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would you accept 3rd/4th in the league next year as a target?


Frankenstein Jambo.

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Frankenstein Jambo.

i don't think we have the money nor the stability to ever really challenge smelltick or rankgers next year. 3rd place must be the priority for next season.

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Third - and with it a place in the Yoofa Cup - is the minimum that's acceptable. Anything else will be a failure. :mad:

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Ray Winstone

The quicker fans start lowering their expectations again the better.

 

With the regime that is in place atm it shows the 2nd place finish to be a one off and expectations should be lowered to what they were pre - Romanov.

 

We should be aiming for 3rd place with decent cup runs, but next year I would not even see 4th spot as a failure.

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shaun.lawson
i don't think we have the money nor the stability to ever really challenge smelltick or rankgers next year. 3rd place must be the priority for next season.

 

I've a hunch that 3rd will end up between us and Dundee United next season.

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shaun.lawson
Third, yes. Fourth gives us the same as 7th; i.e. no tangiable reward.

 

Not true, from next season onwards.

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Bindy Badgy
Third, yes. Fourth gives us the same as 7th; i.e. no tangiable reward.

 

If, and it's a big if, the SFA get themselves sorted out 4th will be enough for the Uefa Cup.

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davemclaren

Third should always be our target but, given our starting point, I'd personally accept a good fourth. :cool:

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If there was a classic thread nominee this surely would be up there. Top six would be a result for hearts the way things are going for your mob.

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If there was a classic thread nominee this surely would be up there. Top six would be a result for hearts the way things are going for your mob.

 

Launch this hobo ph ucker

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i don't think we have the money nor the stability to ever really challenge smelltick or rankgers next year. 3rd place must be the priority for next season.

 

any domestic competition hearts enter they should be aiming to win the trophy. now a club the size of hearts it's a disgrace how few we have actually won and it's all down to bad decision making from owners/managers.

 

i will settle for the SPL championship and anything less would be disappointing. let's start to be winners instead of losers and win the top prize for the first time since 1960.

 

rangers and celtic aren't that good and if we fail it will be all down to bad leadership/management.

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Third should always be our target but, given our starting point, I'd personally accept a good fourth. :cool:

 

you see that's the post of a loser.

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davemclaren
you see that's the post of a loser.

 

Surely accepting 3rd, or even 2nd, is also the post of a loser. I prefer to see myself as a realist who sometimes loses. :P

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Surely accepting 3rd, or even 2nd, is also the post of a loser. I prefer to see myself as a realist who sometimes loses. :P

 

it's not realist's we want, it's winners.

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I don't honestly know if my expectations have changed all that much since before 'that' season with Burley etc. I know that doing so well felt completely unreal (but also deserved, at the time) and while I enjoyed it immensely, I did have a nagging worry that at some point the bubble would burst...because Hearts do well, but rarely THAT well.

 

I think I'm still very much a believer that 3rd place should be our main aim and that any real chance of ever being strong enough to regularly challenge the OF is a long way off. However, we should always be challenging to be the best of the rest. If the opportunity arises to do more than that, then fine.

 

While you might end up in the league position that you deserve in terms of points etc, I don't think there are many people (including fans of opposition teams) who would ever class us as a bottom 6 club. That's not where we belong.

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Zali Cinnamon
If, and it's a big if, the SFA get themselves sorted out 4th will be enough for the Uefa Cup.

 

Oh aye, forgot about that. Cheers.

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I would accept top 4 ... scap that ... would love top four, but only if we have a manager in place and players that want to play for the jersey. I fear that if we'd achieved this this season there wouldn't be half as much chat of protests we're seeing now. the problems are running so much deaper than just our league standings ... IF (thats a big IF) we sort out our problems AND finish in the top 4 then , Yes I'd be happy.

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jamboinglasgow

I would happily settle for third or fourth with a decent run in the scottish cup.

 

I was thinking about our last 11 results. In the last 11 league games (one cycle of games with 5 home games and 6 away) we have won 6, drawn 3 and lost 2 so in total 21 points. If it was repeated for 3 cycles of games (i.e. games played till the spilit) then we will have earned a total of 63 points. This is more than Dundee united and hibs have earned and more than Motherwell can achieve.

 

What I am saying is that with the right manager and passionate players we can do it. Though I would accept fourth if our new manager is needing time to get some things sorted. But as a rule fourth is a minium requirement for next season but must have a decent run in the Scottish cup.

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I'm as much a realist as anyone on here and the least I'd settle for is us TRYING to win the league. A mindset geared to anything less will see us struggling for a top six finish.

The last thing I want to see is us getting back into the old "I know my place" habit - going through to Glasgow with defeat in mind. Once that sets in it's not a leap of fancy to suggest that players would start thinking that a draw with Aberdeen Hibs Dundee United or Motherwell would also be acceptable.

What we really need - apart from a few solid older players to nurse our quality youngsters into the SPL is a manager with ATTITUDE - a bit like Ally McLeod had with the NT in the 70's. However, in the present climate I'd be prepared to settle for something just a bit less. That of course still rules out SF.

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Clerry Jambo
any domestic competition hearts enter they should be aiming to win the trophy. now a club the size of hearts it's a disgrace how few we have actually won and it's all down to bad decision making from owners/managers.

 

i will settle for the SPL championship and anything less would be disappointing. let's start to be winners instead of losers and win the top prize for the first time since 1960.

 

rangers and celtic aren't that good and if we fail it will be all down to bad leadership/management.

 

Mitch - I know where u are coming from and the quicker we get winners back at Tynie from Top to Bottom then we can start to rise again.

 

But the shambles we are in currently all we can aim for is 3rd place. To be honest in my 30 odd years following the Hearts this has normally been the case apart from 1986 and that lovely spell under Mr Burley.

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4th or the cup winner will get Europe next season. So I say top 4 and the Scottish Cup.

 

Scotland will have 5 representatives in Europe in 2009/10 so unless the SFA decide to award the league cup winners a UEFA Cup place, 4th place will be enough for the UEFA Cup.

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Despite rapid cost cutting we will still have the 3rd largest payroll in the SPL by a mile. So, like this season, anything less than 3rd will be a complete failure.

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I've a hunch that 3rd will end up between us and Dundee United next season.

Depends who is managing whom. ;)

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peckhamjambo
Mitch - I know where u are coming from and the quicker we get winners back at Tynie from Top to Bottom then we can start to rise again.

 

But the shambles we are in currently all we can aim for is 3rd place. To be honest in my 30 odd years following the Hearts this has normally been the case apart from 1986 and that lovely spell under Mr Burley.

 

I am sorry but I have to agree with Mitch on this one. We need the mentality of winners, not losers. The original poster's questions was 'Would you accept 3rd/4th next season'??!! The answer from every Hearts fan, player, coach, should always be 'no'. Whilst most of us would take that for this season, don't let that cloud your judgement for next. If we take Vlad's word for it (albeit reluctantly), then a new manager, an influx of new players and a better pre-season, we should be aiming to challenge the OF. They are hardly miles ahead in terms of ability, look at Broadfoot and Celtic's entire back four! I think the mentality of the OF alone and the mentality of their SPL rivals tends to generate them an extra 15-20 points per season alone. That needs to change immediately.

 

Lee

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Clerry Jambo
I am sorry but I have to agree with Mitch on this one. We need the mentality of winners, not losers. The original poster's questions was 'Would you accept 3rd/4th next season'??!! The answer from every Hearts fan, player, coach, should always be 'no'. Whilst most of us would take that for this season, don't let that cloud your judgement for next. If we take Vlad's word for it (albeit reluctantly), then a new manager, an influx of new players and a better pre-season, we should be aiming to challenge the OF. They are hardly miles ahead in terms of ability, look at Broadfoot and Celtic's entire back four! I think the mentality of the OF alone and the mentality of their SPL rivals tends to generate them an extra 15-20 points per season alone. That needs to change immediately.

 

Lee

 

Peckham, I agree with all you are saying.

 

BUT in the history of Heart of Midlothian how often have we managed to compete with the Old Firm in the league?

 

And lets be honest we are now coming from a position of Bottom 6 and if we get a McGhee type managerial appointment then 3rd place is certainly up for grabs but at the moment no higher - unless Romanov totally takes us by surprise and brings in quality in numbers over the summer.

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peckhamjambo
Peckham, I agree with all you are saying.

 

BUT in the history of Heart of Midlothian how often have we managed to compete with the Old Firm in the league?

 

And lets be honest we are now coming from a position of Bottom 6 and if we get a McGhee type managerial appointment then 3rd place is certainly up for grabs but at the moment no higher - unless Romanov totally takes us by surprise and brings in quality in numbers over the summer.

 

That's a fair point, although if we look at the annals of history as a benchmark, we will never move forwards? You could argue that whilst we are coming from a bottom 6 position, the results in the last quarter would indicate that even with a poor manager at the helm and in control of selection (Frail), we continue in that vein and we would be at least in 3rd place. Given the addition of more quality and better pre-season, more bedding in, we should be setting our sights higher. Of course there are always going to be ifs and buts, and most of what we are talking about is hypothetical, but my key point is our mindset should change. We should be aiming higher always, why can't we beat Rangers and Celtic regularly? We have done this season at Tynecastle and Celtic Park and we are utterly gash! Our mentality has to change, even if we have had a miserable season this one. Do you think Rangers two seasons ago, when they finished third, suddenly thought oh well, we finished third so probably the best we can hope for next is to aim for 2nd? No chance! They have the mentality of winners and despite a cutback in spending, relatively speaking, they are now favourites for the title this season.

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I'd like to think we could challenge the OF, but with the hun spending money (or looking to spend anyway) and Celtic bringing in a non ginger manager we haven't a hope. To be fair if the man we bring in to lead the team is Frail then top six would be my happy place.

 

Romanov isn't good enough to deliver anything else, the cup win was down to what Burley put in place and the players we had, what we have now is a non-league side in comparison.

 

Romanov's good for a laugh when he talks about monkeys and sh*t like that, good for flogging players at market value to earn himself a bob, maybe even good for a new stand (though I'm very skeptical on that) but he sure as hell isn't good for football and the supporters pleasure in watching it....not value for money.

 

Talented youth, a couple of old heads, decent manager and as long as the football is good to watch then 3rd/4th is fine by me. Anything less and with the resources we currently have at our disposal the fans are being massively short changed.

 

Maybe it's job done for Romanov? Looks to me that fans now don't expect a challenge, don't expect a win, and are back where we were in the days of Robinson. He's delivered us sh*te for long enough that we now look to a victory as a bonus, not a standard outcome.

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Cardiac Rucksack

Finish above Hibs and spank them 4 times next season will do for me. A wee bit of hert and fight in some performances wouldnt go a miss either.

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Third - and with it a place in the Yoofa Cup - is the minimum that's acceptable. Anything else will be a failure. :mad:

 

Not read all the replies but I think this should just about sum it up for everyone.

 

3rd place should be our minimum target every season.

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JamboGraham

The "target" of course has to be to win every competition that we enter.

 

However, it might be better to look at it as a minimum acceptable level rather than a target. This level has to be third place in the SPL.

 

Since we managed to get second place Rangers have spent over ?16 million adding to their squad, whilst Celtic have spent over ?19 million. This does not include bosmans or salary costs for any players. It is simply not possible for a club the size of ours to match this without a level of financial management that would make our current situation look prudent!

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