wavydavy Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I take it Novikovas is only with us on loan then? Does anyone think he should get another try before getting rid or is he not up to it? NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johanes de Silentio Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 as for Macdonald -- asking for guarantees before he will sign He's not doing that, is he? Oh, Jamie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyblack'sshot Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 No doubt he will be told to find another. No doubt either that he won't even think about it if he's being paid. He is getting in excess of ?5k a week and won't get near that anywhere else. In his dreams he's getting over ?5K! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 The only out of contract player I really care about losing is Kello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 He's not doing that, is he? Oh, Jamie! http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hearts/hearts_keeper_demands_guarantees_as_he_negotiates_new_deal_1_1983424 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 All the higher earners will be punted or let go asap, look out for Barr playing regularly though as this process takes effect. Couldn't honestly give a flying duck about losing any of the players except Kello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Senior players to keep - Kello, Stevenson, Eggert, Templeton, Driver. All the rest can bolt and then be replaced by players from the under 19s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hearts/hearts_keeper_demands_guarantees_as_he_negotiates_new_deal_1_1983424 John Murray, our Youth Academy Director, is now negotiating new contracts with first team players ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johanes de Silentio Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/football/hearts/hearts_keeper_demands_guarantees_as_he_negotiates_new_deal_1_1983424 Cheers! Actually, I can see Jamie's point if he's concerned about instability and not getting paid, but if he's pissed of at being second choice to Kello, he needs to get real about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 John Murray, our Youth Academy Director, is now negotiating new contracts with first team players ???? Yes and i believe he also discussed and arranged the loan deal arrangements for the likes of Clum, Prychynenko, Barr and the 3 U19's away to Raith last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Jonsson turned down our offer last month so he looks a certainty to leave.Kickback will have to get a new overrated favourite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 All the higher earners will be punted or let go asap, look out for Barr playing regularly though as this process takes effect. Couldn't honestly give a flying duck about losing any of the players except Kello. I think a loan deal for Barr in January is probably on the cards if terms get sorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Yes and i believe he also discussed and arranged the loan deal arrangements for the likes of Clum, Prychynenko, Barr and the 3 U19's away to Raith last week. Sounds to me we now have a Director of Football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Sounds to me we now have a Director of Football. Makes sense if the majority of future recruitment is to come through the Academy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Jamie MacDonald is shite, IMO. I wouldn't mind it if he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Yes and i believe he also discussed and arranged the loan deal arrangements for the likes of Clum, Prychynenko, Barr and the 3 U19's away to Raith last week. Interesting, I wonder if Hearts are going to change his role, to him becoming more our director of football, he apparently gets on well with Romanov, he does most of the job already, would make sense that if we are to change our make up of the team to be one that is more suited to youngsters he would be the person to help co-ordinate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Makes sense if the majority of future recruitment is to come through the Academy. It does indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 It does indeed. This might be the start of our football side being run properly. It has been something I have said before we need a proper director of football where we have a cohesive plan for the long term. If he can get the first team to play the style of football that the under 19s and the way the youngsters are brought up I think Hearts fans would be happy with that style. It may also raise questions about Paulo Sergio's tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Jamie MacDonald is shite, IMO. I wouldn't mind it if he left. Get used to it, that's the standard of player we're going to have to look forward to watching in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartyfaeclery Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 In his dreams he's getting over ?5K! his dreams came true then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertonian_II Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 The only out of contract player I really care about losing is Kello. ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyblack'sshot Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 his dreams came true then Not a chance. First, Hearts announced a couple of years ago they had brought in a wage cap for all new signings and I think that was 4K (which only top earners would get) and they would top that up with good bonuses. That's why Aguiar left - he didn't want to take a 50% pay cut. Second, it's Darren Barr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 This might be the start of our football side being run properly. It has been something I have said before we need a proper director of football where we have a cohesive plan for the long term. If he can get the first team to play the style of football that the under 19s and the way the youngsters are brought up I think Hearts fans would be happy with that style. It may also raise questions about Paulo Sergio's tenure. I was a big critic of John Murray several years ago due the amount of lads from NI we had kicking about the academy. Thankfully he seems to have knocked that on the head and there is no doubt the youth teams are looking pretty good. I wonder how much input JM will get when we we replace Sergio at some point in the next 6 months or so ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I was a big critic of John Murray several years ago due the amount of lads from NI we had kicking about the academy. Thankfully he seems to have knocked that on the head and there is no doubt the youth teams are looking pretty good. I wonder how much input JM will get when we we replace Sergio at some point in the next 6 months or so ? Yeah its been a few years since we last had a Northern Irish player (thats not to say that we shouldn't go for talented Northern Irish players.) From what I have read on how to make the director of football role work in British football, he has to be the one to select the candidates (obviously the board will get the final say on which candidate is chosen as manager.) Otherwise the relationship between DoF and coach/manager wont work. Though if we go with one of the up and coming ex-Hearts player managers (Pressley, Cameron, Robbo or McGlynn) then that would work as he has been at Tynecastle when they all have been at Tynecastle (above that McGlynn work under him and Pressley was on the committee for HYDC until he left and was involved a lot with the youth set-up.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I don't see the need for a director of football at this moment in time. It's not an established role in Britain and you couldn't point out one high profile effort where it has succeeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I don't see the need for a director of football at this moment in time. It's not an established role in Britain and you couldn't point out one high profile effort where it has succeeded. Maybe not right now but depending on who we see as our next coach/manager then a DOF may be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Maybe not right now but depending on who we see as our next coach/manager then a DOF may be needed. Needed for what? No other club in Scotland or England need a director of football so I don't see the point in adding another salary to the wage bill that we can't afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwaysinourshadows Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Jonsson turned down our offer last month so he looks a certainty to leave.Kickback will have to get a new overrated favourite. Jonsson never turned down a contract, his ex agent was talking p*** to the press http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20110928/eggert-clarifies-situation_2241384_2466265 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Needed for what? No other club in Scotland or England need a director of football so I don't see the point in adding another salary to the wage bill that we can't afford. If we bring in an inexperienced coach who has little background in dealing with contracts then we'd need somebody who does. Also..... What other salary ? John Murray is already being paid by Hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 If we bring in an inexperienced coach who has little background in dealing with contracts then we'd need somebody who does. Also..... What other salary ? John Murray is already being paid by Hearts. Still don't buy it tbh. What happens at other clubs who appoint inexperienced coaches/managers? They just learn to do it, all part of the job. How much experience does John Murray have of negotiating first team contracts? And it's just been decided on this thread that he is the new director of football as far as I can see so I'll wait for confirmation. There really is no need for a DoF. If it becomes an established position in British football then fair enough but until then no. This copying Barcelona obsession on here does my head in (not necessarily you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Still don't buy it tbh. What happens at other clubs who appoint inexperienced coaches/managers? They just learn to do it, all part of the job. How much experience does John Murray have of negotiating first team contracts? And it's just been decided on this thread that he is the new director of football as far as I can see so I'll wait for confirmation. There really is no need for a DoF. If it becomes an established position in British football then fair enough but until then no. This copying Barcelona obsession on here does my head in (not necessarily you). It hasn't been decided...it was just a bit of speculation. It seems odd he would be negotiating contract with first team players through. Btw.. We've had 4 other guys in this role since VR took over the club. It's a position that VR seems to like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Needed for what? No other club in Scotland or England need a director of football so I don't see the point in adding another salary to the wage bill that we can't afford. Wrong on the second part. It may surprise you but in the Premiership alone three clubs have Director of Football Roles, Liverpool (who appointed one when Henry took over), Stoke (who have had one since 1999) and Norwich (though there one has the title Head of Football Operations.) I agree that is still a small number but I do think within 5 years it will become more normal due to the rate the managers get sacked in British football. In Scotland after a quick look at Falkirk they have Alex Smith as a "technical director" which is a director of football role but more in terms of providing guidance and expertise. Jim Leishman is the director of Football at Dunfermline. And Willie Millar stood down recently as DoF of Aberden. In the Championship, Reading, Peterborough both have director of football. If it was that we increased John Murray's job remit to be a Director of Football it would not be another wage bill to add. But even if we did add it, to bring a long term vision and implementing it despite whatever performance our future managers may have, may actually be more cost effective for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Wrong on the second part. It may surprise you but in the Premiership alone three clubs have Director of Football Roles, Liverpool (who appointed one when Henry took over), Stoke (who have had one since 1999) and Norwich (though there one has the title Head of Football Operations.) I agree that is still a small number but I do think within 5 years it will become more normal due to the rate the managers get sacked in British football. In Scotland after a quick look at Falkirk they have Alex Smith as a "technical director" which is a director of football role but more in terms of providing guidance and expertise. Jim Leishman is the director of Football at Dunfermline. And Willie Millar stood down recently as DoF of Aberden. In the Championship, Reading, Peterborough both have director of football. If it was that we increased John Murray's job remit to be a Director of Football it would not be another wage bill to add. But even if we did add it, to bring a long term vision and implementing it despite whatever performance our future managers may have, may actually be more cost effective for us. I'm sure I read somewhere that Rangers were sniffing around JM. Maybe Vlad has beefed up his role and salary to ward off any move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Most managers don't negotiate the nitty gritty of contracts anymore - it's usually a club director or finance/treasurer type that does that. I wouldn't assign any grand sweeping vision to it it is simply John Murray is the most experienced at the club of doing this and as others have said isn't an extra wage just extra duties. Depends on who owns the club in future whether this might change or stay the same but for now if we are to run a much tighter ship then people like David Southern & John Murray will probably have to wear a number of different hats to ensure everything gets done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Wrong on the second part. It may surprise you but in the Premiership alone three clubs have Director of Football Roles, Liverpool (who appointed one when Henry took over), Stoke (who have had one since 1999) and Norwich (though there one has the title Head of Football Operations.) I agree that is still a small number but I do think within 5 years it will become more normal due to the rate the managers get sacked in British football. In Scotland after a quick look at Falkirk they have Alex Smith as a "technical director" which is a director of football role but more in terms of providing guidance and expertise. Jim Leishman is the director of Football at Dunfermline. And Willie Millar stood down recently as DoF of Aberden. In the Championship, Reading, Peterborough both have director of football. If it was that we increased John Murray's job remit to be a Director of Football it would not be another wage bill to add. But even if we did add it, to bring a long term vision and implementing it despite whatever performance our future managers may have, may actually be more cost effective for us. I wasn't aware those English clubs had DoF but my point still stands, a minority of clubs have them and you could only really use the example of Stoke, and perhaps Norwich at a push, as a club that appear to have benefited from the position. What sort of person occupy the roles of these clubs? Looking at the Scottish clubs, it's individuals held in high esteem at their respective clubs ... not a youth coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Most managers don't negotiate the nitty gritty of contracts anymore - it's usually a club director or finance/treasurer type that does that. I wouldn't assign any grand sweeping vision to it it is simply John Murray is the most experienced at the club of doing this and as others have said isn't an extra wage just extra duties. Depends on who owns the club in future whether this might change or stay the same but for now if we are to run a much tighter ship then people like David Southern & John Murray will probably have to wear a number of different hats to ensure everything gets done. Think this is probably more realistic than saying JM has been appointed DoF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 John Murray isn't a youth coach AP and hasn't been a coach for a very long time - he was chief scout and youth scout when Jefferies brought him from Falkirk back in the nineties and since the Academy opened he's been Academy Director. I think for now at least regards work that is done in Edinburgh the two local 'directors' David Southern & John Murray are essentially now in charge of the day to day running of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Aye, couldn't remember his official title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I wasn't aware those English clubs had DoF but my point still stands, a minority of clubs have them and you could only really use the example of Stoke, and perhaps Norwich at a push, as a club that appear to have benefited from the position. What sort of person occupy the roles of these clubs? Looking at the Scottish clubs, it's individuals held in high esteem at their respective clubs ... not a youth coach. Its usually someone who can handle a more adminstrative role then a coaching role. Something John Murrays being doing as head of the academy, which seems to be the position which is most promoted to a director of football (Frank Arnsen who was at Chelsea is an example of that, Reading's Nich Hammond is another who was a Director of Youth Development then in 2003 promoted to Director of Football and has been in the role since.) As I say it is still a relatively new role in British football and one that has been treated mistrust and sadly seems to be noticed most when it goes wrong. Best example would be Newcastle when Ashley brought in Wise. Though the reason that failed is because Wise was brought in after Keegan was brought in (hence its best to create the role of Director of Football when you are between managers.) At Tottenham, they had Damien Comolli (now at Liverpool) he was the man responsable for bringing in a number of players who have since gone on to be big signings such as Gareth Bale, Berbatov and Luka Modric, as well as some youngsters who may have not stood out at Spurs but have shined at other clubs such as Kevin-Prince Boateng and Abel Taarabtt. Point being he was able to scour for talent regardless of who the manager was and add that quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Its usually someone who can handle a more adminstrative role then a coaching role. Something John Murrays being doing as head of the academy, which seems to be the position which is most promoted to a director of football (Frank Arnsen who was at Chelsea is an example of that, Reading's Nich Hammond is another who was a Director of Youth Development then in 2003 promoted to Director of Football and has been in the role since.) As I say it is still a relatively new role in British football and one that has been treated mistrust and sadly seems to be noticed most when it goes wrong. Best example would be Newcastle when Ashley brought in Wise. Though the reason that failed is because Wise was brought in after Keegan was brought in (hence its best to create the role of Director of Football when you are between managers.) At Tottenham, they had Damien Comolli (now at Liverpool) he was the man responsable for bringing in a number of players who have since gone on to be big signings such as Gareth Bale, Berbatov and Luka Modric, as well as some youngsters who may have not stood out at Spurs but have shined at other clubs such as Kevin-Prince Boateng and Abel Taarabtt. Point being he was able to scour for talent regardless of who the manager was and add that quality. I see why it could be required at huge clubs like Chelsea and Spurs where they are trying to bring in new players constantly but those days are over for us. I'm more interesting in looking at how clubs similar to us have got on when using a DoF, what do you know about Aberdeens attempt at it? From the little I know it looks like it was a waste of time. We've had a few half-arsed goes ourself and it's been a farce. This whole 'create a long term vision' thing sounds nice on paper and all that but the reality of our situation is potentially the next decade is going to be very grim indeed and the number one priority will be securing the clubs future rather than worrying about our footballing ethos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 JiG you are over complicating this - 25 years ago Alex MacDonald told Wallace Mercer who he'd like to sign or keep and WM did the rest - the whole club was run with a handful of people in charge most of whom multi-tasked. Scottish Fitba was run that way for more than a century. Dundee Utd had George Fox & Jim Maclean who did almost everything that needed doing at that club from the ticket office to running the club with Walter Smith to help JMcL train the players and the reserves and youths - they really did everything with a small handful of people - very successfully! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonedinoz Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I really don't think we will have much say in who can stay - if we can offload anybody I think they will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I wasn't aware those English clubs had DoF but my point still stands, a minority of clubs have them and you could only really use the example of Stoke, and perhaps Norwich at a push, as a club that appear to have benefited from the position. What sort of person occupy the roles of these clubs? Looking at the Scottish clubs, it's individuals held in high esteem at their respective clubs ... not a youth coach. Usually someone who has either been a manager long-term and has no desire to go back into it (John Rudge at Stoke) or someone who has no intention of being a manager (Comolli at Liverpool). Personally I don't think it is a role you can just assume because there is nobody else doing it, which appears to be the case here, but i'll give JM the benefit of the doubt and wish him well. And in the end, all squad movements at Hearts for the foreseeable will be based purely on finance so the DoF can have very little influence anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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