Brian Clough

[Nookie Bear]

2 hours ago, Elmore said:

Just heard john McGovern singing AC/ DC in the style of Brian Clough. Second time I've heard it and still worth hearing. He does 'a whole lot of Rosie'. Worth a listen. 

 

Randomly, McGovern is an AC/DC obsessive. 

[DavieG]

19 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

Whit, What pressmen?  He was an erse but none of the Scottish press pack would have the minerals to do anything about Barnes being lamped.

The newspaper reporters some of whom were bigger then McLean hence him hiding away and the police having to be called.

 

Then there was the player whom McLean was accused of bullying and whose Dad arrived and gave McLean a serious kicking 

[jambo1961]

He thought it was fine to put kids on long term contracts and shite wages, basically control them from the off

 

He's the type of Wee Man that would never try his luck on those that would strike back

 

His Bro is a knobber as well

 

[Tommy Brown]

20 hours ago, JWL said:

Probably but we still took a massive club like Athletico Madrid all the way in 1993. Not sure where I;m going but even after the inception of the CL and the Premiership in England, there must have been a point where everything just went nuclear and the Messi's and Ronaldo's seemed to appear.

 

You would definitely say the creation of the CL. This all came about because AC were drawn against Barcelona in an early round. Barca threw the toys out the pram.

This is all from memory, could be pure shite.

But the emergence of SKY, who took a big gamble in wanting football fans to finance their business model. CL and the EPL emerged. 

The top clubs have hoovered up all the cash, year on year. so you now reach a stage where the new teams must come about via a filthy rich investor.

 

Top end football nowadays, just makes me puke.

 

[JWL]

9 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

You would definitely say the creation of the CL. This all came about because AC were drawn against Barcelona in an early round. Barca threw the toys out the pram.

This is all from memory, could be pure shite.

But the emergence of SKY, who took a big gamble in wanting football fans to finance their business model. CL and the EPL emerged. 

The top clubs have hoovered up all the cash, year on year. so you now reach a stage where the new teams must come about via a filthy rich investor.

 

Top end football nowadays, just makes me puke.

 

 

I agree but was more thinking that there must have been one particular year when it all went the way of the 'elite'; probably after 1994 when Ajax won it, after then it's pretty much the usual suspects. 

 

I can't bear to watch CL football these days, even the premiership unless it's on in the pub.

[Zico]

21 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

You would definitely say the creation of the CL. This all came about because AC were drawn against Barcelona in an early round. Barca threw the toys out the pram.

This is all from memory, could be pure shite.

But the emergence of SKY, who took a big gamble in wanting football fans to finance their business model. CL and the EPL emerged. 

The top clubs have hoovered up all the cash, year on year. so you now reach a stage where the new teams must come about via a filthy rich investor.

 

Top end football nowadays, just makes me puke.

 

It was Napoli and Real Madrid in the first round in 1987 that was allegedly the driver (with Berlusconi at the wheel), followed by Milan and Real Madrid in the 2nd round in 1990.

 

Bosman was probably the biggest factor in creating the current shit show but it was when the UEFA allowed 2nd place teams to enter Champions League in 1997 that ruined both the premier club tournament in world football and the game as a whole. 

[John Findlay]

I would say that both the late Sir Alfred Ramsey and the late Sir Bobby Robson did great jobs with unfashionable club Ipswich. Ramsey winning the top division with  them and Robson the FA Cup and UEFA Cup.

 

Clough was an excellent man manager as was the Shankly, Busby, Stein and Fergusons' of this world.

[Judge Fudge]

The thing I find most annoying about the way it's went, is that past winners of the old European Cup are being judged on who they beat to get to the final. They all beat teams from Europe that where the best in their league. Winning teams are always harder to beat. The Epl are great at this with stats that only apply since the premiership started. It's creeped in up here as well. The top league is always the top league. The champs league now is just a whore with a nasty std.

[upgotheheads]

On 3/23/2018 at 10:43, Mikey1874 said:

Him and Jim McLean were the best managers of that era

 

Taking unfashionable clubs to heights 

 

But Clough was a genius 

 

Absolutely the case. Both men were geniuses, albeit flawed as many are.

[Tommy Brown]

10 minutes ago, Zico said:

It was Napoli and Real Madrid in the first round in 1987 that was allegedly the driver (with Berlusconi at the wheel), followed by Milan and Real Madrid in the 2nd round in 1990.

 

Bosman was probably the biggest factor in creating the current shit show but it was when the UEFA allowed 2nd place teams to enter Champions League in 1997 that ruined both the premier club tournament in world football and the game as a whole. 

cheers Zico,

AC were an awesome team in that era. I remembered it being one of the two Spanish outfits getting drawn against them.

 

Major fact is the CL replacing the old European Cup (League winners only) is the root cause.

 

[upgotheheads]

On 3/23/2018 at 10:43, Mikey1874 said:

Him and Jim McLean were the best managers of that era

 

Taking unfashionable clubs to heights 

 

But Clough was a genius 

 

Absolutely the case. Both men were geniuses, albeit flawed as many are.

[upgotheheads]

On 3/23/2018 at 10:43, Mikey1874 said:

Him and Jim McLean were the best managers of that era

 

Taking unfashionable clubs to heights 

 

But Clough was a genius 

 

Absolutely the case. Both men were geniuses, albeit flawed as many are.

[Tommy Brown]

One thing I have liked wee McLean for, turning down Rangers when they came calling (as did SAF, too)

 

Different days, really shouted on DU and Aberdeen when in Europe, likewise all the English sides.

 

Nowadays, i have no feelings towards clubs. other than Leicester's phenomenal season.

 

Loved Cloughie, love reading about him.

Sort of glad that I never met him. he would be either an obnoxious bar steward or an absolute gent when approached.

 

[Elmore]

1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said:

 

You would definitely say the creation of the CL. This all came about because AC were drawn against Barcelona in an early round. Barca threw the toys out the pram.

This is all from memory, could be pure shite.

But the emergence of SKY, who took a big gamble in wanting football fans to finance their business model. CL and the EPL emerged. 

The top clubs have hoovered up all the cash, year on year. so you now reach a stage where the new teams must come about via a filthy rich investor.

 

Top end football nowadays, just makes me puke.

 

I might be wrong but I heard that the CL was formed due to a German company sponsoring Bayern for the European cup and them feeling ripped off after they went out in the first round.  

[Elmore]

52 minutes ago, Zico said:

It was Napoli and Real Madrid in the first round in 1987 that was allegedly the driver (with Berlusconi at the wheel), followed by Milan and Real Madrid in the 2nd round in 1990.

 

Bosman was probably the biggest factor in creating the current shit show but it was when the UEFA allowed 2nd place teams to enter Champions League in 1997 that ruined both the premier club tournament in world football and the game as a whole. 

Seeding hasn't helped either. 

[benny]

9 hours ago, John Findlay said:

I would say that both the late Sir Alfred Ramsey and the late Sir Bobby Robson did great jobs with unfashionable club Ipswich. Ramsey winning the top division with  them and Robson the FA Cup and UEFA Cup.

 

Clough was an excellent man manager as was the Shankly, Busby, Stein and Fergusons' of this world.

Did Sir Alf not win the old 2nd division and 1st division back to back.

Then the world cup.

Amazing achievement.

[Seymour M Hersh]

On 23/03/2018 at 13:40, benny said:

He wasn't very good without Peter Taylor.

 

Agreed he was never as effective without Taylor. 

[N Lincs Jambo]

14 hours ago, Zico said:

It was Napoli and Real Madrid in the first round in 1987 that was allegedly the driver (with Berlusconi at the wheel), followed by Milan and Real Madrid in the 2nd round in 1990.

 

Bosman was probably the biggest factor in creating the current shit show but it was when the UEFA allowed 2nd place teams to enter Champions League in 1997 that ruined both the premier club tournament in world football and the game as a whole. 

 

Correct season but it was Real Madrid v Juventus in the 2nd round. Discussions allegedly took place after that game which led to the threat of a break-away by the so-called top teams and 5 years later the Champions League came into being. For those of us old enough to remember how good European football was back in those days the result is utterly sickening.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986–87_European_Cup

[Zico]

7 minutes ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

 

Correct season but it was Real Madrid v Juventus in the 2nd round. Discussions allegedly took place after that game which led to the threat of a break-away by the so-called top teams and 5 years later the Champions League came into being. For those of us old enough to remember how good European football was back in those days the result is utterly sickening.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986–87_European_Cup

It was the following season. Story on it here https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/champions-league-real-madrid-vs-napoli-1987-silvio-berlusconi-a7577996.html%3famp

[Mikey1874]

14 hours ago, Judge Fudge said:

The thing I find most annoying about the way it's went, is that past winners of the old European Cup are being judged on who they beat to get to the final. They all beat teams from Europe that where the best in their league. Winning teams are always harder to beat. The Epl are great at this with stats that only apply since the premiership started. It's creeped in up here as well. The top league is always the top league. The champs league now is just a whore with a nasty std.

 

It is what it is 

 

But the opposite annoys me a bit. If the Champions League had always been in place other teams would have had the chance to build more with the income and we might have more than the likes of Juventus, Real Madrid etc still dominating. 

 

Tesms that won the odd league title but were always thete or there abouts say Porto, PSV Eindhoven even the likes of Derby County or Ipswich in England the latter who finished second a couple of times. 

 

Free competition has been replaced with money and power. 

[N Lincs Jambo]

6 minutes ago, Zico said:

It was the following season. Story on it here https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/champions-league-real-madrid-vs-napoli-1987-silvio-berlusconi-a7577996.html%3famp

 

Cheers for posting that Zico. Good read that. I don't have a link straight away to the story from the previous year but I know it involved Platini who was with Juve at the time and IIRC European player of the year. I'll see if I can dig it out. What is for sure having read the article you posted is that Italy went against Spain early doors two seasons running and the rest as they say, is history.

[Zico]

1 minute ago, N Lincs Jambo said:

 

Cheers for posting that Zico. Good read that. I don't have a link straight away to the story from the previous year but I know it involved Platini who was with Juve at the time and IIRC European player of the year. I'll see if I can dig it out. What is for sure having read the article you posted is that Italy went against Spain early doors two seasons running and the rest as they say, is history.

Yeah, it was most likely an accumulation with 1990 being the final nail in the coffin. Depressing stuff. 

[shaun.lawson]

 

[shaun.lawson]

5 hours ago, Zico said:

It was the following season. Story on it here https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/champions-league-real-madrid-vs-napoli-1987-silvio-berlusconi-a7577996.html%3famp

 

Great piece, thanks for that. I've always considered Bosman far and away the most important factor - but of course, pay TV and expansion of the Champions League have been critical too.

 

Bosman was enforced after 1995/6. That season, Nottingham Forest were England's only survivors in Europe after Christmas; Blackburn were humiliated in the CL; Raith Rovers gave Bayern Munich a scare in Europe; tiny Auxerre won the French double; Bordeaux thrashed Milan en route to the UEFA Cup Final; PSG (then not of new money) won the Cup Winners' Cup - one of only 2 European trophies which French clubs have ever won (and the other one was tainted by matchfixing) - and the European Cup semi-finalists were:

 

Juventus, Ajax, Panathinaikos, Nantes.

 

Bosman's impact was to suddenly transform the prospects of Europe's biggest and richest clubs, but kill, at a stroke, 'selling clubs' like Ajax. It's now impossible for former European Cup winners like them, Benfica or Celtic to even contend, let alone win it again. Porto 2004 were the only CL winners since 1997 not to come from England, Spain, Italy or Germany (and even Germany only has one club who are constant CL contenders).

 

CL expansion in 1999/2000 was simply the final step: destroying domestic Cup competitions and massively devaluing the UEFA Cup/Europa League, hitherto a fantastic tournament with real depth. But we can't turn back the clock. Football is a global business - and businessmen need at least some guarantee of return on their enormous investments. Many cite the North American sporting model as an example European football should follow.. but that only works because owners there face no financial risk whatever, and rake in ridiculous amounts. 

 

Bottom line? The biggest European clubs and top players have all the power now - and if UEFA ever try to reassert themselves, the clubs will simply break away and take full control of the sport. 

 

PS. And no, I still haven't learnt what 'brevity' is. 

[Carl Fredrickson]

26 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Great piece, thanks for that. I've always considered Bosman far and away the most important factor - but of course, pay TV and expansion of the Champions League have been critical too.

 

Bosman was enforced after 1995/6. That season, Nottingham Forest were England's only survivors in Europe after Christmas; Blackburn were humiliated in the CL; Raith Rovers gave Bayern Munich a scare in Europe; tiny Auxerre won the French double; Bordeaux thrashed Milan en route to the UEFA Cup Final; PSG (then not of new money) won the Cup Winners' Cup - one of only 2 European trophies which French clubs have ever won (and the other one was tainted by matchfixing) - and the European Cup semi-finalists were:

 

Juventus, Ajax, Panathinaikos, Nantes.

 

Bosman's impact was to suddenly transform the prospects of Europe's biggest and richest clubs, but kill, at a stroke, 'selling clubs' like Ajax. It's now impossible for former European Cup winners like them, Benfica or Celtic to even contend, let alone win it again. Porto 2004 were the only CL winners since 1997 not to come from England, Spain, Italy or Germany (and even Germany only has one club who are constant CL contenders).

 

CL expansion in 1999/2000 was simply the final step: destroying domestic Cup competitions and massively devaluing the UEFA Cup/Europa League, hitherto a fantastic tournament with real depth. But we can't turn back the clock. Football is a global business - and businessmen need at least some guarantee of return on their enormous investments. Many cite the North American sporting model as an example European football should follow.. but that only works because owners there face no financial risk whatever, and rake in ridiculous amounts. 

 

Bottom line? The biggest European clubs and top players have all the power now - and if UEFA ever try to reassert themselves, the clubs will simply break away and take full control of the sport. 

 

PS. And no, I still haven't learnt what 'brevity' is. 

 

Just read the post without checking who wrote it. Thought someone was imitating Shaun Lawson but lo and behold the man himself has returned. 

 

Welcome back!

[Tommy Brown]

52 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Great piece, thanks for that. I've always considered Bosman far and away the most important factor - but of course, pay TV and expansion of the Champions League have been critical too.

 

Bosman was enforced after 1995/6. That season, Nottingham Forest were England's only survivors in Europe after Christmas; Blackburn were humiliated in the CL; Raith Rovers gave Bayern Munich a scare in Europe; tiny Auxerre won the French double; Bordeaux thrashed Milan en route to the UEFA Cup Final; PSG (then not of new money) won the Cup Winners' Cup - one of only 2 European trophies which French clubs have ever won (and the other one was tainted by matchfixing) - and the European Cup semi-finalists were:

 

Juventus, Ajax, Panathinaikos, Nantes.

 

Bosman's impact was to suddenly transform the prospects of Europe's biggest and richest clubs, but kill, at a stroke, 'selling clubs' like Ajax. It's now impossible for former European Cup winners like them, Benfica or Celtic to even contend, let alone win it again. Porto 2004 were the only CL winners since 1997 not to come from England, Spain, Italy or Germany (and even Germany only has one club who are constant CL contenders).

 

CL expansion in 1999/2000 was simply the final step: destroying domestic Cup competitions and massively devaluing the UEFA Cup/Europa League, hitherto a fantastic tournament with real depth. But we can't turn back the clock. Football is a global business - and businessmen need at least some guarantee of return on their enormous investments. Many cite the North American sporting model as an example European football should follow.. but that only works because owners there face no financial risk whatever, and rake in ridiculous amounts. 

 

Bottom line? The biggest European clubs and top players have all the power now - and if UEFA ever try to reassert themselves, the clubs will simply break away and take full control of the sport. 

 

PS. And no, I still haven't learnt what 'brevity' is. 

 

Good to have you back on, Shaun

[glynnlondon]

Bit off topic but I like this old newspaper cutting of the fa cup TV build up.

 

[Pasquale for King]

Two best stories I’ve heard about Clough was from Roy Keane and Martin O’Neil. Not long after Keane signed for Forest he passed the ball back to the goalie and they lost a goal, Clough walked up and chinned him in the dressing room “don’t ever let me see you do that again son “ and walked off.

O’Neil learnt a lot from Clough about management and although he signed him and played him they argued constantly, O’Neil being more intelligent than your normal player always questioned things. O’Neil clearly idolised him and didnt even seem to resent the fact Clough dropped him for one of the EC finals. O’Neil describes their opinions as “I thought I was a really good player . . . . . and he didn’t” ?.