Dr. Sheldon Cooper Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 People seem to be forgetting that Zaliukas has actually played pretty well recently, Sunday included. He is one-half of one of the best centre-back partnerships in the league and is playing in a defence that hasn't conceded that many goals this season. Yes, he may lose concentration occasionally during a game, but if he didn't then he would be nowhere near Hearts. He has formed a good partnership with Webster this season and they are becoming more comfortable playing alongside each other. If we were to lose him, who fills in at centre half? McGowan's best position is at full back in my eyes, although he may benefit from partnering Webster. Either way, Zal and Webster is the best partnership we have and we don't have enough defensive options to drop players at will, we're not good enough either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckauskas Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Actually Eck I think you have a point that people do look for opportunities to blame Zal for anything from a bad passback to mess of the Eurozone. You probably know from some of our previous "discussions" that shall we say, I am not a big fan of Zal but...... I often think that there is a lot of good there, you can watch him for say a good half hour where he hardly puts a foot wrong and it is easy to think that the guy is quality and for that half hour he is - he gives you a glimpse of what it could be. It is just that now over a long period of time the lapses negate the good bits as they are often costly and the frequency of the lapse is the problem and I doubt whether it will improve now. You are also right when you imply in another post that the options available right now are no better - I have said before and still do think that if we did get another decent central defender to play alongside Webster that Zal would be worth another shot at defensive mid. He can play a bit, carries the ball well and won't get the time to ponder so much which is mainly when he lapses. There you go - just pointing out that I am not one of the guys who slag him just for the sake of it - he's still a liability in his present role though !! I have no problem with people criticisng players for making mistakes when it's genuinely deserved, the problem is the constant blame layed at Zals feet. After every poor result, and I do mean EVERY bad result, there is a thread criticisng Zal and blaming him for the defeat. Then there are certain posters who delight in these instances, because it's a chance for them to proclaim how right they think are. If a Hearts player costs Hearts a goal, I'm genuinely disappointed. I'm not, however, going to jump up and down and shout "SEE? I TOLD YOU SO!" like some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchterjambo Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I have no problem with people criticisng players for making mistakes when it's genuinely deserved, the problem is the constant blame layed at Zals feet. After every poor result, and I do mean EVERY bad result, there is a thread criticisng Zal and blaming him for the defeat. Then there are certain posters who delight in these instances, because it's a chance for them to proclaim how right they think are. If a Hearts player costs Hearts a goal, I'm genuinely disappointed. I'm not, however, going to jump up and down and shout "SEE? I TOLD YOU SO!" like some. No problem with any of that - I don't take pleasure in seeing any Hearts players make costly mistakes. In honesty I wished we had a more solid character at the back but we don't and he gets my support during games and yes sometimes a bit of stick afterwards too but only when I believe it is warranted , not for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveyhmfc Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Let's make this simple. Just get rid of Zal in the Summer. He clearly hasn't learned his lesson and continues to make costly mistakes. I am afraid to say that he will never change. However, if and when we "get rid", I think that we shall neeed to go out and get another centre-back and hopefully, one that is more reliable. In other words, just defend and cut out all the Franz Beckenbauer crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templeton'sUnderpants Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Let's make this simple. Just get rid of Zal in the Summer. He clearly hasn't learned his lesson and continues to make costly mistakes. I am afraid to say that he will never change. However, if and when we "get rid", I think that we shall neeed to go out and get another centre-back and hopefully, one that is more reliable. In other words, just defend and cut out all the Franz Beckenbauer crap. Lets pretend that rather than just having no money we have limited funds. Who's your realistic replacement that is better than Zaliukas? The other thing I would add for the people griping about Zali being captain it was JJ who made him captain not one of the usual 'puppets' that take the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Let's make this simple. Just get rid of Zal in the Summer. He clearly hasn't learned his lesson and continues to make costly mistakes. I am afraid to say that he will never change. However, if and when we "get rid", I think that we shall neeed to go out and get another centre-back and hopefully, one that is more reliable. In other words, just defend and cut out all the Franz Beckenbauer crap. I would imagine that will happen anyway. If decisions are made on the basis of just the wage bill, for example, without taking ability into account, irrespective of which player is under discussion, then Marius Zaliukas is towards the top end of the earnings table (I don't think he is the highest, there is one other I believe earning more who we tried to come to some sort of arrangement with by all accounts but his preferred choice was to see out his contract) and if costs/savings is the determining factor one has to assume he will depart during the Summer. I could potentially see Ryan McGowan moving position to take over the central defensive position, but that is just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 sheridan was on websters blind side,zal was looking right at him and chose to step up instead of tracking sheridans run. turned out to be the wrong decision again,one of a long line of faux pas by your man and no i wouldn't care to run through them. why? because your so blinkered about the bigman you'll never see reason.................. Firstly, if he was on his blind side, what was he watching? The crowd? A low-flying aircraft? Surely he should have been watching the game and been aware of what was around him. That minor technicality aside, I have no problem with my ability to recognise a player having a good game and one who is not. Can you say the same of yourself? When was the last time you complemented him on here for having a good game. As for not being bothered to want to list his game-losing or "costing us a goal" moments, you join a small but noisy band of like-minded posters who have repeatedly failed to respond to such a request. If your claims are correct, there must be well over a hundred to choose from so picking out even a couple of dozen for starters shouldn't over-stretch the most limited of memories. For the record, he did not have a good game last night but he was far from alone. To read this thread through, it would seem he was the architect of our defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmackenzie14 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 he has cost us 22 league goals this season lol . never ever been a fan of him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Really ? Nothing more certain after another Zal mistake someone rush's home to start a Zal deflector thread. Never mind we will lose him to the EPL soon as he is world class defender. :-)))) You're right he probably would get a game for the majority of teams in the Estonian Premier League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clerry Jambo Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I would think the reason he is captain is to boost his resale value, he certainly has limited leadership qualities. Zal couldnae lead me for a pish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templeton'sUnderpants Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hmmmmm, poor "comeback," that aside, you never answered my question "I don't think he will go and will see out the remainder of his contract at Hearts. If we were to get this ?500k you speak of, who would he go to and what level do you think he could play at?" You're really struggling to keep up. I would bow out gracefully if I were you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templeton'sUnderpants Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 You really do spraff some shite. Vlad gave Zali a contract as Vlad see's him as a sellable asset. Can you tell me who else Vlad has brought in and has sold on for big money? Hearts will be fine in the end though as zalis sale will pay of the debt. Please, oh wise one, the man who appears to have the similar eye for a player of those managing a football club do, tell me what kind of money we can expect should we sell Zali? What clubs would come in for him and what level do you think he could play at? Now you're just being silly. We'd be lucky to get ?500k for him right now. Its called sarcasm. I don't think he will go and will see out the remainder of his contract at Hearts. If we were to get this ?500k you speak of, who would he go to and what level do you think he could play at? Was it sarcasm? I should have responded with one in kind then "Hearts will be fine in the end though as zalis sale will pay of the debt" Not being funny mate, but if you didnt detect sarcasm there.....words fail me. Are you sure that was sarcasm? I honestly couldn't tell. Urm, just have a wee read through this exchange again pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templeton'sUnderpants Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I have and your point? Oh right, were to believe that Eck was taking the piss with his ?500k valuation. If the player is on an estimated ?10k a week and we wont even recover ?500k for him, considering were ball deep in debt, you and Eck see no problem defending this clown. If Eck was being sarcastic, then I want to know what he thinks we would get for him. A club captain who makes mistake after mistake, takes home a small fortune, due to him being classed as a sellable asset, yet even the people who defend him dont think we could get ?500k for him, aye thats right "pal" the jokes on me. FFS! Zaliukas is not on 10k a week. Name several of these mistakes, he has played over 150 league games for Hearts, if the shops a goal every other game is to be believed it should not be difficult for anyone to name a dozen of these mistakes, however all we get is humming and hawing. The fact of the matter is this thread was made due to the perception that Zaliukas was at fault for the third goal. This assumption is totally ignoring the hospital ball from Webster, the lack of support from Grainger and the minute of play after this where at least 2 tackles were missed and the entire defence seemed to lose their mind and all rush to the ball in the box. When this is pointed out people again revert back to the, it was just this game its every other game argument without offering the slightest shred of evidence. Zaliukas is a solid defender for the most part, he was nowhere near the worst player on the park against Celtic though he was poor that honour for me goes to Hamill. I usually hate the whole accusations of people just blaming it on the liffs but I honestly do not see any other argument for the constant making Zaliukas a scapegoat other than some belief he is one of Vlads favourites, this is in total contrast to his freezing out by Vlad over contract negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Juan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Zaliukas is not on 10k a week. Name several of these mistakes We could just start by looking at the last two games and then take it from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templeton'sUnderpants Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 We could just start by looking at the last two games and then take it from there. I have highlighted my views on Zal's 'mistake' against Celtic, admittedly I have not seen the St Johnstone game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Juan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I have highlighted my views on Zal's 'mistake' against Celtic, admittedly I have not seen the St Johnstone game. His performance in the St Johnstone game actually summed up Zal pretty well tbh. The first half he absolutely strolled it, looked composed and passed the ball well from the back. The second half he reverted to "kamikaze Zal" where he looked at times like he was completely lost out there and looked like he had never played at centre-half in his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahgrassyshoes Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 We could just start by looking at the last two games and then take it from there. imo, the only reason Zal stepped up is because we got caught out with a poor touch from Taouil then a cracking ball from Sandaza. Zal would be aware that neither him nor Webster were catching Sheridan and stepped up more in hope than expectation. We don't actually have to blame someone for every goal, it can just be a decent goal by the opposition. In the case of the 3rd against Celtic, I think Webster was wrong to play the ball as Zal wasn't really in a position to receive it. I though Zal was wrong in not knowing what was about him before trying to charge up field. And I thought MacDonald and Webster were wrong to be beyond/at the front post respectively. A collection of errors cost that 3rd goal, not just the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Juan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 imo, the only reason Zal stepped up is because we got caught out with a poor touch from Taouil then a cracking ball from Sandaza. Zal would be aware that neither him nor Webster were catching Sheridan and stepped up more in hope than expectation. We don't actually have to blame someone for every goal, it can just be a decent goal by the opposition. In the case of the 3rd against Celtic, I think Webster was wrong to play the ball as Zal wasn't really in a position to receive it. I though Zal was wrong in not knowing what was about him before trying to charge up field. And I thought MacDonald and Webster were wrong to be beyond/at the front post respectively. A collection of errors cost that 3rd goal, not just the one. Sorry, I should have clarified, I wasn't just talking about the goal St Johnstone scored, more his performance in the 2nd half in general. There were other occasions when he had clearly lost his concentration. When Zal goes into that mode, anything is likely to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templeton'sUnderpants Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Zali is on very close to ?10k a week. You tell me what you think he's on? Three mistakes from zali, Own goal against hibs, last man sending off against hibs and the misplaced pass againts Celtic last season. I have given you a quick and obvious three that you will know. Zaki is half decent against the "lesser" sides in the league, a decent striker manages to roll him time after time though. His concentration is very poor and he takes too many risk's with his passing in and around the box. Good player in the air with the ball coming straight onto him, anything else and its 50p head time. Corners, when were attacking, he puts the ball wide far more than he should ( so does webby to be fair). Zali signed a new deal and was given a three year contract, like every player Vlad decides to sign, this is done with a view to making money. You appear to accept we wont make any money on him and this sits okay with you? He wont get a big move, certainly not in this country. I have no axe to grind with any Hearts player, I am a jambo, I want them all to be Pele, as its only us, the supporters, who will benefit. I watch Hearts week in week out and the amount Zali just manages to get away with is frightening, people like yourself and Eck will point to stats in the games he's played as a marker of his pedigree, yet when he's at fault its the "we lost as a team, others were just as bad." surely the same logic must be reversed when we keep a clean sheet? I dont rate the guy and never have, I wish he was better but he aint. Even if he was on ?5k a week its too much for a player of his ability. You will ask, who should we get in his place? I would look to play McGowan beside webster and see how that partnership pans out. I wouldn't imagine he is on close to that, I would think he's on 4-5k. I may be wrong but so may you I don't think we can say what he is on with any certainty. Whether the Hibs one was a sending off is a whole other debate, silly tackle in the least though I shall grant you. I find it hard to hold own goals like that against anyone. With regard to taking to many risks with his passing I'm sure everyone can agree that this is due to the way Sergio wants the team to play, it's no use asking a player who simply cannot do it to start building from the back like that. I don't imagine we will make a whole lot for him, I could see someone paying 200k or so for him, however my main concern is rarely whether a player can make money for us by being sold. I don't think there is a better center half outside the old firm with the exception of Webster so I have no issue with him being on a half decent contract. you're mistaken, if it's clear that one player has had a mare I will happily admit that but to highlight poor performances in that match seems pointless when not a single player on the park looked like they belonged there in my opinion. I like McGowan but i would ask if that is your thinking who would you then have at right back? Hamill is certainly a worse player than Zali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahgrassyshoes Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Sorry, I should have clarified, I wasn't just talking about the goal St Johnstone scored, more his performance in the 2nd half in general. There were other occasions when he had clearly lost his concentration. When Zal goes into that mode, anything is likely to happen. The thing with that is, he look more likely to create something for us in the first half, and unfortunately that is just one of the symptoms of following a team in a poor league. Personally, I like Zal, and there is a place of him in my team, but I can also understand folks frustrations with him. For me though, he is a classic example of kickback, half say utter shite half say borderline amazing and the truth is he's just bang in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I would like the club to replace Barr and Zaliukas with an out and out stopper to play beside Webster who could revert to his best position as left sided centre half. I don't think that either will attract any real interest though so will 'work their tickets' and leave at the end of their contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckauskas Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Let's be clear, I was being sarcastic while addressing your sarcasm. Zaliukas, for being a good SPL centre half and a current international would be worth around ?500k in times when we're not skint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramrod Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Firstly, if he was on his blind side, what was he watching? The crowd? A low-flying aircraft? Surely he should have been watching the game and been aware of what was around him. That minor technicality aside, I have no problem with my ability to recognise a player having a good game and one who is not. Can you say the same of yourself? When was the last time you complemented him on here for having a good game. As for not being bothered to want to list his game-losing or "costing us a goal" moments, you join a small but noisy band of like-minded posters who have repeatedly failed to respond to such a request. If your claims are correct, there must be well over a hundred to choose from so picking out even a couple of dozen for starters shouldn't over-stretch the most limited of memories. For the record, he did not have a good game last night but he was far from alone. To read this thread through, it would seem he was the architect of our defeat. no no no, why dont you open your eyes? i've stated on here numerous times before that the bigman is capable of having a very good game and can be a decent player quite regularly................ what he cant seem to do is iron out the horrendous mistakes and decision making that frequently blight his game.its just in his make up his concentration levels are shockingly bad,thats just fact................. he will always cost us goals because of the nature of his play,how you fail to notice this is quite beyond me,in saying that the first line of your post says it all really,totally and utterly clueless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 no no no, why dont you open your eyes? i've stated on here numerous times before that the bigman is capable of having a very good game and can be a decent player quite regularly................ what he cant seem to do is iron out the horrendous mistakes and decision making that frequently blight his game.its just in his make up his concentration levels are shockingly bad,thats just fact................. he will always cost us goals because of the nature of his play,how you fail to notice this is quite beyond me,in saying that the first line of your post says it all really,totally and utterly clueless Again, you use "frequently" and "always" but seem utterly incapable of offering the bare minimum of evidence to support your assertion. You seem to be quite irrational in this respect so I give up. The saying tells us never to argue with idiots as they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramrod Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Again, you use "frequently" and "always" but seem utterly incapable of offering the bare minimum of evidence to support your assertion. You seem to be quite irrational in this respect so I give up. The saying tells us never to argue with idiots as they will drag :geek:you down to their level and then beat you with experience haha you've been waiting for me all day,you have, be honest now you've just killed our duel with your last line,couldn't have put it better myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 haha you've been waiting for me all day,you have, be honest now you've just killed our duel with your last line,couldn't have put it better myself! Nope, sorry to disappoint you but not long in and phone reception was a bit poor in deepest Stirlingshire. And, I got the quote in first so a bit smug not not so much that I will resort to an emoticon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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