Gay Parents

[Boris]

Just a thoughht, but if having gay parents means that you will end up gay, how can we account for all the gayness that has preceeded us?

 

Or, to flip the argument, is it fair for a gay kid to be raised by hetero parents?

[Gorgiewave]

Just a thoughht, but if having gay parents means that you will end up gay, how can we account for all the gayness that has preceeded us?

 

Or, to flip the argument, is it fair for a gay kid to be raised by hetero parents?

 

1. There should be a mummy and a daddy. Both should work.

2. There should be 2-3 children. More for Catholics, who go to another school.

3. Girls should have long hair and not dye their skin orange or put on fake nails. They should aspire to whatever they want and think that a nice man is a good thing to find.

4. Boys should have short hair, como Dios manda, should not tattoo their skin and should not wear make up on TV, even if running for President of the United States. They should think that a nice girl is a good thing to find.

5. All of the foregoing should be Hearts fans.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

It took longer than expected for the homophobic card to be played. Where is it exactly? I can't see it.

 

Don't say this thread is homophobic or I'll bum you.

[The Treasurer]

you are using the fact that they might get bullied as some sort of reason to not allow gay couples to keep children.

 

but is a fat lad not as likely to get abuse at school?

 

Why do you continually misquote me ?

I never once said that a gay couple shouldn't be parents, I mearly pointed out a down side would be that their children would be an easy target for bullies.

 

Your example of fat parents and fat kids is irrelevant because it's their actions (ie making their child fat) that would make him target for bullies whereas the gay couple's kids would be a target because of what their parents are not for what the child is.

[Prince Buaben]

Wait a minute people are thinking about this all wrong...

Think about it....

 

 

Getting adopted by two lesbians

 

no brainer......

[mrmarkus1981]

Quite a lot of compelling arguments against gay families.

 

• Possible father - son sexual relationships
• 80% of gay family children turn gay = end of the human race
• John Barrowman

 

I asked a hypothetical question, that is all

[Boris]

It took longer than expected for the homophobic card to be played. Where is it exactly? I can't see it.

 

Don't say this thread is homophobic or I'll bum you.

 

 

I think you may be refering to one of my earlier posts? Never said that the thread was homophobic. Guess you'll just have to crack one off instead. I look like my avatar if that helps.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Just a thoughht, but if having gay parents means that you will end up gay, how can we account for all the gayness that has preceeded us?

 

Or, to flip the argument, is it fair for a gay kid to be raised by hetero parents?

 

It's hard to say if being raised by a gay family will make you gay. We'll have to wait about another 50/100 years before valid research can prove or disprove this.

 

Straight families have, in the main, raised straight children though so it could be suggested if it was turned the other way then the same would happen.

 

I know whenever I watch Dirty Dancing I always feel a bit camp after it so your thinking can be altered, imo.

[Boris]

 

I know whenever I watch Dirty Dancing I always feel a bit camp after it so your thinking can be altered, imo.

 

I've honestly never watched that film.

 

Perhaps you should throw on Where Eagles Dare or such like afterwards, to get your equilibrium back?

[Seats]

I am probably quite far down the line in being "anti-gay" (I don't agree with the use of homophobic) for reasons which I won't go into here. However, I have recently changed my views considerably on gay adoption.

 

My friend has recently adopted a little lad from Russia. This boy was two years old and badly malnourished to the extent that he was severly cross eyed due to lack of protien (what I was told, I'm not a doc). I could go on for ages about the life that this little lad had, but suffice it to say that his life was revolutionised by being adopted.

 

This has made me realise that any child who is adopted by ANY parent, so long as that parent can provide a loving environment is likely to be better off than being stuck in an orphanage or the welfare system.

 

No matter how much of a mincer you are, if you can love a child (you know what I mean) then you have my approval to try and adopt. Every single child deserves to be loved and cared for by someone, that persons sexuality should not come into it.

[shaun.lawson]

If the parents can provide a good upbringing, and give their children a good life. Then I have no problem with it.

 

Having gay parents is no more dysfunctional to a child than living with one parent who's brought their boyfriend/girlfriend into the family home.

 

Gay couples do far less damage to children than some people who have children and don't have them taken off them, despite substance abuse and no ability to look after a child.

 

That thing about the fairy godmother is obviously an isolated issue, but as long as they raise the children with care and affection I have no problem with it.

 

 

frankly I think a gay couple are just as likely to give a child a loving upbringing as a hetero couple, probably more so considering the amount of jakeys having kids when they are 16 and bringing them up on monster munch and rustlers.

 

Would a gay couple give any less of a balanced upbringing than a single parent? should single parents not be allowed kids unless they can find a partner?

 

 

I thought better of some of the people in this thread. (not you LP, we a'ight)

 

 

 

I have no qualms about gay couples raising kids. More power to them, shits isnt easy regardless.

 

 

At the end of the day a person's suitability to raise kids is down to the abilities of the person, not who they sleep with. If these kids are well brought up, then there isn't, and shouldn't be, a problem.

 

All these.

 

 

And what if they become sexually attracted to one of their sons in the future

 

Wind-up post IMO.

 

Quite a lot of compelling arguments against gay families.

 

• 
   
  
• Possible father - son sexual relationships
  
• 80% of gay family children turn gay = end of the human race
  
• John Barrowman
   
  

 

Very funny wind-up post IMO.

 

They opted out from having children narturarly so why allow them to be parents now

 

Not right

 

 

Wouldnt surprise me when yer Ma's yer Da

 

Embarrassing posts IMO.

 

No.

 

I don't believe that you can "turn" gay. You either are or aren't, imo.

 

I'm unconvinced by this. My youngest sister was undoubtedly born gay. My other sister describes herself as pansexual (and before anyone ridicules this, quite a lot of young people do nowadays), but my expectation is she's far more likely to end up with a female partner than a male one. Yet she herself acknowledges that, having been bullied constantly by our brother and father throughout her childhood, a chronic lack of positive male role models in her life - and especially, that both our brother and father were unpleasant tyrants - must've played a part in this. I think most homosexuals are born gay, but the environment has something to do with it in other cases too.

[Feeno]

Quite a lot of compelling arguments against gay families.

 

• Possible father - son sexual relationships
• 80% of gay family children turn gay = end of the human race
• John Barrowman

 

 

This is a good thing, there's too many people in the world.

[blondejamtart]

Given some of the horrific child abuse cases we've had lately, and some of the sorry excuses for "parents" involved, I'd rather see children adopted by two people who will genuinely love them and look after them properly, regardless of their sexuality or anything else.

[Boris]

 

 

I'm unconvinced by this. My youngest sister was undoubtedly born gay. My other sister describes herself as pansexual (and before anyone ridicules this, quite a lot of young people do nowadays), but my expectation is she's far more likely to end up with a female partner than a male one. Yet she herself acknowledges that, having been bullied constantly by our brother and father throughout her childhood, a chronic lack of positive male role models in her life - and especially, that both our brother and father were unpleasant tyrants - must've played a part in this. I think most homosexuals are born gay, but our environment has something to do with it in other cases too.

 

I think that we have in ourselves a sort of sliding scale of sexuality.

 

At one end is heterosexuality and at the other is homosexuality. In the middle is bisexuality.

 

Now all of us are different and so how far the indicator goes to either end of this sexuality spectrum is on an individual basis. Perhaps certain environmental influences will affect choices, especially in and around the centre, but I think I'd argue that these influences are merely awakening the hidden sexuality, be it hetero or homo, and not forming the sexuality.

[shaun.lawson]

I think that we have in ourselves a sort of sliding scale of sexuality.

 

At one end is heterosexuality and at the other is homosexuality. In the middle is bisexuality.

 

Now all of us are different and so how far the indicator goes to either end of this sexuality spectrum is on an individual basis. Perhaps certain environmental influences will affect choices, especially in and around the centre, but I think I'd argue that these influences are merely awakening the hidden sexuality, be it hetero or homo, and not forming the sexuality.

 

I totally agree about the sliding scale you mention. If it wasn't for knowing my sister, I'd also no doubt agree with your conclusion; but because I do, I remain unconvinced, but only in some cases.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Yes they do. Research into this suggests that as long as there is some kind of female (or male in the case of two females) role model for the children, the lack of the opposite sex in the house is pretty irrelevant. This role model can be anyone such as a Gran, Aunt, Teacher etc. Its having someone to look up to rather than the presence in the house which is vitally important (and this can apply for 'traditional' families too).

 

That's interesting, where is the research for this?

[Chester™]

That's interesting, where is the research for this?

 

Look at any research about the concept of attachment. A child needs an 'attuned' adult/caregiver and someone (even the same person), who is someone the child can look up to, if the attachment isnt the best. This theory would appear to apply across the board for opposite sex and same sex couples.

 

There is no confinement to having an opposite sex role model either, as I used it as a example. You can Google the effects of gay parenting and while the sample size, in year terms, is low, there seems to be no statistical variation in 'how kids turn out' between gay and straight couples.

 

As im sure you know, research is dependent on who funds it and the motives behind it. Im sure there are some neutral studies done which will be out there, if you look hard enough.

[redm]

Look at any research about the concept of attachment. A child needs an 'attuned' adult/caregiver and someone (even the same person), who is someone the child can look up to, if the attachment isnt the best. This theory would appear to apply across the board for opposite sex and same sex couples.

 

There is no confinement to having an opposite sex role model either, as I used it as a example. You can Google the effects of gay parenting and while the sample size, in year terms, is low, there seems to be no statistical variation in 'how kids turn out' between gay and straight couples.

 

As im sure you know, research is dependent on who funds it and the motives behind it. Im sure there are some neutral studies done which will be out there, if you look hard enough.

 

 

If you've read it, you must surely be able to point the rest of us in the right direction? Pointers would be helpful, it's definitely something I'd like to read up on.

 

While we're on the subject, are you sure that this research refers to actual gender and not simply male or female characteristics?

 

 

 

[N User]

I rather there were more caring, good living gay parents than schemie trash parents who had kids to get a council house to shoot up in.

 

 

I realise this line is quite blunt and possibly goes too far- but there are loads of children out there raised by really poor male & female parents.

This would be my issue before looking at gay parents.

[Say What Again]

The levels of homophobia amongst some on this thread are startling.

Can I ask where Boris?

 

The bizarre 'what if they become sexually attracted to one of their sons in the future' was a silly thing to post but I don't see much homophobia elsewhere. Certainly not 'startling levels'

[Guest King]

Can I ask where Boris?

 

The bizarre 'what if they become sexually attracted to one of their sons in the future' was a silly thing to post but I don't see much homophobia elsewhere. Certainly not 'startling levels'

 

 

It was not a serious comment. Thanks.

[jambojackbilly]

I think a lot of females turn queer cause they cant get a Man, usually hounds with short back and sides.More for company me thinks

[P-Dizzle]

It was not a serious comment. Thanks.

 

It's too late now you gay-basher.

[Chester™]

If you've read it, you must surely be able to point the rest of us in the right direction? Pointers would be helpful, it's definitely something I'd like to read up on.

 

While we're on the subject, are you sure that this research refers to actual gender and not simply male or female characteristics?

 

Unless you are able to access a number of academic journals and books then it might be difficult. As I said, Google 'effects of gay parenting' or a similar search and a number of news reports and other publications pop up, from both sides of the debate. Its up to to on what side you sit on from there.

 

And from what I read, its actual gender rather than taking on characteristics.

[Guest King]

It's too late now you gay-basher.

 

 

It probably is, ya dinnermasher.

[Say What Again]

It was not a serious comment. Thanks.

Then now I'm really toiling to see startling levels of homophobia

[shaun.lawson]

I think a lot of females turn queer cause they cant get a Man, usually hounds with short back and sides.More for company me thinks

 

Another wind-up post, albeit not a very good one. It is amazing how many young women are at least bi-curious nowadays. In terms of how increasingly open about and comfortable with their sexuality people are nowadays, this has to be a good thing - and it must be probable that just as many were at least curious about it in the past, but as it was frowned upon, they weren't able to be open about it or, in many cases, act on it.

 

I do wonder about the influence of porn on all this though: it often seems to me that many bi-curious or bisexual women are effectively conforming to the male stereotype and fantasy of lesbian sex.

[jambojackbilly]

Another wind-up post, albeit not a very good one. It is amazing how many young women are at least bi-curious nowadays. In terms of how increasingly open about and comfortable with their sexuality people are nowadays, this has to be a good thing - and it must be probable that just as many were at least curious about it in the past, but as it was frowned upon, they weren't able to be open about it or, in many cases, act on it.

 

I do wonder about the influence of porn on all this though: it often seems to me that many bi-curious or bisexual women are effectively conforming to the male stereotype and fantasy of lesbian sex.

 

 

My Sister in law is Gay and i don't have a problem with homosexuality

 

I do how ever get irritated with knowalls who just cant stomach some one elses take on things

[shaun.lawson]

My Sister in law is Gay and i don't have a problem with homosexuality

 

I do how ever get irritated with knowalls who just cant stomach some one elses take on things

 

But what are your views on things? If you don't have a problem with homosexuality, that means most if not all your posts on this thread have been wind-ups, leaving us none the wiser as to what you actually think.

[Guest Roop]

Already the best thread on new Kickback. Well done, AP.

 

[Boris]

Can I ask where Boris?

 

The bizarre 'what if they become sexually attracted to one of their sons in the future' was a silly thing to post but I don't see much homophobia elsewhere. Certainly not 'startling levels'

 

 

I may be being sensitive but here goes...

 

Saying that gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt as it may promote homosexuality or turn the children gay is, in my opinion, an homophobic statement.

 

Startling in that we now live in the 21st Century yet medieval perceptions about sex, sexuality etc are still around and being perpetuated.

[jambojackbilly]

But what are your views on things? If you don't have a problem with homosexuality, that means most if not all your posts on this thread have been wind-ups, leaving us none the wiser as to what you actually think.

 

 

Correct

 

Not fussed about the whole thing TBH hopefully everyone concerned lives happily ever after

[shaun.lawson]

I may be being sensitive but here goes...

 

Saying that gay couples shouldn't be allowed to adopt as it may promote homosexuality or turn the children gay is, in my opinion, an homophobic statement.

 

Startling in that we now live in the 21st Century yet medieval perceptions about sex, sexuality etc are still around and being perpetuated.

 

I agree. Because as long as any individual makes their own decisions once they reach adulthood, what's the problem?

[Boris]

I agree. Because as long as any individual makes their own decisions once they reach adulthood, what's the problem?

 

 

I think it's homophobic as there is not one shred of evidence to suggest that being brought up by gay parents would make you gay.

 

If you have two Mums, but are a boy, does that make you more attracted to males? If you have two Dads, but are a girl does that then make you attracted to females?

 

Of course it doesn't.

[Say What Again]

I agree. Because as long as any individual makes their own decisions once they reach adulthood, what's the problem?

 

 

I think it's homophobic as there is not one shred of evidence to suggest that being brought up by gay parents would make you gay.

 

If you have two Mums, but are a boy, does that make you more attracted to males? If you have two Dads, but are a girl does that then make you attracted to females?

 

Of course it doesn't.

 

Did anyone say it did though?

 

mrmarkus asked this question:

 

Question?

 

Most people are brought up with a mother and a father. If they split up, there is still a mother and father.

 

Now, i work with 2 gay chaps (there is only 3 of us in the office) and the thought of being with a woman gives them the boke. If these 2 gay men have the same attitude towards sleeping with a woman, do you think that the kids will grow up to be gay themselves?

 

Nobody actually says having 2 dads makes you gay.

 

Sorry if it seems like I'm pushing this or being picky, but I honestly don't see much that is homophobic. It smacks more of being branded homophobic purely for disagreeing with the idea of same sex parents.

[Boris]

Sorry if it seems like I'm pushing this or being picky, but I honestly don't see much that is homophobic. It smacks more of being branded homophobic purely for disagreeing with the idea of same sex parents.

 

What is the reason then for disagreeing with the idea of same sex parents?

[shaun.lawson]

 

 

Nobody actually says having 2 dads makes you gay.

 

Sorry if it seems like I'm pushing this or being picky, but I honestly don't see much that is homophobic. It smacks more of being branded homophobic purely for disagreeing with the idea of same sex parents.

 

But homophobia = fear of homosexuality or homosexuals. Like Boris, I can't really see any reason for being against same sex parents unless someone was, according to this definition, homophobic.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

What is the reason then for disagreeing with the idea of same sex parents?

 

The concerns I put forward were to do with how it affects the family, the influence it has on society and what consequences it has for children.

 

Nowt homophobic. Not surprised to see Shaun on the easily offended bus though, he must have bought one of they monthly passes.

[shaun.lawson]

The concerns I put forward were to do with how it affects the family, the influence it has on society and what consequences it has for children.

 

Nowt homophobic. Not surprised to see Shaun on the easily offended bus though, he must have bought one of they monthly passes.

 

The only concern I think anyone could reasonably have is they wouldn't be a child's biological parents. Yet we happily allow adoption and foster care amongst heterosexual couples, so it follows there shouldn't be a problem for homosexual couples to do so as well.

 

How does it affect the family? Positively, if a child is nurtured and brought up positively by a couple of either sexuality. Influence on society? The more children are brought up with love and care by anyone, the more they'll develop into responsible adults, and do the same with their own children; and the more gay couples who do a good job, the more tolerant and enlightened subsequent generations will be about the whole question of homosexuality. Consequences for children? A bit weird, I grant you - but many children have weird upbringings, and far and away the most important thing for any child is love.

 

And awfully sorry old fruit, but I haven't been "easily offended" by any post on this thread. Hence me referring to a good number of posts as wind-ups.

[Therapist]

No child can have a normal life with homosexual "parents". Homosexuality is not natural and they would undoubtedly be pressured at home to follow such a lifestyle in a similar way to parents who impose their football team on their children. Further, they would be absolutely tormented at school with all the psychological and physical damage that can bring.

 

Gaylords and lezzers should not be allowed to bring up children.

[IMA MAROON]

No.

 

I don't believe that you can "turn" gay. You either are or aren't, imo.

 

The mate's daughter had a kid a couple of years ago. I don't know if she just turned gay but she is no longer with her man and she now has a girlfriend.

[shaun.lawson]

No child can have a normal life with homosexual "parents". Homosexuality is not natural and they would undoubtedly be pressured at home to follow such a lifestyle in a similar way to parents who impose their football team on their children. Further, they would be absolutely tormented at school with all the psychological and physical damage that can bring.

 

Gaylords and lezzers should not be allowed to bring up children.

 

Please account for it also occurring pretty much universally throughout the animal kingdom; and hence, nature. That's proof it's very much natural.

 

Also, what is a 'normal life'? Does such a thing even exist? Are you normal, for example?

[redm]

The concerns I put forward were to do with how it affects the family, the influence it has on society and what consequences it has for children.

 

Nowt homophobic. Not surprised to see Shaun on the easily offended bus though, he must have bought one of they monthly passes.

 

 

Another trend that seems to have taken an unfortunate hold on this forum is casting the dismissive 'easily offended' card and accusing people of being overly sensitive instead of addressing the actual subject in hand. It seems to be the easy way out.

 

As for the part of your post highlighted above - you haven't actually detailed what your concerns are, but merely hinted that you might have some if there was an absence of female role models. Or something like that anyway. I kind of lost the gist in between all the stuff that was just skirting around the issue and taking the pee. So what are these concerns of yours?

[Therapist]

Please account for it being observed in almost 1500 other species in nature. That's proof it's very much natural.

 

It may be observed on occasion, but it's most certainly not normal.

 

Also, what is a 'normal life'? Does such a thing even exist? Are you normal, for example?

 

I can confirm I am extremely normal. Thanks for asking.

[shaun.lawson]

It may be observed on occasion, but it's most certainly not normal.

 

 

 

I can confirm I am extremely normal. Thanks for asking.

 

Ah, so now we've moved from 'not natural' (even you can't offer an argument in support of that nonsense), to 'not normal'. That's funny: I thought right wingers like you were all about freedom of the individual? Or is it just, as I've remarked before, freedom on your terms?

[Guest King]

Please account for it also occurring pretty much universally throughout the animal kingdom; and hence, nature. That's proof it's very much natural.

 

Also, what is a 'normal life'? Does such a thing even exist? Are you normal, for example?

 

 

I thought animals and humans main aims in life are to eat, breed and survive. Homosexuals do not want to breed with the opposite sex, produce offspring and populate - this is not human nature and IMO equals unnatural.

 

But if they are loving and caring and can give the child a good life then you cant complain.

[Therapist]

Ah, so now we've moved from 'not natural' (even you can't offer an argument in support of that nonsense), to 'not normal'.

 

Shaun, please don't take my words out of context in an attempt to get one over on me. For the avoidance of doubt, homosexuality is neither natural nor normal.

[shaun.lawson]

Shaun, please don't take my words out of context in an attempt to get one over on me. For the avoidance of doubt, homosexuality is neither natural nor normal.

 

It's impossible to argue it's anything other than natural. It occurs throughout nature; ergo, it's natural. Meanwhile, we established on here a few weeks back that you can't deal with the idea of anal sex; unfortunately for you, that's considered normal by a large section of the heterosexual population, let alone the homosexual one.

 

Meaning you've extrapolated norms applying to your own individual life, and applied them to everyone else's. Sorry old chum, but that's not how it works in a free society. It's why the church has less and less influence than it once did in Britain too.

[shaun.lawson]

I thought animals and humans main aims in life are to eat, breed and survive. Homosexuals do not want to breed with the opposite sex, produce offspring and populate - this is not human nature and IMO equals unnatural.

 

But if they are loving and caring and can give the child a good life then you cant complain.

 

Is the only purpose of heterosexual sex to produce offspring, then? Perhaps you'd like to explain why women have an organ designed purely for pleasure, and that alone?

 

Also, judging by your definition above, you make it sound like all human innovation, and even basic friendship, isn't natural - because according to you, we're only here to eat, breed and survive!

[Therapist]

It's impossible to argue it's anything other than natural. It occurs throughout nature; ergo, it's natural.

 

Incorrect Shaun. Animals only have sex in order to procreate, not for pleasure. Those animals who indulge in homosexuality are obviously temporarily confused or have some other abberation that affects their natural behaviour.

 

you can't deal with the idea of anal sex

 

Correct, it's disgusting. Your batty is designed for items to exit, not enter. Anal sex is wrong on so many levels.

 

 

It's why the church has less and less influence than it once did in Britain too.

 

Who mentioned the church?