Morgan Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Momentum growing here over the ‘Africa won the World Cup’ comments at the start of the week. Apparently, 15 members of the French squad can find their roots in Africa. Ridiculous considering that they were all born in France (or so I’ve heard). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Think Trevor Noah (Daily Show) has got involved in a spat over this as well. One of the rebukes to Noah was that it implies whiteness is a definition of being French (and that, by default, black French are not "proper" French), and this supports the far right view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 It's a bit sad that this comment seems to be used in a negative light. I've heard it discussed a lot. It's surely a pretty feel good story. Great to see people coming from humble backgrounds and roots, living a better life and contributing to their adopted homeland or in some cases, the place they were born and raised. Hope this is a story that immigrants can use as inspiration the world over. Given the Torpedo Moscow story that's developing, I'm ****ing delighted that a team of predominantly black players won that tournament on Russian soil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 You mean to say England didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: Think Trevor Noah (Daily Show) has got involved in a spat over this as well. One of the rebukes to Noah was that it implies whiteness is a definition of being French (and that, by default, black French are not "proper" French), and this supports the far right view. It was the French Ambassador who rebuked Trevor with that. Tbf, Trevor responded saying he appreciates the point he was making but that he wasn't using his point to downplay their Frenchness, merely as a way to celebrate the duality of their Frenchness and African heritage. My own view is that although the reason there are so many black people in England, France and the USA in particular are well known and not particularly nice but it is the past (yes there are a still issues I'm well aware of). What the French squad represents to me is what France is, in the 21st century, a multicultural society with various heritages and backgrounds that are joined under the one national flag. It's a positive. Again, I appreciate there are still issues for non white people in France regarding employment and opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, John Findlay said: You mean to say England didn't? No. They think they did though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queensferryjambo Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Stating the absolute obvious - Africa cannot win a world cup as it is not a country it is a continent. Even if the French players are descendants of African nations surely it will be a mixture of multiple different countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 29 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: Think Trevor Noah (Daily Show) has got involved in a spat over this as well. One of the rebukes to Noah was that it implies whiteness is a definition of being French (and that, by default, black French are not "proper" French), and this supports the far right view. Some French people do indeed believe that by being black makes some of their fellow countrymen ‘not real French’. The French football association got such stick a good few years ago from Italy for fielding so many black players that, when Italy first handed a cap to Balotelli, the French went over the top in handing back the criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergio Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 30 minutes ago, Locky said: It's a bit sad that this comment seems to be used in a negative light. I've heard it discussed a lot. It's surely a pretty feel good story. Great to see people coming from humble backgrounds and roots, living a better life and contributing to their adopted homeland or in some cases, the place they were born and raised. Hope this is a story that immigrants can use as inspiration the world over. Given the Torpedo Moscow story that's developing, I'm ****ing delighted that a team of predominantly black players won that tournament on Russian soil. Very good point in your last sentence Locky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 34 minutes ago, Locky said: It's a bit sad that this comment seems to be used in a negative light. I've heard it discussed a lot. It's surely a pretty feel good story. Great to see people coming from humble backgrounds and roots, living a better life and contributing to their adopted homeland or in some cases, the place they were born and raised. Hope this is a story that immigrants can use as inspiration the world over. Given the Torpedo Moscow story that's developing, I'm ****ing delighted that a team of predominantly black players won that tournament on Russian soil. Your last sentence is, indeed, a rather good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paulo Sergio Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 We're all descendants of Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Almost every national team in every single sport on the planet has players from immigrant backgrounds, players allowed to compete due to being fast-tracked passports and lots of other practises like these. Racists gonna racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmore Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 49 minutes ago, Locky said: It's a bit sad that this comment seems to be used in a negative light. I've heard it discussed a lot. It's surely a pretty feel good story. Great to see people coming from humble backgrounds and roots, living a better life and contributing to their adopted homeland or in some cases, the place they were born and raised. Hope this is a story that immigrants can use as inspiration the world over. Given the Torpedo Moscow story that's developing, I'm ****ing delighted that a team of predominantly black players won that tournament on Russian soil. I can only repeat what others have said about your last sentence. A really good point. The best get it up you to the Russian racists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juanjo15 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Wouldn't it be the Continental Cup? If so well done Africa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, John Findlay said: You mean to say England didn't? Yeah English have over 4 times those of immigrant background in team than population though that wording isn't perfect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Lynam Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Locky said: It's a bit sad that this comment seems to be used in a negative light. I've heard it discussed a lot. It's surely a pretty feel good story. Great to see people coming from humble backgrounds and roots, living a better life and contributing to their adopted homeland or in some cases, the place they were born and raised. Hope this is a story that immigrants can use as inspiration the world over. Given the Torpedo Moscow story that's developing, I'm ****ing delighted that a team of predominantly black players won that tournament on Russian soil. Totally unaware of this story Locky. That’s disgraceful that the fans got the guys contract cancelled. He’s a Russian citizen ffs! It’s sad there is still people with such a limited view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 38 minutes ago, Bring Back Paulo Sergio said: We're all descendants of Africa. Colin Maroon will be seething at this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 42 minutes ago, Bring Back Paulo Sergio said: We're all descendants of Africa. I am borg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Sergio said: That a reference to the white icebergs melting into the blue sea. Very observant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, DH1986 said: Colin Maroon will be seething at this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 53 minutes ago, Cade said: Almost every national team in every single sport on the planet has players from immigrant backgrounds, players allowed to compete due to being fast-tracked passports and lots of other practises like these. Racists gonna racist. Brazilians who think they have a better chance of international football are an example such as Diego Costa for Spain, Pepè for Portugal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Morgan said: Momentum growing here over the ‘Africa won the World Cup’ comments at the start of the week. Apparently, 15 members of the French squad can find their roots in Africa. Ridiculous considering that they were all born in France (or so I’ve heard). All that matters is where you learned your trade. This clinging onto roots is nice, but we can all do that no matter how far you want to go back. You are influenced by where you grow up , Black or white etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, frankblack said: Brazilians who think they have a better chance of international football are an example such as Diego Costa for Spain, Pepè for Portugal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Morgan said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, frankblack said: Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Paulo Sergio Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 38 minutes ago, DH1986 said: Colin Maroon will be seething at this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Hungry working class poorer people doing well shouldn't be a surprise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 4 hours ago, frankblack said: Brazilians who think they have a better chance of international football are an example such as Diego Costa for Spain, Pepè for Portugal. Also see the large number of Australian/NZ/Canadian accents in UK international rugby, cricket and tennis teams! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
part_time_jambo Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 7 hours ago, Locky said: It's a bit sad that this comment seems to be used in a negative light. I've heard it discussed a lot. It's surely a pretty feel good story. Great to see people coming from humble backgrounds and roots, living a better life and contributing to their adopted homeland or in some cases, the place they were born and raised. Hope this is a story that immigrants can use as inspiration the world over. Given the Torpedo Moscow story that's developing, I'm ****ing delighted that a team of predominantly black players won that tournament on Russian soil. Playing Devils Advocate here, but if i were to say " I'm ****ing delighted that a team of predominantly white players won that tournament", I would be accused of being racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 I think you need to see the different cultures here. Noah’s joke was meant for an American audiences who view nationality/ethnicity different to the French/other Europeans (ourselves included). Everyone in America is a hyphen something. Irish-American, Scots-American, Italian-American, German, Hispanic... Someone’s ancestral and cultures roots are seen as what’s part of ‘being American’. That’s why you often here stories about Americans who couldn’t point to Scotland on a map say “I’m Scottish... my family has a castle” nonsense. To them, they are Scottish. Just as their neighbours, the O’Donnell’s who have never been to Ireland and can name the last person born there, are Irish. To Europeans, they are all American. It all comes back to their respective revolutions and how their current republics came into being. So in my mind, Noah wasn’t saying that they weren’t French or trying to take any of that away. There’s no real right answer in my opinion. While Noah was obviously trying to celebrate the diversity of the French team, he perhaps should have been aware of how the joke would play in France. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Same as West Ham won the WC in 66! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Toggie88 said: I think you need to see the different cultures here. Noah’s joke was meant for an American audiences who view nationality/ethnicity different to the French/other Europeans (ourselves included). Everyone in America is a hyphen something. Irish-American, Scots-American, Italian-American, German, Hispanic... Someone’s ancestral and cultures roots are seen as what’s part of ‘being American’. That’s why you often here stories about Americans who couldn’t point to Scotland on a map say “I’m Scottish... my family has a castle” nonsense. To them, they are Scottish. Just as their neighbours, the O’Donnell’s who have never been to Ireland and can name the last person born there, are Irish. To Europeans, they are all American. It all comes back to their respective revolutions and how their current republics came into being. So in my mind, Noah wasn’t saying that they weren’t French or trying to take any of that away. There’s no real right answer in my opinion. While Noah was obviously trying to celebrate the diversity of the French team, he perhaps should have been aware of how the joke would play in France. Excellent post. Plus Noah is African himself and was saying this in a satire show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said: Same as West Ham won the WC in 66! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) I think the whole multi-cultural aspect of this French win has been over-blown and amplified by those being selective and seeing what they want to see. For example, many people of an African background in France live in grim poverty and have a lack of access to jobs and services. The success of a tiny group of multi-millionaires makes no difference to their lives. If anything, it gives a false sense of the success of multi-culturalism in a country which has big problems with race relations, although French concepts of what it means to be French do seem to be shifting. In reference to a country that has seen riots involving young black men just recently, it is extremely patronising for middle-class white people to sit back and say "Great to see the blacks win, isn't it?". Also, France is a large country with a strong footballing heritage. Croatia is a very small country and one of the most ethnically homogeneous countries in Europe. Is their success a poke in the eye for multi-culturalism? I didn't see any Guardian opinion pieces celebrating that. I'm pro-immigration and generally pro-freedom of movement. I live outside my own country and have done for years. But I am anti-bullshit, and I hate the way people are trying to shoe-horn a very good football team's success into some nonsense political point. Edited July 21, 2018 by michael_bolton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 9 hours ago, part_time_jambo said: Playing Devils Advocate here, but if i were to say " I'm ****ing delighted that a team of predominantly white players won that tournament", I would be accused of being racist. If me being happy that a team of black players won a tournament on the soil of a white supremacist nation makes me racist, then hang me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Blackest team to have won it without doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will-i-am-a-jambo Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 I seem to recall there was similar chat about the French team that won in '98 and the players multi-cultural roots back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tian447 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 12 hours ago, part_time_jambo said: Playing Devils Advocate here, but if i were to say " I'm ****ing delighted that a team of predominantly white players won that tournament", I would be accused of being racist. Yes, but that would be because you would not be saying it in the same fullness as @Locky did. You have chosen to use only part of his comment (albeit in reverse) which undoubtedly changes the whole context of his post. What he said was excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H. Bonney Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Congratulations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAlim Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) Edited July 21, 2018 by BigAlim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juanjo15 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 5 hours ago, Locky said: If me being happy that a team of black players won a tournament on the soil of a white supremacist nation makes me racist, then hang me. You will be hoping a team of white Christian males win in 2022 in a nation like Qatar then right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 1 hour ago, BigAlim said: Cheers, I enjoyed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
151 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Juanjo15 said: You will be hoping a team of white Christian males win in 2022 in a nation like Qatar then right? Don't be daft! That would be racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocco_Jambo Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 "White supremacist nation" . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 On 20/07/2018 at 15:39, Morgan said: Momentum growing here over the ‘Africa won the World Cup’ comments at the start of the week. Apparently, 15 members of the French squad can find their roots in Africa. Ridiculous considering that they were all born in France (or so I’ve heard). Le football rentre à la maison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 10 hours ago, Juanjo15 said: You will be hoping a team of white Christian males win in 2022 in a nation like Qatar then right? Just anyone but Qatar would suit me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Rocco_Jambo said: "White supremacist nation" . Sorry, I meant to say loving nation welcome to all men and women of creed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocco_Jambo Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Locky said: Sorry, I meant to say loving nation welcome to all men and women of creed. Nah, you didn’t. You were just talking pish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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