Patience and Time

[jamtartan74]

We are winning the league this season and anyone who thinks differently can gtf. Probably win the the league cup as well, the Scottish cup can wait till the following season. 

[Kiwidoug]

44 minutes ago, jamtartan74 said:

We are winning the league this season and anyone who thinks differently can gtf. Probably win the the league cup as well, the Scottish cup can wait till the following season. 

If we can keep Lafferty and Naismith and bring Mitchell back, why not?

 

If Celtic were that great they wouldn't be losing in Pilrig or suffering 7 goal thrashings in Europe on a happily frequent basis.

 

Give us a Burley like start and if some of the new boys excel, anything's possible.

 

Treating away games like home games will be crucial.

 

Iceland mentality.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

There has been time and patience , a whole season was written off right at the start of last season, with a view to blooding young players and getting ready for this season. 

 

Results are expected, immediately. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

3 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

If we can keep Lafferty and Naismith and bring Mitchell back, why not?

 

If Celtic were that great they wouldn't be losing in Pilrig or suffering 7 goal thrashings in Europe on a happily frequent basis.

 

Give us a Burley like start and if some of the new boys excel, anything's possible.

 

Treating away games like home games will be crucial.

 

Iceland mentality.

Agree we gotta be more positive away from home , let the opposition worry about us and go and play with a freedom to entertain 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

13 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Get what you are saying but CL knows we have to hit the ground running.  We can't afford to take half a season.  His job is on the line and he knows it  

 

That said, I personally think we will surprise a lot of people next year.

 

correct

[oh ah grantona]

14 hours ago, Bauld said:

10 players in with more on the way. It's an impressive window but it is also another season where we are having to start over again.

 

We perhaps have a better core in place to build from this season with players like Berra who will let the new boys know exactly what is expected but it is still a drastic overhaul.

 

 

We need to be realistic about giving this team time to forge an understanding and become a solid unit. Some of these lads might hit the ground running but most will require time to settle into a new club, culture, country etc. It's going to be a massive change for some and even if they have the ability it might take some a while to be able to show it.

 

Hopefully, we will get off to a stormer and I'm absolutely buzzing to see the new team in competitive action. However should we stumble a bit I think we need to remain patient and back the team to find it's feet.

Unfortunately we don't have Time or Patience and that down to 2 awful years. CL has done majority of his business and the hard work starts today, we simply have to hit ground running for the clubs sake. He has no excuses, I can accept players taking time to click what I can't accept is the CL negative approach. I want a team set out to win & win well not get one and retreat into a shell yes maybe be a bit more cautious but not building a wall and holding on. 

 

Im optimistic about our squad, does seem a bit heavy in midfield and expect player to leave. We need a couple of really good well known players if possible 

 

Naismith & prob another wide man that appears not to be a gamble (that's hard to find tho) 

 

positive about season ahead and I'm not a CL fan and don't think I ever will be. If things are going wrong tho we can't wait & allowed time people will need to be removed asap  

[Escobar PHM]

14 hours ago, Bring Back Paulo Sergio said:

Ah here we go again. Lower than 4th Levein's job should be on the line. No buts no excuses.

Yeh I wondered when folk would realise that we're gambling heavily on a scattergun signing policy producing half a dozen decent players out of 12 and come out with the old,  'be patient, it  will take time to settle' pish.

 

Taking time to settle is an utter myth. If youre a good player and you're suited to the Scottish game, you 'settle' about 15 minutes into the first game. If you're not good enough or not suited to the Scottish game you're never going to 'settle'

 

Levein has had time. 1 wasted season so far and counting. He needs to hit the ground running right from the off. He knows this and has said it himself. If the team is still 'settling' come October, Levein wont be here. He knows it. We know it. The press know it. Ann Budge knows it.

[INNERLEITHEN HMFC 1874]

Was glad to see the back of last season but i have a really good feeling about this season.

Early signings and yep we do not know a lot about a few of them but the old gut feeling is there.

[WageThief]

38 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

Taking time to settle is an utter myth. If youre a good player and you're suited to the Scottish game, you 'settle' about 15 minutes into the first game. If you're not good enough or not suited to the Scottish game you're never going to 'settle'

 

You do realise this is total garbage, right?  SPH, a Scottish guy mind, settled into his game about 10 years after his first 15 minutes.  Flogel is another who took time to show his best.  Milinkovic took longer than 15 minutes to settle.  

 

It took Bergkamp 8 games to score for Arsenal.  About 638 minutes to settle.  But yeah just a myth.

[Jambo92]

The key is to find the right system for the team, i.e Olly Lee and Cochrane may not compliment each other in centre mid - thats what the friendlies are for and where Levein will earn his money.  From the start of the league season though we should be raring to go and I will be expecting us to do so.

[Rudy T]

It's not 10 players going into a starting line up. The core of last year's side remains and if Mitchell Milinkovic and Naismith return...even two of the three then possibly only 3 will start.

 

Of the new signings Edwards and Mulraney both have SPFL experience so it won't be a culture shock to them.

 

What 10 signings bring is competition for places...anyone not performing will be sat on their arse which is something we've lacked for a long time.

[Bauld]

1 hour ago, Escobar PHM said:

Yeh I wondered when folk would realise that we're gambling heavily on a scattergun signing policy producing half a dozen decent players out of 12 and come out with the old,  'be patient, it  will take time to settle' pish.

 

Taking time to settle is an utter myth. If youre a good player and you're suited to the Scottish game, you 'settle' about 15 minutes into the first game. If you're not good enough or not suited to the Scottish game you're never going to 'settle'

 

Levein has had time. 1 wasted season so far and counting. He needs to hit the ground running right from the off. He knows this and has said it himself. If the team is still 'settling' come October, Levein wont be here. He knows it. We know it. The press know it. Ann Budge knows it.

 

Congratulations. You've proven you know **** all about football. 

[Escobar PHM]

11 minutes ago, WageThief said:

 

You do realise this is total garbage, right?  SPH, a Scottish guy mind, settled into his game about 10 years after his first 15 minutes.  Flogel is another who took time to show his best.  Milinkovic took longer than 15 minutes to settle.  

 

It took Bergkamp 8 games to score for Arsenal.  About 638 minutes to settle.  But yeah just a myth.

Not true unfortunately

 

Hartley was decent right from the start when played on the right wing. Switched to centre mid, started to play with far better players, and became a stand out. Nothing to do with 'settling time'

Flogel was solid from day 1. Yes he had the odd form slump but he was clearly a good player who fitted in right from day 1.

 

Bergkamp, a world class player at his peak, had the misfortune to be managed by Rioch in year 1, who hadn't a sccoby how to use a player of such pedigree. As soon as Wenger came in Bergkamp was magnificent. Nothing to do with settling in, just wrongly used.

[Escobar PHM]

3 minutes ago, Bauld said:

 

Congratulations. You've proven you know **** all about football. 

Lafferty - Settled immediatly

Naismith - Same

Berra - same

Mcglaughlin - same

Skacel

Bednar

 

Seeing the pattern here ? Need I go on ?

[davemclaren]

I won't be shouting for his head if we don't kick in straight away in our league fixtures.  In the 85/86 season we got hammered early doors away to St. mirren iirc. We need to be showing better than last season by the end of the first round of fixtures though.

[Bungalow Bill]

3 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

Flogel was solid from day 1. Yes he had the odd form slump but he was clearly a good player who fitted in right from day 1.

 

Completely disagree with this. After Flogel's debut he moved to the reserves for an extended spell as he wasn't 'fitting in' to Scottish football.

 

However, I think if we're signing all these players, we should be aiming for them to hit the ground running.

[Escobar PHM]

6 minutes ago, Apache Mal said:

 

Completely disagree with this. After Flogel's debut he moved to the reserves for an extended spell as he wasn't 'fitting in' to Scottish football.

 

However, I think if we're signing all these players, we should be aiming for them to hit the ground running.

Flogel made 36 first team appearances in his first season. His problem was a positional one ( he was a full back we tried to use in midfield). Nothing to do with 'settling'

[Marvin]

16 hours ago, John Findlay said:

I agree too. Alas modern football and modern football supporters don't. 

 

Thats because we live in a world that craves instant success. Unfortunately that costs a lot of money which we don't necessary have. 

[Marvin]

15 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I won't be shouting for his head if we don't kick in straight away in our league fixtures.  In the 85/86 season we got hammered early doors away to St. mirren iirc. We need to be showing better than last season by the end of the first round of fixtures though.

 

The first few games were painful to watch. 

[Nookie Bear]

We will have played 5 friendlies and 4 Betfred games before our league campaign kicks off so i am confident any issues around settling in will have been resolved by then and anyone found struggling will be taking time out on the bench or reserves until they find their feet.

 

No excuses at all for not being ready for Hamilton away.

[Bungalow Bill]

7 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

Flogel made 36 first team appearances in his first season. His problem was a positional one ( he was a full back we tried to use in midfield). Nothing to do with 'settling'

 

29 League games v Fulton, McCann and Weir's 36.

 

36 in total v the same 3 players playing 43.

 

Seriously, Flogel didn't hit the ground running. He was in the reserves to get up to speed, not to find his best position.

[westbow]

2 minutes ago, Marvin said:

 

The first few games were painful to watch. 

As was the previous season and the latter half of the one before that.

[Cruyff Turn]

9 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

Flogel made 36 first team appearances in his first season. His problem was a positional one ( he was a full back we tried to use in midfield). Nothing to do with 'settling'

Half of them off the bench though. 

I remember him scoring on his debut v Aberdeen, but it wasn't until the return fixture at Pittodrie that we seen him at his brilliant best. He said it himself today in the Sun that it took him time to get used to the tempo here.

 

Tam Flogel was never a full back either, he may have finished his career there but he was a midfielder when he came to Hearts.

[sairyinthat]

I want whatever team we put up for games to compete,I want every team in the league crapping themselves when we come calling or when they visit Tynecastle.

[busby1985]

The “Time and patience” mentality has killed us for the past 2 and a bit seasons. This new look side has to hit the ground running and click instantly or there will be calls for Levein to be gone before we even kick a ball in anger. The signings have been either total unknowns or journey men SPFL players which haven’t drummed up any sort of buzz amongst the support, start slow in the pre season friendlies and betfred cup and the storm clouds that haven’t really disappeared from last season will be back. Not trying to kill the mood and I am 100% in the “new season, new start” camp but I’ve been around the block too much with hearts to pretend that everything is rosey. We have a manager that divides the fans and when that is the case we are always 1 or 2 results away from crisis. This team won’t get time or patience as both have been exhausted with the Cathro experiment, the “away” game situation last year and the two terrible seasons. As we stand we are behind Celtic, rangers, hibs, Aberdeen and Killie. If we don’t show something instantly that we are capable of going above at least two of those 5 teams we will be hearing calls for the club to act by September. Time and patience is something we don’t have I am afraid. I understand the sentiment but it won’t happen. 

[Escobar PHM]

31 minutes ago, Apache Mal said:

 

29 League games v Fulton, McCann and Weir's 36.

 

36 in total v the same 3 players playing 43.

 

Seriously, Flogel didn't hit the ground running. He was in the reserves to get up to speed, not to find his best position.

Not much point arguing about individual players. The point here is we've got virtually a new team, or at least half a new team of starters. One or two players taking a few games to 'settle' we can handle. We've got 9 games arranged before the league campaign starts so all 'settling' needs to be done before that starts. The entire team suffering at the start of the league season and for some indeterminable time because of 'settling in' time and poor results being attributed to that, is utterly unacceptable this time round, given the last 2 years.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Escobar PHM

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

I believe the groundwork was done this past season. The basis of design is in place, we are now adding or building upon it with experienced back up/competition.

 

If we were going with 10 Under 20's in the squad, yeah, but that shouldn't be more than 4 at most this time round. And that would be an extreme I think 4. No reason why this team should not be functioning well by the end of the Betfred Group games

[Bungalow Bill]

5 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

Not much point arguing about individual players. The point here is we've got virtually a new team, or at least half a new team of starters. One or two players taking a few games to 'settle' we can handle. We've got 9 games arranged before the league campaign starts so all 'settling' needs to be done before that starts. The entire team suffering at the start of the league season and for some indeterminable time because of 'settling in' time and poor results being attributed to that, is utterly unacceptable this time round, given the last 2 years.

Agree with all of that. 

[Haken]

I kind of agree with both sides of this debate.  These are all Levein's signings and he's got them in early to get a full pre-season done.  He needs to get a team that can hit the ground running, starting with the league stages of the League Cup.  We will rightly expect to emerge from that group in first place, and I'm expecting us to go to Hamilton and pick up three points in the league.  But the team will need time to improve and to get to know each others' styles on the park.  So I'm hoping we'll not boo every time a pass goes into an empty space or is overhit.

 

[Bauld]

8 hours ago, Escobar PHM said:

Lafferty - Settled immediatly

Naismith - Same

Berra - same

Mcglaughlin - same

Skacel

Bednar

 

Seeing the pattern here ? Need I go on ?

 

You've managed to name 6 out of hundreds.

 

Berra was previously a hearts player. 

 

Skacel was originally signed as a left back and only hit form when moved forward.

 

Most of them are strikers and are judged only on goals not on actual play. Naismith being quote ineffective until he got his fitness and settled into the team. 

 

Jon is a goalkeeper, he doesn't need to gel with the squad to be a good shot stopper but it did help to develop a bond with his defence.

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Bauld said:

 

You've managed to name 6 out of hundreds.

 

Berra was previously a hearts player. 

 

Skacel was originally signed as a left back and only hit form when moved forward.

 

Most of them are strikers and are judged only on goals not on actual play. Naismith being quote ineffective until he got his fitness and settled into the team. 

 

Jon is a goalkeeper, he doesn't need to gel with the squad to be a good shot stopper but it did help to develop a bond with his defence.

That's not how I remember it. He scored in each of his first 7 games for us didn't he?

[andi17]

17 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Apart from Zlamal and Haring they are all native English speakers, Scotsmen, Irishmen, Aussies and Englishmen, should be a good team spirit and loads of bants. 

 

I think Leveins done the right thing by getting loads in and then will probably clear the decks. No, point in fannying about, we've been below par, the squads been a shambles and hopefully it won't need much more done to it in future windows. 

 

Plenty of games and time to work on shape how we play etc...  So I can't see any problems in our first 10 league games, we should be flying by then.

 

I 'm quite excited to watch us develop tbh. The 2005/06 under Burley was put together in a few weeks, all played together vs Middlesbrough and then preceded to take the piss for the first 7 or 8 games.

 

This is were i'm at.

[Bazzas right boot]

Too many on here can't wait to let rip into CL and his players.. 

 

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

8 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

Too many on here can't wait to let rip into CL and his players.. 

 

 

Oh here we go. Done to death but ripping into CL is not having a go at the players or the club. You can't seem to ever separate CL from the club. You are completely under his spell. You should show more positivity mate. Very negative attitude - defending mediocrity like it's your daughter's virginity. Chin up. You could also be accused of harming the club with your negative attitude - your need to cling to that safety blanket of underachievement will keep the club back. Show more positivity!

[Nookie Bear]

9 hours ago, Bauld said:

 

Congratulations. You've proven you know **** all about football. 

 

See when you come out with stuff like that ^^^...

 

41 minutes ago, Bauld said:

 

 

Skacel was originally signed as a left back and only hit form when moved forward.

 

 

...maybe don't follow it up with this ^^^

[shaun.lawson]

I think the OP's been misunderstood by some. He's not saying "we have to expect mediocrity". He's saying it takes time for any side to gel - which is correct. Who could argue it isn't?

 

We're making so many changes that it's bound for them to take a bit of time for them to bed in. That doesn't alter next season's targets at all: top 4 and at least one Cup semi-final are a minimum objective. Let's see how things look at the end of October - and the thing about this league is, results for a club our size should more or less take care of themselves if we're heading in the right direction.

[Bazzas right boot]

4 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

Oh here we go. Done to death but ripping into CL is not having a go at the players or the club. You can't seem to ever separate CL from the club. You are completely under his spell. You should show more positivity mate. Very negative attitude - defending mediocrity like it's your daughter's virginity. Chin up. You could also be accused of harming the club with your negative attitude - your need to cling to that safety blanket of underachievement will keep the club back. Show more positivity!

 

My daughter is 3, so even although you had no idea, it's a pretty bad analogy to do online. 

 

Negative attitude? 

 

Nothing but positivity from me, I understand things take time, I also will support most if not all who represent HMFC and give everyone a chance. 

 

CL is more Hearts than you or me, so he deserves a chance to get things back on track- and he will, and folk like Stewart and the doom mongers on here will be eating more humble pie than normal. 

[shaun.lawson]

5 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

See when you come out with stuff like that ^^^...

 

 

...maybe don't follow it up with this ^^^

 

     

[shaun.lawson]

1 minute ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

CL is more Hearts than you or me, so he deserves a chance to get things back on track

 

I've no problem with giving him time, but by heck is this a ridiculous attitude. It's like saying "if you cut him, he bleeds maroon". And it's no different from fans of their clubs droning on about the 'Celtic way', 'Rangers way' or 'Hibs way'. 

 

CL will be judged on results like any other manager in the game. If results are good, the fans will be happy. If results are bad, the fans will not be happy. Anything else is just stuff and nonsense.

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

I've no problem with giving him time, but by heck is this a ridiculous attitude. It's like saying "if you cut him, he bleeds maroon". And it's no different from fans of their clubs droning on about the 'Celtic way', 'Rangers way' or 'Hibs way'. 

 

CL will be judged on results like any other manager in the game. If results are good, the fans will be happy. If results are bad, the fans will not be happy. Anything else is just stuff and nonsense.

 

 

He will be judged on results. 

 

I will also judge him on said results when the team is his. 

 

Very fair and imo, practical. 

 

My position hasn't changed on this.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

7 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

My daughter is 3, so even although you had no idea, it's a pretty bad analogy to do online. 

 

Negative attitude? 

 

Nothing but positivity from me, I understand things take time, I also will support most if not all who represent HMFC and give everyone a chance. 

 

CL is more Hearts than you or me, so he deserves a chance to get things back on track- and he will, and folk like Stewart and the doom mongers on here will be eating more humble pie than normal. 

 

Just joking around. Playing on the whole negative/positive thing. 

 

Also, just so it's crystal clear, that was clearly an analogy in the abstract. I'm a bit surprised anybody would take that to mean I was talking about their actual family. Obviously I wasn't and no offense intended at all. 

[Nookie Bear]

16 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

 

CL is more Hearts than you or me.

 

Is he? Really?

[CMc]

We have been very short on bodies for a long time. 

 

Since budgement day, we’ve relied on lots of academy players with very little in the way of competent reserves and competition for places. 

 

Last season, we went all the way down to playing a large number of 16 year olds - many of whom look like great prospects, but who have to be seen as the youngest viable players we have. 

 

We obviously needed a lot of bodies in, especially in midfield. 

 

It looks like we’ve signed a few for now, a bunch for the mid-term and a few long term projects. 

 

That seems really sensible. We’d picked all the cherries the youth team had. They need time and space to grow. 

 

We had FA in the 20-24 age group (because they all got blooded at 18 and accelerated their trajectory in whichever direction). It is smart to correct this and avoid the same with the current crop. 

 

We also suffered hugely from continued turnover. 

 

Whilst this might look like more of the same, I actually think it’s the opposite. I think CL is trying to build a core of guys who will be around for a while - our existent 30 YOs aren’t going be around for ever, and the kids at 3-4 years away from being regulars. 

 

Twin-tracking the first team and the squad makes sense. 

 

I won’t be going radge if all the new lads don’t light up the league straight away. 

 

[Bauld]

33 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

See when you come out with stuff like that ^^^...

 

 

...maybe don't follow it up with this ^^^

 

It's true. When he went south they also tried to use him as a left back.

 

 

[Elmore]

1 minute ago, Bauld said:

 

It's true. When he went south they also tried to use him as a left back.

 

 

I remember being surprised when Southampton played him there.  

[sandylejambo]

it's not about the manager, its about me ,I have had two season in a row that have been finished almost before they began, I'm not having another one, they had better hit the ground running because I'm still F****** fuming about the shit I paid for, it's like Hearts where the WISH shop of the SPFL

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, sandylejambo said:

it's not about the manager, its about me ,I have had two season in a row that have been finished almost before they began, I'm not having another one, they had better hit the ground running because I'm still F****** fuming about the shit I paid for, it's like Hearts where the WISH shop of the SPFL

 

 

There is a little truth to that. 

 

We do need to hit the ground running, the 1st team needs to be priority now. 

 

41 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

I've no problem with giving him time, but by heck is this a ridiculous attitude. It's like saying "if you cut him, he bleeds maroon". And it's no different from fans of their clubs droning on about the 'Celtic way', 'Rangers way' or 'Hibs way'. 

 

CL will be judged on results like any other manager in the game. If results are good, the fans will be happy. If results are bad, the fans will not be happy. Anything else is just stuff and nonsense.

 

 

He will be judged on results. 

 

I will also judge him on said results when the team is his. 

 

Very fair and imo, practical. 

 

My position hasn't changed on this.

[Nookie Bear]

27 minutes ago, Bauld said:

 

It's true. 

 

 

 

You said he was signed as a left back but only hit form when moved forward. 

 

Did he play left back on his debut? Pre season?

 

Am I missing something here?

[Doc Rob]

I’m feeling quite excited for the new season. I may not know a lot about the players we have signed, but Levein was a good judge of a player in his first stint as manager, and I like the look of a fair few of the signings. I do particularly like that we got most of our business done early and the team has a whole pre-season together.

 

We may or may not hit the ground running, but I think overall we will be better than we were last season.

 

Last year Levein was playing with Cathro’s team. If we are useless this year - fine, that’s all on CL. He deserves to show what he can do with his own team though.

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Bauld said:

 

It's true. When he went south they also tried to use him as a left back.

 

 

It's not true, we signed Fyssas as left back and Rudi as left midfield. Rudi played left midfield from day one with us and scored in his first 7 (IIRC) league games. He hit form straight away, not after playing left back for a while then getting moved.