Development League games this week

[Simmo]

Very good news about the young lads great spell.  A great pity that the anti-Levein numpties and nay-sayers on JKB won't read this thread and certainly won't give Craig any credit for having anything to do with this success for the Academy !!!

[Funtime Jambo]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

It was a funny sort of a game with neither side capable of imposing themselves on the other.  Hearts lacked the fluency that they had  on Monday. 

 

Chances were at a premium throughout, but Mason did bring off a couple of excellent saves in the second half. 

 

Hearts goals were both down to Currie's quick thinking, first catching a Killie defender dallying on the ball and was fouled as he nicked the ball away from him close to goal. It was a clear penalty and Morrison struck it firmly into the corner of the net.  His second came from a throw-in on the left with an excellent first touch that allowed him to spin away from his marker towards goal. When no-one moved to close him down he fired a low shot into the net from 20 yards with the keeper rooted to the spot.

 

There were a number of decent performances, although no individual stood out.

 

There was also a late debut for 14 year old Leon Watson who come on as a sub.

 

 

I thought Kilmarnock were a far better team than Falkirk were on Monday and the lads gave a great team performance 

[Escobar PHM]

7 minutes ago, Simmo said:

Very good news about the young lads great spell.  A great pity that the anti-Levein numpties and nay-sayers on JKB won't read this thread and certainly won't give Craig any credit for having anything to do with this success for the Academy !!!

On the contrary its the one thing he consistently gets credit for, even though there is significant input from others that have turned the thing around, certainly in  terms of the results.

We're yet to see a breakthrough from the academy secure a solid first team spot for himself but I'm sure its only a matter of time and we've a couple very nearly there in terms of being first picks. Very good work in progress at the age levels. Anyone saying differently just doesn't pay any attention to that side of the club.

[Mikey1874]

Hearts match report

 

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/6659

[wavydavy]

54 minutes ago, Simmo said:

Very good news about the young lads great spell.  A great pity that the anti-Levein numpties and nay-sayers on JKB won't read this thread and certainly won't give Craig any credit for having anything to do with this success for the Academy !!!

 

At the end of ther day although it's always nice to be at the top of any league for this sort of age group it is more about developing the younger players and bringning them through to the first team.

 

To an extent CL was forced into that this season due to a lack of strength in depth withinh his squad adn some bad injuries.

 

I am no CL lover of his footballing tactics particularly away from home but I appreciate what has happened with the youth set up in the last few years and he deserves credit for it.

 

But before anyone gets carried away we only start getting the real rewards when guys like Cochrane, Currie, Keena etc start playing every week and attracting attention from much bigger clubs and we can sell them on for decent profit.

 

Until that happens it really doesn't count for that much being 2nd in the Under 20's league.

[Mikey1874]

8 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

At the end of ther day although it's always nice to be at the top of any league for this sort of age group it is more about developing the younger players and bringning them through to the first team.

 

To an extent CL was forced into that this season due to a lack of strength in depth withinh his squad adn some bad injuries.

 

I am no CL lover of his footballing tactics particularly away from home but I appreciate what has happened with the youth set up in the last few years and he deserves credit for it.

 

But before anyone gets carried away we only start getting the real rewards when guys like Cochrane, Currie, Keena etc start playing every week and attracting attention from much bigger clubs and we can sell them on for decent profit.

 

Until that happens it really doesn't count for that much being 2nd in the Under 20's league.

 

An example here of league and Cup winners

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-youth-cup-class-of-2009-where-are-they-now-1-4729686

 

We want more than a Callum Booth and a David Wotherspoon. 

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Hearts are nòw comfirmed as finishing at least third in the league.

 

A draw final game with Celtic is enough for second. Game is scheduled for Monday 1pm at Lennoxtown training centre. 

 

League table updated

 

https://spfl.co.uk/development-league/

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, Escobar PHM said:

On the contrary its the one thing he consistently gets credit for, even though there is significant input from others that have turned the thing around, certainly in  terms of the results.

We're yet to see a breakthrough from the academy secure a solid first team spot for himself but I'm sure its only a matter of time and we've a couple very nearly there in terms of being first picks. Very good work in progress at the age levels. Anyone saying differently just doesn't pay any attention to that side of the club.

2

I think I'm starting to get the hang of this.  When things go right CL gets significant input from others but when things don't work out he's solely accountable.

Am I doing this right at last?

[brownkg]

so I went to Ochilview for 1pm today luckily i had other stuff to do there

 

[jambo19]

Results can be misleading so for those who attend the games, what are the thoughts on Andy Kirk? I remember when he joined there were a few doubting him and saying jobs for boys etc. 

Squad consistency with boys on loan, playing lads a few ages up and youth players being in the first team must be pretty challenging but he looks to he doing a good job. Some good comeback wins too and pushing for 2nd. 

[Kiwidoug]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

An example here of league and Cup winners

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-youth-cup-class-of-2009-where-are-they-now-1-4729686

 

We want more than a Callum Booth and a David Wotherspoon. 

Further evidence if you get two decent players from these teams you've done really well.  Happily, Hibs got none.

[Famous 1874]

Very good to see the Under 20’s finishing the season strongly. Hopefully a few of these lads will go on to be regular starters for the first team in the future. A lot of

promising players there.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

A point some may have missed.  This bunch of lads lost its perceived best talent to the first team regularly through the season and often played against teams much older.

 

No mean achievement regardless of the future 

[Footballfirst]

57 minutes ago, jambo19 said:

Results can be misleading so for those who attend the games, what are the thoughts on Andy Kirk? I remember when he joined there were a few doubting him and saying jobs for boys etc. 

Squad consistency with boys on loan, playing lads a few ages up and youth players being in the first team must be pretty challenging but he looks to he doing a good job. Some good comeback wins too and pushing for 2nd. 

 

It's a difficult role, in that he can only field a side from what's left after CL decides who he needs for the the first team squad, or who needs game time.  On some occasions it has meant arranging time off school for some of the younger ones.  In addition some "loan" players can be available and others not.

 

I do think that CL has been over cautious wrapping players in cotton wool for the first team, while denying them game time by leaving them on the bench, or only giving them 10 minutes.  We have made limited use of overage players, with typically only one or two playing any particular game.

 

With those constraints I think he has done a decent job, although there have been games where you wonder if you are watching the same team. Sometimes it's a high tempo pressing game, while in others it's been a much more defensive approach.  Simple things like pulling everyone back for corners or free kicks seem to vary on a game to game basis.  Some of that will be down to the opposition's approach of course, but from the games I've seen, I think the players respond better to a more attacking approach.  

 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

11 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

It's a difficult role, in that he can only field a side from what's left after CL decides who he needs for the the first team squad, or who needs game time.  On some occasions it has meant arranging time off school for some of the younger ones.  In addition some "loan" players can be available and others not.

 

I do think that CL has been over cautious wrapping players in cotton wool for the first team, while denying them game time by leaving them on the bench, or only giving them 10 minutes.  We have made limited use of overage players, with typically only one or two playing any particular game.

 

With those constraints I think he has done a decent job, although there have been games where you wonder if you are watching the same team. Sometimes it's a high tempo pressing game, while in others it's been a much more defensive approach.  Simple things like pulling everyone back for corners or free kicks seem to vary on a game to game basis.  Some of that will be down to the opposition's approach of course, but from the games I've seen, I think the players respond better to a more attacking approach.  

 

 

Is variety not part of the education?

 

One of the best coaches I had very rarely played players in one position for example.  Reason to learn others role. How to respond and help in variables. 

 

I always thought that was how under age teams would operate but I have zero experience of pro football only juniors 

[pattythejambo]

9 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Jay Sandison out for 3 months with a dislocated knee cap after Monday's game.

 

Sad news , speedy recovery kid you’ll come back stronger.

[Escobar PHM]

6 hours ago, JamboAl said:

I think I'm starting to get the hang of this.  When things go right CL gets significant input from others but when things don't work out he's solely accountable.

Am I doing this right at last?

He's obviously running a decent sub-department up there, assisted by several others under him. He's running a shambles in the first team department, not really being helped much by several others under him. As the DOF he is solely accountable for both. There now, that wasnt too difficult to grasp was it

Edited April 26, 2018 by Escobar PHM

[soonbe110]

13 hours ago, JamboAl said:

I think I'm starting to get the hang of this.  When things go right CL gets significant input from others but when things don't work out he's solely accountable.

Am I doing this right at last?

Spot on. 

[JamboAl]

7 hours ago, Escobar PHM said:

He's obviously running a decent sub-department up there, assisted by several others under him. He's running a shambles in the first team department, not really being helped much by several others under him. As the DOF he is solely accountable for both. There now, that wasnt too difficult to grasp was it

What is easy to grasp is your determination to give him as little credit as possible.

[Escobar PHM]

1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

What is easy to grasp is your determination to give him as little credit as possible.

Overall he is not worthy of much credit so he doesn’t get much. The age levels is doing okay. Much better in fact. He gets credit for that. Credit has to be earned. If and when he fixes the shambles that is his core position now, he’ll get credit. 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Escobar PHM said:

Overall he is not worthy of much credit so he doesn’t get much. The age levels is doing okay. Much better in fact. He gets credit for that. Credit has to be earned. If and when he fixes the shambles that is his core position now, he’ll get credit. 

Don't try to fudge the issue which is

When we are doing well someone else is helping him

When we are doing badly he is solely accountable.

Any credit you give is given grudgingly with your teeth clenched.

[Escobar PHM]

34 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Don't try to fudge the issue which is

When we are doing well someone else is helping him

When we are doing badly he is solely accountable.

Any credit you give is given grudgingly with your teeth clenched.

Christ do I have to spell it out for you. He gets credit for the unders and no credit whatsoever for the first team. By no means does his revamp of the academy make up for the shitfest he has overseen with the first team.  Pick another battle mate. You’ve lost again. See you next time you try and fail to jump all over me

[Mart_HMFC]

Last game is at Lennoxtown on Monday 2pm kick off if folks fancy going along and cheering the young guns on

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Escobar PHM said:

Christ do I have to spell it out for you. He gets credit for the unders and no credit whatsoever for the first team. By no means does his revamp of the academy make up for the shitfest he has overseen with the first team.  Pick another battle mate. You’ve lost again. See you next time you try and fail to jump all over me

Are you that thick or you do not understand what you are saying?

Your praise for CL comes with the qualification "with the help of others" but others are NEVER mentioned when you are liberal with your criticism.

No one is trying to jump over you  - just asking for balance in your posts without your emotional nonsense like the use of the word "shambolic" or the phrase "pick another battle"

Just be fair and balanced!

[Escobar PHM]

13 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Are you that thick or you do not understand what you are saying?

Your praise for CL comes with the qualification "with the help of others" but others are NEVER mentioned when you are liberal with your criticism.

No one is trying to jump over you  - just asking for balance in your posts without your emotional nonsense like the use of the word "shambolic" or the phrase "pick another battle"

Just be fair and balanced!

You don’t get to decide the style of my posts or the content or the slant they have.   You can agree or disagree with my posts. clearly you disagree. I don’t need educating or lecturing in forum posting from the likes of you

[wavydavy]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Don't try to fudge the issue which is

When we are doing well someone else is helping him

When we are doing badly he is solely accountable.

Any credit you give is given grudgingly with your teeth clenched.

 

That's what happens when you are the Boss, you win some you lose some. I am sure CL is thick skinned enough to not require you to defend him constantly.

[JamboAl]

16 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

ingu don’t get to decide the style of my posts or the content or the slant they have.   You can agree or disagree with my posts. clearly you disagree. I don’t need educating or lecturing in forum posting from the likes of you

I'm only asking you for even-handed comments.  Is that a problem?

Edited April 26, 2018 by JamboAl

[JamboAl]

5 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

That's what happens when you are the Boss, you win some you lose some. I am sure CL is thick skinned enough to not require you to defend him constantly.

What was it I said that actually defended him?

I merely remarked on the poster's apparent inability to make even-handed comments.  

This is one of the problems with the roasters: if you don't 100% agree with them they proceed as though you had said the polar opposite.

[wavydavy]

Just now, JamboAl said:

What was it I said that actually defended him?

I merely remarked on the poster's apparent inability to make even-handed comments.  

This is one of the problems with the roasters: if you don't 100% agree with them they proceed as though you had said the polar opposite.

 

Well you will know all about that then.

[Escobar PHM]

29 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I'm only asking you for even-handed comments.  Is that a problem?

It’s a problem in that my comments can’t be censored or restricted by the likes of you. Someone who spends his day on here consistently defending the indefensible and putting down any criticism of Levein. You don’t like my views or my posting style or my supposed bias ?Easy solution to that. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Escobar PHM

[wavydavy]

15 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

It’s a problem in that my comments can’t be censored or restricted by the likes of you. Someone who spends his day on here consistently defending the indefensible and putting down any criticism of Levein. You don’t like my views or my posting style or my supposed bias ?Easy solution to that. 

 

He'll come back looking for you to qualify that statement with evidence. 

[JamboAl]

23 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

It’s a problem in that my comments can’t be censored or restricted by the likes of you. Someone who spends his day on here consistently defending the indefensible and putting down any criticism of Levein. You don’t like my views or my posting style or my supposed bias ?Easy solution to that. 

No one is trying to censor your comments.  Just pointing out the imbalance in your views.

[JamboAl]

44 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Well you will know all about that then.

I thought for a second you were going to answer the question I asked.

[Escobar PHM]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

No one is trying to censor your comments.  Just pointing out the imbalance in your views.

Fine. Duly noted. Crumpled up and chucked in the bin

[JamboAl]

2 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

Fine. Duly noted. Crumpled up and chucked in the bin

It's about time you chucked your (negative) views in the bin.  Well done.

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

I thought for a second you were going to answer the question I asked.

 

When you respond to others with comments such as this.

 

Are you that thick or you do not understand what you are saying? Your praise for CL comes with the qualification "with the help of others" but others are NEVER mentioned when you are liberal with your criticism. No one is trying to jump over you - just asking for balance in your posts without your emotional nonsense like the use of the word "shambolic" or the phrase "pick another battle" Just be fair and balanced!

 

Then refer to anyone who does not agree with your version of things as "roasters" is hardly forming a constructive argument.

 

 

 

 

[JamboAl]

7 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

When you respond to others with comments such as this.

 

Are you that thick or you do not understand what you are saying? Your praise for CL comes with the qualification "with the help of others" but others are NEVER mentioned when you are liberal with your criticism. No one is trying to jump over you - just asking for balance in your posts without your emotional nonsense like the use of the word "shambolic" or the phrase "pick another battle" Just be fair and balanced!

 

Then refer to anyone who does not agree with your version of things as "roasters" is hardly forming a constructive argument.

 

 

 

 

I was not responding to you.  I was responding to a poster who said "Christ do I have to spell it out for you" and replied with added interest.  Nowt really to do with you.

What about answering my question and stop trying to avoid it with diversions .

 

[Mart_HMFC]

how bout everyone just gets on the topic instead of a typical slanging match and focus on the fact our U20s have done brilliantly and we should have some support for them on Monday .........whos going 

 

[hhgh1973]

23 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

The U20s have fairly  turned round their season from an iffy start.  They have won 13 of their last 15 league games, losing only to Aberdeen and Hibs.  Had the Hibs score been reversed then Hearts would have won the league with a win in their last game.

 

I think Aberdeen had 6 or 7 first team squad players involved when we lost to them, Hibs game at 2-2 could have went either way, defensively we were shocking in that game (maybe the occasion got to us). I would hazard a guess that over the course of the season we have had by far the youngest 20s squad playing week in and out. My rational for this is that every 1 of our 2001's play for the 20s or first team. Rangers, Celtic, Dundee etc have zero 2001's in their 20s, Aberdeen a couple and Hibs, Motherwell, Hamilton have had 1 or 2 who are on the bench at best. FF what do you think, is my thinking right?

[wavydavy]

3 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I was not responding to you.  I was responding to a poster who said "Christ do I have to spell it out for you" and replied with added interest.  Nowt really to do with you.

What about answering my question and stop trying to avoid it with diversions .

 

 

My observations are about your general posts and that is what my previous comment was relating to.

 

Any post on a thread is there for all to read so I think any member is entitled to add an opinion or comment whether you chose to make it personal or not.

 

My original post was suggesting that you tend to defend CL by coming out with remarks such as this below.

 

Any credit you give is given grudgingly with your teeth clenched.

 

How on earth would you know this to be true. It's what you want to believe and you seem to have this trait that you are always the one who is correct and anyone who dares to disagree is "thick" or  a "roaster".

or you accuse them of diversionary tactics.

 

This is a football forum where fans give their opinions and obviously we don't all have the same ones but that does not give you the right to try and be demeaning towards others.

 

 

[JamboAl]

37 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

My observations are about your general posts and that is what my previous comment was relating to.

 

Any post on a thread is there for all to read so I think any member is entitled to add an opinion or comment whether you chose to make it personal or not.

 

My original post was suggesting that you tend to defend CL by coming out with remarks such as this below.

 

Any credit you give is given grudgingly with your teeth clenched.

 

How on earth would you know this to be true. It's what you want to believe and you seem to have this trait that you are always the one who is correct and anyone who dares to disagree is "thick" or  a "roaster".

or you accuse them of diversionary tactics.

 

This is a football forum where fans give their opinions and obviously we don't all have the same ones but that does not give you the right to try and be demeaning towards others.

 

 

Well that's me told. The question I asked did not relate to your observations which are generally negative anyway. By saying credit is given grudgingly is a quantum leap from defending him.

The poster gave praise with a qualification and makes no such qualification when criticising.

Now I'll ask you again

What was it I said that actually defended him?

PS - For the benefit of other posters if you wish to conduct a personal vendetta with me I'll be happy to do it via PMs

[Footballfirst]

44 minutes ago, hhgh1973 said:

 

I think Aberdeen had 6 or 7 first team squad players involved when we lost to them, Hibs game at 2-2 could have went either way, defensively we were shocking in that game (maybe the occasion got to us). I would hazard a guess that over the course of the season we have had by far the youngest 20s squad playing week in and out. My rational for this is that every 1 of our 2001's play for the 20s or first team. Rangers, Celtic, Dundee etc have zero 2001's in their 20s, Aberdeen a couple and Hibs, Motherwell, Hamilton have had 1 or 2 who are on the bench at best. FF what do you think, is my thinking right?

 

We have made different approaches for specific games, e.g. in the first game against Hibs we had McLaughlin, Godinho, Buaben, Beith and Zanatta all as overage players, in addition to Brandon, Currie and Moore with first team experience.

 

However,  we have probably played more 2000+ kids than most other teams.  This week was a good example when we had the youngsters from the first team squad playing in the first game (Cochrane, McDonald, Henderson and Hamilton), then in the second game we relied on the slightly older ones who are currently playing first SPFL football on loan (Baur, Morrison, Petkov and Keena). 

[SUTOL]

2 hours ago, JamboAl said:

 

 

2 hours ago, Escobar PHM said:

 

 

1 hour ago, wavydavy said:

 

 

 

[Escobar PHM]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

 

PS - For the benefit of other posters if you wish to conduct a personal vendetta with me I'll be happy to do it via PMs

I am also available via PM for your personal vendetta. However I’m just as happy making you look foolish in public as I am in private. Not that you need any help with that. As others have said, you’re known for your abrasive attitude and demeaning remarks at anyone and everyone not towing your self dictated party line. That’s you told twice. Might be something in it don’t you think ?

[wavydavy]

5 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Well that's me told. The question I asked did not relate to your observations which are generally negative anyway. By saying credit is given grudgingly is a quantum leap from defending him.

The poster gave praise with a qualification and makes no such qualification when criticising.

Now I'll ask you again

What was it I said that actually defended him?

PS - For the benefit of other posters if you wish to conduct a personal vendetta with me I'll be happy to do it via PMs

 

If you haven't got the gist of what I am putting over then I am not going to say any more about it.

 

I have no desire to communicate with you via PM's nor do I have a  personal vendetta against you or anyone else on here.

 

Anything I have to say is open and available for all to see if they so wish.

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Escobar PHM said:

I am also available via PM for your personal vendetta. However I’m just as happy making you look foolish in public as I am in private. Not that you need any help with that. As others have said, you’re known for your abrasive attitude and demeaning remarks at anyone and everyone not towing your self dictated party line. That’s you told twice. Might be something in it don’t you think ?

3

 

Not when it comes from two posters who are consistently negative towards the club.

Do you mean toeing?

[RobNox]

On 4/25/2018 at 15:35, SUTOL said:

 

Martin did have a good game. First half at least. He was a bit quieter in the second half. 

 

He got about the park, put in tackles and made some nice simple passes. Good effort on goal as well. 

He also talked a lot to his team-mates and didn't try and act the big man as other senior pro's have done before. 

 

Good goal from Currie, good to see him back playing and Morrison stuck his penalty away well. 

 

 

Well done the U20's.  

 

Interesting.  Cochrane singled him out for credit recently, for the encouragement he gives to Harry and other youngsters.  Credit to Martin for showing such a good attitude, given he must be disappointed at being more or less frozen out of the first team.  A lesser player might have thrown a strop, or looked down on the youngsters.

[Footballfirst]

The Youth Cup final is being streamed live (Aberdeen v Hibs)

 

1-0 to Aberdeen after 25 mins.

 

 

[argyjambo]

9 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The Youth Cup final is being streamed live (Aberdeen v Hibs)

 

1-0 to Aberdeen after 25 mins.

 

 

Much appreciated FF, my future son in law is reffing this game, & my son covering the game for the EEN.

[Footballfirst]

8 minutes ago, argyjambo said:

Much appreciated FF, my future son in law is reffing this game, & my son covering the game for the EEN.

 

I know the ref's dad quite well, as will a lot of Jambos.