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Poisoned Russian spy.


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12 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Same here.  Why not just shoot him?

the Russians wanted to send a message out to other supposed traitors and put their fingerprints all over this.  It lets others know that they are not frightened to bump people off no matter where they are. 

Edited by Deevers
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18 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

Even after Litvenyenko or whatever he was called?

Hear what youre saying & maybe its me but I just think things can be easily made to look similar in order to point fingers in a certain direction. 

The Russians are either really dumb & they did it or it was made to look like it was them. 

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Ibrahim Tall
1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

Hear what youre saying & maybe its me but I just think things can be easily made to look similar in order to point fingers in a certain direction. 

The Russians are either really dumb & they did it or it was made to look like it was them. 

 

Or they simply don’t care.

As they didn’t care when they invaded Georgia.. or Crimea.. or the Ukraine. Or when they shot down a passenger plane and continue to deny it despite plenty of proof. Or when they continue along with their Syrian allies to target civilians with cluster bombs and chemical weapons.

Or when they murdered another foreign dissident with radioactive material on British streets and the decided to make the assassin a member of Parliament .

Putin only respects strength and years of weak pandering Western leaders who have done little more than said ‘please don’t do that’ have given him nothing to respect.

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12 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Hear what youre saying & maybe its me but I just think things can be easily made to look similar in order to point fingers in a certain direction. 

The Russians are either really dumb & they did it or it was made to look like it was them. 

You have to understand the mindset of those in power in the Kremlin. They don't really care about foreign opinion. They only really want to be seen as tough hard men. They crave "respect" but have fear and respect mixed up.  They do outrageous things and then present a wall of total denial. Look what happened with the downing of the Malaysian Airliner. 

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The UK would absolutely not have pinned this on Russia based on physical evidence alone.     It would not trigger what will be a long and deep rooted diplomatic cold war based on physical evidence.     Have absolutely no doubt that there will be compelling intelligence to accompany what has been made public.      It's Russia 100%.

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19 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

 

Or they simply don’t care.

As they didn’t care when they invaded Georgia.. or Crimea.. or the Ukraine. Or when they shot down a passenger plane and continue to deny it despite plenty of proof. Or when they continue along with their Syrian allies to target civilians with cluster bombs and chemical weapons.

Or when they murdered another foreign dissident with radioactive material on British streets and the decided to make the assassin a member of Parliament .

Putin only respects strength and years of weak pandering Western leaders who have done little more than said ‘please don’t do that’ have given him nothing to respect.

 

16 minutes ago, Deevers said:

You have to understand the mindset of those in power in the Kremlin. They don't really care about foreign opinion. They only really want to be seen as tough hard men. They crave "respect" but have fear and respect mixed up.  They do outrageous things and then present a wall of total denial. Look what happened with the downing of the Malaysian Airliner. 

Not disagreeing lads. As I said earlier in the thread. It just seems too clean to me. The link I posted earlier suggests that the UK cant test the chemical to fingerprint who made it or where it came from. 

I just think its the usual. Told half a story and kept in the dark as to the real reasons surrounding this. 

 

Of course, it could be that Putin is a complete bampot. 

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Thunderstruck
1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

 

Not disagreeing lads. As I said earlier in the thread. It just seems too clean to me. The link I posted earlier suggests that the UK cant test the chemical to fingerprint who made it or where it came from. 

I just think its the usual. Told half a story and kept in the dark as to the real reasons surrounding this. 

 

Of course, it could be that Putin is a complete bampot. 

 

We we already know of Vil Mirzayanov who worked on the weapon and who then defected to the US. 

 

The information would then then make its way around the Allies so that detection and countermeasures could be looked at. 

 

Russia’s only excuse is, therefore, “a big boy done it and ran away”. In other words, they sold some to a 3rd Party such as Syria or Iraq and it then got into the wrong hands (not that Syria or Iraq are the “right hands”). 

 

Even so, how would anyone other than Russia or the UK Security Services know who the victims were or where to find them. If it had fallen into the hands of some Terrorist group, why would they waste it on exactly these two people in a restaurant instead of copying Arum Shinriko and hitting a subway train. 

 

 

 

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
1 hour ago, Victorian said:

The UK would absolutely not have pinned this on Russia based on physical evidence alone.     It would not trigger what will be a long and deep rooted diplomatic cold war based on physical evidence.     Have absolutely no doubt that there will be compelling intelligence to accompany what has been made public.      It's Russia 100%.

 

Exactly.

Some folks are saying it makes no sense for the Russians to have done this, equally it makes no sense for the UK to falsely blame the Russians for it, knowing full well that it would cause a diplomatic shit-storm which will probably last for years and have long lasting and potentially dire repercussions.  Why would the UK put itself firmly in the Russian cross-hairs if it had no proof that it was the Russians.

No, the UK has to be confident that it was indeed the Russians who did this, for us to accept the inevitable diplomatic shit-storm and potential danger which will follow.

   

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Governor Tarkin
On 3/7/2018 at 22:51, Seymour M Hersh said:

No sign of our favourite Commie?:interehjrling::nuke:::troll::

 

Putin's not a commie.

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If the UK government told me it was raining outside I would check. I dont beleive a word of this on face value. Theres a much bigger picture here. It will all come out in the wash. 

WMD’s all over again perhaps. 

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Jambo-Jimbo
1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

If the UK government told me it was raining outside I would check. I dont beleive a word of this on face value. Theres a much bigger picture here. It will all come out in the wash. 

WMD’s all over again perhaps. 

 

Would you trust what the Kremlin says?

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Jambo-Jimbo
Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Nope

 

Well that causes a bit of a problem then.

 

You see if you don't believe what the UK is saying and equally you don't believe the Russians, then who did it?  Who's telling the truth and who is lying?  Are both lying?  And if so why?

 

You see the problem?

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9 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

If the UK government told me it was raining outside I would check. I dont beleive a word of this on face value. Theres a much bigger picture here. It will all come out in the wash. 

WMD’s all over again perhaps. 

It's for that premise that this IS kosher.    The days of a UK government misusing the intelligence and security services are gone.    That ship sailed with Tony Blair at the tiller.     

 

Certain things go beyond government manipulation of information and events.     Diplomatic / security matters with Russia is one.      

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A few months ago it was the North Koreans and Americans, now its Russia and Great Britain, this feels more serious. I'm not sure where it'll end up. 

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3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

A few months ago it was the North Koreans and Americans, now its Russia and Great Britain, this feels more serious. I'm not sure where it'll end up. 

 

Bargain property prices in Salisbury?

 

::troll::

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The Real Maroonblood
3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

A few months ago it was the North Koreans and Americans, now its Russia and Great Britain, this feels more serious. I'm not sure where it'll end up. 

The end is nigh.

We are doomed.

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Jambo-Jimbo
1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

Bargain property prices in Salisbury?

 

::troll::

 

And you ain't joking.

 

The Restaurant and the Pub are finished, their business will never recover, especially if it's true that this nerve agent can remain active for months or years.

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Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

And you ain't joking.

 

The Restaurant and the Pub are finished, their business will never recover, especially if it's true that this nerve agent can remain active for months or years.

 

Perception could well be quite damaging.    Even after an 'all clear'.      I wouldn't even be surprised if footfall fell at other Zizzi outlets in other areas.    :D

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25 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Well that causes a bit of a problem then.

 

You see if you don't believe what the UK is saying and equally you don't believe the Russians, then who did it?  Who's telling the truth and who is lying?  Are both lying?  And if so why?

 

You see the problem?

No. I dont. If Russia didnt do it then they wont be lying if they say as much. 

 

It probably was Russia but if the UK has conclusive proof then lets have it. What would be the point in hiding it? 

Im not accepting it ‘just cause’ May says so. 

 

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1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

No. I dont. If Russia didnt do it then they wont be lying if they say as much. 

 

It probably was Russia but if the UK has conclusive proof then lets have it. What would be the point in hiding it? 

Im not accepting it ‘just cause’ May says so. 

 

Well they're hardly likely to reveal intelligence and intelligence sources/methods.     The physical evidence will be submitted to OPCW in The Netherlands.     

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Just now, Victorian said:

Well they're hardly likely to reveal intelligence and intelligence sources/methods.     The physical evidence will be submitted to OPCW in The Netherlands.     

Thought I read that a sample had not been sent to the OPCW. 

 

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33 minutes ago, Victorian said:

It's for that premise that this IS kosher.    The days of a UK government misusing the intelligence and security services are gone.    That ship sailed with Tony Blair at the tiller.     

 

Certain things go beyond government manipulation of information and events.     Diplomatic / security matters with Russia is one.      

Do you beleive that the Govt doesnt mislead the public?

£350m more for the NHS anyone?

’post truth’ is the new buzzword. 

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1 minute ago, Victorian said:

It will be.     

Perhaps but if its not then how can the evidence have been verified already?

its already unraveling. 

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Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Do you beleive that the Govt doesnt mislead the public?

£350m more for the NHS anyone?

’post truth’ is the new buzzword. 

A Brexit campaign and security issues with Russia are not exactly comparible.    :D

 

National security regarding Russia is of the most serious type.     Government manipulation of the intelligence services is toxic.     There's no way they're at it on this.

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2 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Perhaps but if its not then how can the evidence have been verified already?

its already unraveling. 

 

Unravelling.  :rofl:

 

 

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Just now, Victorian said:

A Brexit campaign and security issues with Russia are not exactly comparible.    :D

 

National security regarding Russia is of the most serious type.     Government manipulation of the intelligence services is toxic.     There's no way they're at it on this.

Im not on Russia’s side here. If it’s proven without doubt that they were responsible then they deserve all they get. 

Right now, I’m just not buying it. 

Would not surprise me in the slightest if this has something to do with Syria in some way. 

 

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Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Im not on Russia’s side here. If it’s proven without doubt that they were responsible then they deserve all they get. 

Right now, I’m just not buying it. 

Would not surprise me in the slightest if this has something to do with Syria in some way. 

 

Ok.    

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3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Unravelling.  :rofl:

 

 

Its a valid point though. No evidence has been sent. Why?

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Governor Tarkin
3 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Not who I meant. 

 

Yeh, but that's what Boris will tell you.

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Seymour M Hersh
3 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Telling you theres a story behind this story that involves someone getting minted by telling the Ruskies to FO. Someone somewhere always gets the dough. Why would the Russians not just wait till that man got home then put a bullit in the back of his head? Or ran him over? Or got a couple of ex-KGB meatheads to beat him to death?

 

A chemical weapon? Doesnt add up to me. 

 

This sort of thing is their MO! Radio active poison in tea. A radio active ball bearing inserted by the tip of a brolly. Now a nerve agent. For me it's in keeping with their rather extravagant methods.

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1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

Its a valid point though. No evidence has been sent. Why?

Information released into public domain and actual events are not necessarily identical.     These are serious event... not a reality TV show.

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indianajones

Assassin: 'Ok Mr. Putin, how should we take out this rat commander living in the UK? Car accident, knifed at night during a robbery, strangled in his sleep?'

 

Putin: 'No. Use a nerve agent that can be traced back to Russia and in broad day light.'

 

 

Absolute pish by the way. If people cant see this is a false flag then the wool is well and truly too thick. 

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People so chronically thick so as to believe that the killing of Skripal was the main motive for the act.    Oh ****ing dear.   

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indianajones
1 minute ago, Victorian said:

People so chronically thick so as to believe that the killing of Skripal was the main motive for the act.    Oh ****ing dear.   

 

Is it a surprise that our government failed in killing him? Couldnt even do that right FFS.

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Thunderstruck

It looks like the employees working at 55 Savushkina Street, St Petersburg are on double-time tonight - some them might even be on here!

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deesidejambo
9 hours ago, Victorian said:

Information released into public domain and actual events are not necessarily identical.     These are serious event... not a reality TV show.

I get the feeling May has gone too quick and should at least wait until proof of Russian State involvement is visible.

 

Justice needs to be seen to be done.

 

She could easily have waited.

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5 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

I get the feeling May has gone too quick and should at least wait until proof of Russian State involvement is visible.

 

Justice needs to be seen to be done.

 

She could easily have waited.

Justice does not need to be seen to be done.    This isn't a trial of some random person where the criminal justice system needs to be demonstrated to be transparent.      It's intelligence / national security involving a major power of known disrepute.      By it's very nature it can't be transparent.     There can never be any full disclosure or running commentary.      People will have to accept that evidence and intelligence of this kind cannot be fully released.

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deesidejambo
3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Justice does not need to be seen to be done.    This isn't a trial of some random person where the criminal justice system needs to be demonstrated to be transparent.      It's intelligence / national security involving a major power of known disrepute.      By it's very nature it can't be transparent.     There can never be any full disclosure or running commentary.      People will have to accept that evidence and intelligence of this kind cannot be fully released.

Eek well I don’t.  I expect it will come out anyway but I see no reason why May  acted so quickly.

 

She could have waited until after the Police investigation for a start?

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Captain Sausage

So in essence, we are doing **** all. 

 

A lot of my shares are tied to performance of the Russian economy so it will hit me hard in the pocket, but we should be freezing Russian assets in the UK, putting on heavy economic and trade sanctions and pushing hard to get the US and EU to follow suit. 

 

Dispelling 23 diplomats is basically a wee spank and a ‘don’t do it again’ again. 

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deesidejambo
1 minute ago, houstonjambo said:

So in essence, we are doing **** all. 

 

A lot of my shares are tied to performance of the Russian economy so it will hit me hard in the pocket, but we should be freezing Russian assets in the UK, putting on heavy economic and trade sanctions and pushing hard to get the US and EU to follow suit. 

 

Dispelling 23 diplomats is basically a wee spank and a ‘don’t do it again’ again. 

Depends on what the nice Russians do in response!    Maybe they will retaliate big-time.

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4 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Eek well I don’t.  I expect it will come out anyway but I see no reason why May  acted so quickly.

 

She could have waited until after the Police investigation for a start?

The PM is not acting absolutely under her own steam.     In these matters the PM is completely dependent on MI5/MI6,  the military, the diplomatic corps, and specialist advisors.      

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deesidejambo
Just now, Victorian said:

The PM is not acting absolutely under her own steam.     In these matters the PM is completely dependent on MI5/MI6,  the military, the diplomatic corps, and specialist advisors.      

Agreed she takes advice and presumably shares the information with Rudd.     Ultimately it’s her call but I se no reason to rush it while investigation is clearly still ongoing.

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John Gentleman
9 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Thought I read that a sample had not been sent to the OPCW. 

 

Maybe the UK should send two identical samples to, say, Zurich and the OPCW and the Russians could collect their respective samples from there? If The UK authorities have truly nailed its source, I can't understand their reluctance to provide a sample to them. Putin, of course, will just deflect/deny it (al la the Buk missile) but if the OPCW corroborates the UK findings then we'll really see some fireworks.

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yabadabadoo1874again
10 hours ago, Victorian said:

A Brexit campaign and security issues with Russia are not exactly comparible.    :D

 

National security regarding Russia is of the most serious type.     Government manipulation of the intelligence services is toxic.     There's no way they're at it on this.

 

Lol

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