuck the person out. I feel a nunber of Hearts fans would love that system to be in place. And it is so open for abuse. Sad state of affairs. IMO. Hearts already have that I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1874M Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Absolutely yes. I don't care if it was a Nazi salute or a Red Hand. Both of them are vile and have no place at Tynecastle. Have you complained about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller Jambo 60 Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Have you complained about it? Lets all sit down and shut up like P1 kids this PC shat is a joke:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Hearts already have that I think. Really ? This country is bad enough with NuLabour's ridiculous 'Big Brother' ideas. Sneaky little texts against people sounds far too like Communist Russia for me. ( Not that they had mobile phones back then but you know what I mean !!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 BTW. If HMFC have not ALREADY received 73 complaints about this then people need to get a grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chat Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 It wasn't a Nazi salute. The boy did what Steven Pressley did to us at the end of every big game we won. He pumped his chest with a clenched fist. Does that make Steven Pressley a Nazi too ? Honestly, what a load of sheeite. There are people who just go around looking to be offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egor Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 see thats the problem, ignorance is bliss and there are great many who simply need to immerse themselves in an historical appreciation of religious and political symbolism to overcome their ignorance. It's solvable but takes a wee bit of intellect so some of the pro salute types will struggle with this so i shall explain it in simplistic terms using easy words... May i suggest that there is no room for lunkheads who propose this argument, some think it is okay to do it cos it is a throwback to "the red hand". The whole notion of "Ulster" as a geographical entity is outmoded archaic and symbolizes sectarianism. In realist terms what has "ulster" to do with Hearts? Is there a solid connection that is based on anything other than sectarianism? Moreover, the notion of it being done cos someone has "crossed" themselves s most absurd and really identifies the main issues. May i point out to the Uberjambo's that see nowt wrong that we live in a Christian society where suprise suprise, people practice a particular flavour of religion, in this case Catholicism, which for the record I am. Now, crossing ones self is not illegal, neither is it considered offensive to the majority. It does seem to rattle the minorities cages though. A Nazi salute or the alternative definition, being an endorsement of Ulster is a "political" gesture not an acceptable "political" gesture that the majority are comfortable with Shame them, expose them, tie them naked to a synagogue or a catholic church and let's see how they fair from there... good luck with it though, keep flying that flag and we'll all be condemned to ignorance. I despair sometimes, I really do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Such a lack of faith in HMFC !!! They have actually done something about it already, they closed section N1 !!! Fair enough bud but closing it imo was a mistake as not everyone in there should have been tarred with the same brush, and that was THE part of the ground you could rely on to get the atmosphere going. Closing N1 was a terrible decision and there are plenty of other sections in the ground that arseholes sit in that spout their pish. I reported the same guy 3 times last season to the club and hee haw was done about it, the same guy is still sitting in the same seat now and spouting the same nonsense, I gave up trying to do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 see thats the problem, ignorance is bliss and there are great many who simply need to immerse themselves in an historical appreciation of religious and political symbolism to overcome their ignorance. It's solvable but takes a wee bit of intellect so some of the pro salute types will struggle with this so i shall explain it in simplistic terms using easy words... May i suggest that there is no room for lunkheads who propose this argument, some think it is okay to do it cos it is a throwback to "the red hand". The whole notion of "Ulster" as a geographical entity is outmoded archaic and symbolizes sectarianism. In realist terms what has "ulster" to do with Hearts? Is there a solid connection that is based on anything other than sectarianism? Moreover, the notion of it being done cos someone has "crossed" themselves s most absurd and really identifies the main issues. May i point out to the Uberjambo's that see nowt wrong that we live in a Christian society where suprise suprise, people practice a particular flavour of religion, in this case Catholicism, which for the record I am. Now, crossing ones self is not illegal, neither is it considered offensive to the majority. It does seem to rattle the minorities cages though. A Nazi salute or the alternative definition, being an endorsement of Ulster is a "political" gesture not an acceptable "political" gesture that the majority are comfortable with Shame them, expose them, tie them naked to a synagogue or a catholic church and let's see how they fair from there... good luck with it though, keep flying that flag and we'll all be condemned to ignorance. I despair sometimes, I really do... Aye. That sounds like a reasonable response to some silly wee lad being an idiot at a football game. I despair sometimes, I really do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Fair enough bud but closing it imo was a mistake as not everyone in there should have been tarred with the same brush, and that was THE part of the ground you could rely on to get the atmosphere going. Closing N1 was a terrible decision and there are plenty of other sections in the ground that arseholes sit in that spout their pish. I reported the same guy 3 times last season to the club and hee haw was done about it, the same guy is still sitting in the same seat now and spouting the same nonsense, I gave up trying to do anything about it. Closing section N was a shocker yes. And it cost me a pretty penny as I got turfed out to lower G !!! As for the bloke that sits next to you just try to ignore it. I know easier said than done but it is a football game and people do shout stuff that they probably don't really mean. I don't let it bother me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starcatcher Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Absolutely yes. I don't care if it was a Nazi salute or a Red Hand. Both of them are vile and have no place at Tynecastle. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Absolutely, yes. As for the argument about not being able to 'prove' what it was...that's completely irrelevant. If it is seen to be a Nazi salute by those who saw it, then it is. Just look at Breach of the Peace...if it causes fear and alarm, then it's unlawful. Anyway, there's really no mistaking it. And he isn't a 'daft wee laddie'...he's old enough to know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Absolutely, yes. As for the argument about not being able to 'prove' what it was...that's completely irrelevant. If it is seen to be a Nazi salute by those who saw it, then it is. Just look at Breach of the Peace...if it causes fear and alarm, then it's unlawful. Anyway, there's really no mistaking it. And he isn't a 'daft wee laddie'...he's old enough to know better. Where in section g? I sit in g but did not see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egor Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 still think that whether or not it was a raised red hand or a clenched fist doesnot really hold water for me. this is a problem within an element of our support and anyone, be it a silly wee laddie or not should be punished accordingly After all, its probably his parents etc that have made him like that so they should be punished too. HE, the wee laddie, doesnae know any better, bless his wee cotton union jack socks an all... support your team not some quasi political movement that is dubious COPPERHEID mare likes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 Absolutely, yes. As for the argument about not being able to 'prove' what it was...that's completely irrelevant. If it is seen to be a Nazi salute by those who saw it, then it is. Just look at Breach of the Peace...if it causes fear and alarm, then it's unlawful. Anyway, there's really no mistaking it. And he isn't a 'daft wee laddie'...he's old enough to know better. I hope you never sit on a jury. Good to see that all that matters if is someone get offended.... Then the bother of actually having to PROVE that something wrong was done can be thrown out of the window. Fantastic. Why haven't the also this genius plan................. I do find it amazing that so many people who are so easily offended are also incredibly ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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