Jump to content

How Would You Vote in IndyRef2?


Highlander

Recommended Posts

Unknown user
9 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

You having a laugh?  He's great at throwing out false assertions without any evidence, unable to back it up, then reverts back to another falsehood later in the day.  Best ignored rather asking him to justify his bullshit.

Unfortunately there's a real lack of goodwill in the debate on all sides. Although I believe in independence, I understand why some don't, and there's an interesting conversation to be had somewhere.

It's such a shame the way it's been polarised, the whole conversation could be informative and stimulating instead of tetchy, snidey, often disingenuous and more about getting a point on the board than discussing each others beliefs.

 

Again, on all sides 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 2.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • ri Alban

    267

  • frankblack

    213

  • Boris

    175

  • JamboX2

    134

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

coconut doug
8 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

I saw footage on Twitter of him leading the march (with others) chanting "What do we want? Independence! When do we want it? Now!" - more saying there's a disconnect in that and his party's message. 

 

Much like Burgon applauding a call for a general strike a few weeks ago.

 

 

He can go all he wants.

 

 

I don't think he does. I think there's a dishonesty in that statement though. The dishonesty being no one thinks there need be a ratification of "the mandate" - there's a pro-indy majority. But there's no agreed position from the parties to it. And the drive towards it seems to have stalled since it was voted on... In fact now it's Brexit dependent. Which really takes it close to "running out". To me, this confidence may wear thin the longer it's dragged out.

 

 

Odd ending. As I stated that post was my view looking in on it. It's interesting Sturgeon has never appeared at an AUOB event (to my knowledge) nor a serving minister for that. Appears as though she's distancing the government from this big push.

It' pretty clear that everybody in the Indy movement wants Indy, now but they also know that they will have to wait if it is to happen. They all know that a referendum now is unlikely to succeed and as the polls show, and has been widely argued and predicted Brexit is the likely game changer. Brexit is also the basis for the mandate.

 

The mandate remains intact and will last until the next election and so there is no dishonesty in the statement. That's how it works. You don't often get away with changing your policies in the middle of your tenure. Your supporters feel betrayed (see Labour). It may well require another vote to renew the mandate but equally it may not. Circumstances will dictate how the SNP react to the Brexit outcomes.

 

The drive has not stalled, there is a pause to allow the Brexit negotiations to happen and the outcomes to be better understood 

 

How does the fact that Brown uttered these words change anything?  As a Labour supporter you will be familiar with many marches of a similar nature. 

 

It's always entertaining to see you come on and accuse the Indy movement of dishonesty, factionalism, cultism, division and having a secret right wing agenda. I particularly enjoy your top tips of how to mobilise the movement and find the right strategy to achieve their aims.  Totally understandable given that you have been a member of the Labour Party for so long.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dusk_Till_Dawn
33 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Unfortunately there's a real lack of goodwill in the debate on all sides. Although I believe in independence, I understand why some don't, and there's an interesting conversation to be had somewhere.

It's such a shame the way it's been polarised, the whole conversation could be informative and stimulating instead of tetchy, snidey, often disingenuous and more about getting a point on the board than discussing each others beliefs.

 

Again, on all sides 

 

Which is why the issue should be left to lie after the first referendum. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

coconut doug
43 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

You having a laugh?  He's great at throwing out false assertions without any evidence, unable to back it up, then reverts back to another falsehood later in the day.  Best ignored rather asking him to justify his bullshit.

Why do it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

jack D and coke
5 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

Which is why the issue should be left to lie after the first referendum. 

But you don’t think circumstances have changed somewhat drastically? Particularly if it’s a hard brexit? And anyway if a party puts an indyref in their manifesto and gets enough votes, what it should just be ignored cos we’ve had one a few years ago? 

I don’t like Tory governments and they have next to zero mandate to do shit here but as we’re in the U.K. I accept it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unknown user
7 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

Which is why the issue should be left to lie after the first referendum. 

It's why we should try and have a more grown up debate, it's completely unrealistic to think the issue could ever be left to lie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

I can't find anything on this. Do you have a link?

Ruth Davidson on Twitter yesterday.  I follow all party leaders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting to hear Sir John Curtice on Sky News at SNP Conference saying the aggregate of polls have have not shifted since the last referendum which is the real reason Nicola doesnt want to commit to date of new referendum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

I agree, it is prominent on all sides.  It's crazy how some of the falsehoods spouted here and beyond become accepted truths because they are not challenged or repeated to the point of acceptance.

 

 

Jambo Lodge has made some wild nonfactual observations and then slithered away only to make more later in the day.  He lowers the tone for debate.

Care to be factual about my non factual observations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

coconut doug
7 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

Ruth Davidson on Twitter yesterday.  I follow all party leaders.

Maybe you do but you clearly don't understand what you have read.

 

Nicola Sturgeon did not make this claim.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

All you have to do is refer to your most recent post:

 

"Interesting to hear Sir John Curtice on Sky News at SNP Conference saying the aggregate of polls have have not shifted since the last referendum which is the real reason Nicola doesnt want to commit to date of new referendum."

 

How could you possibly know what Nicola Sturgeon was thinking when no one else does?  Your over-generalizations and bold sweeping statements make you look like a fool.

Dear oh dear. I was quoting John Cutice and his expert views not my own. Factual comment I think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

Maybe you do but you clearly don't understand what you have read.

 

Nicola Sturgeon did not make this claim.

 

 

I was quoting the Twitter feed from Ruth Davidson yesterday  sorry it does not sit well with your NAT views.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

coconut doug
4 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

I was quoting the Twitter feed from Ruth Davidson yesterday  sorry it does not sit well with your NAT views.

You may well have thought you were quoting the twitter feed but you were not. You claimed Nicola accused the BBC of employing Ruth Davidson at the SNP conference. She did not.

 

Anybody who is interested can check your post and Ruth Davidson's twitter feed.

 

It has nothing whatsoever to do with my Nat views whatever you think they might be. It has everything to do with your inabilty to make coherent points without telling lies and playing the sectarian card. What did the tweet have to do with Celtic? Yesterday it was somebody linking the AUOB march to the Green Brigade. Pathetic.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

I was quoting the Twitter feed from Ruth Davidson yesterday  sorry it does not sit well with your NAT views.

 

From what i saw on Davidson's twitter feed, there was no mention of Sturgeon making this accusation.  Yet you said she did.

 

Fake news all round, with you contributing to it?

 

I do love a wild Nat conspiracy theory as much as the next person, but for the record, I've spent the day thus far in my Holyrood parliamentary office, not in the pay of the BBC at the SNP conference... #zoom ???

Ruth Davidson added,

Do44xd4XgAA8xl4.jpg
Nicola's No1 Comrade @ChrisMcCusker67
I have to question the motive behind @BBC for engaging the services of @RuthDavidsonMSP to offer her opinion on the coverage of our Conference starting today. All it takes is one member to take exception to her presence, & on camera we…
2:23 PM - 8 Oct 2018
Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

Dear oh dear. I was quoting John Cutice and his expert views not my own. Factual comment I think.

 

As you say, Curtice' own opinion (expert view).  Which is different from a factual comment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

As you say, Curtice' own opinion (expert view).  Which is different from a factual comment.

8 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

So John Curtice, a man who has been consistently and carefully neutral when commentating on politics has offered an objective opinion why the SNP are not announcing a date for another referendum?

 

I've tried looking for the Sky News interview but failed to find it, calling BS on this.

Interviewed by Adam Bolton late morning on Sky News feed from conference. 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

As you say, Curtice' own opinion (expert view).  Which is different from a factual comment.

My comment was factual Boris.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Boris said:

 

Gotcha.

 

1 out of 2 is good going! :wink:

Ok apologies if I posted " fake news " sometimes we read things quickly and assume they are correct.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

Ok apologies if I posted " fake news " sometimes we read things quickly and assume they are correct.

 

Haha, only pulling your leg.

 

It's only recently I found out that Uncle Joe wasn't a murderous butcher but was in fact at the vanguard in creating socialist civilisation! *

 

 

 

*tongue may slightly be in cheek there....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Hi HD. Lovely to hear from you. As my post said it was my opinion.

 

It doesn't need a link to the Guardian or Ferrett to see there's no substantive process to any of this beyond the SNP itself and what they deem is needed to get over the line.

 

Where's the neutral convention for all interested parties like the SCC of the 80s and 90s? Why are there loads of marches and no real aims to unite a movement behind principles rather than a flag?

 

As I say, I no longer live in Scotland. But looking back in I see a lot of similarities to what the Brexit mob were doing. More about emotions than reasons. 

 

Apologies - so you were.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

It' pretty clear that everybody in the Indy movement wants Indy, now but they also know that they will have to wait if it is to happen. They all know that a referendum now is unlikely to succeed and as the polls show, and has been widely argued and predicted Brexit is the likely game changer. Brexit is also the basis for the mandate.

 

The mandate remains intact and will last until the next election and so there is no dishonesty in the statement. That's how it works. You don't often get away with changing your policies in the middle of your tenure. Your supporters feel betrayed (see Labour). It may well require another vote to renew the mandate but equally it may not. Circumstances will dictate how the SNP react to the Brexit outcomes.

 

The drive has not stalled, there is a pause to allow the Brexit negotiations to happen and the outcomes to be better understood 

 

How does the fact that Brown uttered these words change anything?  As a Labour supporter you will be familiar with many marches of a similar nature. 

 

It's always entertaining to see you come on and accuse the Indy movement of dishonesty, factionalism, cultism, division and having a secret right wing agenda. I particularly enjoy your top tips of how to mobilise the movement and find the right strategy to achieve their aims.  Totally understandable given that you have been a member of the Labour Party for so long.

 

First things first, no longer.

 

I just think if you want this to happen perhaps following the methods of the last cross-societal push for far reaching constitutional change... the Constitutional Convention. I don't feel that's controversial. 

 

I mean surely you'd want to adopt a formalised approach which offers as broad a vision and champions diversity of opinion. The AUOB to me and others who are there to be convinced in order to win won't be won over by satires and Tommy Sheridan speeches. All I'm saying to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thunderstruck
1 hour ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

So John Curtice, a man who has been consistently and carefully neutral when commentating on politics has offered an objective opinion why the SNP are not announcing a date for another referendum?

 

I've tried looking for the Sky News interview but failed to find it, calling BS on this.

 

This is from his blog published yesterday.

 

It is a perfectly valid observation and does not compromise his neutrality. 

 



Even so, at 43% and 36% respectively, the party’s average rating for the two ballots across the three polls is still four and six points respectively what the party secured at the last Scttish Parliament election in 2016, which means that there will continue to be a nagging question at the back of Nicola Sturgeon’s mind as to whether, even with the support of the Greens (on 7%), there will still be a pro-independence majority at Holyrood after 2021.

 

http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2018/10/a-tale-of-two-scenarios-actual-and-hypothetical-independence-polling/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

coconut doug
24 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

First things first, no longer.

 

I just think if you want this to happen perhaps following the methods of the last cross-societal push for far reaching constitutional change... the Constitutional Convention. I don't feel that's controversial. 

 

I mean surely you'd want to adopt a formalised approach which offers as broad a vision and champions diversity of opinion. The AUOB to me and others who are there to be convinced in order to win won't be won over by satires and Tommy Sheridan speeches. All I'm saying to you.

Indy is not Brexit. With Indy there is no sharing of power or sovereignty or anything like that. There is no need for a constitutuonal convention or anything like it. If people don't want Indy then they should oppose it. There is no further compromise available. The vision is as broad as it can be which is that Scottish people get to shape Scotland in the way that is most appropriate for them. How it deals with dissenting views is for after iNDY. Too many promises have been broken already and there is too much ill will to the Indy movement. Labour is finished and all we can expect is eternal Tory governmnet and growing inequality. Brexit uber austerity and the subsequent reduction or abolition of the Barnet formula will hurt Scotland. Individuals can see this even if at present they are not minded to vote for Indy. Marches are good morale boosters though especialy when the annoy the other side so much.

 

 Do you think the lies, misrepresentations and personal insults used so frequently by the Unionists endear them to potential supporters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

Indy is not Brexit. With Indy there is no sharing of power or sovereignty or anything like that. There is no need for a constitutuonal convention or anything like it. If people don't want Indy then they should oppose it. There is no further compromise available. The vision is as broad as it can be which is that Scottish people get to shape Scotland in the way that is most appropriate for them. How it deals with dissenting views is for after iNDY. Too many promises have been broken already and there is too much ill will to the Indy movement. Labour is finished and all we can expect is eternal Tory governmnet and growing inequality. Brexit uber austerity and the subsequent reduction or abolition of the Barnet formula will hurt Scotland. Individuals can see this even if at present they are not minded to vote for Indy. Marches are good morale boosters though especialy when the annoy the other side so much.

 

I just feel more could be done to present a vision of how Scotland would seek to be different by governance post-Yes. And that's for Yes to do now. There will be shared sovereignty post-yes. No nation is really truly sovereign to so as it so pleases by virtue of international associations. Perhaps debate is needed within yes to show these considerations are possible. Just perhaps a display of the options open - as SCC did - would broaden it's appeal.

 

Dissent is an interesting choice of word. Why not just difference of opinion?

 

19 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 Do you think the lies, misrepresentations and personal insults used so frequently by the Unionists endear them to potential supporters.

 

No. Do you think they do much on your side?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

I just feel more could be done to present a vision of how Scotland would seek to be different by governance post-Yes. And that's for Yes to do now. There will be shared sovereignty post-yes. No nation is really truly sovereign to so as it so pleases by virtue of international associations. Perhaps debate is needed within yes to show these considerations are possible. Just perhaps a display of the options open - as SCC did - would broaden it's appeal.

 

Dissent is an interesting choice of word. Why not just difference of opinion?

 

 

No. Do you think they do much on your side?

 

Precisely what I am trying to get across - the Yes camp need to detail exactly how we would be governed, what currency we would use, what trade deals we would have in place with the rUK, how healthy would the financial outlook be, and whether we would be in the EU and Single Market or not.  If the SNP feels we need a people's vote on the Brexit deal, then surely the same applies here?

 

Talk of a collaborative government post independence won't wash when the only significant party in Holyrood for Independence is the SNP and everyone else wants to remain in the UK.

 

I voted Yes last time, but that abysmal white paper was so ridiculously far off the mark it was proved to fail when the Oil price collapsed.   I think a lot of people who voted Yes last time will remember this, and the ball is in the SNP's court to prove they have a viable plan to take Scotland forwards rather than into the abyss.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Space Mackerel
15 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

Not so beautiful for the environment. What a thoroughly pathetic waste of fuel. Regardless of cause. All these marches, motorcades, convoys  and flag waving - do you honestly think it atttacts any new support? Try presenting some sound a costed economic figures and you might have some more success.

 

I think it does, it’s another aspect to the march. Quite the sight watching 280 bikes ride from the airport and through the park. Brings attention to domestic and foreign audiences. 

 

I ride a bike, in fact I’ve 2 in my garage at home. 

When should I ride them and for what occasion/purpose?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

Indy is not Brexit. With Indy there is no sharing of power or sovereignty or anything like that. There is no need for a constitutuonal convention or anything like it. 

 

1 hour ago, JamboX2 said:

 

I just feel more could be done to present a vision of how Scotland would seek to be different by governance post-Yes. And that's for Yes to do now.

 

Got to agree with JX2.

 

For example, last time round I would have really wanted an independent Scotland to have a bicameral system yet all we would get was Holyrood as is.

 

I think the currency options are also a concern to many, so some concensus there would be useful.

 

The SNP want independence, as do many others.  Do those others want an SNP version of independence?  For this to work, there needs to be a consensual approach.  I'm cool with the SNP being seen as the main pillar of a YES movement, to thik otherwise would be churlish.  Equally, they have to recognise theh broad chusrch that is the electorate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

coconut doug

 You're putting the cart before the horse. When and if independence is achieved constitutional issues can be discussed in a meaningful way. It is enough to know initially that it will be democratic. I presume you accept that Holyrood is more democratic and representative than Westminster. That in itself would be an improvement. Further improvements can be incremental or even revolutionary but that will be for Scotland to decide when it is away from the pervasive influence of Westminster.

 

I wouldn't support a bicameral system either. There are far too many politicians as it is and for a country as small as ours to have 4 layers is not a good thing.

 

We will have no choice but to create our own currency. The Euro is not popular and the pound would not and could not be used to our advantage.

 

For those who think we need a trade deal with rUK that lies in the hands of HMG right now as i expect Scotland will if it becomes independent, be a member of the EU shortly afterwards.  

 

BTW The fake news is not "all round". It is restricted to one individual and entirely manufactured by him

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 You're putting the cart before the horse. When and if independence is achieved constitutional issues can be discussed in a meaningful way. It is enough to know initially that it will be democratic. I presume you accept that Holyrood is more democratic and representative than Westminster. That in itself would be an improvement. Further improvements can be incremental or even revolutionary but that will be for Scotland to decide when it is away from the pervasive influence of Westminster.

 

I wouldn't support a bicameral system either. There are far too many politicians as it is and for a country as small as ours to have 4 layers is not a good thing.

 

We will have no choice but to create our own currency. The Euro is not popular and the pound would not and could not be used to our advantage.

 

For those who think we need a trade deal with rUK that lies in the hands of HMG right now as i expect Scotland will if it becomes independent, be a member of the EU shortly afterwards.  

 

BTW The fake news is not "all round". It is restricted to one individual and entirely manufactured by him

So independence first, then a constitutional convention? Fair enough. 

 

Do you have a link to the Davidson on the BBC story? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

jack D and coke

No idea if this is right or not but it puts the Edinburgh AUOB March numbers at under 13,000. I have to say I’m tending to agree, nobody has produced a photo yet showing anywhere absolutely heaving and you know it would be plastered everywhere if they had.

https://www.aforceforgood.uk/single-post/2018/10/08/AFFG-Reveals-Number-at-Edinburgh-March-12789

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Space Mackerel
19 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

No idea if this is right or not but it puts the Edinburgh AUOB March numbers at under 13,000. I have to say I’m tending to agree, nobody has produced a photo yet showing anywhere absolutely heaving and you know it would be plastered everywhere if they had.

https://www.aforceforgood.uk/single-post/2018/10/08/AFFG-Reveals-Number-at-Edinburgh-March-12789

 

13,000 ?

 

You do know who runs that page? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 I wouldn't support a bicameral system either. There are far too many politicians as it is and for a country as small as ours to have 4 layers is not a good thing.

 

I know many nations Scotland's size prefer a unicmeral system. Not opposed to it myself. It works if backbenchers are empowered and committees to be very critical of government. But in comparison to Norway, Denmark, Finland and Sweden, Scotland is under represented. In fact the UK in comparison to a more successful nation it's size in Germany is again unrepresented in terms of representatives per head.

 

Lesley Riddoch has been pretty good here. I do think we are actually underrepresented and that better outcomes occur when services are delivered much more locally. Be good to see any movement on that from any Scottish party devo or Indy.

 

https://senscot.net/time-to-reform-scotlands-unloved-councils/ 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/lesley-riddoch-genuinely-local-system-a-long-way-off-1-4141103/amp

 

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/500-people-gather-in-glasgow-for-democracy21/

 

2 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

For those who think we need a trade deal with rUK that lies in the hands of HMG right now as i expect Scotland will if it becomes independent, be a member of the EU shortly afterwards.  

 

Tend to agree. But if Scotland joins the EU if there is a hard border to the UK that will be replicated at Berwick and Gretna. Not so sure that's a great thing for jobs, travel and trade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Boris said:

So independence first, then a constitutional convention? Fair enough. 

 

That'll need to happen anyway. Doing the ground work now and beginning the dialogue across the peace is what they should be doing. I find it interesting the thrust again on independence was the successes of the SNP in office and "more hope" rather than a vision of how they'd achieve fairer society through a constitutional change.

 

Otherwise it's all about the SNP. A risky move if you want to win their opponents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Precisely what I am trying to get across - the Yes camp need to detail exactly how we would be governed, what currency we would use, what trade deals we would have in place with the rUK, how healthy would the financial outlook be, and whether we would be in the EU and Single Market or not.  If the SNP feels we need a people's vote on the Brexit deal, then surely the same applies here?

 

Talk of a collaborative government post independence won't wash when the only significant party in Holyrood for Independence is the SNP and everyone else wants to remain in the UK.

 

I voted Yes last time, but that abysmal white paper was so ridiculously far off the mark it was proved to fail when the Oil price collapsed.   I think a lot of people who voted Yes last time will remember this, and the ball is in the SNP's court to prove they have a viable plan to take Scotland forwards rather than into the abyss.

 

Independence can win two ways:

 

1. An emotive Brexit style campaign. An appeal to the heart and a lot of Westminster bashing. - AUOB is this to me.

 

which ignores a lot of good from cross-working and shared interests and history much like Brexit did on the EU.

 

2. An inclusive and purposeful campaign focused educating people and bringing in different voices - dare I say it - even an open door to unionists and opposition parties to share ideas on the future of how we see Scotland. Like the SCC it could form a probable view on how government would be different.

 

imo the best bet based on the historic success of the Devolution process. 

 

I'm not convinced that there's a lot to gain by ending political unions. The debate to me where does power sit best and I do see in some areas we get more from being in a bigger unit more now than I ever have.

 

I just feel we need to take the heat out the debate if it's truly going to benefit normal people. At present I don't think it does. It just polarises. As evidenced in party conference speeches by all sides on their opponents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

jack D and coke
16 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

13,000 ?

 

You do know who runs that page? 

I’ve no idea pal. Point being is if there was anything like 100k people there the pictures and drone footage or whatever would’ve been much more impressive. 

The same one or two pictures have been posted up all over the shop, there would’ve been hundreds if the 100k figure was even remotely right enough. 

Edit...Jesus I’ve just noticed who runs that page, love of **** :lol: 

Edited by jack D and coke
Link to comment
Share on other sites

SwindonJambo
16 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I’ve no idea pal. Point being is if there was anything like 100k people there the pictures and drone footage or whatever would’ve been much more impressive. 

The same one or two pictures have been posted up all over the shop, there would’ve been hundreds if the 100k figure was even remotely right enough. 

Edit...Jesus I’ve just noticed who runs that page, love of **** :lol: 

 

I’ve just had a wee look too. Dearie dear! Even I’m laughing. Looks like a right bunch of fruitcakes. Unfortunately there are a fair few of them - on BOTH sides and neither are especially helpful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

Quite the startling fact!

 

SNP bad though. 

 

 

Well done to the Scottish Councils. Hope this is factual enough for Hunky Dory but in the same speech Nicola mentioned Independence 13 times and only mentioned Education ( her Governments highest priority ) once...……..source...many different opposition politicians on social media.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Space Mackerel
33 minutes ago, jambo lodge said:

Well done to the Scottish Councils. Hope this is factual enough for Hunky Dory but in the same speech Nicola mentioned Independence 13 times and only mentioned Education ( her Governments highest priority ) once...……..source...many different opposition politicians on social media.

 

I think most the board on here are getting a bit tired of the rubbish you post on here. 

 

Take a break, it’ll do you the world of good. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Space Mackerel
16 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I’ve no idea pal. Point being is if there was anything like 100k people there the pictures and drone footage or whatever would’ve been much more impressive. 

The same one or two pictures have been posted up all over the shop, there would’ve been hundreds if the 100k figure was even remotely right enough. 

Edit...Jesus I’ve just noticed who runs that page, love of **** :lol: 

 

Just so everyone is aware too now ?

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16399120.meet-the-pro-union-activist-who-has-worked-for-the-orange-order-and-denies-jews-were-murdered-in-gas-chambers/

 

Quite the nutjob. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thunderstruck
42 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

There's a difference between this post and what you posted two days ago, I hope you can see the difference:

 

On 08/10/2018 at 10:55,  jambo lodge said: 

So 20-30 thousand march in Edinburgh, record  numbers attending the SNP Conference in Glasgow yet no discussion allowed on a second referendum. Oh the cultish control of the Murrells but the masses still don't see it.  

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/jim-sillars-totalitarian-snp-run-like-the-communist-party-1-2517038

 

Has the SNP moderated its stance in the intervening 6 years or does the description of the leadership - by party members - as the ‘McMafia’ remain appropriate?

 

As he seems to be moving in a different political direction and now outside the party, the tension between Sturgeon and Salmond will make for interesting viewing in the coming months. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

1 hour ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

I think most the board on here are getting a bit tired of the rubbish you post on here. 

 

Take a break, it’ll do you the world of good. 

 

Two different posts from you just about next to each other.

 

What is it about people in glass houses?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/jim-sillars-totalitarian-snp-run-like-the-communist-party-1-2517038

 

Has the SNP moderated its stance in the intervening 6 years or does the description of the leadership - by party members - as the ‘McMafia’ remain appropriate?

 

As he seems to be moving in a different political direction and now outside the party, the tension between Sturgeon and Salmond will make for interesting viewing in the coming months. 

 

 

 

That would pretty much sum up their stance on Brexit and pretty much anything at Westminster - vote as a block all the time regardless of the individual views of MPs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Space Mackerel
27 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

Two different posts from you just about next to each other.

 

What is it about people in glass houses?

 

I post facts and the odd sarcastic one now and then for a bit of humour. 

 

Youve been caught numerous times for posting absolute falsehoods and generally trolling. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Space Mackerel
51 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/jim-sillars-totalitarian-snp-run-like-the-communist-party-1-2517038

 

Has the SNP moderated its stance in the intervening 6 years or does the description of the leadership - by party members - as the ‘McMafia’ remain appropriate?

 

As he seems to be moving in a different political direction and now outside the party, the tension between Sturgeon and Salmond will make for interesting viewing in the coming months. 

 

 

 

The Scotsman I believe is down to about 7000 copies sold per day. 

 

I wonder why that is. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

That would pretty much sum up their stance on Brexit and pretty much anything at Westminster - vote as a block all the time regardless of the individual views of MPs.

 

Which is pretty much what every political party does...

Edited by Boris
Link to comment
Share on other sites

EastSideJambo
17 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Which is pretty much what every political party does...

That's simply not the case though is it. Labour have great differences of options throughout the Party. Conservatives the same 

 

SNP MP's and MSP's simply fall in line with the message from HQ 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I’ve no idea pal. Point being is if there was anything like 100k people there the pictures and drone footage or whatever would’ve been much more impressive. 

The same one or two pictures have been posted up all over the shop, there would’ve been hundreds if the 100k figure was even remotely right enough. 

Edit...Jesus I’ve just noticed who runs that page, love of **** :lol: 

Absolutely nowhere near 100,000 there however; easy 40,000 I would say which is a decent sized rally for Scotland.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, EastSideJambo said:

That's simply not the case though is it. Labour have great differences of options throughout the Party. Conservatives the same 

 

SNP MP's and MSP's simply fall in line with the message from HQ 

 

I'm sure there are differences of opinion within the SNP too, for example the reaction Sturgeon received for not overtly saying there would be another indy ref at the party conference.  There are plenty of posts on this thread that refer to rifts within the SNP, so isn't that contradictory?

 

If you look at voting records in the parliaments, you will rarely find representatives of parties voting against the whip en masse.

 

Parliamentary arithmetic would suggest why the SNP tends to vote in concentrated mass.  IMO, of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...